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opethfan
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YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:58 pm

No details on times or equipment yet, but starts Jan 4th. No official announcement from the airline.

https://twitter.com/yvrairport/status/488780774942851073

It seems everyone wants a piece of the pie.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:11 pm

Quoting Opethfan (Thread starter):

My guess: 4x daily CRJ-900s.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
briguychau
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:19 pm

According to this:

http://airlineroute.net/2014/06/24/dl-laxyvr-dec14/

Delta is operating LAX-YVR for the holiday season, but this seems like it could be permanent service, or maybe mainline. The tweet says starting Jan 4, which is the day the holiday service ends.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:20 pm

So how crowded will this be ? AC WS AS DL AA UA ?
 
opethfan
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting MesaflyGuy (Reply 1):

Based on a twitter reply, it looks like booking is available Dec 20 - Jan 4, on a Compass E175.
1705 YVR - 2004 LAX
0715 LAX - 1018 YVR
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:48 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
So how crowded will this be ? AC WS AS DL AA UA ?

Not crowded enough if you ask me.
People are staying away from AC like the plague since the route has been rouged.
Plenty of opportunities for everyone.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:49 pm

Operates during the holiday period only Dec 20, 2014 - Jan 4, 2015 daily with a Compass E75
 
ElPistolero
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:31 pm

The post also lists AA (Oct 2) - what equipment is AA using?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:48 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 7):

Mesa CRJ-900s
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
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longhauler
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 5):
People are staying away from AC like the plague since the route has been rouged.

Uh huh?
 

Just checked tomorrow, four flights, 12/124 on each ... no more than 10 open seats a flight!
Yup, sure is a failure.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
CdnCactus
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:19 pm

If there's ever YVR - SAN I'd be happy. Guess that's too small a piece of the pie compared to LAX.
 
opethfan
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:33 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):

Depends on the yields. If it's just $150 per segment vacationers vs FFs and the entertainment sector, then it may not be as lucrative as thought. But I'm sure AC have crunched their numbers.

Quoting CdnCactus (Reply 10):
If there's ever YVR - SAN I'd be happy. Guess that's too small a piece of the pie compared to LAX.

I'd imagine that would be a WS route, but right now they only serve SAN through YYC, which means I'd rather connect in SFO, PHX, SEA, or just fly into LAX or SNA.
 
SwissCanuck
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):

Cool , considering AC 's system only displays a maximum of 9 seats available, where are you getting this information?
 
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longhauler
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:57 pm

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 11):
Depends on the yields. If it's just $150 per segment vacationers vs FFs and the entertainment sector, then it may not be as lucrative as thought. But I'm sure AC have crunched their numbers.

That's just it. When I heard that Rouge was replacing mainline on YVR-LAX/SFO, it made me think the route wasn't what it used to be.

As I mentioned on another thread, I remember when CP operated specially configured B737-200s with 30J (and 60Y) passengers between YVR and LAX/SFO to keep up with premium passenger demand.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
ElPistolero
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:27 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 13):
That's just it. When I heard that Rouge was replacing mainline on YVR-LAX/SFO, it made me think the route wasn't what it used to be.

It seems to have become a significantly more popular and busy route all of a sudden. Despite a capacity increase through Rouge, two new carriers are entering the market. AA's Mesa CRJ 900s appear to have a real J cabin; presumably DL will come in with something similar.

I'm pleased with these new entrants and capacity - more people flying is always a good thing in my books -but I can't help but wonder where the market has suddenly appeared from. Were they just not served earlier? Are airfares dropping so significantly that they're stimulating a whole new market? I suspect its a combination of both, but the entry of carriers with real J seats seems to signal that other carriers are sensing an opportunity to capitalize on developments post-Rouge deployment.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
So how crowded will this be ? AC WS AS DL AA UA ?

That is correct. Before AA and DL came along I had thought this route might be a good opportunity for VX, but at this point they'd be better off just offering SFO-YVR if they ever wanted to serve Vancouver.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 5):
Plenty of opportunities for everyone.

I highly doubt that. I daresay it won't be long before UA cuts LAX-YVR (again). AC and AS are historically the dominant carriers on this route, although the new AA service will be fine given its ties with the entertainment industry. DL is historically very weak in Canada, and even NW was never all that strong in BC. I believe DL is just running peak holiday period nonstop flights, as seems to be an increasingly common practice throughout their network. LAX-YVR via SEA or SLC is always an option the rest of the time.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
YVRLTN
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:55 am

Another shot at AS, this is their only route to YVR (non QX).

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 5):
People are staying away from AC like the plague since the route has been rouged.

Im pretty sure I saw on my twitter feed the other day the route is increasing to 767 - odd kind of plague
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
briguychau
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 16):
Im pretty sure I saw on my twitter feed the other day the route is increasing to 767 - odd kind of plague

YVR-LAX service on "the plague" is reducing from 4 daily to 3 daily on Nov 28, but one daily flight is upgauging from A319 to B763, so there is a 4 seats per day gain in capacity.

http://airlineroute.net/2014/06/14/zx-yvrlax-dec14/
 
9252fly
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:10 am

I don't honestly think YVR - LAX commands much of a premium yield anymore,hence it being Rouged by AC. In fact,I would suggest AC was losing money with mainline. It's only going to get worse,fares will drop and the flights will be full of low yield fares with F/J filled by cheap upgrades.
 
MAH4546
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:22 am

Delta will only operate the route once a day for two weeks during winter break. It is not introducing a regular LAXYVR service.
a.
 
opethfan
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 13):
As I mentioned on another thread, I remember when CP operated specially configured B737-200s with 30J (and 60Y) passengers between YVR and LAX/SFO to keep up with premium passenger demand.

The question there is: has the J market decreased, has AC failed to gain (or retain) J pax, or is it just that Y marketshare has increased much quicker than J?

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 16):
Another shot at AS, this is their only route to YVR (non QX).

I'm not sure about that. YVR is a QX route due to the proximity to SEA, so it's not like DL are deliberately going after AS' mainline routes, IMO.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 16):
Another shot at AS, this is their only route to YVR (non QX).

    How is running a route for two weeks a shot at AS?
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:07 am

This is not a "shot" at anyone, it is a holiday period only addition, mean to capitalize on the increased amount of leisure/VFR traffic during a period when business travel is non-existant.

DL operates primarily as a leisure airline from 12/20/14 - 1/4/15.
 
Whiteguy
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting SwissCanuck (Reply 12):

Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):

Cool , considering AC 's system only displays a maximum of 9 seats available, where are you getting this information?


Since he's an AC employee probably on the employee travel site that shows accurate numbers.
 
opethfan
Topic Author
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting MesaflyGuy (Reply 21):
How is running a route for two weeks a shot at AS?

The tweet implies that there will a new service from Jan 4th. They probably wouldn't be promoting the date that a carrier stops a route.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:26 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):
This is not a "shot" at anyone, it is a holiday period only addition, mean to capitalize on the increased amount of leisure/VFR traffic during a period when business travel is non-existant.

DL is doing the same thing out of SEA this winter...holiday service to SJD, PVR, BZN but then cutting back to 1x weekly. Why bother with a route that only operates once a week? Are they taking a page from G4?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:45 am

Adding peak day nonstop flights into leisure markets, using aircraft that have idle/excess availability on weekends when they are not needed to fly the weekday schedule. Like they do in markets in the eastern half of the US they fly some of these routes Saturday only and have single-connections through other hubs on the days where the nonstop does not operate.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:13 am

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 20):
I'm not sure about that. YVR is a QX route due to the proximity to SEA, so it's not like DL are deliberately going after AS' mainline routes, IMO.

Well, they have introduced YVR-SEA too so Im not too sure about that. DL have never tried this route before and their seasonals have all been from hubs with no / limited competition. AS used to have a greater presence at YVR, though it is not due to DL they have lost it.

Quoting briguychau (Reply 17):
but one daily flight is upgauging from A319 to B763, so there is a 4 seats per day gain in capacity.

Thanks for the correction, makes sense.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
acws777
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:33 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 18):
Quoting Opethfan (Reply 20):

AC YVR/YYC- LAX route is low yield, always oversold in Y so people got free uprgardes to J, hence it be rouged.

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 23):

Yeah he is right. Flights for the next 3 days are 90% full except for the 7am departure.
 
opethfan
Topic Author
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 27):
Well, they have introduced YVR-SEA too so Im not too sure about that.

Not as feed to the international hub? Certainly not for the o&d market, as Amtrak, buses, and driving take almost all of that.

Quoting acws777 (Reply 28):
AC YVR/YYC- LAX route is low yield, always oversold in Y so people got free uprgardes to J, hence it be rouged.

Right, but if CP were operating 30J on the route in years past, and AA are deciding to enter the route now, what's happening at AC for the premium market to be either dwindling or heading elsewhere? Is it due to changes in the market, or issues with Air Canada's product?
 
aviationaware
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:07 am

Probably a reaction to Air Canada transferring the route to Rogue, to fetch premium travelers.
 
iyerhari
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:14 pm

Sorry if I'm asking this in a wrong forum but something that I always had a question - does Canada have a closed sky policy in terms of providing only limited slots to non Air-Canada operators? The reason I ask is there maybe a decent opportunity for O&D travel from BOS to YVR considering the tourists or maybe B6 could land a slot to fly within Canada?
 
jetblue1965
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Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:25 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 31):
Sorry if I'm asking this in a wrong forum but something that I always had a question - does Canada have a closed sky policy in terms of providing only limited slots to non Air-Canada operators? The reason I ask is there maybe a decent opportunity for O&D travel from BOS to YVR considering the tourists or maybe B6 could land a slot to fly within Canada?

I believe Canada and US have local-carrier open skies - i.e. Any carrier based in either US or CA can fly transborder all they want, but those rights don't apply for foreign carriers. Special cases are granted like CX YVR-JFK or the now-discontinued PR YVR-LAS.
 
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longhauler
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:32 pm

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 29):
Is it due to changes in the market, or issues with Air Canada's product?

I would guess it is a change in the market. Let's face it, airlines have access to numbers of which we can only dream. AC has a lot of routes with high premium cabin demand. That's why you see things like a B77L with 30% of the "floor space" taken up by only 42J seats!

YVR-LAX/SFO is no longer one of those routes.

With regard to the on-board product, I would match AC's domestic product against any American carrier's. Even Virgin America. Premium cabin service has been improving a great deal on American carriers in the last few years ... but AC too has been improving it's product. As a result, while AC may be no better than an American carrier, it sure isn't any worse!

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 31):
Sorry if I'm asking this in a wrong forum but something that I always had a question - does Canada have a closed sky policy in terms of providing only limited slots to non Air-Canada operators?

Not at all. Canada and the US have full open skies. That being said though, there are some US airports with slot restrictions and gate/terminal limitations limiting access, but that is true for both Canadian and American carriers.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
9252fly
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 31):
The reason I ask is there maybe a decent opportunity for O&D travel from BOS to YVR considering the tourists or maybe B6 could land a slot to fly within Canada?

Was once a CP route from the late 90's. Never lasted more than a few years. How times have changed!
 
travelin man
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:53 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 14):
I'm pleased with these new entrants and capacity - more people flying is always a good thing in my books -but I can't help but wonder where the market has suddenly appeared from. Were they just not served earlier? Are airfares dropping so significantly that they're stimulating a whole new market? I suspect its a combination of both, but the entry of carriers with real J seats seems to signal that other carriers are sensing an opportunity to capitalize on developments post-Rouge deployment.

I do think YVR has become more "top of mind" for vacationers from Southern California, especially since the 2010 Winter Olympics. Lately I've run into many more people that have been to YVR and have skiied Whistler.

There are probably other dynamics at work but I do think the market has grown in the last few years. The entertainment industry keeps the route full as well. I personally know people working two different productions that are up in YVR right now and commute back and forth between LAX and YVR.
 
300CAP
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:19 pm

Outsourcing...Outsourcing....Outsourcing. Oh well. And I thought that DL and AA were flying the route. At least UA flying mainline ANC to SFO.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:41 pm

I thought a while ago UA and AC applied for some sort of Transborder JV ... what happened to that ?
 
multimark
Posts: 467
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:53 pm

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 33):
With regard to the on-board product, I would match AC's domestic product against any American carrier's. Even Virgin America. Premium cabin service has been improving a great deal on American carriers in the last few years ... but AC too has been improving it's product. As a result, while AC may be no better than an American carrier, it sure isn't any worse!

Your statement certainly does NOT apply to any flight that has ben Rouged.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:23 pm

Quoting SwissCanuck (Reply 12):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 9):


Cool , considering AC 's system only displays a maximum of 9 seats available, where are you getting this information?

He's getting it from AC's internal reservations system which shows exact booking details for all flights.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1981
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 33):
With regard to the on-board product, I would match AC's domestic product against any American carrier's. Even Virgin America. Premium cabin service has been improving a great deal on American carriers in the last few years ... but AC too has been improving it's product. As a result, while AC may be no better than an American carrier, it sure isn't any worse!

Which would be an entirely relevant assessment of the situation were it not for the fact that the route in question - YVR-LAX - is not served by AC; its served by Rouge.

Quoting travelin man (Reply 35):
I do think YVR has become more "top of mind" for vacationers from Southern California, especially since the 2010 Winter Olympics. Lately I've run into many more people that have been to YVR and have skiied Whistler.

I dont doubt it, but it still wouldn't explain the sudden surge in capacity that began in April or May 2014 with AC Rouge's introduction onto the route. 4 years is a long time to go from 'top of mind' to check-in counter, unless its a decline in fares that made these trips viable.

That said, if it is a decline in fares that has prompted this, then I welcome it with open arms. All in favor of an increase in affordability.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:35 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 40):
Quoting longhauler (Reply 33):
With regard to the on-board product, I would match AC's domestic product against any American carrier's. Even Virgin America. Premium cabin service has been improving a great deal on American carriers in the last few years ... but AC too has been improving it's product. As a result, while AC may be no better than an American carrier, it sure isn't any worse!

Which would be an entirely relevant assessment of the situation were it not for the fact that the route in question - YVR-LAX - is not served by AC; its served by Rouge.

To virtually all passengers, Rouge is still AC, just like they also thought of Tango and Zip as AC.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:39 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 41):

Pitch is quite a bit less

31" for standard AC, as low as 29 for rouge
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1981
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 41):
To virtually all passengers, Rouge is still AC, just like they also thought of Tango and Zip as AC.

I don't disagree. That's what landed AC in hot water (CTA investigations) and prompted the refunds to people whose flights had been Rouged.

I'm simply pointing out that there is a difference between the AC and the AC Rouge products. AC's product is , in fact, at least as good, if not better than most US mainline carriers, as longhauler pointed out. AC Rouge...well, I don't think any level of patriotism-induced spin will change the reality that AC Rouge's product is not among the best in North America.

[Edited 2014-07-15 17:37:27]
 
Viscount724
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 43):
I'm simply pointing out that there is a difference between the AC and the AC Rouge products. AC's product is , in fact, at least as good, if not better than most US mainline carriers, as longhauler pointed out. AC Rouge...well, I don't think any level of patriotism-induced spin will change the reality that AC Rouge's product is not among the best in North America.

I agree, and AC markets Rouge as a low-cost brand with more basic service. It's only an issue during the introductory phase when passengers originally booked on AC mainline flights find themselves on Rouge. Even there, I doubt the majority of passengers are complaining and many don't fly often enough to be aware of the differences.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1981
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 44):
many don't fly often enough to be aware of the differences.

Then where is this new leisure market coming from? If they're not flying regularly, how are these airlines going to fill these seats.

The injection of this much capacity on a route within 6 months (referring only to ACr and AA) is impressive. And odd.

Any clarification on DL? Are they referring only to the holiday period service?
 
9252fly
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 45):
Then where is this new leisure market coming from? If they're not flying regularly, how are these airlines going to fill these seats.

If you price low enough it creates a market in itself. People that wouldn't have considered flying suddenly find it affordable. That comes with a price,tighter seat pitch,you can't have it both ways. We may accuse AC of rouging us,but we the consumer are our own worst enemy as airlines respond to our desire to pay less and less.
 
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longhauler
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RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 40):
Which would be an entirely relevant assessment of the situation were it not for the fact that the route in question - YVR-LAX - is not served by AC; its served by Rouge.

Yes, but it was the result, return and assessment of AC's mainline flights between YVR and LAX, that made the decision to transfer the route to Rouge.

Rouge has a huge advantage over other "start up" carriers, as every new route flown has been previously assessed by AC HQ. Even before the first plane left the gate, they pretty well knew how successful it would be.

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 45):
Then where is this new leisure market coming from? If they're not flying regularly, how are these airlines going to fill these seats.

I don't think they are going to fill these planes .... it's going to be a blood bath, then it's the airline with the lowest seat mile cost that wins. Enter Rouge.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 1981
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 46):
We may accuse AC of rouging us,but we the consumer are our own worst enemy as airlines respond to our desire to pay less and less.

The accusations about Rouge typically revolved around the poor value-for-money proposition - namely high prices and poor product. If the prices reflect the product (ie - low enough to offer a reasonable proposition), then there isn't much to complain about.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 47):
I don't think they are going to fill these planes .... it's going to be a blood bath, then it's the airline with the lowest seat mile cost that wins. Enter Rouge.

So market share is going to come at the expense of yields. If I'm not mistaken, you've often pointed out before that AC has higher RASMs than US airlines. Given that US airlines are now becoming profitable, and have had a lower CASM to begin with,those airfares are going to have to be pretty low for a bloodbath. I suspect those margins are going to be pretty tight.

Not that I'm complaining. Its probably the healthiest competition we've seen in Canada for years. I suppose the question is: would this have happened without Rouge's introduction on the route?
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: YVR Announces DL To LAX

Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:11 am

Quoting 300CAP (Reply 36):
At least UA flying mainline ANC to SFO.

Shhhh don't let them figure out they can fly 2x a day E45X's.

atct
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Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos