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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:55 pm

SteelChair wrote:
All they've said is that they intend to deliver 30-35 by the end of the year, which it appears they clearly won't make.


iamlucky13 wrote:
I believe they indicated at the beginning of the year that the deliveries would be heavily biased towards the second half. It's appearing less likely they'll actually hit 30, but it's not quite out of the question if they're stockpiling sub-assemblies while waiting on the bottlenecks to be resolved.


jmt18325 wrote:
BBD isn't in a financial position to build a bunch of frames and have them sitting.


Right now the production rate is 2 aircraft per month. Final assembly lead time is couple months. If Bombardier wants to deliver 30 aircraft this year, they need to increase production to rate 4 right now and store some aircraft until engines arrive. For some reason the rate increase is not happening.

Article on the matter:

http://www.fliegerfaust.com/c-series-pr ... 49946.html

Bombardier still maintain today that they will deliver 30 C Series aircraft this year. But the delivery rate remains at two aircraft per month after eight months. And if it stays there any longer it will become increasingly difficult for Bombardier to meet their objectives.

...

The most striking feature of the delivery rate is that it remains stable at two aircraft per month.

This is not normal because we are supposed to see a production ramp up at this stage. After all the C Series has been in service for more than a year now. But we don't see any progress at all. In fact the delivery rate has remained constant at two aircraft per month for six months in a row, as if C Series production was stuck in second gear.
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rbrunner
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:36 pm

When are further deliveries to LX going to happen?
 
DOHspotter
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Not sure how far correct is this info but according to this tweet Saudi Gulf airlines canceled their order of 16 CS300 and they are in talks with Airbus for 16 A320s instead.
http://twitter.com/AirlinesAnalyst/stat ... 2893407232
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:33 pm

So with Bombardier so behind in its deliveries, and no signs of ramp-up in production, how can any new, or even existing customer have any confidence in deliveries from them? Perhaps new airlines are reluctant to order when they have no idea when Bombardier can realistically deliver. It again raises the question: why is Bombardier not increasing production? A lack of funds? Delays in engine delivery? Problem with parts? Maybe that is the reason there are rumors that SaudiGulf may have cancelled its order, and the reason that many of the conditional orders for the jet have not firmed up?
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:37 pm

Jetsouth wrote:
If it was the engines that is the holdup, then one would expect that the Bombardier facility would be loaded with engine-less CS100's and 300's stored awaiting engines. From what I understand, there are only 3 or 4 engine-less CS100's sitting around, and those were among the first production units.( Why these have been sitting there for so long (since at least the winter-time) is anyone's guess). So the question is, why is production not higher? Wings? "Chinese Parts?". or another reason. Or is production simply going to increase for the balance of the year so that 5 are going to be delivered in each of September, October, November and December, so that they can make at least the promised 30 deliveries this year?


Well, since you're the one that made statements earlier, I guess I'd just pose the questions back to you?
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Viscount724
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:41 pm

DALCE wrote:
Expect the next CS3 for LX being delivered within days. I see HB-JCC currently planned for commercial ops as per AUG 28th.


An acceptance flight of the future HB-JCC included a visit to YUL on Wednesday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3zh-xTuwDI

It covered quite a bit of territory north of Mirabel.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... bz#e95655b
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:43 pm

HB-JCC has been delivered:

Bombardier CS 300 55012 HB-JCC Swiss International delivery 26jul17 YMX-ZRH ex C-FPBZ
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Viscount724
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:20 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
HB-JCC has been delivered:

Bombardier CS 300 55012 HB-JCC Swiss International delivery 26jul17 YMX-ZRH ex C-FPBZ


How could it have been delivered a month ago when it was making an acceptance flight at Montreal last Wednesday using its Bombardier registration C-FPBZ, per my reply immediately above yours?
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:23 am

Where are the aviation journalists? Why is there no information regarding what is actually going on?

This is extremely frustrating. For an industry that has drastically slowed down the introduction of all-new airplanes (only the 787 and A350 in the last 20 years), this is beyond ridiculous. Bombardier has a game changer and they can't get them built....they can't get more orders until they get more built.......its a catch 22.
 
JoeCanuck
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:23 am

Bombardier had stated, way back when, that the ultimate production rate goal for the CSeries was 20/month.

https://www.rjet.ca/blog/2012/01/05/bom ... and-plans/
What the...?
 
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c933103
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:36 am

Do we know when will KE get their first bird?
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:54 am

Viscount724 wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
HB-JCC has been delivered:

Bombardier CS 300 55012 HB-JCC Swiss International delivery 26jul17 YMX-ZRH ex C-FPBZ


How could it have been delivered a month ago when it was making an acceptance flight at Montreal last Wednesday using its Bombardier registration C-FPBZ, per my reply immediately above yours?


It's a typo and should have been August 26.

Here is HB-JCC at ZR:

Image
https://twitter.com/high98/status/901537061865476098
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Boeingphan
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:27 pm

Man they are pretty looking birds. I think once PW get their act together this will prove to be a phenomenal aircraft. Give it some time and time will bear this out.
 
fbeaulie
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:02 pm

DOHspotter wrote:
Not sure how far correct is this info but according to this tweet Saudi Gulf airlines canceled their order of 16 CS300 and they are in talks with Airbus for 16 A320s instead.
http://twitter.com/AirlinesAnalyst/stat ... 2893407232


Not sure about reliability of the information... To start with, their order is for 10, isn't it?

(Update - my mistake - in fact 16: http://www.bombardier.com/content/dam/W ... tus-en.pdf - "10" is for # of options)
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:29 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
Bombardier had stated, way back when, that the ultimate production rate goal for the CSeries was 20/month.

https://www.rjet.ca/blog/2012/01/05/bom ... and-plans/


Given that Airbus and Boeing are producing almost 100/month (combined) A320/737 services right now, the 20 should be achievable. That seems to be a realistic goal.
 
fbeaulie
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:38 pm

DOHspotter wrote:
Not sure how far correct is this info but according to this tweet Saudi Gulf airlines canceled their order of 16 CS300 and they are in talks with Airbus for 16 A320s instead.
http://twitter.com/AirlinesAnalyst/stat ... 2893407232


"Not true. No cancellation, says Bombardier Commercial Aircraft spokesman Bryan Tucker.": https://twitter.com/NickVanPraet/status ... 0759580678 (Quebec business correspondent for the Globe & Mail)

Thanks for having mentioned this tweet! Not easy to figure out that it is Cseries related!
 
iamlucky13
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:57 pm

JoeCanuck wrote:
Bombardier had stated, way back when, that the ultimate production rate goal for the CSeries was 20/month.

https://www.rjet.ca/blog/2012/01/05/bom ... and-plans/


That would be entirely contingent on sales, and not something they have made preparations for.

In the same time period, they were talking about hopes to win half the orders in a forecast ~6300 airframe market segment over 20 years, which would be 13/month.

Example:
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... wrap-19981
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:26 am

According to the ABCD list website, 55013 made it's first flight August 28.

http://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:18 am

55014 apparently made first flight August 2.

http://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:18 am

SteelChair wrote:
55014 apparently made first flight August 2.

http://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html


First flight September 2nd, not August 2nd
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:36 am

oops...thanks!
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:43 pm

Bombardier today claimed the CS300 beats its own 2016 brochure fuel spec by up to 3% on 2,250nm flights.

Additionally it mentioned first delivery to Korean Air will follow shortly, followed by CAAC certification.

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/LeehamNews
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BubbaYugga
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:42 pm

I can hardly wait to see ETOPS and what it'll do for sales in the Pacific.
I suspect it's an untapped market there.
 
runway23
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:59 pm

BubbaYugga wrote:
I can hardly wait to see ETOPS and what it'll do for sales in the Pacific.
I suspect it's an untapped market there.


Could the CS100/300 be a good 717 replacement for HA ? I mean just thinking of HA, they could cycle a CS between intra Hawaiian flying while at the same time send them to the west coast on thinner flights. This would result in a lower number of average cycles per frame.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:44 pm

runway23 wrote:
BubbaYugga wrote:
I can hardly wait to see ETOPS and what it'll do for sales in the Pacific.
I suspect it's an untapped market there.


Could the CS100/300 be a good 717 replacement for HA ? I mean just thinking of HA, they could cycle a CS between intra Hawaiian flying while at the same time send them to the west coast on thinner flights. This would result in a lower number of average cycles per frame.


I think that's a fair assumption. The GTF should technically be a good engine for short island hops as well as longer routes to the West Coast. But from what I've read, Hawaiian plans to keep their 717s flying for a good while.

And congrats to Bombardier for beating fuel burn targets! Hope we will see more orders soon.
 
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PW100
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:40 pm

Thanks Karel.

KarelXWB wrote:


This is the all important one. Momentum. This is what Bombardier needs, especially in deliveries. Good thing their marketing is focusing on this. Now production needs to follow.
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Meanwhile Bombardier sticks to its delivery target:

Bombardier acknowledges that the supply chain for the CSeries is not yet "harmonious" but for now remains committed to meeting the year-end delivery goal.

"There's going to be a lot of deliveries toward the end of the year for 2017," Ghanem says. "We're working to plan. In terms of suppliers, Pratt & Whitney is aligned to that production plan."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-441087/
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:21 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Meanwhile Bombardier sticks to its delivery target:

Bombardier acknowledges that the supply chain for the CSeries is not yet "harmonious" but for now remains committed to meeting the year-end delivery goal.

"There's going to be a lot of deliveries toward the end of the year for 2017," Ghanem says. "We're working to plan. In terms of suppliers, Pratt & Whitney is aligned to that production plan."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-441087/


Maybe the 3-4 CS100's they have in outside storage since the wintertime and some of the FTV's are going to be delivered to customers by the end of the year in order to meet the targeted 30-35 deliveries.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:54 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Meanwhile Bombardier sticks to its delivery target:

Bombardier acknowledges that the supply chain for the CSeries is not yet "harmonious" but for now remains committed to meeting the year-end delivery goal.

"There's going to be a lot of deliveries toward the end of the year for 2017," Ghanem says. "We're working to plan. In terms of suppliers, Pratt & Whitney is aligned to that production plan."


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -d-441087/


The article seemed to imply that delivery of engines from PW continues to be the limiting factor in increasing deliveries
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:28 am

Its now been almost a month since 55013 flew and 3 weeks since first flight on 55014. Man, these deliveries are SLOW. Does anyone the delivery dates for these aircraft, or when the next one off the production line will make first flight?
 
Dash9
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:25 pm

Flieger Faust published another production update recently based on rumors. He seem to have a good internal network at BBD
http://www.fliegerfaust.com/cseries-pro ... 74066.html
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:30 pm

Looks likr Flieger Faust is saying there will only be 22 CSeries deliveries this year, not the 30-35 deliveries that Bombardier has forecast. So far this month no CSeries have been delivered, although one may be delivered Monday or Tuesday.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:33 pm

Production has been really slow for this aircraft, it can’t all be on PW..
 
RJMAZ
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:58 am

Definitely a Pratt Issue 100%. Bombardier can't afford to build 20 frames waiting for engines like Airbus can.

Pratt has to fix the C series engine and the A320 engine. Which company do you think would get priority?

The engine fixes require a lot of unplanned engineering and testing. Pratt would have limited resources and would have allocated them to fix the PW1100g for Airbus first.

The Mitsubishi regional jet also had a major engine problem and the fleet was grounded last month. Embraer haven't had a problem yet but most likely Pratt will have to design and roll out fixes to all engines and integrate them into the production lines.

All of the engine production lines would be paused at some stage while fixes are introduced. So they then fall behind schedule and then have to catch up. Unless Pratt and its suppliers have a big surge capability it would take them a long time to catch up.

This is good news for Boeing and General Electric with their Leap powered 737. GE would not doubt have been ramping up production this entire time. Airbus will no doubt be shuffling delivery of LEAP powered aircraft forward so buyers who selected the LEAP engines could get them sooner. So GE would have a nice short term cashflow boost.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:00 am

 
DTWorld
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:29 am

Have any routes been announced from KE for the CSeries? I'm wanting to guess it will be some secondary markets in Japan and/or China.
 
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Clipper101
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:18 am

There is a table status of Bombardier C-Series Aircraft on Google & I am wondering how much it is up to date since when I saw the Korean C300 beauty on A.net today I noticed its status in this table as Assembly/pre-Assembly instead of pre-Flight Prep or Pre-Delivery:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1833107384
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:30 am

Man that KAL is a beauty!
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:14 pm

Isn't there supposed to be a CS300 delivered today (Sept 25th) to SWISS?
 
Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:36 pm

Does anyone know what is happening with CSeries deliveries? So far, as far as I am aware, no deliveries this month. I though one or two were supposed to be delivered over the past week?
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:03 pm

Bombardier doesn't seem to be very forthcoming....would love to know what's REALLY going om
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:49 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
A peek inside the assembly line:

That's a very nice pair awaiting completion. I hope they don't have a very fastidious executive overseeing the installation and complaining about the carpets and seat covers. :cheerful:
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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sergegva
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:03 pm

35 days without a single delivery. Only 11 aircraft delivered so far in 2017, versus 18 SSJ-100...
 
CRJ900
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:14 pm

The CS300 looks bigger with a splash of colour, like Korean's livery. Hope they will grace the skies soon.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:41 pm

Isn't it usual for a commercial airplane manufacturer to be "back loaded" with regard to deliveries in the year?

Having said that, it would be nice to see them kick a few out the door soon!
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:05 am

SteelChair wrote:
Isn't it usual for a commercial airplane manufacturer to be "back loaded" with regard to deliveries in the year?


True, except Bombardier did not increase the production rate in H1 2017 so there are simply net enough aircraft in final assembly to meet the delivery target.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
JulietteBravo
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:38 am

They are really slow. The long expected next (no. 4) CS300 for SWISS, HB-JBD is now finally en route on her ferry flight to Switzerland.

Does anyone know why that took so long?
 
dodoma
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:52 am

JulietteBravo wrote:
They are really slow. The long expected next (no. 4) CS300 for SWISS, HB-JBD is now finally en route on her ferry flight to Switzerland.

Does anyone know why that took so long?


Sure that it is HB-JCD? Only HB-JCE has been registered with the Swiss authorities.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 am

JulietteBravo wrote:
They are really slow. The long expected next (no. 4) CS300 for SWISS, HB-JBD is now finally en route on her ferry flight to Switzerland.

Does anyone know why that took so long?


HB-JBD is a CS100, not a CS300.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/hb-jbd
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