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mham001
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:04 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 130):
The A339 is also more expensive than the 789 despite Airbus saying it will be cheaper. I wonder if someone made a typo in the list pri
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 132):
No, the A359's list price is 288 million vs 275 million for the A339.

This is the most surprising news about it all. Stunning really, given all the expert opinions here on how cheap it would be.

A number of analysts have studied the discount rates and found them to to be generally just about the same between the two manufacturers.
 
grantcv
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:16 pm

So now that Airbus is building their original concept for the A350 from 2004 -- and the one the airline's nixed back in 2006, wouldn't it perhaps have been better if Airbus had designed the A350 to be a pure B777 competitor. Now they've got two aircraft bunched together in the lower part of the market, a huge gap, and one too big plane at the top. And there is no way they can afford to plug the gap.
 
queb
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting grantcv (Reply 151):
And there is no way they can afford to plug the gap.

they can launch a stretched version of the A350-1000

[Edited 2014-07-14 09:24:51]
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 152):

They can always double stretch the 359 to make a 359-1100 that competes with 777-9 ... not everyone needs 8000nm range out of that plane
 
queb
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:31 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 153):
They can always double stretch the 359

or triple stretch the A350-800 ?????
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 145):
Interesting thing about history

The story gets even more interesting: the guy who basically killed the original A350 Mk I is now ordering 25 A330neo's.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 152):

I think Bregier has already scuttled the idea of an A350-1100:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/boeing...s-the-looming-strategic-questions/

So it looks like the marketplace is set. Let's see how they shake out.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting grantcv (Reply 151):
And there is no way they can afford to plug the gap.

I know people are obsessed with the idea but Airbus does not have to address every Boeing product.

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 156):
I think Bregier has already scuttled the idea of an A350-1100:

Just like he scuttled the A330neo idea some months ago?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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coronado
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:42 pm

I would not be surprised if Delta picks up another 2 to 4 A330-300 to take in the last ceo slots in 2017 so that Airbus can optimize its transition to the neo A330-800/900, basically taking delivery of them at the best schedule for Airbus purposes, and Delta calls it an opportunistic acquisition at discount pricing, and further they may get for some future pricing preference on the neo versions A330-800/900 or A350/900-1000.

Recall that when ordered Delta's press release gave the schedule for the 10 A330-300's:
The 10 A330-300 aircraft will augment Delta's existing fleet of 32 A330s. The first A330 delivery is scheduled for spring of 2015, with three additional airplanes scheduled for that year, four in 2016, and the final two in 2017.

Interesting that Airbus in their presentation is claiming 95% parts commonality between the current generation A330's and the new engine versions. So I guess as long as Delta has confidence in RR engines (a given) it is not much of a jump for Delta to feel comfortable with A330-800/900's to satisfy their RFP requirements.

[Edited 2014-07-14 10:35:22]
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queb
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 156):
I think Bregier has already scuttled the idea of an A350-1100

he said the same thing about the A330neo a couple of weeks ago, so...
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:46 pm

Quoting queb (Reply 159):

Quite true. I guess anything is possible if Leahy convinces him of it...
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting neutronstar73 (Reply 148):
Given they also thought that, demand-wise, they'd have over 1700 VLAs sold by 2030 or some such date (A380 and 747-8i), I'm a bit skeptical.....

If you look at Boeing's own market forecast you'll notice there should be enough demand for both 787 and A330 jets in the 250-300 seat segment.
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metalinyoni
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:05 pm

If Airbus' claims that the A330 - 800 and -900 will match the 787 in efficiency with just new engines and a wing (amongst other things), can we assume that this whole CRFP fuselage lark has been a bit of a waste of time? Both the 787 and A350 have competition (A350 and the 777-8/9) that will match them in efficiency without the heartache of building CRFP fuselages.

Surely Boeing could have tweaked the 767 -300 and -400 and had the same efficiency gains as Airbus expects with the new A330's? I know there is a bit more to it than this i.e. they are just trying to fill gaps in their product line ups but it seems like an awfully long winded way of doing it.
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mham001
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting metalinyoni (Reply 162):
If Airbus' claims that the A330 - 800 and -900 will match the 787 in efficiency with just new engines and a wing (amongst other things), can we assume that this whole CRFP fuselage lark has been a bit of a waste of time? Both the 787 and A350 have competition (A350 and the 777-8/9) that will match them in efficiency without the heartache of building CRFP fuselages.

"Airbus claims". Key phrase that. It won't.

As for CRFP, we don't know if it isn't more efficient to build. The pricing thing is interesting.
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:12 pm

Help me out here, I want to make a rough comparison between Airbus A330 Neo and the Boeing 787-10, based on specs offered by both companies. I want your feedback and any corrections.

Boeing: 'The 787-10 will be 30% cheaper to operate than today's A330.'
Airbus: The A330 Neo will be 14% cheaper to operate than the A330 it replaces.'

So using these specs at their face value, the Boeing 787-10 will still come out 16% cheaper to operate. 16% is nothing to sneeze at ! For existing airbus customers who buy the A330 Neo to replace their previous A330s, will the savings in retraining pilots and not switching to a different aircraft line justify not benefitting from the cheaper operational costs on the Boeings, especially in the long run?

I'm basing my comparisons on these planes:
Boeing 787-10: 323 passengers, range 7,020 nautical miles.
Airubs A330-900 Neo: 310 passengers, range 6,500 nautical miles.

[Edited 2014-07-14 10:19:44]
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MSPNWA
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:19 pm

I see this as Airbus trying to right the wrong of having only one new platform in the single-deck widebody market (A350). I don't see the A338/339 as being a great idea to fix that. They still do not compete well against the 787. The 788 will continue to have no competitor. The 789 is safe against the A338. And Airbus will compete against itself with the A339 versus the A359. The list prices are simply uncompetitive too. And as a passenger, give me a new cabin like the 787 versus obsolete technology like the A330. It's time to move forward. I hope DL shies away.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:19 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):

She's not bad looking at all!
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747400sp
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:19 pm

Well since we have an A330NEO, A32Xneo and 737 max, let have fun, and around out the aircraft numbers games, and make a 727 max. Lol        
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting metalinyoni (Reply 162):

I must have missed it....I can't recall the specs showing an all new wing...just more span.
What the...?
 
blrsea
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting StickShaker (Reply 63):

MTOW stays at 242t.

338 range is 7450nm

339 range is 6200nm.

How does the MTOW stay the same with bigger wing, more passengers capacity and newer heavier engines? Are they shaving more weight off the airframe? Where all from?
 
karadion
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):
And Airbus will compete against itself with the A339 versus the A359.

Can you elaborate on this?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:32 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):
The 788 will continue to have no competitor. The 789 is safe against the A338.

Actually the A338 goes against the 788 and the A339 against the 789.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 169):
Are they shaving more weight off the airframe?

They said the A330 airframe will lose 800 kg weight.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
astuteman
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:42 pm

Quoting georgiaame (Reply 116):
Okay, not that I want to sound confused or anything. Help me out with a little history. In the early years of the turn of the Century, Airbus decided to build the A-350. It was an improved version of the A-330, with, if I'm not mistaken, new engines and a new wing design. Excuse the metaphors, but it was immediately shot down, crashed, and burned. NO one was even remotely interested in buying one

The confusion comes from your belief that no-one wanted it. Evidence suggests that demand was building. But the market didn't want to see Airbus technologically in 2nd place across the twin-aisle range.
They should have stuck with the original A350 Mk1 and made the A350XWB a bigger family, centred on the A359 and A3510 as a common pair

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 125):
The fact that the first iteration is now deemed marketable can only be down to the reality of the 787 (whether in capability or acquisition costs) , improvements to the A330, and additional A330 orders allowing for Airbus to drive down their costs

Agree with all of that

Quoting grantcv (Reply 151):
So now that Airbus is building their original concept for the A350 from 2004 -- and the one the airline's nixed back in 2006, wouldn't it perhaps have been better if Airbus had designed the A350 to be a pure B777 competitor. Now they've got two aircraft bunched together in the lower part of the market, a huge gap, and one too big plane at the top. And there is no way they can afford to plug the gap.

agree with the 777 competitor bit. Far from cramping the bottom end, the A330NEO creates a nicely spaced family across the range.

Quoting metalinyoni (Reply 162):
If Airbus' claims that the A330 - 800 and -900 will match the 787 in efficiency with just new engines and a wing (amongst other things), can we assume that this whole CRFP fuselage lark has been a bit of a waste of time?

It's not that simple. They have to endow it with a 4m larger wingspan, which reduces the drag, but which makes the airframe a lot heavier than the equivalent 787 - hence the lower ranges.
They are also needing to price it more sharply.
CFP is only one element in a complex picture

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):
The 788 will continue to have no competitor.

except for the A338 of course, which should compete quite well  .
FWIW I don't think either of these smallest models are in the sweet spot any more.
The 789 and 339 are where the fun is to be had IMO

Rgds

Rgds
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):
The 788 will continue to have no competitor.

Except for where airlines find the A338 the right fit.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):
The 789 is safe against the A338

If the 789 is the perfect fit, it's the perfect fit. But if an airline wants a little more performance, or less, there's the A359 and A339 respectively.
come visit the south pacific
 
paparrucho
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 171):

Actually the A338 goes against the 788 and the A339 against the 789.

Well at 310 passengers and 6,200 nm range, the a330-900 should be compared against the 323 passenger 7020 nm range 787-10, not the 280 passenger, 8,300 nm range 789-9. But then, of course, it will be killed by 787-10.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting Karadion (Reply 170):
Can you elaborate on this?

If a customer doesn't need the range of the A359, they can pit Airbus against Airbus. From what Airbus is claiming about the performance of the A330neo, you're looking at two aircraft with similar size and economics. It's inefficient redundancy in your product offerings.
 
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PM
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:53 pm

Quoting Coronado (Reply 158):
as long as Delta has confidence in RR engines (a given)

Thank you.   
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:55 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 175):
you're looking at two aircraft with similar size and economics

They are not the same size.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
paparrucho
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:57 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 175):
If a customer doesn't need the range of the A359, they can pit Airbus against Airbus. From what Airbus is claiming about the performance of the A330neo, you're looking at two aircraft with similar size and economics. It's inefficient redundancy in your product offerings.

Plus that other thing called the 787-10!
 
astuteman
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting blrsea (Reply 169):
How does the MTOW stay the same with bigger wing, more passengers capacity and newer heavier engines? Are they shaving more weight off the airframe? Where all from?

The empty weight will have risen considerably. To stay within the MTOW for a given payload, it will have to tank a lot less fuel. Hence the range growth has been limited to about 400Nm.

12% lower trip fuel should have increased the A332's range to about 8 000Nm at 242t. But it hasn't.
It still burns less fuel, but also carries less for a given payload due to the weight limit.
The overall tank capacity won't have changed.

have to agree with the poster who has predicted progressive improvements.
I don't think the MTOW will stay at 242t for ever.
even 3t extra should add c. 250Nm to the ranges

Rgds
 
SelseyBill
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:11 pm

Quoting andrej (Thread starter):
A330-800NEO
A330-900NEO

-> powered by RR engines (Trent 7000).
-> deliveries start in 4Q17
-> cuts fuel consumption by 14% per seat.
-> range increased by 400NM.

Great news, and congratulations to everyone @ RR all over the East Midlands and beyond.

Now that the "A330NEO becoming more likely" thread has been locked; I just wanted to belatedly pay tribute to "Astuteman"/ "KarelXWB"/ "Lightsaber"/ "Stitch"/ Zeke" and all the other learned members who contributed to this wonderful set of threads.

As someone relatively new to aviation who comes to these pages to learn; it is a welcome contrast to some of the other inbalanced patriotic drivvle sometimes evident here.

Thanks again for a darn good read gentlemen !!!!

[Edited 2014-07-14 11:36:02]
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:22 pm

IMO, there will be no A350-1100.

If Airbus wants to take on the 777-8 and -9 in a 1:1 competition, they may as well clean sheet something.

Even if they did that, who'll buy it?
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karadion
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 182):
Even if they did that, who'll buy it?

Emirates! Oh wait...  
 
micstatic
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 188):
I am serious. The A330neo costs more than the 787, and since it is still more expensive to operate than the 787, there is no valid reason for DL (or any other airline) to order it. Doing so would be in bad faith and against the airline's best interest.

Basically a good case can be made for the A330NEO when you consider a cheaper up front purchase cost to compensate for fuel burn penalty over 787. Also A330NEO slots can be had quicker than 787. So for years you can be already flying an A330NEO and saving fuel by the time you'd ever be able to get a 787. Opportunity cost at play. If it was as black and white as you make it, Airbus would never be launching this plane.
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M1chl
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:34 pm

Can someone enlighten me, why the bigger version has lower range? Isn't there more space for fuel tanks? Sorry, if it has been already discussed.
 
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speedbored
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 188):
The A330neo costs more than the 787

You have evidence to support this? And don't quote list prices - noone pays that.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 188):
it is still more expensive to operate than the 787

And how on earth do you know how much a non-existent aircraft costs to operate?
 
mham001
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting A520 (Reply 187):
What you evaluate is a ration performance / price ... so how could the A339 never win?

We don't actually know that yet. And won't until some negotiations have been leaked. The price lists are quite surprising.

Availability might be a bigger factor.



[Edited 2014-07-14 11:40:43]
 
MSPNWA
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:37 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 177):
They are not the same size.

Similar =/= same. And they don't have to the same to compete against each other.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 182):
Even if they did that, who'll buy it?

Those who ask for it, just like the A330neo?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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sassiciai
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:44 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):
obsolete technology like the A330

Careful with your misuse of English!

Might be worth checking a dictionary for "obsolete" and seeing how it applies to an aircraft currently in production

There is a very large set of pax who prefer the A330 cabin with its 2-4-2 seating in Y over the stuffed 3-3-3 in the new-fangled B787

It's also very wrong to blindly think "new" = "better". In many cases, the reverse is true!
 
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frigatebird
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 150):
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 153):They can always double stretch the 359
or triple stretch the A350-800 ?????

The A350-900 is the base model, the -800 a (non-optimised) shrink, which failed. A hypothetical A350-1100 would be a double strectch, like the 787-10. Very good CASM, like the 787-10, but that is not always decisive.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 172):
But the market didn't want to see Airbus technologically in 2nd place across the twin-aisle range.

And Airbus even less, especially John Leahy. He wanted a plane that could beat the Boeing product. Losing the QF, AC and AI deals did hurt at the time. He got a winner with the A350XWB, although ironically this plane can now officially be labelled as the 777 competitor.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 172):
They should have stuck with the original A350 Mk1 and made the A350XWB a bigger family, centred on the A359 and A3510 as a common pair

When the A350XWB was launched, I thought Airbus would keep the Original A350-800 (non-XWB) as 787-8 competitor. Was surprised to see them leave this part of the market to Boeing.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 172):
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 165):The 788 will continue to have no competitor.except for the A338 of course, which should compete quite well .FWIW I don't think either of these smallest models are in the sweet spot any more.The 789 and 339 are where the fun is to be had IMO

  

Quoting paparrucho (Reply 174):
Well at 310 passengers and 6,200 nm range, the a330-900 should be compared against the 323 passenger 7020 nm range 787-10, not the 280 passenger, 8,300 nm range 789-9. But then, of course, it will be killed by 787-10.

Boeing and Airbus have different standards when it comes to their standard seat count. And like their list prices, both shouldn't be taken seriously   

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 181):
Now that the "A330NEO becoming more likely" thread has been locked; I just wanted to belatedly pay tribute to "Astuteman"/ "KarelXWB"/ "Lightsaber"/ "Stitch"/ Zeke" and all the other learned members who contributed to this wonderful set of threads.

A special congratulation is in order for Astuteman, who has been an advocate for the A330neo for years. I wonder if his numbers (from the back of a pack of fags) have sparked Airbus to give the A330 a better and more serious look. Well done my friend, deep respect   

Quoting A520 (Reply 187):
Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 181):I hope the A330neo NEVER gets FAA certification, thus precluding any U.S. airline from buying it... a bit overdramatic, no?

Please take good care when quoting someone else. This quote was not from SelseyBill.
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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting Karadion (Reply 184):
Emirates! Oh wait...

I see what you did there   

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 194):
Those who ask for it, just like the A330neo?

Perhaps so.
I think Airbus will be okay however.

A338 - A358 Alternative
A339 - Poor Man's A359
A359 - Money Maker
A35J - Light 777-8
A388 - With NEO, may survive the next decade, providing demand is what's turned out to be.

Looks like a good Widebody lineup.

[Edited 2014-07-14 11:54:48]
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SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:53 pm

Isn't anyone else surprised by the high US$[275] million price tag for the new A330neos (acknowledging this is before discount) ?

If you took that at face value then it kind of erodes some of the chat in the lead in to this by Airbus which was that the A330neo, if launched) would compete well against the 787 due to the lower upfront capex cost of the plane.
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DocLightning
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:41 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 133):
After just having flown LH 416 last week on a A330, I have to say that the A330/340 family offers the least comfortable TATL experience compared to the 763, 764, 772, and 748 options I have flown recently as well. Something about its cabin just feels claustrophobic to me. So good for Airbus for trying to improve it!

Really? The only A330 I've ever flown is HA's, but the 2-4-2 seating is no less comfortable than the 767 and much better than 3-3-3 (or 3-4-3) on a 777 or 747. The cabin is bigger than the 767s and the ride is quieter.

The only critique I have is that their overhead bin design lacks imagination. They could have adapted the A350 interior, but instead they adapted the A330 interior by adding some cutesey lighting effects to it. Boeing found that swiveling bins were very popular among their Asian customers (not a region known for its tall people) and I'm surprised that Airbus hasn't changed their design accordingly.
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 pm

I remember awhile back there was conversation about how the A350 would be "too big" for certain airlines, with that being said do we have any idea of what airlines might switch from the A350 to the A330NEO? For some reason TAP and HA come to mind, and I believe both ordered the A358..

Regardless I am glad to see the new changes to the A330!
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting txlbased (Reply 50):
why didn´t they simply stick with -200/-300 and named it "neo

I guess the same reason as that "they" did not stick with B777-400 and B777-500, but B777-8 and B777-9 (or B747-500 vs 747-8I, for that matter); it's mainly marketing. And since I'm an engineer, there's not much I can say (wisely) about marketing . . .  

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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:25 pm

Leehamnews has an update on the 330neo...

http://leehamnews.com/
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 98):

I'll be curious to see if DL switches its current 330-300 orders to the Neo.

won't happen. Delta needs those frames next year. I don't see them waiting three years for any new WB jets.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 98):

Anyone see AA going for the A330Neo?

I think Parker already said no didn't he?
maybe not, if thats false then maybe...but they already have a good bit of 789s heading their way....

Quoting jetwet1 (Reply 114):
Do we finally have a home for the deposits VS put down on the 388's ?

My guess is yes.

Quoting PM (Reply 120):
And therefore switch from GE to RR...

Sorry PM, as much as we would love to see this happen....it wont.

of course if Delta wasn't launching for the new CF6 that order would have been for Trents.

Quoting max999 (Reply 137):
If I recall correctly, the current 333 order is scheduled to start delivering before the first NEOs enter service.

yep 2015.

Quoting max999 (Reply 137):

*I read a.net this is similar to what Boeing did for DL when they changed their 772ER options to purchasing the 772LR. DL paid the same price for the LR as they would have if they exercised their 772ER options.

I haven't heard that one, but maybe.

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 144):
Perhaps you could explain why you regard it as just a "warmed over A330," and does the same apply to companies who have ordered what is just a "warmed over B737" in the -MAX range?

Or just like the 320NEO is a warmed over A320.  
Quoting Coronado (Reply 158):
So I guess as long as Delta has confidence in RR engines (a given) it is not much of a jump for Delta to feel comfortable with A330-800/900's to satisfy their RFP requirements.

It boils down to Delta wanting to hedge its bets on a new engine type. Its not that they wouldn't have confidence in Rollers

but The Trent 1000 and GEnX are here, they are real engines that have real numbers. Trent 7000 doesn't. I still don't see the the 330NEO winning orders in the RFP.

My honest opinion is Anderson was pushing so hard to get a better price on ~10 or so more 330CEOs. When they ordered them I didn't believe they would have a 10 engine subfleet....and I still don't believe it today.

Quoting micstatic (Reply 183):
So for years you can be already flying an A330NEO and saving fuel by the time you'd ever be able to get a 787.

except it depends 100% on the carrier. Delta isn't going to get told to wait, Boeing always seems to be able to find spots for an airline like that.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 185):
You have evidence to support this? And don't quote list prices - noone pays that.

Even if you don't quote list prices, Airbus is -10% out of the gate to get to 787-9 list price. So if Boeing gives 50% AB has to give 60% just to match.

And then you have to count basically on the airline not wanting wait for a more capable aircraft. (and that they are happy with only being able to select the T7000, but I don't think that will really be an issue)

Quoting speedbored (Reply 185):
And how on earth do you know how much a non-existent aircraft costs to operate?

the same way Airbus or Boeing or an Airline does?

Quoting SInGAPORE_AIR (Reply 192):

Isn't anyone else surprised by the high US$[275] million price tag for the new A330neos (acknowledging this is before discount) ?

Me! I figured it would be ~10m less than the 787-9.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting metalinyoni (Reply 162):
If Airbus' claims that the A330 - 800 and -900 will match the 787 in efficiency with just new engines and a wing (amongst other things), can we assume that this whole CRFP fuselage lark has been a bit of a waste of time?

Perhaps, but both 787 and A350 in high density Y are shoving in an extra row of seats above 767 and A330 so they did need a new cross section. They could have chosen to continue to work in aluminum (alloys), but both did not.

Quoting M1chl (Reply 184):
Can someone enlighten me, why the bigger version has lower range? Isn't there more space for fuel tanks?

Perhaps, but the real issue is max take-off weight. The empty weight is increasing due to the heavier engines. This means that you can't carry as much fuel as you would with the lighter engines.

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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:46 pm

Quoting M1chl (Reply 184):
Can someone enlighten me, why the bigger version has lower range? Isn't there more space for fuel tanks? Sorry, if it has been already discussed.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 199):
Perhaps, but the real issue is max take-off weight. The empty weight is increasing due to the heavier engines. This means that you can't carry as much fuel as you would with the lighter engines.

I think he's asking for the larger A330 in general, the current A330-300 also has less range than the smaller A330-200.
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