hivue
Posts: 2008
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Viper911 (Reply 118):
Someone should remind Mr. Engel about IR655 then.

Correct. The US is living in a glass house on this.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
antskip
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting vio (Reply 131):
I'm a little sceptical that this is the MH17 flight. If you look at the size of the engines in relation to the fuselage, they are much smaller. I would rather say that this is another aircraft, perhaps a Ukrainian plane?

Please! "Malaysia Airlines confirms it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30km from Tamak waypoint, approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

Flight MH17 operated on a Boeing 777 departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm (Amsterdam local time) and was estimated to arrive at Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 6.10 am (Malaysia local time) the next day.

The flight was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard"
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/cont...vel_advisory/statement1-mh17.html.

MH17 was due at KUL in 15 minutes from now, A terrible act of criminality. So sorry for the so many innocent people on board. Those who did this, and those further up in any chain of command / responsibility, must be held accountable. Every nation that had passengers on board needs to use full diplomatic pressure to ensure the innocents were not murdered without justice being served.
 
alfa164
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting OlegShv (Reply 150):
The rebels are not the only ones operating Buk systems in that area. See the link below:

The rebels were the only ones bragging about shooting down a plane today, though.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:59 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 137):
Quoting nupogodi (Reply 151):
OP says you can link them with a warning. So please link with a warning. We're all adults here and can choose which content we wish to view.

Here it is: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0e5_1405626203

People are severely burned, mashed, with limbs bent in strange ways... I get queasy when I see the faces of these dead, but luckily, the video does not zoom much.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:59 pm

Seeing that picture of the aircraft tail in the wheat field, I wonder with what energy did it flattened the ears, and thus from how high did it fall.
 
hivue
Posts: 2008
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 155):
Please!

I think vio was just suggesting the video could be of another shoot-down. Apparently they happen with a certain regularity in that area.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:00 pm

G'day

Quoting Airbus747 (Reply 128):
Not to be disrespectful, but I wonder and get mixed feelings when some people seem to feel more sorry each time a "Western" nationality is present in the fatalities count (or tops it).

I am appalled each time media ask if there was a citizen from XYZ having been killed, media also love to point out casualties among children and women. American media being the most vocal or reckless here.

I feel this is totally disrespectful to all not having the privilege of being a citizen of XYZ, a women or a child, after all we are talking human beings and as such we should all be considered equals. Not very realistic I know, I stop daydreaming right now!  


Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
DCA2011
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 137):

There is a terrible video on the liveleak site without any blur of charcoaled people ... closeups ... Terrible and deffinetly not for the fainth hearted ...  

Just saw it. Awful. There was an article on the NY times earlier about the crash and it talked about how the bodies were in various stages of undress. In an air crash, don't partially undressed bodies indicate a hull failure at some significant altitude and a subsequent wind tunnel effect?
Where are we going, and why are we in this handbasket?
 
nupogodi
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting DCA2011 (Reply 164):
Just saw it. Awful. There was an article on the NY times earlier about the crash and it talked about how the bodies were in various stages of undress. In an air crash, don't partially undressed bodies indicate a hull failure at some significant altitude and a subsequent wind tunnel effect?

People lose various items of clothing just falling off a motorcycle at low speeds, I wouldn't think too deeply about this.
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
antskip
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:03 pm

Crew list of MH17 plublished by http://www.ibtimes.com/.
Captain: Wan Amran Bin Wan Hussin (male, 50 years old)

Captain: Eugene Choo Jin Leong (male, 45 years old)

Vice- captain: Ahmad Hakimi Bin Hanapi (male, 29 years old)

Vice- captain: Muhamad Firdaus Bin Abdul Rahim (male, 27 years old)

Mohd Ghafar Bin Abu Bakar (male, 54 years old)

Dora Shamila Binti Kassim (female, 47 years old)

Azrina Binti Yakob (female, 41 years old)

Lee Hui Pin (female, 42 years old)

Mastura Binti Mustafa (female, 40 years old)

Chong Yee Pheng (female, 40 years old)

Shaikh Mohd Noor Bin Mahmood (male, 44 years old)

Sanjid Singh Sandhu (male, 41 years old)

Hamfazlin Sham Binti Mohamed Arifin (female, 42 years old)

Nur Shazana Binti Mohamed Salleh (female, 31 years old)

Angeline Premila Rajandaran (female, 30 years old)
http://www.ibtimes.com/malaysian-air...rs-released-malaysia-media-1631888
 
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Vio
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 160):
I think vio was just suggesting the video could be of another shoot-down. Apparently they happen with a certain regularity in that area.

Thank you hivue. That's exactly what I meant. I wasn't denying that MH17 was shot down. The video itself shows another aircraft shot down, perhaps another day...
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
LovesCoffee
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:04 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 132):
If this is indeed MH17, the belly color is not necessarily a clue since the video's quality is not good.

It may be related to the video's quality but I don't see horizontal stabilizers.

That's what I was going to say (horz stabilizers missing). Also with part of the right wing missing (or damaged) and the right wing/#2 engine on fire. Fuselage looks intact and the engines look right for a 777. Absolutely horrible. My condolences and prayers for the families.
Life is too short for cheap coffee.
 
ranold76
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:04 pm

As much as society is connected today via TV, radio, print and internet through a variety of devices and mediums, I have to tell you that I find the noise-to-signal ratio, when looking for facts, is alarmingly high.
 
Flaps
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 pm

To all those crying criminality, criminal act etc......can the drama. Can you say tragic mistake? Criminal negligence maybe but I highly doubt that whoever pulled the trigger was intentionally targeting a civilian airliner. Heck if the twitter boasts are true its quite apparent that they thought they were shooting at a military aircraft.

The phrase war is hell didn't come out of nowhere. Unfortunately in the REAL world REAL people don't always agree and they don't always settle differences peacefully. Be it a bar fight or all out war between opposing militaries, REAL innocents get caught in the crossfire. This is no different than the Palestinian children, the Israeli children the Boko Haram children or any other innocent anywhere in the world. This is a tragedy for all involved everywhere.

The only political positive for anyone is if this incident led to mankind taking a serious look in the mirror and saying enough. There has to be a better way and then finding that way. That isn't any more likely than me winning $100 million on a lottery ticket I didn't buy.
 
nupogodi
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:07 pm

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 170):

As much as society is connected today via TV, radio, print and internet through a variety of devices and mediums, I have to tell you that I find the noise-to-signal ratio, when looking for facts, is alarmingly high.

MH370 was a lot worse, no thanks to Malaysia.

This time it's almost unanimous agreement about what happened, just not exactly who was responsible. MH370 looks to be a single actor based on what we know, looks like a government or rebel group is responsible in this case. So the shitstorm will be bigger and more misinformation will fly around, but we already have a lot more facts than we did in MH370 and we have the wreckage. God knows this is going to cause geopolitical problems, but in terms of aviation facts, this is pretty clear-cut...
A man must know how to look before he can hope to see.
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting nupogodi (Reply 130):
If the US formally says, "yeah we saw a rocket launch there", I would be VERY hesitant to be sceptical

A Russian helicopter discovered a massive gas explosion that created a huge crater in Siberia the other day. You would think that our super "sensitive" BS system would've picked it up. No, it was picked up by a helicopter by chance by flying around in the area. And the super sensitive system was, the human eye.
 
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Ab345
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 157):

This was my first time seeing actual bodies from a plane crash...extremely shocking..especially the last passenger on that video. While it is good to have evidence (especially in comparison to MH370) , I cannot imagine how the relatives of these passengers are going to get these images out of their minds forever because I m sure they will look at it. That yound kid in the first 5 seconds...oh my god
 
Viscount724
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:09 pm

MH17 should have been landing at KUL right now (0610 local time).
 
hivue
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting ranold76 (Reply 170):
As much as society is connected today via TV, radio, print and internet through a variety of devices and mediums, I have to tell you that I find the noise-to-signal ratio, when looking for facts, is alarmingly high.

I think the one follows from the other. An ad hoc network with no effective control is a great noise producer.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
Klaus
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 162):
See post # 121 Thread 2 by KarelXBW

It would be extremely and above all uncharacteristically stupid for Russia to actually ship their own SAMs into the separatist's area, because that would immediately kill any plausible deniability and make Russia undeniably a direct party and invasion force, which at this stage would be a very high risk for Russia – and catastrophically so after this event.

It is very clear that the separatists have SAMs of some kind, but so far I've not seen Russia making the mistake of being caught out with their hands openly in the cookie jar in eastern Ukraine.
 
flymia
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:11 pm

Quoting antskip (Reply 155):
Please! "Malaysia Airlines confirms it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30km from Tamak waypoint, approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

The user was referring to the videos being posted which are NOT of MH 17. Not that the user believes it was not actually MH 17 that crashed,

The picture the AMS spotter took is just wow, to think that planes last takeoff, the passengers and crew on board just starting what should had been a normal long haul flight.

Just horrible news.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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RWA380
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:13 pm

Quoting yv773p (Reply 81):
I understand it is a war zone but can't the Russia be sued for violating the Chicago convention?

Putin is not concerned with violating anyone or any situation, he has lied to everyone about anything he wanted to.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 86):
We don't know if Russia will keep the black boxes, maybe they are just securing them. The White House confirmed that Obama and Putin have talked on the phone, I presume they will work something out at a later stage

Obama and Putin have "talked on the phone" about Snowden, Ukraine and now this tragedy, talk is cheap.

R.I.P. MH 370 & now MH 17 ...........   
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hivue
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:14 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 169):
To all those crying criminality, criminal act etc......can the drama. Can you say tragic mistake?

As I've mentioned on these forums before, one of the best pieces of advice I ever heard was never attribute to malice that which adequately can be explained by stupidity.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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kann123air
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting ltc8k6 (Reply 122):
I doubt that is 9M-MRO being shot down.

9M-MRO was MH370, -MRD is the one that was downed today.
Going for great
 
sovietjet
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 126):
That's right, which means that either Russia supplied it to the Separists or the Separists stole them from Russia. But they're not coming from Ukraine or were conquered by Separists from the Ukraine like someone claimed earlier.

They certainly could have. Ukraine uses the same SAM systems Russia does. And just recently the rebels captured a Ukrainian SAM base in the region armed with such systems.
 
holzmann
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:20 pm

All news reports I am seeing cite Pentagon sources as confirming missile heat signature and explosion. Sounds like a near open and shut case to me.
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Zkpilot
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 72):
To be more precise:

> 154 Dutch
> 27 Australian
> 23 Malaysian
> 11 Indonesian
> 6 British
> 4 German
> 4 Belgian
> 4 Filipino
> 1 Canadian

47x still unknown

1x New Zealander so 46x unknown.
64 types. 44 countries. 24 airlines.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:27 pm

Quoting holzmann (Reply 180):

All news reports I am seeing cite Pentagon sources as confirming missile heat signature and explosion. Sounds like a near open and shut case to me.
Quoting holzmann (Reply 180):
Sounds like a near open and shut case to me.

There is no such thing. Russia had that missile system, Ukraine had it too and supposedly the "insurgents" had at least one working unit with missiles.

Confirming a missile strike should be easy if neutral investigators can get to the site and examine the a/c and some of the bodies. Missile/blast damage is fairly tell-tale.

I think the only thing that is certain is that it was a missile strike and even that isn't yet 100% until forensics confirms.

They will also be looking at weather and if that accounted for the change in flight path along with ATC records to find out about requested or suggested altitudes. That being said, this missile system reaches up to 70,000 feet so no civilian plane can fly high enough to avoid them.
 
surfpunk
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 181):
1x New Zealander so 46x unknown.

I've heard U.S. State Department reports that 23 Americans were onboard, so if that accounting is true, that would leave 23x unknown.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:28 pm

I didn't see this posted earlier, an article in The Telegraph regarding a couple and their baby who were moved to the later KLM flight due to MH17 being full:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...shed-because-of-lack-of-seats.html
International Homo of Mystery
 
antskip
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:33 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 181):
1x New Zealander so 46x unknown.

Could the NZer be counted amongst the Australian dead? (i.e.an Australian citizen with a NZ passport). The NZ Herald just says "NZ Passport holder". Of course that begs the question of what is meant by "Australian". Citizens or passport holders? Around 10% of the murdered passengers were "Australian".

[Edited 2014-07-17 15:35:40]
 
tu204
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:35 pm

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 181):
Confirming a missile strike should be easy if neutral investigators can get to the site and examine the a/c and some of the bodies.

You are right.

But in this case it's hard to fnd a "neutral" investigator. I guess we should start calling up Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Tuvalu for officials. I am not joking, this incident has very few neutral parties to it.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
ComeAndGo
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:36 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 173):
It is very clear that the separatists have SAMs of some kind, but so far I've not seen Russia making the mistake of being caught out with their hands openly in the cookie jar in eastern Ukraine

Yet Russia did have military vehicles and special forces in Crimea. And they were not the ones stationed in Sevastopol. Those vehicles had different identification numbers.

Furthermore, Ukraine has no need for SAMs in this conflict since the Separatists don't have any aircraft.
 
sipadan
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting surfpunk (Reply 181):
I've heard U.S. State Department reports that 23 Americans were onboard, so if that accounting is true, that would leave 23x unknown.

I heard the same, HOWEVER, and this seems impossible, the state dept. now says that "so far, there are no indications of any Americans being on board". I can't believe this would be possible, but this IS what is being reported. Nb...so far.

Confusing.

[Edited 2014-07-17 15:42:35]
 
Chaostheory
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:44 pm

كل نفس ذائقة الموت

Heartbreaking for the families concerned.
 
antskip
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:47 pm

Youtube recording of the real-time report of the downing of MH17 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbyZYgSXdyw&feature=youtu.be

[Edited 2014-07-17 15:48:32]
 
fpetrutiu
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:48 pm

July 17th will not be remembered kindly in the aviation world.

1996 TWA 800, 230 souls
2007 TAM3054, 199 souls
2014 MH17 295 souls (the plane made its maiden flight precisely 17 years ago on July 17)


Rest in peace to all those who lost their lives in these awful tragedies.
Florin
Orlando, FL
 
Klaus
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:51 pm

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 182):
Yet Russia did have military vehicles and special forces in Crimea. And they were not the ones stationed in Sevastopol. Those vehicles had different identification numbers.

Yes, but they were willing to bear the material and political cost for the krimean invasion. Eastern Ukraine has become a lot more expensive since then. It was likely already priced out of their reach and useful only as a way of hurting the ukrainian government, not actually occupying the area outright as before.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 182):
Furthermore, Ukraine has no need for SAMs in this conflict since the Separatists don't have any aircraft.

Indeed.
 
 
Klaus
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:01 pm

Quoting tu204 (Reply 181):
But in this case it's hard to fnd a "neutral" investigator. I guess we should start calling up Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Tuvalu for officials. I am not joking, this incident has very few neutral parties to it.

Counter-arguments:

• There are many excellent aviation incident investigators with a proven record.

• The investigation needs to be transparent and verifiable anyway.

• The actual crash investigation will not be the controversial part of this entire affair – even the type of missile is pretty much already known.

If any parts of the missiles themselves should be recovered, their serial numbers might shed some light on the perpetrators, however.

[Edited 2014-07-17 16:03:46]
 
flymia
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:04 pm

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthi...ger-joked-about-disappearing-plane

This really makes it hit hard. Crazy, and very very eerie.

Quote:
Cor Pan, reportedly a Dutch passenger on the downed Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, made a joke about the flight on Facebook before taking off Thursday morning.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:07 pm

Unfortunately, it appears more and more that separatists operating in the eastern Ukraine got their hands on a 9K37 Buk battlefield SAM system, thought they were shooting down another Ukrainian military plane, and unfortunately ended up shooting down an MH 772ER with 295 people on board.  
 
RightRudder
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:10 pm

Here is an article of the similarities in equipment of Board 1 and MH 17. Not sure if this had been previously posted or if there is any correlation to MH 17 being mistaken for Putin's plane.

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
 
B707MT
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:10 pm

Thoughts and prayers also for the hard-working en-route and high-altitude air traffic controllers - everywhere in Europe and the Middle East, but especially in the Balkans and Turkey - tonight, as well as the pilots in the skies.

Their workload has just increased exponentially in tragic circumstances. Let's hope that everyone in, and every part of, the system continues to work at their safest and best.

[Edited 2014-07-17 16:51:10]
 
ytz
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
The BUK (or SA-11) system does not just consist of the launcher tank depicted in the pictures. Actuallya BUK batteryconsists of 4 launcher tanks, a launcher/loader tank , a command tank and a tank with a surveillance radar, plus assorted trucks for supply and support. I would guess that the system requires at least 30 trained soldiers to set it up and to operate it (plus an equal sized security element). It isn't just aim, press the trigger once, wait for the beep as the signal that the heat seeker has locked onto the target and press the trigger again to launch the missile. I wonder how the separatists got such a trained crew together, unless a whole SA-11 (BUK) battery has switched sides to them.

Ummm. You sure it doesn't have a free fire targeting mode?
 
royaldutchgirl
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:12 pm

The registration was 9M-MRD right?

In the media I saw a story about a passenger who posted a picture on his FB of the aircraft just before boarding MH17... Very surreal and shocking, but look at the registration... It says -RC ! Here's the news item:

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/31172/Rampv...vrezen-voor-lot-dorpsgenoten.dhtml

And the link to the picture:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=465419050262262&set=a.121009184703252.21333.100003825135026&type=1

Very strange!!
 
osiris30
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:13 pm

Quoting hivue (Reply 150):
Quoting Viper911 (Reply 118):
Someone should remind Mr. Engel about IR655 then.

Correct. The US is living in a glass house on this.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Arguing that this is okay because of equally horrific situation doesn't make either of them okay. That sort of childish logic is one reason we have all these problems in the world. (Not directed at you directly hivue, but the line of conversation in general).

RIP to those who died for no reason at all.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:20 pm

Malaysian Airlines has to be the most unlucky airline this year.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:26 pm

Quoting rightrudder (Reply 193):
Here is an article of the similarities in equipment of Board 1 and MH 17. Not sure if this had been previously posted or if there is any correlation to MH 17 being mistaken for Putin's plane.

http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

Amazing Russian propaganda. They really want/need to change the prevailing story line that Russian-armed rebels downed the bird.

So they'll say that the Ukrainians accidentally shot down a bird at 30 000 feet, using binoculars for crude visual confirmation? Are we to seriously believe that trained Ukrainians air defence operators are that stupid? Also have to assume that they are stupid enough to believe that the Russian President is overflying a warzone in his presidential bird without a fighter escort.

Amateurs may make that kind of mistake. Professionals don't.
 
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Qatara340
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 2:07 am

RE: Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes In Ukraine Part 3

Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:31 pm

لا حول ولا قوة الا بالله العلي العظيم

May God Rest their souls in heaven. Its the holy month, and last ten days of Ramadan; in Islam, it is the time where all the gates to heaven are open.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله

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