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Qatara340
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Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:36 pm

Announced by Skytrax:

Cathay Pacific Airline of the Year 2014

AirAsia named best low-cost airline by Skytrax - Channel NewsAsia http://cna.asia/Wf1KrY @tonyfernandes @airasiain @MittuChandilya congrats

Turkish Airlines
"We’ve been named “Best Airline in Europe” for the fourth year in a row in the 2014 Skytrax World Airline Awards! pic.twitter.com/LjI5brkexN"

Qatar Airways

#QatarAirways CEO H.E. Akbar Al Baker with the #Skytrax Award for "World's Best Business Class" at #FIA14. pic.twitter.com/eoCmLXnx6A

Also Best Airline in the Middle East.

All sources via Twitter Live feed,
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
OEH68
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:57 pm

This must be based on long haul, because CX regional i very average. I think Asiana is better in every aspect on intra asian travel.
OEH68
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:58 pm

congrats to CX - very well deserved.

so what's the best airline of north america? delta again ?
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:11 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 1):

Cathay are as good as it gets. You might have your own personal preference - Singapore, Lufty, BA, JAL - but it would be hard to put your hand on your heart and say any of them are better than Cathay.

I disagree with this. I can point to a number of areas where those airlines are superior to CX.

Take SQ and a Y class comparison as one example:
- Larger PTV's.
- Larger meals.
- Amenity kits.

Meanwhile, CX:
- Use the horrendous 'shell' seat on a number of short-haul and long-haul routes.
- Serve a measly 'lunch-box' to TPE; SQ serve a hot meal to CGK (equivalent distance).
- Have not modernized their fleet to the same extent (continued use of 744's and 343's).

Even a quick Google search will tell you that CX has a 3.5/5 star customer ranking on the Skytrax website, while SQ has a 4.5/5 star ranking.

CX has deteriorated significantly in recent years. While still good, for them to be ranked as the top airline in the world is simply erroneous.

[Edited 2014-07-15 09:13:00]
 
migair54
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:48 pm

We all know that Skytrax is not exactly a real indication of quality, the "support" airlines made to skytrax is more important than the real facts.

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
#QatarAirways CEO H.E. Akbar Al Baker with the #Skytrax Award for "World's Best Business Class" at #FIA14. pic.twitter.com/eoCmLXnx6A

I hope this is not based on the new A380 interiors.
 
SIA747Megatop
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 4):
Serve a measly 'lunch-box' to TPE

They serve these on the SIN redeyes and these flights are 3.5 hours. Furthermore at lower fare classes CX doesn't allow seat selection.
I found the edit signature button
 
Cipango
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 4):
- Serve a measly 'lunch-box' to TPE; SQ serve a hot meal to CGK (equivalent distance).

Perhaps CX understand that one does not simply need a hot meal on such a short route.
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
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EPA001
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Announced by Skytrax:

Cathay Pacific Airline of the Year 2014

AirAsia named best low-cost airline by Skytrax - Channel NewsAsia http://cna.asia/Wf1KrY @tonyfernandes @airasiain @MittuChandilya congrats

Turkish Airlines
"We’ve been named “Best Airline in Europe” for the fourth year in a row in the 2014 Skytrax World Airline Awards! pic.twitter.com/LjI5brkexN"

Qatar Airways

#QatarAirways CEO H.E. Akbar Al Baker with the #Skytrax Award for "World's Best Business Class" at #FIA14. pic.twitter.com/eoCmLXnx6A

Also Best Airline in the Middle East.

I guess congratulations are in place for all the winners in their category. But of course CX took the main prize, hats off to them.

[Edited 2014-07-15 11:02:34]
 
SIA747Megatop
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 7):
Perhaps CX understand that one does not simply need a hot meal on such a short route.

Then how do they justify the fare premium they charge ex-HKG? Regardless of whether it's needed or not, this is still inferior to the competition in the region.
I found the edit signature button
 
SIA747Megatop
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting cipango (Reply 7):
Perhaps CX understand that one does not simply need a hot meal on such a short route.

Then how do they justify the fare premium they charge ex-HKG? Regardless of whether it's needed or not, this is still inferior to the competition in the region.
I found the edit signature button
 
pasu129
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:59 pm

From personal experience, Singaporeans tend to complain a lot...   

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 6):
They serve these on the SIN redeyes and these flights are 3.5 hours. Furthermore at lower fare classes CX doesn't allow seat selection.

Maybe it is the keyword "lower fare classes" that prohibits the crucial seat selection!

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 9):

Quoting cipango (Reply 7):
Perhaps CX understand that one does not simply need a hot meal on such a short route.

Then how do they justify the fare premium they charge ex-HKG? Regardless of whether it's needed or not, this is still inferior to the competition in the region.

With only 1.5hrs flight time (HKG - TPE), to serve an entire 777's or 747's meal with such short time would be difficult, VX only serves drinks on LAS - SFO in Y class and warm nuts in F class, while I agree it should be served regardless of need, one has to wonder if meal was provided, would that increase the fare premium since it uses more fuel for carrying such and cost to make them? And would service level suffer due to rush to complete meal service?

While I stated many arguments, Skytrax isn't specific about which category CX is "best" at. If overall scoring includes booking experience, airport and ground service, lounge service and amenities, inflight service and amenities, I think CX has done an amazing job.

[Edited 2014-07-15 11:00:24]

[Edited 2014-07-15 11:03:19]
Viva Las Vegas
 
MKIAZ
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 4):

I'd agree that SQ is marginally better in some areas (mostly regional). For a North American based traveller though CX will mostly always win be default due to one less stop.

All the others are a joke. LH? The regional business class there is economy seats. 8kg for hand baggage for business class. Long haul is still mostly angle flat and even the new lie flats are not all-aisle-access.

BA - not a fan of their business class config. Much more cramped than CX.

JAL - do you sleep well @ 82+ F? If so they are great.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:09 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 11):


With only 1.5hrs flight time (HKG - TPE), to serve an entire 777's or 747's meal with such short time would be difficult, VA only serves drinks on LAS - SFO in Y class and warm nuts in F class, while I agree it should be served regardless of need, one has to wonder if meal was provided, would that increase the fare premium since it uses more fuel for carrying such and price to make them? And would service level suffer due to rush to complete meal service?

You also know HKG-TPE the only 10 top busiest routes globally (exc-US) that is international ? CX flies 3-class F on some of the frequencies between the 2 cities (and actually offer INTL F-level service). But you'll have to go back in history to understand the unique dynamics of this route (on top of its large O&D) :

1. Historical weakness in CI's reputation made CX the *de facto* carrier for many Taiwanese passengers (the way SQ does for Indonesia or ME3 does for India)

2. Due to previous lack of air service agreements between PROC and ROC, HKG was the best airport to provide transit between the huge demand of the "2 shores". NRT was a big detour, and SEL/GMP wasn't on people's radar.

3. Taiwan and HKG are the only 2 large locales (plus MFM) where Traditional Chinese is the official language
 
CXoneworld
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:42 pm

Congratulations. Cathay has been one of my favourite airlines for more than a decade and remains so.

One point that seems to be frequently overlooked by the travelling public is that the quality of airlines should be more objectively viewed by a basket of factors, such as network reach, reliability, safety, ground service experience, product innovation, FFP benefits, etc. -- not merely inflight catering.

I am writing this at a hotel in Singapore, just having got off from a CX flight from Hong Kong -- CX715 to be precise -- in the cattle class and am sufficiently happy with what I've got. The flight was uneventful and punctual, consistently I find the CX lounges at HKIA a good place to chill out, the FFP programme by CX is straight-forward and generous. My MOP status allows me to reserve an extra leg room seat in advance online with no extra cost. Inflight comfort on CX could be hit-and-miss, but it is always within expectation.
oneworld alliance revolves around you
 
9w748capt
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:49 pm

Cathay's rep is well deserved IMO. I'm reminded of last year when I flew LAX-HKG-SIN on CX (in cattle class no less). In-flight service was fine, not great. Food wasn't horrible but not great. Seat standard Y, of course as oneworld ruby I picked an exit row for free which made it a bit nicer. Nice IFE selection. Where they really shined was on the ground - we were late into HKG, so a 1 hr connection became extremely tight. A CX rep met us at the gate and escorted us through security, ensuring we made our connection. Bags made it too. If this had been AA the flight would've closed early and they wouldn't have given two s***s.

[Edited 2014-07-15 11:50:26]
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:57 pm

No matter what the service is, I feel safe on board a CX plane. I do not get the same feeling from many many other carriers. That is the most important thing. Whether I get a big meal, fewer movies to choose from, a PTV 2 inches less than the competition really is not that important.

Congrats to CX, even though I have to admit I am also surprised.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 4):
We all know that Skytrax is not exactly a real indication of quality, the "support" airlines made to skytrax is more important than the real facts.

Agree. As soon as I see the word "Skytrax" I stop reading any further.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:01 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 16):
No matter what the service is, I feel safe on board a CX plane.

I second this. CX is one of the very few Asian carriers on which I would fly without hesitation.

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 9):

Then how do they justify the fare premium they charge ex-HKG?

They don't have to justify it. If people pay a premium, then clearly they see value in it.

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 2):

so what's the best airline of north america? delta again ?

Air Canada, for the fifth year in a row.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
planemanofnz
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 11):
With only 1.5hrs flight time (HKG - TPE), to serve an entire 777's or 747's meal with such short time would be difficult

Yet SQ manages to do it.

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 11):
While I stated many arguments, Skytrax isn't specific about which category CX is "best" at. If overall scoring includes booking experience, airport and ground service, lounge service and amenities, inflight service and amenities, I think CX has done an amazing job.

The only thing you list which CX may be better at is the booking experience (SQ's website is awful). Aside from that, the HKG and SIN airport experiences are equal, as are the lounges.

Then it goes to the actual inflight experience - SQ's PTV's are bigger, the seats are wider (at least up-front) and the meals are greater in portion (and in quality IMO). Furthermore, SQ clearly trumps CX on the amenities front by offering individual kits in Y.

Quoting CXoneworld (Reply 14):
One point that seems to be frequently overlooked by the travelling public is that the quality of airlines should be more objectively viewed by a basket of factors, such as network reach, reliability, safety, ground service experience, product innovation, FFP benefits, etc. -- not merely inflight catering.

Nobody was suggesting just inflight catering be looked at? Ultimately, the meal aspect (or lack thereof) needs to be taken in tandem with CX's continued use of a 'shell-seat' in Y and its continued use of very old 744's and 343's to understand that in reality, CX is not the best airline in the world.

Even if critics say 'oh, but the old planes and the crappy seats are being phased out', well, they haven't been phased yet. Give CX 'Airline of the Year' 2015 or 2016, but to give it to them in 2014, when so much of their product is still inconsistent, is wrong IMO.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 16):
Whether I get a big meal, fewer movies to choose from, a PTV 2 inches less than the competition really is not that important.

Safety is important. But dozens of airlines are safe. How else do you distinguish one from the other? The meal size, the movie selection and the PTV size are important; they help to separate an 'airline of the year' from the rest of the crowd.
 
flyenthu
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:01 am

Never flown CX, but have flown on SQ, QR, and EK, all ultra long hauls in Y, and I would rate SQ product best at least among SQ, QR, and EK. QR is great too, but they don't have the Singapore Girl. What ingenious branding! EK, while obviously in great company, have very crowded Y product in 777s. May be the A380s will compensate the 3-4-3 issue. Need to fly CX one of these days.
 
davidho1985
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:30 am

Can not agree with it, espcially for the services onboard regional routes of CX

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3735/11027441783_a4e3649bd6_o.jpg

The meal onboard "Airline Of the Year"   while most airlines serves a full hot meal onboard HKG-TPE

p.s. photo from http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trip-...398-taipei-cathay-dragonair-2.html

plus my recent flight onboard a 772 to Beijing,
how tiny the PTV is (and the seat move backwards automatically)
https://scontent-b-hkg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10477417_10203918202064545_6093132735991970052_n.jpg
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:44 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Quoting pasu129 (Reply 11):
With only 1.5hrs flight time (HKG - TPE), to serve an entire 777's or 747's meal with such short time would be difficult

Yet SQ manages to do it.

CX do it as well. Those lunchboxes are on certain flights depending on the time of day only.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 16):
Whether I get a big meal, fewer movies to choose from, a PTV 2 inches less than the competition really is not that important.

Safety is important. But dozens of airlines are safe. How else do you distinguish one from the other? The meal size, the movie selection and the PTV size are important; they help to separate an 'airline of the year' from the rest of the crowd.

Lots of airlines are safe according to stats. That doesn't mean I FEEL safe. I could probably fly China Airlines for thousands of years before I was involved in an accident but that doesn't mean I don't feel nervous. Many passengers have the same sentiment. It isn't about reality, it is about perception, and having a western crew accounts for a lot. I hear this exact thing from many of my friends who fly CX for business and pleasure.

Fact is, whether you guys feel it is justified or not, CX charge what they charge and our load factors are high. The airline does well and is consistently one of the more profitable airlines in the world. The airline is highly respected and whether you believe this is deserved or not, it is the truth. Question it all you like, but it is what it is.
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:00 am

I have a question on the topic: there is a lot of talk about China being this fast growing, lucrative air travel market, and Chinese airlines certainly do not have a strong reputation for offering premium service. So why is it that both CX and SQ dump their oldest birds on their China routes? Wouldn't they want to use their newest planes with new amenities on those routes and use older equipment to more price-sensitive routes?
 
SR 103
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:19 am

It is interesting that you are so passionate about SQ. As someone who has flown both products pretty recently in both Y (regionally) and J (long haul), let me give you some insight.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
The only thing you list which CX may be better at is the booking experience (SQ's website is awful).

Agreed!

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Aside from that, the HKG and SIN airport experiences are equal, as are the lounges.

I agree that HKG and SIN as airports are relatively equal. However I cannot agree with the statement about the lounges. SQ lounges tend to be bland and closed in (no windows), even their flagship T3 in SIN. CX has more open spaces which makes it bright and airy. Now I am not saying SQ's lounges are garbage, far from it. However if you insist on comparing the two, as someone who uses both, my preference goes for CX lounges as I find it suites my tastes much better.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Then it goes to the actual inflight experience - SQ's PTV's are bigger, the seats are wider (at least up-front)

You do realize that wider does not always equal more comfortable right? I do not like the fact that I have to get up and flip my J seat over so that I can sleep. I much prefer to watch a movie after meal is done and and then just press a button to make it flat. Having to get up when I am half asleep to flip a seat over is absurd and not very premium. CX’s J seat wins hands down for me.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
the meals are greater in portion (and in quality IMO).

You are right when it comes to economy, SQ shines regionally in Asia. Better meals with better IFE. However on long haul SQ's J meals are not all that great in quality. Sure you can serve it on a big plate, but what’s the point if it tastes pretty average? CX may have slightly smaller portions in J, but in my opinion they taste a whole lot better.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
Furthermore, SQ clearly trumps CX on the amenities front by offering individual kits in Y.

Yet SQ does not offer an amenity kit in J which CX does so clearly CX trumps SQ! (We can do this all day!)

I think you should separate out your comparison between J and Y appropriately rather than picking and choosing which one makes SQ sound better. It’s great that you are such a fan of SQ, but maybe that fact is preventing you from seeing things in an un-bias way?

I for one much prefer Malaysian’s and Garuda’s cabin crew while Thai Airways’ ground experience (BKK F Class lounge) is my favorite. Oman Air’s business class seat is amazing as well and Emirates’ IFE is second to none. There is a whole world of airlines out there to experience and I assure you, while SQ is one of the top airlines, they are far from perfect.

At the end of the day this is Skytrax, it doesn’t really matter as a lot of questions have been raised about the techniques they use to award these prizes.

[Edited 2014-07-15 23:45:14]
 
flythere
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:24 am

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 8):
Then how do they justify the fare premium they charge ex-HKG? Regardless of whether it's needed or not, this is still inferior to the competition in the region.

Whether the premium is justifiable is defined by who and how many people would love to pay for it. People seem to be very content with it based on CX's recent passenger numbers and traffic. And just as many others here have said, there are a number of factors that could be taken into account, not solely on a catering arrangement on certain sectors.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 19):
CX's continued use of a 'shell-seat' in Y

Those shell-seats are transferring gradually to their regional fleet where short-haul pax emphasize more on personal space and inflight entertainment than sleep comfort. They should have done so a while ago and it's good to see such a move.

[Edited 2014-07-16 01:28:37]
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:43 am

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 24):
Yet SQ does not offer an amenity kit in J
Quoting SR 103 (Reply 24):
I cannot agree with the statement about the lounges.
Quoting SR 103 (Reply 24):
However on long haul SQ's J meals are not all that great in quality.
Quoting SR 103 (Reply 24):
I think you should separate out your comparison between J and Y appropriately rather than picking and choosing which one makes SQ sound better.

My apologies. I have not flown in J on either airline, so all I can go by are photos and reviews. I accept your point about amenity kits in J and your preference for CX's J lounges. It is interesting that you dislike SQ's meals in J - have you tried 'Book the Cook'?

I also agree that width does not always equal comfort, and indeed SQ's latest J seat has a reduced width. I have heard raving reviews about the new CX J seat, but I have heard just as many positive reviews about SQ's hard product in J too.

One point which distinguishes SQ from CX for me is that of consistency. I know both airlines have endured inconsistencies in J, with CX's herringbone seat and SQ's spacebed seat still being in limited use. SQ addressed this by upgrading their 777-200ER's; CX hasn't done the equivalent. Ultimately, the new product which you prefer is not found on several key routes like FCO, AMS, CDG and AKL; this cannot be overlooked in a debate about who is the top airline in the world.

I would also just note that both airlines have recently introduced new regional J offerings and that SQ's product has a greater pitch, width and screen size, though these do not necessarily equal greater comfort, as you have mentioned.

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 24):
It’s great that you are such a fan of SQ, but maybe that fact is preventing you from seeing things in an un-bias way?

My preference for SQ definitely comes from being a regular Y passenger on both airlines. All I can tell you from my experience is that if I fly on SQ in Y, I get:
- Actual meals on all short-haul flights over 1 hour
- Larger meal portions on long-haul flights (which are, IMO, tastier)
- A larger television screen (11.1" on SQ v 9" on CX)
- A separate, more detailed booklet on entertainment options (as opposed to a mere in-flight magazine)
- Amenity kits on long-haul flights
- No risk of having a shell/non-reclining seat
- A more modern aircraft (CX's average fleet age is 10 years; SQ's is just 7 years)

Quoting flythere (Reply 25):
People seem to be very content with it based on CX's recent passenger numbers and traffic.

That's one way of looking at it. Another perspective is that CX has merely benefited from HKG's proximity to China which has grown at a far faster pace than the ASEAN region has over the past 5 years.

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 22):
Lots of airlines are safe according to stats. That doesn't mean I FEEL safe.
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 22):
It isn't about reality, it is about perception, and having a western crew accounts for a lot.

These comments are loaded with prejudicial assumptions.

The fact of the matter is that CX did not win this award because of the amount of westerners it hires, nor did SQ lose the award because it hires comparatively fewer westerners.

[Edited 2014-07-16 02:47:03]

[Edited 2014-07-16 02:47:53]
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:50 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 26):
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 22):
Lots of airlines are safe according to stats. That doesn't mean I FEEL safe.
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 22):
It isn't about reality, it is about perception, and having a western crew accounts for a lot.

These comments are loaded with prejudicial assumptions.

The fact of the matter is that CX did not win this award because of the amount of westerners it hires, nor did SQ lose the award because it hires comparatively fewer westerners.

I never implied it won the award because of that. I'm not talking about the award now, I am talking about CX in general and why some people like it and are loyal to it. Each and every one of CX's passengers have a reason for choosing to fly them and I am just saying that despite the CX-bashing in some of the threads above, customers still flock to fly on us. Sure I am biased just as you clearly as to SQ. I am just giving some reasons of why people like CX. Many people love SQ as well. I am not debating that. Just some imply that CX does not deserve this award because of all the things they are talking about above. Maybe they're right, but at the end of the day, the profits are decent and the loads are decent and the airline is growing at a fairly rapid rate as compared to historical growth rates at CX. The numbers speak for themselves. CX will never please everyone and nor should they aim to but whatever they are doing, they are doing a decent job of it.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:03 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 27):

Sorry if I am coming across as 'CX-bashing' CX Flyboy! I was just surprised that CX managed to take out this award given my experiences travelling in Y, and that Skytrax itself has a customer-ranking of 3.5 stars for CX as opposed to 4.5 stars for SQ. Obviously CX is better than most airlines out there, and is particularly good in J and F (which I have little experience flying in).

In terms of your point about CX's profitability, part of this will come down to people accepting and seeking out CX's product. However, this is not to be overstated, and I still maintain that CX's profitability over the past 5 years is in part, a reflection of HKG's proximity to China and China's comparatively faster pace of economic growth.
 
trent1000
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:05 am

Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
Announced by Skytrax:

Well there goes the thread from the start. Oh please...

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 3):
Take SQ and a Y class comparison as one example:
- Larger PTV's.
- Larger meals.
- Amenity kits.

On which routes?? Australia to SIN - NO amenities kit in Y. SIN to Aus in Y you might get 1. a pair of socks and 2 . a toothbrush/paste. No eye mask, ear plugs... depends on what your definition of 'amenities kit' is. Depends if it means 'useable items'...

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 21):
Can not agree with it, espcially for the services onboard regional routes of CX

Thanks for posting those godawful pics. Reality bites. This exposes the farce that is Skytrax.
 
CX Flyboy
Posts: 6164
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 1999 6:10 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:09 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 28):
I still maintain that CX's profitability over the past 5 years is in part, a reflection of HKG's proximity to China and China's comparatively faster pace of economic growth.

Of course, that is without a doubt. CX benefits from being on the doorstep of China. As a company you make the most of the opportunities around them. Some manage to do that better than others. Hong Kong Airlines for example isn't making a very good job of it so far and the Chinese airlines themselves who are immersed in the fast pace of economic growth more than any other airline aren't making a very good job of it either. CX makes a good job of it and it is down to the quality of the airline rather than pure geographic fortune. I think gone are the days that a mediocre airline can do well financially just by being there. To do well you have to be strong.
 
flythere
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:18 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 26):

Quoting flythere (Reply 25):
People seem to be very content with it based on CX's recent passenger numbers and traffic.

That's one way of looking at it. Another perspective is that CX has merely benefited from HKG's proximity to China which has grown at a far faster pace than the ASEAN region has over the past 5 years.

It's just a blunt and mere speculation by saying CX benefits merely on Hong Kong's proximity to China without looking into CX's traffic breakdown.

Based on CX's June 2014 traffic hot off the press, mainland China grew by only 2.7% yoy, and such a low single-digit growth has been the case for a couple of years. The main driving force for recent traffic surge is the North East Asia, Americas and Oceania. It's not all about China IMHO. It's about getting the right product to the right customers at a right price.

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_H...traffic-figures-for-June-2014.html

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 26):
These comments are loaded with prejudicial assumptions.

The fact of the matter is that CX did not win this award because of the amount of westerners it hires, nor did SQ lose the award because it hires comparatively fewer westerners.

I guess CX Flyboy had never intended to draw a comparison between CX and SQ.
He's merely speaking of his opinion towards CX.
No matter how harsh the reality is for a SQ-die-hard fans, with all respect, there are goods in both airlines and this time CX wins from the perspective of Skytrax and all the voters behind it.
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:33 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 22):
Lots of airlines are safe according to stats. That doesn't mean I FEEL safe. I could probably fly China Airlines for thousands of years before I was involved in an accident but that doesn't mean I don't feel nervous. Many passengers have the same sentiment. It isn't about reality, it is about perception, and having a western crew accounts for a lot.

Safety is based on the cabin crew being westerners?
This is just ridiculous and abominable in this day and age to think something like that.
And by the way, if you want to base safety on factors that are actually correlated, like maintenance and pilot experience, SQ would win by all accounts.
 
AirNiugini
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:34 am

Very well done CX.

I have had a look at the World Airline Awards website now and am confused about the ratings and criteria weightings. If you have a look at Individual categories, Cathay Pacific does not necessarily take the top 3 spots.

For example, when looking at the cabins.

Best First Cabin - SQ (CX in 5th place)
Best Business cabin - QR (CX in 2nd place)
Best Premium Econ cabin - NZ (CX in 6th place)
Best Economy cabin - OZ (CX in 5th place)

Im not saying that CX is not worthy of the title, I am just interested in how #1 is decided?  
Its time to fly!
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:48 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 32):
Safety is based on the cabin crew being westerners?
This is just ridiculous and abominable in this day and age to think something like that.

I never said that. I said it is about perceptions. For example when family friends and middle aged relatives book on an Asian airline, they phone me up to ask me if that airline is safe. If they book BA or Lufthansa etc, I do not get that phone call. Also just to clarify it is pilots that people are concerned about. Granted, much of the traveling public don't seem to care who the pilots are but there is a significant portion of people I have spoke to who take a lot of comfort in thinking that CX have western pilots. Fact is, a large portion are locals but many passengers like the western image of CX. Ridiculous? Maybe, but remember most passengers don't know what aircraft type they are on. They are not experts in flying and know little about the processes that go on. They just think they know what kinds of airlines are safe and what they think is not what reality is but thats irrelevant.
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:55 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 31):
Based on CX's June 2014 traffic hot off the press, mainland China grew by only 2.7% yoy, and such a low single-digit growth has been the case for a couple of years.

The figures you cite solely relate to flights and take no account of "an increase in leisure and business travel to the Pearl River Delta in southern China", or land traffic between HKG and those regions of Southern China close to HKG, which don't require connecting flights from HKG.

See: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26540669

Also note that for 2013, "Revenue by point of sale was either flat or down in every market except Hong Kong and mainland China, which Cathay attributed to ... demand out of China."

See: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ack-on-track---but-to-where-157701

Also see: http://www.swirepacific.com/en/media/press/p140312.pdf
 
flythere
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:30 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 35):

You are right that there are increasing passengers from the Pearl River Delta regions. Yet, despite the additional several-hour connection to HKG, these passengers are the ones who give up the alternatives of CAN or MFM by paying the 'premium' you mentioned. If CX can capture that market well, that means they have the right product and pricing, no matter how hard you try to distinguish pax origins from one another, at the end of the day they are happy to pay for that. SQ got a different catchment area to CX on the contrary. And I wont say 5.2% GDP growth of ASEAN is that low as you implied. Please do not sour grape for it's an endless debate to compare apple to orange.

[Edited 2014-07-16 04:44:43]
 
chrisrad
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:36 am

I think the highlight here is how far Garuda Indonesia have come in so few years. 7th in Airline of the year, 1st in Cabin Crew, 9th in First class product, 8th in Business class product. 3rd in Economy.
Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:03 pm

Quoting flythere (Reply 36):
give up the alternatives of CAN or MFM

Let's be clear flythere, CAN, SZX and MFM are hardly one-for-one 'alternatives' to HKG; many people from the Pearl River Delta fly from HKG out of necessity, not because CX has the best product.

For example, you can't even fly out of Asia from MFM, and the only flight from SZX to a destination outside of Asia is the 1x weekly MRU service introduced by CZ less than a month ago.

In terms of CAN, CZ has added new services in recent years but many gaps remain. If one wants to go to the likes of SFO, JNB or ZRH, then flying from HKG is the only option which will not involve two flights.

The fact of the matter is that CX has benefited from HKG's proximity to the fast-growing China, and to suggest its profits are being made solely because of a superior product offering is naive.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:27 pm

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 38):
suggest its profits are being made solely because of a superior product offering is naive.

I don't think ANY airline can say their profits are "solely" attributable to a single thing!
 
wowpeter
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:15 am

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 32):
Safety is based on the cabin crew being westerners?
This is just ridiculous and abominable in this day and age to think something like that.
And by the way, if you want to base safety on factors that are actually correlated, like maintenance and pilot experience, SQ would win by all accounts.

Quite the contrary actually... Look up the statistic yourself if you want raw numbers... SQ are quite far down the list, especially with their recent events in Vietnam, Brussels, plus the rather old major accident in Taipei... The last time CX actually have a castrotophic accident is back in the 70s I think... In the past 35 years, there has never been anything castrotophic that represent any aircraft lost... The last major incident that CX had encounter is CX780 emergency landing in HKG due to fuel contamination and you will see that the final report, it has clear CX and the crew for any fault and that crew was awarded the IALPA highest awards for saving the lives of everyone and bring what would otherwise a major castatrotophy into an safe landing. All of theses adds up to CX having a reputation of being an extremely safe airline... From personal experience, most of the family member that I know will prefer and pay more to fly CX because of that same safety reputation...

However, I am not here to bash SQ not safe... Dis-spite of all SQ incident and accident, SQ is still consider a very safe airline... And I will fly with them anytime... But safety is not just about statistic, it is also about perception... So it is unfortunate that SQ are no longer consider to be in the same league in that regards... Nowadays, CX safety is probably often compare to Air New Zealand, FinnAir, and Qantas which are often rated as some of the safest operations in the world statistically speaking... Although some will argue abou Qantas statistic...

Anyway, safety from passenger point of view, it all about perception and not about raw data... People don't go search out the statistic before they book a plane ticket, they book it based on their perception, and in this regards, CX are regard as one of the safest carriers in the world nowadays.
 
wowpeter
Posts: 86
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:37 pm

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 38):
The fact of the matter is that CX has benefited from HKG's proximity to the fast-growing China, and to suggest its profits are being made solely because of a superior product offering is naive.

But that is exactly why you are wrong...

CX is indeed capturing the market because the product offering in CAN is so poor... Many mainland Chinese student that study overseas or their family who go visit them in Australia, UK or North American will rather is inconvenient and get out of their way to fly CX in Hong Kong then flying China Southern direct from CAN to sydney, London or North American, exactly because CX product is better... CX is capturing these premium high yield traffic because CX indeed offer better product to these customers... CX is not looking at the low yield pax who would other wise just fly thier local domestic airlines direct to their respective area, those are not profitable from CX point of view.

As for other people who comment and often compare SQ to CX... A few things I want to point out, SQ have horrible hard product consistency between regional (or what SQ define as regional) vs long haul products... A lot of people compare SQ Y to CX Y... But I am more incline to compare area of travel... Where SQ will often use regional products to certain places in Australia, CX pretty much use solely long haul product for Australian flight... This alone allow CX to beat SQ for a long of the kangaroo or Australian to Asia travel...

As for North American flight, don't even get me started... CX simply is unmatched in terms of flight schedule and connectivity... SQ didn't even beep on the radar... CX Hong Kong connections and planning is simply unmatched by any carriers, with ground staff ready to identify and assist and escort passenger on tight connection, this allows CX to offer such short connection time that reduce travel time...

Service wise, often people say SQ crew offer better service... I simply disagree, I think it is matter of taste... SQ offer a robotic smiles while CX crew actually show genuine smiles and offer a very high quality efficient service.

Finally, every airline has their own fan boy, there is no doubt SQ fan boy often doubt CX service and vice versa... However both are top carries in the world and some people will prefer one over another... Does an airline have to obtain top marks in every category to be airline of the year? Not really... For me Airline of the year has to be airline that is the most rounded in all areas across their whole operations and both CX, or SQ (plus a few others) can be ranking in that league of airline that can achieve that any day and any of these airline can and will deserve to be airline of the year. So no need to be bitter about it really!
 
A388CC
Posts: 55
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:19 pm

That's really surprising, I would have put SQ or one of the middle Eastern airlines to have won. CX looks good but not amazing.
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 38):
Let's be clear flythere, CAN, SZX and MFM are hardly one-for-one 'alternatives' to HKG; many people from the Pearl River Delta fly from HKG out of necessity, not because CX has the best product.

For example, you can't even fly out of Asia from MFM, and the only flight from SZX to a destination outside of Asia is the 1x weekly MRU service introduced by CZ less than a month ago.

Very well said indeed! It is ridiculous to think of MFM, CAN as HKG alternatives. This is why BA is trailing behind all other airlines in China because they stubbornly think CAN flights would take away pax from HKG. Well, not gonna happen!

CAN has connecting KA flights to feed CX, and obviously is far superior to CZ and you would be surprised CX is is often much cheaper than CZ and other international airlines out of CAN, because the HKD has been very weak compared to the CNY for some years, which gives them a comparative advantage,

MFM only flies to regional airports, and international connections obviously are few, inconvenient and expensive, as Macau Airlines mostly caters to regional traffic.

SZX, well a few years ago I would fly there from mainland china and cross to HK. It made sense because it was cheaper and you could fly in from SHA instead of PVG. Now those advantages are gone. Quite a few and very cheap flights SHA-HKG if you want to avoid the long drive to PVG .
 
CXGabriel
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:26 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:02 pm

I think the challenge for all airlines is to deliver the product and services consistently everyday. I've seen the great, the good, the okay, the bad, and the terrible across all airlines. I've read all the posts here, and it seems like there're some SQ fans out there that think SQ is the greatest thing since slice bread. Well, let me quote from some comments from actual passengers review on SQ:

"The plane seemed to be extremely old and in need of upgrade. Flight SQ0324, Friday 6th June. In the past I have always praised Singapore Airlines for having more room in Economy than any other airline - I was evidently very wrong and I guess lucky in the past. I had bruises on my leg where I had squeezed out of my seat to go to the bathroom - the passenger in front had reclined his seat and I couldn't get out of my seat easily. Flight was so bad I cancelled my flight home with Singapore (and lost the money) rather than suffer that trip again, I flew back to Melbourne with Qatar."

"Flight SQ 308, 9th June 2014. The worst business Class seat, too wide, no support, hard as a rock. You can't sit comfortably in any position and it is pathetic to lie on. My back actually aching on arrival. Never again. Food lousy, choice too small, service without a smile and even then only when you asked. No pyjamas SIN to London and one meal served with no cloth at all. Used to be great. Flying back Emirates, and saving $1250 per seat on top."

"Singapore to Auckland, SQ281 777-200. Can't believe Singapore still use this aircraft, it desperately needs an overhaul, tiny 6 inch displays, no touch, even with full brightness I was struggling, switched to using my tablet instead. Seat rests do go fully up. Service was poor this time around, Food normally in economy is ok to good, this wasn't. Not a nice way to come back to NZ. will consider other options."

You'd find some bad reviews for CX as well, and that's my point. These rankings are just a sample of all the passengers flying everyday on each airline, and each flight experience would be different. But overall, those in the top 10 every year indicate that they have done a very nice job to deliver the product and services consistently (not perfect however). I think Emirates won last year, and they had some bad reviews too. Every year a different airline is honored, and I think that's fine. So, congratulations to Cathay Pacific, well done!
 
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VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting CXGabriel (Reply 44):
I think the challenge for all airlines is to deliver the product and services consistently everyday. I've seen the great, the good, the okay, the bad, and the terrible across all airlines

That is true, but both SQ and CX are no ordinary airlines. Legacies in US and EU can easily differentiate from domestic to long-haul. But what about CX and SQ? They have no domestic flights and use WB planes on erse route networks they serve.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:59 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 45):
But what about CX and SQ? They have no domestic flights and use WB planes on erse route networks they serve.

They HAVE completely owned regional subsidiaries in the form of Dragonair and Silk/Tiger that do narrow bodies and short-haul regional routes to lesser destinations.

Their genius part comes from using completely different branding (instead of UA vs. UAX or AA vs. eAAgle), so when people review them as an airline, only the good parts are reviewed.
 
malioil
Posts: 148
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RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:30 pm

My favourite airline, very, very well deserved.
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:36 am

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 41):
CX is indeed capturing the market because the product offering in CAN is so poor
CX is capturing some of the market because the connectivity out of CAN is so poor, not necessarily because CX's product offering is superior.

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 41):
get out of their way to fly CX in Hong Kong then flying China Southern direct from CAN to sydney, London or North American, exactly because CX product is better

It's not 'out of their way' - more often than not, flying through HKG is the most direct way.

As one example:
- You can fly to 2 destinations in North America from CAN (3 from next month).
- You can fly to 8 destinations in North America from HKG.

So again, it's not all about CX's allegedly amazing product; a lot of it has to do with connectivity.

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 41):
CX is capturing these premium high yield traffic

Hold on, I thought you just said the people flying through HKG were "mainland Chinese student that study overseas or their family who go visit them" - these people sound very VFR/low-yielding to me.

Indeed, such VFR/low-yielding passengers do fly CX because, as VCEflyboy rightly pointed out in reply 43, not only is HKG better connected, but CX is often cheaper than CZ or other airlines out of CAN (thanks to a weak HKD); they do not necessarily pick CX because the product is as good as you say.

Higher-yielding pax also fly out of HKG - partly as it saves time having a train-flight routing as opposed to having two flights - and partly as many of these pax have business to do in HKG anyway. Obviously some prefer CX's comparatively better J class to CZ's, but CZ is not a high benchmark to go by.

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 41):
Where SQ will often use regional products to certain places in Australia, CX pretty much use solely long haul product for Australian flight

Have you looked at the geography? As one example, it's 5 hours SIN-PER, but it's 8 hours HKG-PER; fewer passengers need a flat bed to sleep on for 5 hours, whereas for 8 hours, it's a different story. On 7-8 hour routes like SIN-SYD and SIN-MEL, it is annoying that SQ do sometimes use the 333, but they also use the 77W and 380 too.

In Y, the hard product is the same between the 333 and 77W/380.

Even if you disagree about SQ, you can't deny that CX is just as bad with consistency. On AKL-HKG (12 hours long), CX use the shell-seat and the herringbone seat - both of which, as pointed out in reply 25, are now 'regional' products for CX. CX has also used regional products to the likes of the Middle East.

Quoting wowpeter (Reply 41):
As for North American flight, don't even get me started... CX simply is unmatched in terms of flight schedule and connectivity... SQ didn't even beep on the radar
CX and SQ have their own connectivity strengths. CX beats SQ in North America but SQ beats CX in Europe, serving double the destinations (14 for SQ, 7 for CX). Note also that SQ serve all 6 continents. Ultimately, if connectivity was the be all and end all of these awards, EK, KE and TK would win.

Quoting CXGabriel (Reply 44):
Well, let me quote from some comments from actual passengers review on SQ
Quoting CXGabriel (Reply 44):
You'd find some bad reviews for CX as well, and that's my point

CXGabriel, it's all well and good for you to cite a handful of isolated comments to support your argument that SQ has just as many issues as CX does, but you should check out Skytrax's customer review summary - with around 1500 reviews for each airline, SQ has been given a 90% (4.5/5 star) ranking, while CX has only been given a 70% (3.5/5 star) ranking. That speaks for itself.

[Edited 2014-07-16 22:42:53]
 
wowpeter
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:15 am

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:11 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 48):
Hold on, I thought you just said the people flying through HKG were "mainland Chinese student that study overseas or their family who go visit them" - these people sound very VFR/low-yielding to me.

You clearly don't understand the demographic... The students who can afford to study overseas generally means their parents are multimillion or even billionaires... Look at all the recent articles of Chinese student in the US are the number one driving force of luxury car sales in US college town.

These are the exact type of hidden high yield passenger that CX capture so well. CX is not an airline that go hunt for low yield pax, look at the CX aircraft you will know that over 50% of each aircraft type in terms of floor area (maybe the exception of 777 regional config) are design to cater high yield passenger (F, J, PEY)... This is one of the highest out of most carriers...

Anyway, if you want more numbers and statistic, I will post more later tonight when I get home! But do go do some research before you argue my point is not valid!
 
SR 103
Posts: 1621
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: Cathay Pacific Airline Of The Year

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 48):
In Y, the hard product is the same between the 333 and 77W/380.

You forgot about J again, where there is a big difference between the 333/773 and the others.

Quoting planemanofnz (Reply 48):
On AKL-HKG (12 hours long), CX use the shell-seat and the herringbone seat - both of which, as pointed out in reply 25, are now 'regional' products for CX. CX has also used regional products to the likes of the Middle East.

CX no longer uses regional aircraft to the Middle East, yet SQ continues to do so. I would much rather fly DXB-HKG with a flatbed than the angled J seat SQ continues to use on 333.

You’re arguing that CX does not deserve the Skytrax award but you do realize EK won it last year! As someone who flies EK on a regular basis, EK winning airline of the year is laughable. Skytrax is a joke and your continued questioning of the award only makes me wonder why you are putting so much emphasis on it?

At the end of the day, both airlines are excellent and each has its strengths and weaknesses. For economy travel I would probably prefer SQ, but when it comes to business class I would much prefer CX. Maybe that’s why CX is so successful, because business travellers pick them over the competition? Maybe that’s why CX won, the high end business traveller probably rated them higher and I believe those are the ones Skytrax surveyed.


What exactly did CX do to you to make you detest them with such passion?

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