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SKAirbus
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:26 am

It just sounds like Al Baker is once again being a spoilt brat.

Other airlines successfully took delivery of the A380 without the same amount of hoo-ha. I hope Airbus don't pander too much to his demands.

Airlines are right to be demanding... British Airways were very meticulous when it came to accepting their A380s but QR are essentially accusing Airbus of negligence. It just goes to show what a vile human being AAB is.
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:50 am

Quoting seahawk (Reply 48):
Considering the WSJ interview they are slamming Boeing and Airbus, I think they can not grow as fast as planed and are now blaming the plane makers, the EU or whomever is at hand for the problems.

He has expressed displeasure in that past with the quality of his 787-8s produced at Charleston to the point that Boeing now flies them to Everett for pre-delivery preparation so it could just be he feels neither OEM is up to the standards he expects.

Frankly, the man should just order more 777-200LRs and 777-300ERs as he seems to find their build quality acceptable.  
 
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kanban
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 48):

Considering the WSJ interview they are slamming Boeing and Airbus, I think they can not grow as fast as planed and are now blaming the plane makers, the EU or whomever is at hand for the problems.

while the two issues are occurring within the same time frame ( as is the Doha Airport delay), I don't think they are directly related.. He wouldn't make this much noise about the planes if the delays relieved other pressures. Yes, he may be reminding Europe that the airline has expansion plans there and needs some governmental concessions, however delaying 3 A380's doesn't have much impact after they're manufactured.. canceling unbuilt would have greater impact.
 
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speedbored
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:38 pm

Another article in FG:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rew-a380-to-pressure-qatar-401581/
You have to admire the audacity of the man.

His team nitpicks every detail so as to push the rework into the compensation period and he still expects Airbus to take the aircraft out of rework for a week to send it to Farnborough??? No doubt he would then have complained about additional damage done by the journalists, as hid did with his 787!

Someone is bullying here but I don't think it's Airbus.

Given that he has now nitpicked, and required a lot of costly re-work, on his most recent deliveries from both Boeing and Airbus, I suspect that he will find that the list-price discounts he can negotiate on any future orders from either manufacturer will be considerably reduced.

Yes, new aircraft have to be right but what's the point complaining about every single minute cosmetic blemish, when the first flight with real passengers will leave the aircraft covered in such blemishes?

There's only so much bullying you can get away with in business before it backfires on you. It seems to me that AAB has probably hit his limit.
 
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kanban
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:53 pm

Some of this reminds me of Eastern's 757's.. they looked at the brush anodize on the exterior window reveals with a magnifying glass and wanted 40% replaced.. war ensued. every unit is stock was inspected to select acceptable units for Eastern at great cost. Then someone asked a dumb question.. "what were the process criteria? and what was Eastern's criteria?" Turned out the Eastern Rep. misunderstood his company's criteria which was "no visible difference or scratches when viewed from the terminal"..

Quoting speedbored (Reply 53):
I suspect that he will find that the list-price discounts he can negotiate on any future orders from either manufacturer will be considerably reduced.

On the other hand, there might be a PR campaign along the lines of "our quality is accepted by Qatar's Al Baker, there is none better".. Or what was the old ad... "It isn't stamped 'Boeing' until Inspector #29 (Al Baker) says so"
 
Burkhard
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting mham001 (Reply 24):
Maybe he isn't quite ready to pay for them?
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
Or maybe the new Doha airport isn't ready yet. We don't know.

Or the ME3 bubble is bursting currently?
 
dennys
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:41 pm

Sorry if this has been sais before , but 388 is a VLA . Why QR cann ´ t switch them to 747-8i s ???
 
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scbriml
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting dennys (Reply 56):
Why QR cann ´ t switch them to 747-8i s ???

Because buying planes is a 20-30 year decision that costs billions of dollars. It's not like going to the supermarket and deciding which brand of soap to buy this week.   
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frigatebird
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:00 am

Quoting speedbored (Reply 53):
Given that he has now nitpicked, and required a lot of costly re-work, on his most recent deliveries from both Boeing and Airbus, I suspect that he will find that the list-price discounts he can negotiate on any future orders from either manufacturer will be considerably reduced.

Perhaps this was one of the reasons AAB said he wasn't considering adding more A380s or 787-9s for now. In another thread someone said Boeing wasn't offering such large discounts for the 787 anymore, would make sense for Airbus not give large discounts for A380 top up orders either.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 55):
Or the ME3 bubble is bursting currently?

QR's perhaps. Wouldn't mind if it happened. World is better off with just EK and EY as the large ME carriers, but that is just my very personal opinion.
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trent900
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:00 am

Quoting speedbored (Reply 53):
His team nitpicks every detail so as to push the rework into the compensation period
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 36):
The carrier found fault in the texturing of the paint, the interior cabin decor foils, which are similar to wallpaper, and the jet's non-textile floors, which are prevalent in the galley area. Those large galley structures now have to be removed to lay new flooring in a time-consuming process.

Surly as a manufacturer you would ask the question 'why weren't these issues spotted during cabin installation?'. Sounds to me they're just nit-picking to delay EIS!

D.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:10 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 49):
As I've always stated, and recently reiterated in a different thread: IMO there isn't enough room for 3 large ME carriers. In fact I'm not sure that there will be enough room for 2 considering how big EK is becoming.
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 55):
Or the ME3 bubble is bursting currently?

Looks like this is going to start Happening.

QR simply does not have a home market that justifies buying even one A380, not speaking of 10. They do not have the People operating These aircraft and have to rely on, politely spoken and I do not use the S word, contract workers who are treated like , well, I stay polite again.

That applies for all other aircraft they purchase in numbers that are simply not justifiedfor their market base.

LH issued a study that Shows how many A380 LH would have to buy based on the German market if they would make similar Investment decision , a staggering 1300 A380s. Any CEO of a western Company would go to jail for that, including the board and the supervisory board.

.
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par13del
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:18 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60):
QR simply does not have a home market that justifies buying even one A380, not speaking of 10.
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 60):
That applies for all other aircraft they purchase in numbers that are simply not justifiedfor their market base.

Hmmmm, I think if we go back and look at the threads years ago when these type orders are placed by the carriers involved such sentiment is rarely mentioned.
Guess everyone likes to look on the bright side when orders are made.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting trent900 (Reply 59):
Surly as a manufacturer you would ask the question 'why weren't these issues spotted during cabin installation?'. Sounds to me they're just nit-picking to delay EIS!

Sometimes, especially with a new product, issues with the flooring and "wallpaper" don't show up until the airplane is in flight pressurizing and bending.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting andrej (Reply 45):
According to Al Baker, 'problems' with A380 delivery are much bigger than interior glitch, but declined to be more specific.

Perhaps one of the problems is that the entire DOH local market could fit in one 380?  
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astuteman
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting trent900 (Reply 59):
Surely as a manufacturer you would ask the question 'why weren't these issues spotted during cabin installation?'. Sounds to me they're just nit-picking to delay EIS!

In this article

http://aviationweek.com/farnborough-...mmid'&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1_b

which relates to a decision on an A380NEO being made in 2015, Leahy is quoted as saying

Quote:
that Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker is complaining about “cosmetic issues” such as slightly imperfect colors and gaps between cabin walls and passenger information stickers. “There is no reason why a different airline would not have taken the aircraft,”

He goes on to say that "He believes that Airbus could have insisted on Qatar taking the aircraft, while the small remaining issues could be addressed during the next maintenance downtime. But with the airline being as important a customer as it is, the manufacturer is still aiming at an amicable solution"

Rgds
 
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:21 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 64):
He goes on to say that "He believes that Airbus could have insisted on Qatar taking the aircraft, while the small remaining issues could be addressed during the next maintenance downtime. But with the airline being as important a customer as it is, the manufacturer is still aiming at an amicable solution"

Important A350 customer...  
 
mffoda
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:39 pm

As I implied in reply #34, This delay could very well be related to the recent door frame crack issues??

From Reuters:

"Late in the day, Airbus sought to reassure participants after a German broadcaster reported the planemaker's plans to upgrade the doors on its A380 superjumbo could mean the programme breaking even later than expected.

A spokesman said Airbus was testing improvements to the doors after incidents mainly involving noise during flights and that it expected the upgrade to be approved in the autumn, and fitted to all planes rolling off the production line from 2015.

He said it was unclear how much the upgrade would cost but that Airbus was "well on track" to reach breakeven on the A380 in 2015, as planned."


http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...show-britain-idUSL6N0PR22R20140716
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Stitch
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 66):
As I implied in reply #34, This delay could very well be related to the recent door frame crack issues??

Mr. Akbar Al Baker has been directly quoted in multiple interviews that he is not satisfied with the quality of certain interior components installed on his A380s and therefore has delayed taking delivery of them because of it.

Airbus CEO Tom Enders also confirmed in an interview that this is the reason for hold-up in handing the airframes over to QR.
 
wzafar
Posts: 293
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:37 pm

Some more interviews:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHhWTm9u85Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRa5U1efe5g
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Qatar Rejects Delivery Of 3 A380

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:38 am

Quoting mffoda (Reply 66):
As I implied in reply #34, This delay could very well be related to the recent door frame crack issues??

I doubt it. Other airlines are taking their A380s, the doors will be addressed during scheduled maintenance.
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