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Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 191): Russians might only know that, but the rest of us can see it for what it is. |
Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2): How would this benefit Russia and Putin? |
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 185): We also know Russian sepratists have missles supplied by Russia... that those same separatists bragged about shooting down a plane today - only to remove those comments after learning that the MH airliner was downed. Maybe Russian news doesn't allow that information to be published, but in free societies it is readily available. |
Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2): How would this benefit Russia and Putin? I would really like to understand the logic behind this idea. Thanks. |
Quoting tu204 (Reply 177): For those blaming one side and not the other, I would remind you that the Ukrainian Air Force already has one sucessful shoot-down of a civilian aircraft in 2001. A T154 flying from Tel-Aviv to Novosibirsk. Until more information is know it is stupid to make accuasations towards one side of a conflict. All we know now is that an aircraft crashed in a war zone. Thats it. |
Quoting Aesma (Reply 178): Some of the pictures seen repeatedly on Russia Today can't possibly be of a 777 crash site, we see much smaller engines, I'm guessing from the Ilyushin Il-76 that was shot down previously. |
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1): Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGI...qmKsg |
Quoting redadeco (Reply 8): I don't believe this, the sky is crystal clear whilst it's pretty cloudy on footage from the actual crash site. |
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1): Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGIRqmKsg |
Quote: A: terrorist leader "Bes" (Devil) B: his GRU chief A: Shot down a plane just now. Group "Minera". Fell down near Enakievo. B: Pilots, where are the pilots? A: We're going to the crash site to take photos, still smoking. B: How many minutes ago? A: 30 minutes or so. Two terrorists talking: C: Yes, "Mayor"! D: So, "chernuhin" brigade shot down the plane, from Chernuhin block-post. Cossacks, who are located there/ D: Plane broke up in air, near Petropavlovsk mine. Found first 200 (code for dead person), civilian. C: What's going on there? D: 100% civilian plane. C: Lots of people there? D: Holy shit, plane fragments fell on houses. C: Type of plane? D: Still working on that, haven't been near main part. Looking where first bodies started to drop. D: Parts of plane, seats, bodies. C: Any weapons? D: Nope, civilian stuff, medicine, towels, toilet paper. C: Any documents? D: Yes, Indonedian student, from Thompson University. Two other terrorists talking: E: About this plane, shot down near Snezhnoy - Torez. Appers it's civilian plane. Fell down near Grabovo, sea of bodies, women, children. Cossacks are inspecting it. E: TV is saying it looks like AN-26, ukrainian, transport, but Malaysian Airways are written on it. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory? F: Transporting spies. No need to fly here, in the war zone. |
Quoting d l x (Reply 11): That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane. |
Quoting Klaus (Reply 6): No, we already know quite a number of things at this point: • the aircraft has crashed, with no survivors • the crash site is in the separatist-held area close to the russian border • separatists have already been very active with anti-aircraft missiles in the last days, shooting down an ukrainian military transport aircraft among others • separatists are in possession of at least one high-altitude-capable "Buk" surface-to-air missile battery (screenshots of the since-deleted tweets about their possession of these missiles also exist) • separatists have support from russian military specialists of various kinds • there are multiple reports and screenshots of the separatists even having claimed responsibility for the hit – just in the mistaken assumption that they had again hit a ukrainian military transport; those posts have been deleted promptly after the true nature of the hit becoming clear, but will most likely be recovered on the Twitter servers The situation is already very far from neutral even at this very early stage. |
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1): Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down |
Quoting Klaus (Reply 6): No, we already know quite a number of things at this point: |
Quoting d l x (Reply 11): That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane. |
Quoting d l x (Reply 11): That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane. |
Quoting d l x (Reply 11): Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1): Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGIRqmKsg That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane. |
Quote: Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 had been operating 1,000ft above the upper limit of closed airspace at the time of its disappearance over eastern Ukraine. Pan-European air navigation service Eurocontrol states that the aircraft was flying at 33,000ft when radar contact was lost. It states that the route had been closed by Ukrainian authorities up to 32,000ft. But the route was "open at the level at which [MH17] was flying", says Eurocontrol. |
Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 17): At 18 seconds into the video a rocket trail is clearlty visible It appears to be turning to home in on the target |
Quoting s5daw (Reply 20): So in summary, NOTAM was issue for closed airway (for flight safety reason). Malaysia 17 was planned to fly over it anyway, filed flight plan and took off after this NOTAM went effective. Per the flight plan, the airplane departed around 1000 UTC on the 17th, the NOTAM went effective on 0000 UTC on the 17th. |
Quoting s5daw (Reply 20): So in summary, NOTAM was issue for closed airway (for flight safety reason). Malaysia 17 was planned to fly over it anyway, filed flight plan and took off after this NOTAM went effective. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14): I wonder how the separatists got such a trained crew together, unless a whole SA-11 (BUK) battery has switched sides to them. |
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 24): This video is NOT of MH17, but of an An-26 that was shot sown a few days ago. |
Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23): The most severe punishment by NATO must swiftly be applied to these separatist terrorists. They should conduct airstrikes on their anti-aircraft positions and take out their capability. Arms movements across the border should equally be prime targets for airstrikes. Financial sanctions are not enough. Putin be damned, take them out. |
Quoting A388 (Reply 23): As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites? |
Quoting A388 (Reply 23): As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites? |
Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 26): This is an AN-26 that was shot down on July 14. |
Quoting BigJKU (Reply 37): Quoting A388 (Reply 23): As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites? It doesn't quite work that way...these are not the all seeing eye up in the sky. You watch too many movies I think. |
Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2): How would this benefit Russia and Putin? I would really like to understand the logic behind this idea. Thanks. |
Quoting antskip (Reply 25): The conservative Russian newspaper Pravda is reporting that Ukranian forces in the area of the crash deployed a Buk medium range missile system there only a day ago. In the same article it is claimed that the Militias do not have an equivalent missile system. http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...128074-boeing_shot_down_ukraine-0/ Another article details of yesterday's downing by Militia of a Ukranian Su-25, but one must assume using a system not also capable of shooting down a plane at 10,000 meters. http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...2014/128070-kiev_moscow_planes-0/. However, to counter the Pravda view: "In a Facebook post, Mr. Gerashchenko alleged that the separatists had obtained a Buk surface-to-air missile system that he said locals saw them parading near the towns of Snizhne and Torez during the day on Thursday. He said a convoy with the anti-aircraft missile was seen heading toward Shakhtarsk, a town not far from the crash site, about an hour before the plane went down late Thursday afternoon." |
Quoting Klaus (Reply 6): |