dodoma
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:00 am

So the CS300 currently en route to Zurich as LX5201 is HB-JCE? Flightradar doesn't show the registration.
 
JulietteBravo
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:09 am

Sorry for the confusion! I guess now en route is JCD (if they follow the Alphabet) . A CS300.

JBD is a CS100 and is in service for LX already.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:20 am

HB-JBx = CS100
HB-JCx = CS300

The one flying to ZRH as LX5201 is a CS300 aircraft, so should be in the HB-JCx range.
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JulietteBravo
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:22 am

dodoma wrote:

Sure that it is HB-JCD? Only HB-JCE has been registered with the Swiss authorities.


How come?
So it s JCE?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:32 am

Mixed reports on Twitter as well, some say it's HB-JCD while others say it's HB-JCE.

Based on registration database HB-JCE has been delivered, meaning HB-JCD has been overtaken for unknown reason.

Image
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Jetsouth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:36 pm

I would really like to know what is happening with CSeries deliveries. 11 delivered to the end of August, no deliveries in September, and perhaps one delivery to SWISS yesterday. There are many CSeries in production as per a recent report by Fliegerfaust. Bombardier said there would be 30-35 deliveries for 2017, so far deliveries are substantially below this level. Even the usually optimistic Fliegerfaust cannot see more than 22 deliveries this year. Obviously something is seriously delaying production. Is it engine deliveries again?
 
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:29 am

First Korean Air CS300 made its first flight yesterday.

Video:
https://youtu.be/ejN8QoTjdIU
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DALCE
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:57 am

This is HB-JCE, 100% sure about that ;)
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:38 pm

Noticed in the above video, four frames minus engines outside. Wonder how many inside. Looks to me like a PW delay.
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deltadawg
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:10 pm

Did not see this posted, sorry if I missed it somehow. Not sure if this is just a lot of spin on hopeful orders or if BBD is on to some true potential in China? I was on Nasdaq though and saw it, story is from last week. Hopefully BBD can pad the books some with some new orders though.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bombardie ... 0927-00021
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northstardc4m
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:32 pm

deltadawg wrote:
Did not see this posted, sorry if I missed it somehow. Not sure if this is just a lot of spin on hopeful orders or if BBD is on to some true potential in China? I was on Nasdaq though and saw it, story is from last week. Hopefully BBD can pad the books some with some new orders though.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bombardie ... 0927-00021


There was an opinion posted that i can't find now that they are shopping the Republic slots around the 3 groups in China... not confirmed though. It would be good if they could get some pure orders from China... the C-series is a good compliment to the domestic designs they are pushing.
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SCAT15F
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:22 pm

Anybody know the routing info on the CS300 delivery flights for Korean? Just wondering, based on the aircraft's ferry range how they would set that up.
 
wezgulf3
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:28 pm

SCAT15F wrote:
Anybody know the routing info on the CS300 delivery flights for Korean? Just wondering, based on the aircraft's ferry range how they would set that up.


I would guess, Alaska, Petropavlovsk, Korea. But that is just a guess!

Wes...
 
golfradio
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:38 pm

SCAT15F wrote:
Anybody know the routing info on the CS300 delivery flights for Korean? Just wondering, based on the aircraft's ferry range how they would set that up.


My guess would be YMX-ANC-SDJ-ICN
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CS500
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:42 pm

ANC-ICN is less distance than YMX-ZRH and YMX-RIX (though more likely into the wind), so good chance just YMX-ANC-ICN
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:22 pm

Yesterday was a great day in Mirabel. A delivery and a first flight on the same day. Hopefully a precursor of things to come.

I predict 8 more deliveries this calendar year, making an even 20 for the year...if I have counted correctly.

So, far less than the 30 hoped for but program momentum is still building, and hopefully PW gets their engines flowing faster by EOY.
 
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:24 pm

WRT to the KAL deliveries, I wonder if KAL wants them at the same time or a few days apart. It would be something to have a double delivery on the same day!
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:11 am

Nice air shot of Korean Air's first CS300 aircraft:

Image
https://twitter.com/BBD_Aircraft/status ... 818217984/
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SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:28 am

55015 made first flight yesterday........the program continues to gain momentum.....3 have now made first flight and are awaiting delivery...55013/55015/55018.

http://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html
 
Tominjsh
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:06 pm

airBaltic grounded all of it's CS fleet this evening due some information from P&W
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:26 pm

Tominjsh wrote:
airBaltic grounded all of it's CS fleet this evening due some information from P&W


There's a separate thread for that topic....and FlightGlobal reported that the problem is "external" to the engine.....that is a lot less worrying to me than if it had been an internal problem/design flaw.
 
Tominjsh
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:45 am

SteelChair wrote:
There's a separate thread for that topic....and FlightGlobal reported that the problem is "external" to the engine.....that is a lot less worrying to me than if it had been an internal problem/design flaw.

I posted before that topic, so...
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:56 pm

[code][/code]
Tominjsh wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
There's a separate thread for that topic....and FlightGlobal reported that the problem is "external" to the engine.....that is a lot less worrying to me than if it had been an internal problem/design flaw.

I posted before that topic, so...


Oops well my bad on that.

At any rate, according to the information on the other thread and in the press, the aircraft appear to be returning to service very quickly.
 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:09 pm

From what I've heard, the issue is, let's say, very tiny. It will be solved very easily (if it's even required). And it has nothing to do with BBD or Pratt. (And as everyone noticed, Swiss is definitely not impacted).
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:11 pm

Meanwhile back at the factory.....no deliveries since October 2. Very disappointing.

Does anyone have any update on when more deliveries can be expected or what the hold up is?
 
Boeingphan
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:32 pm

Pure speculation but they may be pulling the reigns in while they work with Airbus to get the supply chain in line and dialed in so they can start making a larger push mid year next. I would think AB can help squeeze down some margins across the board from the suppliers and sort out the supply chain. The only domino they can't expedite would be PW.
 
ytz
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:30 pm

Boeingphan wrote:
Pure speculation but they may be pulling the reigns in while they work with Airbus to get the supply chain in line and dialed in so they can start making a larger push mid year next. I would think AB can help squeeze down some margins across the board from the suppliers and sort out the supply chain. The only domino they can't expedite would be PW.


A week after the deal? No way.

And Airbus has said there's no change on anything until the deal is official next year. And that would be prudent.
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:57 am

SteelChair wrote:
Meanwhile back at the factory.....no deliveries since October 2. Very disappointing.

Does anyone have any update on when more deliveries can be expected or what the hold up is?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bombard ... -1.4370004

Bombardier Inc. could be set to announce next week that it won't meet its forecast for delivering about 30 C Series jets this year because of a lack of engines for the new commercial aircraft.


Bombardier was responding after United Technologies Inc., the maker of the Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan engines, told analysts Tuesday that it recently decided to hold back some engine shipments to Bombardier and Airbus so it could offer spare engines to keep airlines flying the C Series and A320neo aircraft daily.

The U.S. based conglomerate said it should certify a combustor upgrade to incorporate into new engines in the fourth quarter. Pratt shipped upgraded hardware for seal issues earlier in the year to address problems that surfaced in the new engines.
 
ytz
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:34 am

They just can’t catch a break.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:31 pm

At least we are finally getting some information about the reason for the slow deliveries.

Does anyine know if PW is on the hook for any payments to Bombardier or customers for lack of production?
 
Skywatcher
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:45 pm

United Technologies booked a $198 million "impairment charge" to cover the problems. I suspect this is compensation/support to Airbus/BBD themselves (tech support/maybe interest on delayed delivery payments etc.) as well as any GTF airline customers (additional spares supply/tech support etc.).
 
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:53 pm

At this critical point for Bombardier, I would think that the damage is much greater than that. When one computes the time value of money/interest charges on the deliveries that aren't being made....Bombardier is really taking a big hit here.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:02 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Would a second production line in the United States speed up production or is the problem bigger than that? (regarding the GTF)


At this point it wouldn't matter, because the problem is the engine deliveries. But by the time a possible C-Series FAL opens in Mobile, one would think the engine deliveries are back on schedule.
 
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:03 pm

Would a second production line in the United States speed up production or is the problem bigger than that? (regarding the GTF)
 
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LockheedBBD
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:06 pm

INFINITI329 wrote:
Would a second production line in the United States speed up production or is the problem bigger than that? (regarding the GTF)


It sounds like it's both. There are design issues that need fixing, and they just aren't building enough of them.
 
CRJ900
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:08 pm

I wonder what SWISS, airBaltic and Korean Air think about the Airbus/BBD CSeries partnership and if they are discussing the aircraft's future with them...
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:12 pm

SteelChair wrote:
At this critical point for Bombardier, I would think that the damage is much greater than that. When one computes the time value of money/interest charges on the deliveries that aren't being made....Bombardier is really taking a big hit here.


At the same time Bombardier never increased production to the required rate of 4 aircraft per month. As P&W is committed to deliver the bulk of the engines in H2 2017, P&W should have built a backlog like Airbus did with the A3210neo, and deliver as many aircraft as they can at the very end of the year. It's now too late for that.
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SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:03 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
At this critical point for Bombardier, I would think that the damage is much greater than that. When one computes the time value of money/interest charges on the deliveries that aren't being made....Bombardier is really taking a big hit here.


At the same time Bombardier never increased production to the required rate of 4 aircraft per month. As P&W is committed to deliver the bulk of the engines in H2 2017, P&W should have built a backlog like Airbus did with the A3210neo, and deliver as many aircraft as they can at the very end of the year. It's now too late for that.


Did you mean to say that Bombardier (not PW) should have built a backlog of airplanes.....

In fact they did, Bombardier has something like 18-20 airplanes sitting around Mirabel right now.....they don't have the resources to build even more airplanes just to have them sit waiting for engines.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:37 pm

The Korean Air delivery has been delayed as well.

Korean Air is confident it will receive its first Bombardier CSeries aircraft by the end of this year or early 2018, after its timetable was affected by program delays. The Seoul-based carrier was to have received its first CS300 this week, Korean Air president Walter Cho said at the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines annual assembly. However, deliveries have been delayed because of issues with Pratt & Whitney GTF engines.


Ref http://atwonline.com/airframes/aapa-kor ... 0-year-end
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:48 pm

SteelChair wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
At this critical point for Bombardier, I would think that the damage is much greater than that. When one computes the time value of money/interest charges on the deliveries that aren't being made....Bombardier is really taking a big hit here.


At the same time Bombardier never increased production to the required rate of 4 aircraft per month. As P&W is committed to deliver the bulk of the engines in H2 2017, P&W should have built a backlog like Airbus did with the A3210neo, and deliver as many aircraft as they can at the very end of the year. It's now too late for that.


Did you mean to say that Bombardier (not PW) should have built a backlog of airplanes.....

In fact they did, Bombardier has something like 18-20 airplanes sitting around Mirabel right now.....they don't have the resources to build even more airplanes just to have them sit waiting for engines.

BBD has nowhere near 18-20 planes built and sitting around waiting for engines right now.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:52 pm

Polot wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

At the same time Bombardier never increased production to the required rate of 4 aircraft per month. As P&W is committed to deliver the bulk of the engines in H2 2017, P&W should have built a backlog like Airbus did with the A3210neo, and deliver as many aircraft as they can at the very end of the year. It's now too late for that.


Did you mean to say that Bombardier (not PW) should have built a backlog of airplanes.....

In fact they did, Bombardier has something like 18-20 airplanes sitting around Mirabel right now.....they don't have the resources to build even more airplanes just to have them sit waiting for engines.

BBD has nowhere near 18-20 planes built and sitting around waiting for engines right now.


There's about 14 or 15: 3 in the CRJ building, 6 on the production line, 4 on the taxiway out by the runway and I was told that there were a couple in the paint building. The 4 in the completion center had engines. I think there may have been one or two at Aerotek ot Avion or whatever the interior company they are using is called.

And I never said they had 18-20 sitting without engines , i said they couldn't afford to have that many sitting without engines. Imho they certainly can't afford (literally) to accelerate production right now.. ...until PW gets their interminable engine problems sorted out for the engine they spent 20 years developing and which they guaranteed was ready to go....
 
Dash9
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:32 am

Avianor is the company they outsourced interior completion.
Remember that completed aircraft 'with engines' might just have temporary engines for ground test or test flights but not the final engines with final fixes as expected by the clients.
 
SteelChair
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:54 am

Dash9 wrote:
Avianor is the company they outsourced interior completion.
Remember that completed aircraft 'with engines' might just have temporary engines for ground test or test flights but not the final engines with final fixes as expected by the clients.


Good point...thanks for bringing that up.
 
jalarner
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:36 pm

Take a look at "cseries_fanpage" on Instagram. A photo was posted today showing 3x (appear to be completed) Swiss and 2x Korean jets. You cant see if they have engines or not, but they all look very close to being finished.
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airnorth
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:55 pm

 
ExMilitaryEng
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:43 pm

jalarner wrote:
Take a look at "cseries_fanpage" on Instagram. A photo was posted today showing 3x Swiss and 2x Korean jets. You cant see if they have engines or not, but they all look very close to being finished.


Exactly.

FWIW, past the wall in the way back, you can see (barely) the "green" top tail of 3 additional ones.
 
Aircellist
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:47 am

Radio-Canada announces that tomorrow, BBD will state how many CSeries will be delivered this year, and it will not be 30. The official culprit is, of course, the slow rate of engine deliveries. Apparently, this delay in deliveries would happen this year only.

Stay tuned.

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/106 ... tt-whitney (in French)
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Jayafe
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:57 am

Seeing the pictures of a good bunch of birds painted and parked in the hangar, I take for granted that “official” means “true”, I am reading your comments as suspicious about that....
 
sirtoby
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:29 am

At least a good bunch of this bunch has engines. So at least it is not only the engines that hold up aircraft deliveries...
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: CSeries - Flight Testing And Production Thread (Part 2)

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:48 am

Bombardier expects to deliver 20-22 CSeries aircraft this year.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/news ... ercom.html

Consolidated revenue and free cash flow usage guidance for the year are revised to approximately $16.3 billion and $1.0 billion respectively to align with approximately 20 to 22 C Series deliveries due to engine delivery delays from Pratt & Whitney. Certain engines originally designated for production aircraft in the fourth quarter will be redirected to support spare engine requirements of current C Series customers.
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