Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Dash9
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:40 pm

Delta confirms plan to get CS100 regardless of current legal dispute between Bombardier and Boeing
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... rk-439306/

And another confirmation by Swiss and Air Baltic that their CS100 and CS300 have better reliability and performance than expected.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ce-439012/
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:40 pm

Swiss has started CS100 trials at London City Airport:

http://atwonline.com/airframes/swiss-cs ... city-debut
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
N837MH
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:23 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:01 pm

Hello
I have some news about KAL's CS300.
First Delivery Aircraft is HL8092. It will be delivery at September or October.
Second Delivery Aircraft is HL8093. It will be delivery at October.
Third Delivery Aircraft is HL8091. It will be delivery at November.
Forth Delivery Aircraft is HL7200. It will be delivery at November, too.
Fifth Delivery Aircraft is HL7201 It will be delivery at December.
Delivery Flight Route is YUL-ANC-CTS-GMP. Thank you very much.
Please, teach to me, KAL's CS300's MSN!
 
User avatar
tacobell101
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:41 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:09 pm

N837MH wrote:
Hello
I have some news about KAL's CS300.
First Delivery Aircraft is HL8092. It will be delivery at September or October.
Second Delivery Aircraft is HL8093. It will be delivery at October.
Third Delivery Aircraft is HL8091. It will be delivery at November.
Forth Delivery Aircraft is HL7200. It will be delivery at November, too.
Fifth Delivery Aircraft is HL7201 It will be delivery at December.
Delivery Flight Route is YUL-ANC-CTS-GMP. Thank you very much.
Please, teach to me, KAL's CS300's MSN!



Do you have a source?
 
N837MH
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:23 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:53 am

tacobell101 wrote:
N837MH wrote:
Hello
I have some news about KAL's CS300.
First Delivery Aircraft is HL8092. It will be delivery at September or October.
Second Delivery Aircraft is HL8093. It will be delivery at October.
Third Delivery Aircraft is HL8091. It will be delivery at November.
Forth Delivery Aircraft is HL7200. It will be delivery at November, too.
Fifth Delivery Aircraft is HL7201 It will be delivery at December.
Delivery Flight Route is YUL-ANC-CTS-GMP. Thank you very much.
Please, teach to me, KAL's CS300's MSN!



Do you have a source?


Of Course. KAL Crew said to me.
 
User avatar
angelopga
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:11 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:33 am

BT CS300 #6 YL-CSF just landed at RIX.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:10 am

angelopga wrote:
BT CS300 #6 YL-CSF just landed at RIX.


=>

Bombardier CS 300 55008 YL-CSF Air Baltic delivery 20jul17 YMX-RIX ex C-FOWY
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
angelopga
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:11 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:49 am

YL-CSF flying to ZRH as BT641
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:56 am

Yep, YL-CSF went straight into revenue service:

Riga. Today, on July 21, 2017, the Latvian airline airBaltic has set a new world record as its newest CS300 turnaround for the first commercial flight took only 50 minutes after delivery from Canada.


http://newsroom.aviator.aero/airbaltics ... ld-record/
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
airnorth
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:30 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:04 pm

With what we can see as a smooth EIS for Swiss and Baltic, and the confidence they show with the product, I am still at a loss that this has not turned into any new orders from new clients. Seems like a great plane for a lot of operators, and getting in early would guarantee slots, but, it just can't seem to get any traction.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:59 pm

airnorth wrote:
With what we can see as a smooth EIS for Swiss and Baltic, and the confidence they show with the product, I am still at a loss that this has not turned into any new orders from new clients. Seems like a great plane for a lot of operators, and getting in early would guarantee slots, but, it just can't seem to get any traction.


Early slots will be hard to plan for at the moment. There's an uncertain delivery schedule as we see how Bombardier manages the ramp up. And the slots certainly aren't disappearing quickly, so there's not much pressure to jump in line right now. There is also the long term reliability to be seen. Then there's Bombardier's ability to support a growing number of aircraft, especially with their finances, which while not dire at the moment are likely to remain shaky for several more years.

And there may also be some pricing complications created by the Boeing dumping filing.

I was also hoping a smooth EIS would shake loose a few more orders, but I wasn't holding out for a deluge. It's been disappointing that interest hasn't picked up, but it seems they have more to prove. They've got some traction. Hopefully soon that traction generates noticeable momentum.
 
User avatar
aerolimani
Posts: 1323
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:57 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
airnorth wrote:
With what we can see as a smooth EIS for Swiss and Baltic, and the confidence they show with the product, I am still at a loss that this has not turned into any new orders from new clients. Seems like a great plane for a lot of operators, and getting in early would guarantee slots, but, it just can't seem to get any traction.


Early slots will be hard to plan for at the moment. There's an uncertain delivery schedule as we see how Bombardier manages the ramp up. And the slots certainly aren't disappearing quickly, so there's not much pressure to jump in line right now. There is also the long term reliability to be seen. Then there's Bombardier's ability to support a growing number of aircraft, especially with their finances, which while not dire at the moment are likely to remain shaky for several more years.

And there may also be some pricing complications created by the Boeing dumping filing.

I was also hoping a smooth EIS would shake loose a few more orders, but I wasn't holding out for a deluge. It's been disappointing that interest hasn't picked up, but it seems they have more to prove. They've got some traction. Hopefully soon that traction generates noticeable momentum.

I agree with almost everything you've said here. The only point I disagree with is BBD's ability to support the CSeries aircraft in service. Between the DHC8 family + Q400, all the CRJ's, plus all the various bizjets, BBD has many aircraft in service all over the world. Their support network is widespread and well established. Of course, there can always be issues with suppliers, but every manufacturer can be affected by such problems.

Even if it hasn't prompted more orders, it is still very good to see Swiss and Baltic showing confidence in their aircraft. I too hope for more orders before too long.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:05 am

aerolimani, I'm not necessarily disagreeing. However, the CSeries brings Bombardier into closer competition with Boeing and Airbus, who have much more extensive support networks, and far more resources to throw at any problems that arise. Although things are going smoothly, even the best aircraft have mechanical issues from time to time that require manufacturer support, and as Bombardier ramps up production, they will be in a position of supporting more aircraft on more important routes than their prior trend, so they need to be ready for that. There is a potential disadvantage of scale there, too, because Boeing and Airbus have so many aircraft around the world that there's a very large number of AOG teams around the world, able to handle multiple simultaneous issues.

For what it's worth, some of the folks I've discussed the CSeries with who work for A and B have indicated their proven in-service support capabilities are one of sales strategies they're counting on to counter the CSeries. They may not have anything concrete to claim against Bombardier there, but they're hoping for Bombardier to stumble on that point.
 
neromancer
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:23 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:15 pm

iamlucky13 wrote:
For what it's worth, some of the folks I've discussed the CSeries with who work for A and B have indicated their proven in-service support capabilities are one of sales strategies they're counting on to counter the CSeries. They may not have anything concrete to claim against Bombardier there, but they're hoping for Bombardier to stumble on that point.


I'm no expert. But it seems Bombardier has been making significant recent investments in global service and support. And it's my understanding that their current service and support is one area that they are not considered weak in.

So while A and B might certainly use that strategy against the C-Series. It sounds like Bombardier has some good sound logic to counter it. http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... -workforce

The article is more in reference to their biz jet operations but that I would think could also be leveraged for their commercial operations as well.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10717
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:22 pm

IIRC the biggest issue with Bombardier's support is that is heavily concentrated in the US (because that is where most of the CRJs are) and to a lesser extent Europe. If they want the C Series to be a success Bombardier needs to boost their worldwide support network. Having great American support is useless for a Southeast Asian operator for example.
 
yyztpa
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:10 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:18 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Apparently Bombardier plans to deliver 5 CSeries aircraft in July:

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/5-cseries-s ... 54489.html

yyztpa wrote:
Is the Swiss' second CS300 to arrive before the two for Air Baltic?


According to the article above, yes. All 5 delivery dates are listed.


Unless something changes today, deliveries for July appear to be 3 with 55009 doing some test flights in week 4.

Did BBD provide updated guidance on 2017 deliveries at their last quarterly? Reaching a total of 30-35 by year end will be a long climb.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:23 pm

Bombardier says it sticks with its delivery guidance, with the bulk of the deliveries scheduled at the end of the year.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1582
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:38 pm

I saw 55015 active on FR24, last week; the activity was not clear, though: it looked like low-altitude low-speed flying around YMX… Looked to my ignorant eye more like an artefact of an avionics testing than an actual flight.
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20282
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:59 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Bombardier says it sticks with its delivery guidance, with the bulk of the deliveries scheduled at the end of the year.

I wish I knew more, but Bombardier is being consistent with repeating 30 to 35 in 2017. Here is a link from mid-June:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... y-schedule

Bummer all the combustors must be replaced in the engines (see above link). That is expensive! (Engine casing must be opened which means all the seals must be replaced.)

At least dispatch reliability seems good for a new type.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:01 pm

Work is underway at Delta's flight simulator for the upcoming CSeries aircraft:

Image
https://twitter.com/AirplaneGuy2013/sta ... 4420419584
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
JoeCanuck
Posts: 4704
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:30 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:24 am

lightsaber wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Bombardier says it sticks with its delivery guidance, with the bulk of the deliveries scheduled at the end of the year.

I wish I knew more, but Bombardier is being consistent with repeating 30 to 35 in 2017. Here is a link from mid-June:

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... y-schedule

Bummer all the combustors must be replaced in the engines (see above link). That is expensive! (Engine casing must be opened which means all the seals must be replaced.)

At least dispatch reliability seems good for a new type.

Lightsaber


I imagine they will swap in upgraded engines rather than forcing airlines to deal with the extra downtime of fixing and replacing engines.
What the...?
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:02 pm

A skeptical article about the CSeries production rate:

Bombardier still maintain today that they will deliver 30 C Series aircraft this year. But the delivery rate remains at two aircraft per month after eight months. And if it stays there any longer it will become increasingly difficult for Bombardier to meet their objectives.


http://www.fliegerfaust.com/c-series-pr ... 49946.html
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:38 am

Another airBaltic delivered:

Bombardier CS 300 55009 YL-CSG Air Baltic delivery 10aug17 YMX-RIX ex C-FPBD
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:43 am

An interesting Q and A with Bombardier's CSeries program manager about the operations from London City Airport.
https://www.airinsight.com/q-bombardiers-rob-dewar/

He actually discussed some factors of operations from LCY that influenced the design process for the CSeries. He also mentioned several other airports Bombardier apparently believe the CSeries is a good fit for.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:48 am

KarelXWB wrote:
A skeptical article about the CSeries production rate:

Bombardier still maintain today that they will deliver 30 C Series aircraft this year. But the delivery rate remains at two aircraft per month after eight months. And if it stays there any longer it will become increasingly difficult for Bombardier to meet their objectives.


http://www.fliegerfaust.com/c-series-pr ... 49946.html


My understanding is the lack of "gliders" is at least partially due to holding down the final assembly rate, but sub-assemblies are still being completed and stored until needed.

I can not authoritatively verify this information.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:41 pm

First Korean Air CS300 has been painted

Image
Image
Image

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 9578946560
 
DTWorld
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:34 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:01 pm

I was wondering about this one. I like it.
 
User avatar
MoKa777
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:00 pm

I am not sure if this has been asked or discussed already so please forgive me.

The CSeries uses a version of PW GTF.

The ones on the A320NEO have been causing some drama.

Are the CSeries' engines, likewise, also experiencing performance problems?

Also, I heard that part of the reason QR cancelled their A320NEOs was because of issues the GTF was having in hot, sandy conditions. Is that true?

If so, is the version of engines available on the CSeries also affected in the same way?

The CSeries, from what I understand, is only offered with GTF engines. Is this maybe one of the reasons that airlines are holding off on orders - a new aircraft type with a new technology engine and NO alternative conventional engine choice?
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:21 pm

This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.
 
User avatar
MoKa777
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:51 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.


At this point there are over 1600 replies.

If someone who knows and is willing and able to just briefly paraphrase what the conclusion is, that will be easier for me and anyone else who may have a similar question.

Maybe I'll have better luck with some searching. Thanks.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:23 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
If so, is the version of engines available on the CSeries also affected in the same way?


Yes CSeries engine could face similar problems, even Bombardier admitted that PW1500G powerplant requires upgrades.

We haven't seen issues on CSeries for the same reason we haven't seen problems on Lufthansa's A320neo fleet: European weather is not as harsh for the engine as Indian climate. Lufthansa, Swiss and airBaltic are operating in similar climate. Things could have been different if CSeries entered service in India or Dubai, for example.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
ikolkyo
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:43 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:28 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.


At this point there are over 1600 replies.

If someone who knows and is willing and able to just briefly paraphrase what the conclusion is, that will be easier for me and anyone else who may have a similar question.

Maybe I'll have better luck with some searching. Thanks.


Here is a quick run down, (I was talking about searching other threads. not this one). The big difference between the PW1500G and PW1100G is the mounting position that is causing some issues. I believe the PW1100G is mounted from the core while the PW1500G and other variants are mounted from the fan. Pratt believes this is what is causing a lot of issues the with the PW1100G engine and other variants aren't suffering as much. Both engines share some of the same issues but the PW1100G has a few unique ones. This thread provides some insight. viewtopic.php?t=776651
 
User avatar
MoKa777
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:34 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
If so, is the version of engines available on the CSeries also affected in the same way?


Yes CSeries engine could face similar problems, even Bombardier admitted that PW1500G powerplant requires upgrades.

We haven't seen issues on CSeries for the same reason we haven't seen problems on Lufthansa's A320neo fleet: European weather is not as harsh for the engine as Indian climate. Lufthansa, Swiss and airBaltic are operating in similar climate. Things could have been different if CSeries entered service in India or Dubai, for example.


ikolkyo wrote:
MoKa777 wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
This has been discussed to oblivion, do some searching.


At this point there are over 1600 replies.

If someone who knows and is willing and able to just briefly paraphrase what the conclusion is, that will be easier for me and anyone else who may have a similar question.

Maybe I'll have better luck with some searching. Thanks.


Here is a quick run down, (I was talking about searching other threads. not this one). The big difference between the PW1500G and PW1100G is the mounting position that is causing some issues. I believe the PW1100G is mounted from the core while the PW1500G and other variants are mounted from the fan. Pratt believes this is what is causing a lot of issues the with the PW1100G engine and other variants aren't suffering as much. Both engines share some of the same issues but the PW1100G has a few unique ones. This thread provides some insight. viewtopic.php?t=776651


Thanks guys. Just spent the last hour scouring through the 1000+ replies and found this same info, too. Thanks again, anyway.

viewtopic.php?t=776651 Informative thread link ikolkyo, thanks.

Beautiful, reliable aircraft. Can't wait for more orders and subsequent deliveries.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:11 am

Expect the next CS3 for LX being delivered within days. I see HB-JCC currently planned for commercial ops as per AUG 28th.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
Jetsouth
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:24 am

Bombardier forecast that they would deliver 30-35 Cseries jets this year. So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production. Bombardier just cannot seem to get its act together in getting its production to targeted levels. It also is having serious problems on its train side and is seriously lagging in its streetcar and train production. Perhaps money problems are causing slow production? I cannot see Bombardier landing serious orders for its CSeries until it gets its production problems resolved.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:19 pm

Err.....Jetsouth. I'm not sure under which rock you have been lately but the delays in delivery of the C-series are more down to the engine availability than the frame itself.
737MAX & 32SNEO see the same delays due to engine related issues....
It has absolutely nothing to do with BBD, their trains or their bankaccounts...... Do some research before posting such nonsense....
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
Nean1
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:20 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
Bombardier forecast that they would deliver 30-35 Cseries jets this year. So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production. Bombardier just cannot seem to get its act together in getting its production to targeted levels. It also is having serious problems on its train side and is seriously lagging in its streetcar and train production. Perhaps money problems are causing slow production? I cannot see Bombardier landing serious orders for its CSeries until it gets its production problems resolved.


BBD is probably learning that the experience curve in producing composite wings is far more challenging than for aluminum wings.
 
fbeaulie
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:51 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:58 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production..


It has delivered 10.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:22 pm

I would love to know what the real story is, whether it is engines (PW) or airframe (BBD) that are unable to ramp up production adequately.

Unfortunately, the aviation press seems to think that they are the marketing arm of the various producers, instead of merely reporting what is going on (or what is not in this case)



PS I've been lurking on Airliners.net for 15 or so years, this is my first post.
 
golfradio
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:35 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:27 pm

Nean1 wrote:
BBD is probably learning that the experience curve in producing composite wings is far more challenging than for aluminum wings.


The bottleneck definitely is not due to Belfast.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:56 pm

Does anyone know:

1) What the maximum theoretical output of the CSeries production system is?
2) What rate Bombardier is gearing up to?

All they've said is that they intend to deliver 30-35 by the end of the year, which it appears they clearly won't make.

I'd love to see more detail around this topic from anyone "in the know."
 
fbeaulie
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:51 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:21 pm

SteelChair wrote:
I would love to know what the real story is, whether it is engines (PW) or airframe (BBD) that are unable to ramp up production adequately.

Unfortunately, the aviation press seems to think that they are the marketing arm of the various producers, instead of merely reporting what is going on (or what is not in this case)

PS I've been lurking on Airliners.net for 15 or so years, this is my first post.


It seems that Bombardier is struggling a bit with "Chinese parts":

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-pro ... 89578.html
 
N212R
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:29 pm

SteelChair wrote:
I would love to know what the real story is, whether it is engines (PW) or airframe (BBD) that are unable to ramp up production adequately.

Unfortunately, the aviation press seems to think that they are the marketing arm of the various producers, instead of merely reporting what is going on (or what is not in this case)


There are fewer and fewer REAL stories being elucidated on Airliners. The agenda drivers and ambulance chasers are more numerous than ever.
 
Armaghman
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:34 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:03 pm

LOL - what a great use of term "ambulance chasers" . Couldn't put it better myself!


There are fewer and fewer REAL stories being elucidated on Airliners. The agenda drivers and ambulance chasers are more numerous than ever.[/quote]
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 pm

SteelChair wrote:
What the maximum theoretical output of the CSeries production system is?


10 aircraft / month at full rate with the current final assembly facility.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1244
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:27 am

Nean1 wrote:
Jetsouth wrote:
Bombardier forecast that they would deliver 30-35 Cseries jets this year. So far, it has delivered only 9 despite using all efforts to increase production. Bombardier just cannot seem to get its act together in getting its production to targeted levels. It also is having serious problems on its train side and is seriously lagging in its streetcar and train production. Perhaps money problems are causing slow production? I cannot see Bombardier landing serious orders for its CSeries until it gets its production problems resolved.


BBD is probably learning that the experience curve in producing composite wings is far more challenging than for aluminum wings.


Wing production is not the issue.

SteelChair wrote:
1) What the maximum theoretical output of the CSeries production system is?


There has been previous discussion of 10 per month:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... up-419427/

SteelChair wrote:
All they've said is that they intend to deliver 30-35 by the end of the year, which it appears they clearly won't make.


I believe they indicated at the beginning of the year that the deliveries would be heavily biased towards the second half. It's appearing less likely they'll actually hit 30, but it's not quite out of the question if they're stockpiling sub-assemblies while waiting on the bottlenecks to be resolved.

Ability to ramp up has been one of the known program risks that I suspect is holding up orders. Until Bombardier achieves their planned rate, potential new customers don't know when they'll be receiving their aircraft.

fbeaulie wrote:
It seems that Bombardier is struggling a bit with "Chinese parts":


This has been a problem since well before first flight. I would not be at all surprised to hear of some contractor changes.
 
wezgulf3
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:52 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:54 am

Does anyone know how many are parked waiting for Engines?

Wes..
 
SteelChair
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:37 am

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:27 am

To Iamlucky13 and fbeaulie, thanks for those replies.

If the problem is not wings, what is it?

I, too, would be interested to know how many completed airframes are sitting around....is PW finally ramping up engines?

It is interesting to think that the lack of production is holding up more orders. One would think, with A320 series and Boeing 737 series sold out basically for the next 3-4 years, that 10 a month would be an achievable target (even though the A320/B737 don't directly compete since they are bigger).

I'm hoping Bombardier is rewarded for the risk that they have taken in producing this revolutionary aircraft.

It would seem that the next customer to place a large order would be rewarded with delivery slots that might not be available otherwise.
 
Jetsouth
Posts: 369
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:41 pm

If it was the engines that is the holdup, then one would expect that the Bombardier facility would be loaded with engine-less CS100's and 300's stored awaiting engines. From what I understand, there are only 3 or 4 engine-less CS100's sitting around, and those were among the first production units.( Why these have been sitting there for so long (since at least the winter-time) is anyone's guess). So the question is, why is production not higher? Wings? "Chinese Parts?". or another reason. Or is production simply going to increase for the balance of the year so that 5 are going to be delivered in each of September, October, November and December, so that they can make at least the promised 30 deliveries this year?
 
jmt18325
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 6:08 pm

Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:24 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
If it was the engines that is the holdup, then one would expect that the Bombardier facility would be loaded with engine-less CS100's and 300's stored awaiting engines. From what I understand, there are only 3 or 4 engine-less CS100's sitting around, and those were among the first production units.( Why these have been sitting there for so long (since at least the winter-time) is anyone's guess). So the question is, why is production not higher? Wings? "Chinese Parts?". or another reason. Or is production simply going to increase for the balance of the year so that 5 are going to be delivered in each of September, October, November and December, so that they can make at least the promised 30 deliveries this year?


BBD isn't in a financial position to build a bunch of frames and have them sitting.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos