Issue In UA Cockpit 777 Diverts From HI To Midway

wjcandee · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:45 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
They let 300-odd people use the phone? Or is there cell service out there?

Sure. It's Area Code 808, just like Hawaii.

fightingdingo · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:46 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
What sorts of facilities are there on the island to shelter that many people from, say, inclement weather if an aircraft had to land and be evacuated in the middle of one?

There's lots of buildings on the island including an old officer's housing unit where people working on the island live today. The island even has a bowling alley, movie theater, store, cafeteria, and mini health clinic. There is even a school on the island but the building has been abandoned.

http://www.midway-island.com/bird-photos/buildings/housing/bqs/

wjcandee · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:52 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 46):
Tourism for whom? The govt workers or can I go there?

Thanks to the geniuses at the Fish and Wildlife Service, to whom it was turned over, you can no longer visit. It used to be an amazing destination for divers. They have set about removing most vestiges of the military history there. About 60 or so people are there at any one time, sometimes less. There is one canteen where everyone eats. They keep saying they hope they will have funding to allow visitors in the future. Uh-huh.

If you want to make a 4-month commitment as a volunteer, however, you can go there: http://www.fws.gov/refuge/Midway_Atoll/what_we_do/get_involved.html

[Edited 2014-07-11 20:55:05]

jetfuel · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:58 am

Seems to me the seriousness of this is being unrecognized

TheRedBaron · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:05 am

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 53):
Seems to me the seriousness of this is being unrecognized

I agree, I guess Boeing people will dissect the AC to see how it happened and if something like that happened a few months ago, with different and tragic results.

TRB

bchandl · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:07 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
They let 300-odd people use the phone? Or is there cell service out there?

Why not? Common courtesy.

First, that 300 figure is assuming a 100%. At 80% its more like 250-260.

Then you have to think about the fact that there were families and other groups who are traveling together who don't need to all call someone.

So say half need to make a phone call. We are now down to 130 phone calls.

A few phones and a few hours, not a big deal.

Even easier if they have cell service, I've never been there so I don't know but I kind of doubt it. If they do, that makes it even easier, until all those pax get their cell phone bills.

bchandl

[Edited 2014-07-11 21:09:18]

deltaffindfw · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:23 am

This brings up a question about emergency response. Personally, I think 5 1/2 hours is a quick response time to get another 777 out to the island. Given UAs larger presence on the west coast, could this happen for either AA or DL if a widebody had the same issue in a remote part of the pacific?

airportugal310 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:34 am

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 56):

Given the time this flight happened, I'd bet some money (but maybe not much) that one of their evening flights from HNL to the mainland op'd on a 777 suffered a cancellation or delay. Would explain the quick TAT, at least

Or alternatively, they had one here in HNL in the hangar. Possible idk

FlyDeltaJets · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:39 am

http://7online.com/travel/united-air...y-landing-on-midway-island/178417/

WABC-NY Coverage on the event.
Glad everyone is safe. Definitely one of those stories for the dinner table.

LTC8K6 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:05 am

Doesn't really sound like a cockpit fire at all, though. The smell and haze in flight were in the cabin, not the cockpit.

LTC8K6 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:16 am

http://avherald.com/h?article=4771c6a3&opt=0

This is the way actual smoke in the cockpit incidents are handled.

akelley728 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:27 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 10):
UA flew in another aircraft which landed 5 1/2 hours later.

The extra aircraft spent about an hour on the ground and returned the pax to HNL

Pretty quick dispatch and return of a replacement B777.

Quoting citationjet (Reply 36):
A replacement Boeing 777-200 registration N779UA positioned to Midway as flight UA-2068 and returned the passengers to Honolulu as flight UA-2104 delivering the passengers back to Honolulu about 14 hours after their departure from Honolulu.

I'm curious as to why they returned the passengers to HNL? Why not take them to GUM which was their final destination? I am sure there were passengers at GUM that were supposed to have been on N210UA but their flight was cancelled, of course.

jetfuel · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:29 am

Quoting Akelley728 (Reply 61):
I'm curious as to why they returned the passengers to HNL? Why not take them to GUM which was their final destination? I am sure there were passengers at GUM that were supposed to have been on N210UA but their flight was cancelled, of course.

1. Fuel not available
2. Crew issues

iahcsr · Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:10 am

To answer reply 57 .. Flt 200/201 HNL IAH HNL canceled

Okie · Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting Akelley728 (Reply 61):
I'm curious as to why they returned the passengers to HNL? Why not take them to GUM which was their final destination?

I think the clue is back at OP
They did not have a way to unload the luggage.
No mention has been made of the method of which or time frame when that happened or the plane repaired and returned to HNL with the luggage.

Okie

85027 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:45 am

I landed there with one of our KC-135's (which requires at least 7,000 feet to land) and it is a GORGEOUS island...while small yes, many types of aircraft have been through there and a 777 would fit JUST FINE, as they said a 744 was there earlier.

135Mech

Max Q · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:33 am

Outstanding job, everyone safe, real Pilots at work.

barney captain · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:55 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 66):
Outstanding job, everyone safe, real Pilots at work.

Is this where someone chimes in about pilotless aircraft?

Max Q · Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:04 am

Quoting barney captain (Reply 67):
Is this where someone chimes in about pilotless aircraft?

I wouldn't be surprised

RickNRoll · Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:22 am

Quoting okie (Reply 64):
No mention has been made of the method of which or time frame when that happened or the plane repaired and returned to HNL with the luggage.

Has it returned?

Aeri28 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:25 am

I remember seeing this on the news here with the Delta situation. They didn't have stairs tall enough to reach the 747, so they had to quickly build some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcI-pMC1ALA

RickNRoll · Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:38 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 68):
I wouldn't be surprised

Perhaps a pilotless aircraft would have refused to take off till the original problem was fixed properly.

vegas005 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:43 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Just talked to a passenger (fellow UA million miler). He is on the ground waiting for his replacement flight.

How did you talk to him? Midway is a rock in the middle of a lot of water. It's barely large enough for the runways it has. There are some researchers and a whole bunch of birds there. Have they been stuck out there for five days?

How to call a Midway Islander mobile phone from United States.

like you do anywhere else....

Dial the following international mobile code:

011 + 808 + Mobile Code** + The Number

How to make your international call How to call a Midway Islands mobile phone:
011 - United States exit code to dial first when calling international
808 - Midway Islands country code must be dialed next
Mobile Code** - Midway Islands mobile code must be dialed next
011 + 808 + Mobile Code** + Local Number - Overall dialing format

MIflyer12 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:16 pm

Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 56):
Given UAs larger presence on the west coast, could this happen for either AA or DL if a widebody had the same issue in a remote part of the pacific?

You may be trying to create differentiation where no meaningful differences exist. DL has MDY-range capable widebodies departing SEA, LAX, NRT, HNL (and even PDX) every day. One would need to investigate this at a pretty granular level: availability of suitable aircraft, parts and crew relative to scheduled needs and historical operational reliability.

Luftfahrer · Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:53 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 5):
Just reading the subject line, I thought it had diverted to MDW

That's what I thought as well, and it made things appear all the more dramatic, given how they couldn't have even made it to ORD.

Glad everyone is safe.

rfields5421 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:22 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 73):
Quoting deltaffindfw (Reply 56):Given UAs larger presence on the west coast, could this happen for either AA or DL if a widebody had the same issue in a remote part of the pacific?
You may be trying to create differentiation where no meaningful differences exist. DL has MDY-range capable widebodies departing SEA, LAX, NRT, HNL (and even PDX) every day. One would need to investigate this at a pretty granular level: availability of suitable aircraft, parts and crew relative to scheduled needs and historical operational reliability.

Another possibility would be to send a chartered aircraft from another airline to pick up the stranded passengers. Yes, the airlines are competitors, but they do help each other out during major problems. They all know they may need such help from the other someday in the future.

It appears that UA cancelled a rotation from HNL-IAH-HNL to send the relief aircraft. Other airlines could do that.

strfyr51 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 2):
Seriously? There's enough demand between GUM and HNL for a 777? What happened to Air Mike and the 737's?

the 25XX 777A's fly mainland to Hawaii HNL-HUM and GUM-NRT and return. That's already been discussed here.

strfyr51 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
777 landing @ MDW? That would have been a sight !!

Not really, When MDW was still a Naval Air Station there used to be C141's and C5a's in an out of there as part of their Navigation training
Bringing in supplies and construction material for housing. and facilities. MDW is also a Communications Station I think now owned by NOAA.
We did a LOT of scuba diving and surfing while we were there.

RetiredWeasel · Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:49 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
A Guam Bound flight from HNL was diverted to Midway after fire was detected in the cockpit.

My foggy memory of the early 90's whilst flying NW 747-200s from HNL to NRT recalls the decision for the navy to pull out of Midway around 1993. The plan was for the government to let the weeds and birds take over the airfield and provide no support or airfield capability whatsoever. The airlines (the sensible ones to include NW) screamed bloody murder as it was the only emergency airfield available on the HNL-NRT route and lobbied to keep it open. Also 2 engine widebodies were coming on line and I think this airfield was a major cog in the ETOPS equation on that route. The lobbying worked and the airfield remained serviceable.

JAAlbert · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:29 pm

So what's next for the 777? I imagine a crew of mechanics head out to find the source of the fumes and decide weather repairs must be made on site or whether they can stabilize the situation and fly it back to HNL?

How does a crew go about finding the source of the haze?

Could the smoke/fumes have been from an engine that got sucked into the cabin with the bleed air system?

7BOEING7 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 79):
How does a crew go about finding the source of the haze?

Could the smoke/fumes have been from an engine that got sucked into the cabin with the bleed air system?

It could be any numbers of things but if it is true that various electronic components were going off line that should narrow it down quite a bit.

strfyr51 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting RetiredWeasel (Reply 78):
My foggy memory of the early 90's whilst flying NW 747-200s from HNL to NRT recalls the decision for the navy to pull out of Midway around 1993. The plan was for the government to let the weeds and birds take over the airfield and provide no support or airfield capability whatsoever. The airlines (the sensible ones to include NW) screamed bloody murder as it was the only emergency airfield available on the HNL-NRT route and lobbied to keep it open. Also 2 engine widebodies were coming on line and I think this airfield was a major cog in the ETOPS equation on that route. The lobbying worked and the airfield remained serviceable.

Your memory isn't THAT foggy! MDY is a 180 ETOPS diversion station in the Pacific some of the others are Kwajalein
Yap, and Nadi in the Figi Islands . There are more in the Marshall and Johnson island groups.
I flew to a bunch of them While flying P3 Orions in the Pacific while in the Navy.

flylku · Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:15 pm

If they did indeed lose radios I wonder if it was a Wi-Fi equiped aircraft? If that was and still working and assuming they did not shut off that electrical bus they could get emails out concerning their situation. The question is, would the recipient believe it?

CALTECH · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 11):
Anyone know what caused the smoke and apparent instrument failure?

Yes. Sometimes Equipment Cooling Fans when they go, can cause symptoms like these. Clogged Equipment Cooling Fan Filters also can cause these symptoms. No instrument failure. Some equipment does shut down when it starts to overheat.

Quoting citationjet (Reply 36):
There is a report on the Internet telling that the aircraft lost transponder, radios and other systems one by one, however, radar data indicate the transponder worked until touchdown.

Internet report incorrect.

PW100 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:46 pm

Does Midway have a fuel depot (jet A)? Or did the 777 that recovered the pax had tinkered sufficient fuel so that it did not have to take on any fuel at the island?

Thanks,
PW100

FlyDeltaJets · Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 69):
Has it returned?

2510 is still there

DTWPurserBoy · Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:09 pm

Midway is frequented by many aircraft that use Jet A--it has ample supplies. Besides--it can't be tankered in--how would they transfer it? Sucking on a garden hose?

If she was fueled for an 8 hour flight to GUM plus reserves they had ample fuel onboard remaining to return to HNL.

747megatop · Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 20):
If true, how on earth did this avoid the MSM always-breaking news cycle?

Finally made it - http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/12/travel...-777-diverted/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

boacvc10 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:58 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively.

I assume no incident report has been published just yet, but if it has been, could someone please point to the link. That said, when I read this sentence and noticed it was a 777 type aircraft, I somehow began thinking a wild, uneducated thought: Could such a type of severe mid-flight problem (e.g., flying bind and cockpit gear going out one by one have potentially happened to the MH-370 777 aircraft

HAWAIIAN932 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:03 pm

Back in the late 90's I flew from LAX-HNL-GUM on CO. The HNL-GUM sector was operated with a 742 and the GUM-HNL return sector was with a DC-10. Both flights were daily and completely full in both directions. Two of the longest take-offs I've ever experienced.

Also a few years back a CO 772 flying nonstop NRT-IAH made an emergency landing on Midway. I think they were actually there for overnight. Many passengers were actually enjoying the diversion as they were offered tours of the island etc.

JAAlbert · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting HAWAIIAN932 (Reply 89):
Also a few years back a CO 772 flying nonstop NRT-IAH made an emergency landing on Midway. I think they were actually there for overnight. Many passengers were actually enjoying the diversion as they were offered tours of the island etc.

I guess it being a tiny coral atoll in the middle of nowhere, that Customs/Border control didn't have an issue with letting foreigners off the plane?

LovesCoffee · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 87):
Finally made it - http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/12/travel...-777-diverted/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Instrumentation was lost including:

Radar
Radio Comms

Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively.

The quote in the story actually says "When asked whether the disturbing smell was smoke or something burning, she described the incident as an odor in the cabin." where she is the UAL spokesperson. Where does the "Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively" come from? Let's not be too quick to associate this with MH370.

[Edited 2014-07-12 13:39:22]

washingtonflyer · Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:51 pm

Wasn't there a divert to Wake or Johnston just a month or so ago?

wjcandee · Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting LovesCoffee (Reply 91):
Where does the "Flying blind and cockpit gear going out one by one progressively"

One of the passengers quoted in an article said that the captain told her that the "radar detector" had gone out just before they landed. I assume that means the transponder.

wjcandee · Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 72):
How to call a Midway Islander mobile phone from United States.

like you do anywhere else....

Dial the following international mobile code:

011 + 808 + Mobile Code** + The Number

That web site is actually wrong. From the US, it's just like any other domestic long distance call. Area code 808. Just like to Hawaii.

7BOEING7 · Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 93):
One of the passengers quoted in an article said that the captain told her that the "radar detector" had gone out just before they landed. I assume that means the transponder.

Anybody know any airline pilots with English as a first language that use the term "radar detector"??? An FA maybe, but a Captain???

Amwest2United · Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 86):
Midway is frequented by many aircraft that use Jet A--it has ample supplies. Besides--it can't be tankered in--how would they transfer it? Sucking on a garden hose?

Um, tankered is the aircraft having enough fuel inbound to fly the next leg out without the need to refuel, or to carry additional fuel into a station that supply may be short or the cost is much higher than the cost of carrying the extra weight of the additional fuel.

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 85):
If she was fueled for an 8 hour flight to GUM plus reserves they had ample fuel onboard remaining to return to HNL.

the GUM aircraft should have enough fuel to fly back to HNL, it is scheduled to fly out tonight/tomorrow.

D L X · Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:24 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 87):
Finally made it - http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/12/travel...-777-diverted/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Headline: "I'm about to die"

What kind of bs is that?

At least we have a source identified: the tweets of a child. Got it. This is indefensible, CNN.

Here's the twitter account CNN is sourcing:

https://twitter.com/iAmProdiJay

wjcandee · Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 95):
Anybody know any airline pilots with English as a first language that use the term "radar detector"??? An FA maybe, but a Captain???

Obviously, that was the passenger's interpretation of what she was told.

jpetekyxmd80 · Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:10 am

@iAmProdiJay is a pretty sick handle, i admit

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