bnatraveler
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Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:45 pm

Hi All,

The previous thread became quite long so Part 3 has been created to continue the conversation.

We ask that you please be respectful to the victim's families. In addition do NOT post pictures of the crash site if they contain victims. We ask that you link to them with a warning.

Additionally, this is a charged environment so please refrain from political, polarizing or likely flame-baiting comments in your replies.

Thank you for your cooperation.

BNAtraveler
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:49 pm

Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGIRqmKsg

[Edited 2014-07-17 12:50:14]
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BEG2IAH
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 191):
Russians might only know that, but the rest of us can see it for what it is.

How would this benefit Russia and Putin? I would really like to understand the logic behind this idea. Thanks.
Flying at the cruising altitude is (mostly) boring. I wish all flights were nothing but endless take offs and landings every 10 minutes or so.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:51 pm

Dutch story about a lucky guy who escaped both MH370 and MH17:

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/31172/Rampv...tsnapt-aan-MH370-en-aan-MH17.dhtml
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Maverick623
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
How would this benefit Russia and Putin?

More of a "reap what you sow" than a planned happening by a high official.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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LOWS
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 185):
We also know Russian sepratists have missles supplied by Russia... that those same separatists bragged about shooting down a plane today - only to remove those comments after learning that the MH airliner was downed. Maybe Russian news doesn't allow that information to be published, but in free societies it is readily available.

        

Here is a rather detailed article on the weapons system that (probably) shot the plane down.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...ot-down-ukraine-was-it-intentional

And now, from Twitter, @Kateryna_Kruk, the Russian troops are blocking access to the aircraft and will send the black boxes to Moscow.

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
How would this benefit Russia and Putin? I would really like to understand the logic behind this idea. Thanks.

It doesn't. But he's lost control over a situation he started.
 
Klaus
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 177):
For those blaming one side and not the other, I would remind you that the Ukrainian Air Force already has one sucessful shoot-down of a civilian aircraft in 2001. A T154 flying from Tel-Aviv to Novosibirsk.

Until more information is know it is stupid to make accuasations towards one side of a conflict.

All we know now is that an aircraft crashed in a war zone. Thats it.

No, we already know quite a number of things at this point:

• the aircraft has crashed, with no survivors

• the crash site is in the separatist-held area close to the russian border

• separatists have already been very active with anti-aircraft missiles in the last days, shooting down an ukrainian military transport aircraft among others

• separatists are in possession of at least one high-altitude-capable "Buk" surface-to-air missile battery (screenshots of the since-deleted tweets about their possession of these missiles also exist)

• separatists have support from russian military specialists of various kinds

• there are multiple reports and screenshots of the separatists even having claimed responsibility for the hit – just in the mistaken assumption that they had again hit a ukrainian military transport; those posts have been deleted promptly after the true nature of the hit becoming clear, but will most likely be recovered on the Twitter servers

The situation is already very far from neutral even at this very early stage.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 178):
Some of the pictures seen repeatedly on Russia Today can't possibly be of a 777 crash site, we see much smaller engines, I'm guessing from the Ilyushin Il-76 that was shot down previously.

Some of the images show at least one huge fan disc; Others may well have some of the smaller compressor or turbine stages from the engines.
 
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 5):
And now, from Twitter, @Kateryna_Kruk, the Russian troops are blocking access to the aircraft and will send the black boxes to Moscow.

Russia admits having troops at the crash site on ukrainian soil? That would be highly problematic.
 
redadeco
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGI...qmKsg

I don't believe this, the sky is crystal clear whilst it's pretty cloudy on footage from the actual crash site.
 
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LOWS
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Russia admits having troops at the crash site on ukrainian soil? That would be highly problematic.

Well, Russian citizens fighting the Ukrainian government.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting redadeco (Reply 8):
I don't believe this, the sky is crystal clear whilst it's pretty cloudy on footage from the actual crash site.

You may be right. There's a lot of conflicting information floating on the internet.
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D L X
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGIRqmKsg

That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane.
 
M1chl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:00 pm

Hey guy, there is a video floating around youtube (it gets deleted every time), it captures conversation between separatist. Here is transcript from that video (its obviously in Russian). Sorry if thats already being discussed, just strikes me as the most probable cause, so here it is.

Quote:

A: terrorist leader "Bes" (Devil)
B: his GRU chief

A: Shot down a plane just now. Group "Minera". Fell down near Enakievo.
B: Pilots, where are the pilots?
A: We're going to the crash site to take photos, still smoking.
B: How many minutes ago?
A: 30 minutes or so.

Two terrorists talking:

C: Yes, "Mayor"!
D: So, "chernuhin" brigade shot down the plane, from Chernuhin block-post. Cossacks, who are located there/
D: Plane broke up in air, near Petropavlovsk mine. Found first 200 (code for dead person), civilian.
C: What's going on there?
D: 100% civilian plane.
C: Lots of people there?
D: Holy shit, plane fragments fell on houses.
C: Type of plane?
D: Still working on that, haven't been near main part. Looking where first bodies started to drop.
D: Parts of plane, seats, bodies.
C: Any weapons?
D: Nope, civilian stuff, medicine, towels, toilet paper.
C: Any documents?
D: Yes, Indonedian student, from Thompson University.

Two other terrorists talking:

E: About this plane, shot down near Snezhnoy - Torez. Appers it's civilian plane. Fell down near Grabovo, sea of bodies, women, children. Cossacks are inspecting it.
E: TV is saying it looks like AN-26, ukrainian, transport, but Malaysian Airways are written on it. What was it doing on Ukraine's territory?
F: Transporting spies. No need to fly here, in the war zone.

Video is here (Its like 10 reupload, so it might be taken down again) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g
Transcript belongs to user name Fxp from neogaf.com
 
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pvjin
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:01 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 11):
That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane.

MH17 isn't the only plane shot down in Ukraine lately, that video could possibly be from some other case too.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:02 pm

Repost from the previous thread:

The BUK (or SA-11) system does not just consist of the launcher tank depicted in the pictures. Actuallya BUK batteryconsists of 4 launcher tanks, a launcher/loader tank , a command tank and a tank with a surveillance radar, plus assorted trucks for supply and support. I would guess that the system requires at least 30 trained soldiers to set it up and to operate it (plus an equal sized security element). It isn't just aim, press the trigger once, wait for the beep as the signal that the heat seeker has locked onto the target and press the trigger again to launch the missile. I wonder how the separatists got such a trained crew together, unless a whole SA-11 (BUK) battery has switched sides to them.

Jan
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D L X
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
No, we already know quite a number of things at this point:

• the aircraft has crashed, with no survivors

• the crash site is in the separatist-held area close to the russian border

• separatists have already been very active with anti-aircraft missiles in the last days, shooting down an ukrainian military transport aircraft among others

• separatists are in possession of at least one high-altitude-capable "Buk" surface-to-air missile battery (screenshots of the since-deleted tweets about their possession of these missiles also exist)

• separatists have support from russian military specialists of various kinds

• there are multiple reports and screenshots of the separatists even having claimed responsibility for the hit – just in the mistaken assumption that they had again hit a ukrainian military transport; those posts have been deleted promptly after the true nature of the hit becoming clear, but will most likely be recovered on the Twitter servers

The situation is already very far from neutral even at this very early stage.

Agreed. It would be an absolutely amazing coincidence that a plane crashed from cruise, and that crash just happened to be over a war zone.

it would be imprudent to *conclude* that it was a missile strike before conclusive evidence is revealed, but that should be at the top of the list of things to consider.

You know that old adage about how when you hear hoofsteps, think horses not zebras? It applies... unless you're in Africa.
 
Scipio
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:04 pm

Ukrainian intelligence allegedly intercepted rebel communications about the shooting-down of MH17. In the first conversation, rebels report that they have shot down an aircraft. In the second conversation, they report that the aircraft is civilian and that a passport of an Indonesian student was found at the crash site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down

At 18 seconds into the video a rocket trail is clearlty visible

It appears to be turning to home in on the target
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remcor
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
No, we already know quite a number of things at this point:

We also know that the rebels do not have an air force. This implies that the Ukrainian's did not have an incentive to aggressively monitor their airspace to deter/deny any rebel planes. The rebels, however did have a strong incentive.
 
s5daw
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:09 pm

This is from reddit user C172Driver:

This is going to get lost in this thread, but this NOTAM (notice to airmen) was published at 00z on 17JUL14 (aka this morning, 10 hours before departure of MH17).
URRV V6158/14 17JUL0000-31AUG2359 EST DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FRNG FM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY, ATS RTE SEGMENTS CLSD AS FLW: A100 MIMRA - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND), B145 KANON - ASMIL, G247 MIMRA - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA), A87 TAMAK - SARNA
The thing to note there is the last airways segment, A87 between TAMAK - SARNA. MH17's flight plan filed directly over this segment of airway.
-N0490F310 ARNEM UL620 SUVOX UZ713 OSN UL980 MOBSA DCT POVEL DCT SUI L980 UTOLU/N0490F330 L980 LDZ M70 BEMBI L980 PEKIT/N0480F350 L980 B449 RANAH L750 ZB G201 BI DCT MURLI DCT TIGER/N0490F370 L333 KKJ L759 PUT R325 VIH A464 DAKUS DCT
TAMAK/N0480F350 A87 TIROM/N0490F350 A87 MAMED
Essentially A87 is an airway, and it was supposed to not to be flown on between these two waypoints, which was about a 100 mile segment.
Image of what I am talking about. (not taking credit for image)
So in summary, NOTAM was issue for closed airway (for flight safety reason). Malaysia 17 was planned to fly over it anyway, filed flight plan and took off after this NOTAM went effective. Per the flight plan, the airplane departed around 1000 UTC on the 17th, the NOTAM went effective on 0000 UTC on the 17th.
 
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 11):
That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all
those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane.

Yeah, that was it spinning out of control. Problem is I did not see a puff when the missile. Its possible it was an inflight break up.

I think it was a clear in Ukraine. Not cloudy or rainy so its consistent with the day/time.
 
A388
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:12 pm

As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites?

A388
 
Tobias2702
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 11):
That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane.

This video is NOT of MH17, but of an An-26 that was shot sown a few days ago. Your can hear people talking about soldiers jumping out of the doomed aircraft using parachutes.

Considering the impact of this new tragedy on Malaysia Airlines: They are now two longhaul aircraft short from what they had half a year ago, how can/will this be compensated?
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antskip
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:16 pm

The conservative Russian newspaper Pravda is reporting that Ukranian forces in the area of the crash deployed a Buk medium range missile system there only a day ago. In the same article it is claimed that the Militias do not have an equivalent missile system. http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...128074-boeing_shot_down_ukraine-0/

Another article details of yesterday's downing by Militia of a Ukranian Su-25, but one must assume using a system not also capable of shooting down a plane at 10,000 meters. http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...2014/128070-kiev_moscow_planes-0/.

However, to counter the Pravda view: "In a Facebook post, Mr. Gerashchenko alleged that the separatists had obtained a Buk surface-to-air missile system that he said locals saw them parading near the towns of Snizhne and Torez during the day on Thursday. He said a convoy with the anti-aircraft missile was seen heading toward Shakhtarsk, a town not far from the crash site, about an hour before the plane went down late Thursday afternoon."
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romeobravo
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 11):

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):

Someone captured (at least, that's what he claims) MH17 in the air before it was shot down:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWDGIRqmKsg

That is an absolutely incredible video. That has to be it! Look at how crazy that thing is flying, with all those very tight turns. I think we're either looking at the plane after it was hit, or the missile hitting the plane.

This is an AN-26 that was shot down on July 14.

Sobering footage none the less.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:18 pm

MH17 was operating above closed airspace.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...losed-airspace-eurocontrol-401742/

Quote:
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 had been operating 1,000ft above the upper limit of closed airspace at the time of its disappearance over eastern Ukraine.

Pan-European air navigation service Eurocontrol states that the aircraft was flying at 33,000ft when radar contact was lost.

It states that the route had been closed by Ukrainian authorities up to 32,000ft.

But the route was "open at the level at which [MH17] was flying", says Eurocontrol.
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cylw
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 20):

That NOTAM says those airways are closed up to FL320. MAS17 was at FL330. Not saying it was the safest thing to be there but it wasn't against any rules.
 
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7BOEING7
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 17):

At 18 seconds into the video a rocket trail is clearlty visible

It appears to be turning to home in on the target

That's the airplane trying to fly without some parts.
 
baw217
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:19 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 20):
So in summary, NOTAM was issue for closed airway (for flight safety reason). Malaysia 17 was planned to fly over it anyway, filed flight plan and took off after this NOTAM went effective. Per the flight plan, the airplane departed around 1000 UTC on the 17th, the NOTAM went effective on 0000 UTC on the 17th.

If you read the whole NOTAM:

V6158/14 NOTAMN
Q) URRV/QARLC/IV/NBO/E/000/530/4818N04023E095
A) URRV B) 1407170000 C) 1408312359 EST
E) DUE TO COMBAT ACTIONS ON THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE NEAR THE
STATE BORDER WITH THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION AND THE FACTS OF FIRING
FROM THE TERRITORY OF THE UKRAINE TOWARDS THE TERRITORY OF RUSSIAN
FEDERATION, TO ENSURE INTL FLT SAFETY,
ATS RTE SEGMENTS CLSD AS FLW:
A100 MIMRA - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND) ,
B145 KANON - ASMIL,
G247 MIMRA - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA),
A87 TAMAK - SARNA,
A102 PENEG - NALEM,
A225 GUKOL - ODETA,
A712 TAMAK - SAMBEK NDB (SB),
B493 FASAD - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND),
B947 TAMAK - ROSTOV-NA-DONU VOR/DME (RND),
G118 LATRI - BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA),
G534 MIMRA - TOROS,
G904 FASAD - SUTAG,
R114 BAGAYEVSKIY NDB (BA)-NALEM.
SFC - FL320.

The airway is only closed up to FL320, the flight is planned at FL350 and the aircraft was flying at FL330, so the flight has complied with the NOTAM.
 
windshear
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:19 pm

And you can see a fire trail when it hits
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:19 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting s5daw (Reply 20):
So in summary, NOTAM was issue for closed airway (for flight safety reason). Malaysia 17 was planned to fly over it anyway, filed flight plan and took off after this NOTAM went effective.

None of the airways in the NOTAM are in eastern Ukraine - they're all in Russian airspace.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Klaus
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:21 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
I wonder how the separatists got such a trained crew together, unless a whole SA-11 (BUK) battery has switched sides to them.

As far as I've heard they captured at least one unit when they conquered a ukrainian military post. And since they've got support from russian military specialists they could well be able to operate it. That they've successfully downed more than one ukrainian miltary aircraft recently (and bragged about it) makes that very plausible.
 
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:22 pm

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 24):
This video is NOT of MH17, but of an An-26 that was shot sown a few days ago.

So, first, I don't speak a lick of Russian, so if that's what they were saying, I wouldn't know. But, how do we know that the spectators on the ground are reporting the truth (not saying they're lying, but just that they thought they were seeing one ting, when they were actually seeing a 777 coming apart at altitude)?
 
Maverick623
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:23 pm

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 23):
The most severe punishment by NATO must swiftly be applied to these separatist terrorists. They should conduct airstrikes on their anti-aircraft positions and take out their capability. Arms movements across the border should equally be prime targets for airstrikes. Financial sanctions are not enough. Putin be damned, take them out.

Ever hear of Iran Air 655?
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bigjku
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites?

It doesn't quite work that way...these are not the all seeing eye up in the sky. You watch too many movies I think.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites?

Depends upon where the intel gathering assets were focused.

You can't cover a whole wide area with just a few. You miss things.

More likely electronic intelligence will have a better 'view' of what happened rather than any visual satellites.

It could pick-up not only radio and cell phone communications, but land-line communications in some cases. The data can show exactly what was targeted by the missile. How many were fired. How they tracked the target. If any abort was attempted, etc.

One thing nations do is try to capture all the electronic emissions for actual weapons used in combat. (Not just the US, but many other nations.)

The data obtained can be crucial to developing effective countermeasures should those weapons ever be used against us. Databases can be updated to easily identify the weapon if we come across it again. etc.
 
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:25 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:29 pm

Quoting RomeoBravo (Reply 26):
This is an AN-26 that was shot down on July 14.

You can hear what sounds like a prop overspeed toward the end of the video.
 
Scipio
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:30 pm

Another video from the crash site

(warning: not all bodies blurred out, passports of victims shown)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfsV7ZcF2oI#t=17
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:30 pm

First high-detail photos are available (there are no bodies visible):

http://drugoi.livejournal.com/4014093.html

http://oi62.tinypic.com/npi2ap.jpg
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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speedygonzales
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:31 pm

Quoting BigJKU (Reply 37):
Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
As this area is beingclosely watched by other countries due to the unrest in that region, shouldn't foreign millitary forces be able to see what happened via their own millitary satellites?

It doesn't quite work that way...these are not the all seeing eye up in the sky. You watch too many movies I think.

   Military satellites can do a lot of things, but they can not break the laws of physics.
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alfa164
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:32 pm

Quoting BEG2IAH (Reply 2):
How would this benefit Russia and Putin? I would really like to understand the logic behind this idea. Thanks.

Based on the separatists' posts earlier today, they thought they woould shoot down a military jet. They seriously erred. Putin obviously didn't look for this outcome, but by supplying those terrorists with such lethal weapons, he made it possible.

That's the nature of "playing with fire".
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tavong
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:33 pm

madness, madness

these thing should no be happening, i´m sorry for all the victims but is shocking.
I´m sorry if i can´t find the right words but i´m sad and shocked to see these madness happening.

Gus
SKBO
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SIA747Megatop
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:35 pm

Is it possible that video is from some other shot down aircraft? Heard a lot about aircraft being shot down in the region. I say this because, as noted in the comments of the video, the sky is bright blue yet in all the photos of the crash site the sky is overcast.

Secondly, is there a chance that the NOTAM was reverse manufactured since there seems to be no absolute source?

Just to note, may not be relevant to this thread but the White House is on lockdown following the finding of a suspicious package.
"I do not yet know of a man who became a leader as a result of having undergone a leadership course." - Lee Kuan Yew
 
airDFW
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:36 pm

If it is true that separatists were responsible for the shooting down of this plane, then it is Russian Govt that is ultimately responsible. Putin thought he can keep the Ukraine situation just enough boiling so keep the Govt in Kiev permanently off guard. Now the situation is out of control and Mr. Putin is responsible for this plane crash.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:37 pm

Radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on & track an aircraft right before plane was shot down:

http://twitter.com/planesafeorg/status/489870532397903872
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
JFKMan
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:38 pm

Confirmation from high ranking US official: Missile took airliner down.
NYC
 
alfa164
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:39 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 25):
The conservative Russian newspaper Pravda is reporting that Ukranian forces in the area of the crash deployed a Buk medium range missile system there only a day ago. In the same article it is claimed that the Militias do not have an equivalent missile system. http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...128074-boeing_shot_down_ukraine-0/

Another article details of yesterday's downing by Militia of a Ukranian Su-25, but one must assume using a system not also capable of shooting down a plane at 10,000 meters. http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspo...2014/128070-kiev_moscow_planes-0/.

However, to counter the Pravda view: "In a Facebook post, Mr. Gerashchenko alleged that the separatists had obtained a Buk surface-to-air missile system that he said locals saw them parading near the towns of Snizhne and Torez during the day on Thursday. He said a convoy with the anti-aircraft missile was seen heading toward Shakhtarsk, a town not far from the crash site, about an hour before the plane went down late Thursday afternoon."

Yes.. "Pravda" is the Russian word for "Truth". It has for decades been an ironic joke...

[Edited 2014-07-17 13:41:02]
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tu204
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:40 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):

I was more reffering to the question of "who" shot it down.

Pointing fingers at this early of a time while not knowing any facts is foolish.
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