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coolian2
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:58 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 38):
But two in four months... that is unprecedented in this century if we discount AA in 2001 (but one was hardly an accident)

What on earth do you consider MH17, I almost hesitate to ask???
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mattya9
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:31 pm

Since they only have a handful of 777's how will this affect their schedules? According to Wikipedia, they had 13 777's at the beginning of the year and now they're down to 11 in only 5 months. How will they compensate for this sudden loss? I'm guessing they would usually have one or two aircraft standing by in case they needed one (due to a maintenance problem, weather, etc.) but now those spares are put into daily use which doesn't give them any wiggle room. Again, this is just an assumption on my part. Anyone have any insight/ideas?

OPS 5
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SCQ83
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:45 pm

Quoting coolian2 (Reply 50):
What on earth do you consider MH17, I almost hesitate to ask???

Some Western airlines did not fly over Ukranian air space lately. So while maybe it was technically allowed, some others took preventive measures. I think that will fire back to MH, coupled with the mystery about MH370. I am not blaming MH or the pilots, but it is clear that airlines that already did not fly over Eastern Ukraine weren't in risk.

11-S was a completely different thing. The fact that there were AA aircraft involved was completely circumstantial to the general public. No one was more "scared" to fly after 11-S in an American Airlines aircraft rather than in a Delta flight (even if DL was not involved in the 11-S attacks) since this was seen as a general terrorist attack that affected the whole system. I bet most people in the US today have no idea of which commercial carriers were involved in the attacks.

But Chinese, Australian or European passengers booking their next trip connecting somewhere in the Middle East or SE Asia will remember that Malaysia Airliners is the airline that lost two big aircrafts in obscure circumstances. Considering that MH does not have such a large local base (and they can easily fly Air Asia almost anywhere short and medium haul, or Singapore Airlines anywhere in the world down the road), I can't see how they will keep up in the short term considering their previous financial issues. Unless since it is government owned they don't care and keep losing money.
 
330lover
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:48 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Reply 51):

They have (according to airfleets.net) 14 active 777's, so leaves now 13. 2 more are stored, so could be put back into service.
They also have 19 active 330's, so they can take a 777 from regional routes if they need the range and operate 330 in stead.
Some stored 330's or 744's could come in handy too.

So I don't think they will have big issues to operate (nearly) as scheduled...
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AA777223
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:07 pm

Honestly, I think this may change the way many of think of MH. Before this incident, the last thought in many peoples' minds was of MH370. What happened? Did the pilot go rogue? Was the aircraft poorly maintained? Is their security sufficient? etc.

Now, the most recent incident in peoples' minds in an event largely out of their control. The attention is focused on the "evil perpetrators" of this atrocity. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND, I am not saying this event is beneficial, in any way. I am simply saying that having an event totally outside of your control, in the hands of a group portrayed as careless and trigger happy, makes them look less culpable in the public eye, I predict. I certainly am prepared to be proven wrong.
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peterinlisbon
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:11 pm

Does anyone know if other planes were flying the same route over Eastern Ukraine? How many European and Asian widebodies passed over the same area in the few days before this happened? I bet if I looked at flightradar history I'd find half of Europe's airlines have left tracks over this area.
 
mattya9
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 53):

How many aircraft do they have stored? I guess that's the bigger question because if they have 19 active 330's the routes they (330's) fly will be affected if they're used to replace the 777 regional routes (when the 777 regional route aircraft are used to replace these 2 missing 777's). I guess the point I'm getting at is unless they have aircraft sitting around and not flying at all some routes will be affected by this. But, as you mentioned, if they have a couple stored 744's this solves the problem. Hope I made some sense there.  

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allrite
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:27 pm

My wife, who is of Malaysian origin, told me tonight she wouldn't fly MH as they are jinxed. Don't discount the impact of superstitious belief on their near term operations. It's going to be tough on MH for a while until they "prove themselves" again.
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jetwet1
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:31 pm

I'm going to be very careful with my wording on this post, I have no way to prove what I am about to say, so please feel free to treat it as a rumor:

Quoting enobar (Reply 19):
If the airline wants to survive, they would want to have a crisis management team and a branding expert on board ASAP. At the very least they should be changing their livery and branding to distance themselves from the image of their 777's which have been all over every news outlet being associated with a disaster for the last 5 months...

This is true, it was actually being done before MH370. MH wanted to gain credibility with the CAA and FAA, along with potential investors. They recruited some very sharp people to go through their organization top to bottom, covering everything airline related. I happen to know one of the people recruited by them, he came from a very large airline and was an instructor on the T7. In talking to him a couple of weeks after he got there, he commented on how open and willing MH were to the "outsiders" suggestions, even before final reports were done changes were adopted, little things, in much the same way as Korean did when they had issues, though MH appeared to be more accepting of the suggestions.

Quoting cipango (Reply 32):
I thoroughly enjoy travelling but I feel awful about the fact that I want to cancel my tickets with MH for December. MH370 would never put me off flying - it was simply an isolated incident to a great airline. But MH17 in the same year does not give me a boost of confidence for the airline, regardless of whose fault it was. MH have had 2 crashes this year and it may very well conclude that both were not the responsibility of the airline but it just does not sit well for me.

MH370 would put so many people off flying with MH. Those that it didn't bother would surely think twice following MH17.

My heart breaks for a company in this situation.

Again, my friend was directly involved in the adjustments made to the training for the T7 pilots, needless to say, when MH370 disappeared it was a crazy time, in his word, the airline was in shock, kind of like "after making these improvements and seeing a change for the good, how does this happen?"

Of course now MH17 happens, I have not been able to reach my friend yet, but in talking to people who know people (normally worthless I know) MH itself, the employees, are in trouble, it's not a money issue, it's a physiological one now, I think we have all been in a situation at work where you are thinking things are great, nothing can go wrong, then bang, a kick in the teeth from out of nowhere. Well here we have have a work force that took pride in their company, just recovering from a kick in the teeth, when someone comes along wearing steel toe caps, just to make sure the job was done right.

I am with cipango, my heart breaks for MH, and of course for the families of all on board.

As I said, treat what I wrote above as a rumor.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:55 pm

The Malaysian government and MH somehow remain in their stubborn viewpoint. 'All is going to be fine. We will overcome this and everything will be Okay.' I really wonder how much longer they'll continue to keep this up.
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
slider
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:07 pm

The economic impact of catastrophic crashes is always a tricky thing to determine. There's direct costs, which are largely covered by insurance: war risk insurance, hull and aircraft insurance, as well as the costs of the emergency response, and so on. But the brand damage is a very nebulous thing to figure out. Part of it depends on causal factors but also how much brand equity a name has.

I'll never forget what a masterful job AA did with its TV ads and the focus on safety...you know, that one with the mechanic wlking through the terminal drinking coffee and he sees the little boy by the window looking at the planes? It was great PR for them.

For MH, tough to tell given their profile and footprint. I honestly don't know if this is something that would move them to or from being nationalized.

Quoting RomeoBravo (Thread starter):
Do you think MH is guilty of incompetence or is it pure bad luck?

Not incompetence. How would they be guilty of that? If the pilot went bonkers and rogue, did they know? We don't know. And as for getting shot down, how would that remotely be their fault? It's extraordinarily bad luck.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
US Air recovered from a bad year in 1994....feeding a storyline of 5 crashes in 5 years.

They also have to rebrand to US Airways, repaint planes, retire older ones, and make a VERY concerted effort to amp things up.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
800 did TWA in...they had a lot of problems beforehand, it was one of the final nails

Disagree. If anything, it actually helped TW because they retired the 747s rapidly, which was not economically viable to begin with given their state of things. Carl Icahn and Karabu had a permanent, structural anchor around their neck moreso than ANY crash would ever have, not to mention their limited network at the time that they could neither organically grow to exploit (ie: building up JFK) nor merge away their problems.

800 had a far greater impact on morale than anything economic.
 
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AA777223
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:16 pm

Quoting mattya9 (Reply 56):
How many aircraft do they have stored? I guess that's the bigger question because if they have 19 active 330's the routes they (330's) fly will be affected if they're used to replace the 777 regional routes (when the 777 regional route aircraft are used to replace these 2 missing 777's). I guess the point I'm getting at is unless they have aircraft sitting around and not flying at all some routes will be affected by this. But, as you mentioned, if they have a couple stored 744's this solves the problem. Hope I made some sense there.  

Airfleets says they have two 777s stored (awfully convenient). Can that be right?
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whisperjet
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:28 pm

MH might also benefit from the fact that all 777s are in the old livery and are scheduled to be phased out soon. Minimizes the problems related to the visual impressions people get and remember from the pictures of the crash scenes and those used for illustration purposes in the media.
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lightsaber
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Pan Am had 5 fatal 707 crashes in 9 months in 1973/74 (one a terrorist attack on the ground at FCO) and it had little or no effect on them. People have very short memories and many people these days don't even pay attention to the news. And the latest MH event doesn't seem to be the airline's fault in any way.

You should read the book "Sky Gods." Pan Am's logo became know as the 'blue ball of death' thanks to those crashes. There profits turned to losses for years due to those crashes. They didn't go bankrupt until 1991. Also, it was during regulation...

Quoting RomeoBravo (Thread starter):

MH is government owned so bankruptcy isn't a concern but you'd expect the brand to be very tainted by the events of this year.

MH is done as a brand for years. Sad... but true. Losing one 777 is a tragedy, losing two is careless.

Quoting enobar (Reply 19):
Pan Am is probably not the best example - they were one of the Pioneers of international air travel and became synonymous with glamour and luxury in the skies. Malaysia is not starting from such lofty heights - they were in financial trouble even before MH370.

   But Pan Am suffered.

Lightsaber
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CXfirst
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting aa777223 (Reply 54):
Now, the most recent incident in peoples' minds in an event largely out of their control. The attention is focused on the "evil perpetrators" of this atrocity.

I do agree, however, the simple fact that the two big incidents this year are both MH jets, with the first still remaining a mystery (so it had front page news for a long time), will stick in peoples minds.

MH17 alone would have been regarded as the jet that got shot down, but because MH was already a talking point this year, MH will be remembered, in at least the short-term future, as the airline that lost 2 planes with a combined total of 500+ people. Perhaps unfair on MH, but that's the reality.

As for MH going under, I don't believe the Malaysian government would let that happen, but stranger things have happened in aviation. MH hasn't exactly been doing too well lately, and perhaps Malaysia might let them die, knowing that there is another capable airline that can serve domestically (Air Asia).

-CXfirst
 
drgmobile
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:37 pm

This was an approved international route by ICAO. It is unreasonable and a bit silly to expect every airline to second guess the international authority charged with evaluating such things. If anybody should be asked questions, it's the International Civil Aviation Organization.

http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/20.../18/route-used-mh17-approved-icao/
 
uberflieger
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:41 pm

A good article about MH and the difficulties it faces.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/malays...-a-difficult-future-135129770.html
 
drgmobile
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 38):
Even if MH370's fate was quite obscure, one plane loss would be "acceptable" for most passengers. That "can" happen. Air France, Swiss... But two in four months... that is unprecedented in this century if we discount AA in 2001 (but one was hardly an accident).

Based on all indications, at least one was not an accident and most likely NEITHER were.

What is most relevant to this discussion is the financial impact of two crashes in such short order to an airline, regardless of the cause. Hull loss, lost capacity, lawsuits and legal settlements, and costs associated with the two investigations, recovery etc... will only partially be offset by insurance. Any major aircraft accident takes a major financial and psychological toll on a carrier.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:46 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 27):
Has any other airline had 2 crashes within 5 months from one another?

I think this was written before your question, did you not see it?

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Pan Am had 5 fatal 707 crashes in 9 months in 1973/74
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
bennett123
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:55 pm

zkncl

9M-MPD has been with Eaglexpress for 2 yrs.

9M-MPM joined it in May 2014.
 
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golfradio
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:58 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 63):
losing two is careless

How can the second be MH's fault? The airspace was NOTAMed only upto FL320. And they weren't the only ones using that airway either. SQ was right behind them.
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usdcaguy
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 65):

This was an approved international route by ICAO. It is unreasonable and a bit silly to expect every airline to second guess the international authority charged with evaluating such things. If anybody should be asked questions, it's the International Civil Aviation Organization.

http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/20.../18/route-used-mh17-approved-icao/


Yes, I agree. However, each carrier is ultimately responsible for the safety of its own staff, customers and equipment. It may be time for carriers with extensive international operations to do their own research to assess the situation before flying hundreds of passengers into a potential war zone. Perhaps hiring a firm specialized in international risk assessment would be prudent going forward given new surface-to-air military technologies.
 
ytz
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:15 pm

Aren't people generally more superstitious in that part of the world? I could see that affecting confidence in the airline.
 
andrej
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:24 pm

What a horrible tragedy. RIP to the victims.

Quoting golfradio (Reply 70):

How can the second be MH's fault? The airspace was NOTAMed only upto FL320. And they weren't the only ones using that airway either. SQ was right behind them.

I wonder that as well. If Eurocontrol and Ukraine ATC had no problems with issued flight plan. If deemed safe, any airline would consider costs to make a profit (which is a reasonable assumption).

That airspace should have been shut, given the fact that planes were shot down there.
 
joeytaffy93
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:54 pm

I can only hope the airline survives... It's an airline I've heard good things about and would like to try out.

Regardless of the outcome for MH, I can only say my thoughts are currently with all those that were lost on MH370 and MH17, their families as well as all MH employees, such a difficult time which I can't even begin to imagine what they're going through.
 
A388CC
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:17 pm

Because MH is government owned I don't think it will go bankrupt. I think it's just pure bad luck for the airline and I think things for the airline are going to be tough for the next year or so. They have lost 2 777's which is probably going to affect their services and they have lost most or all faith in the Public. I read today that they are offering a full refund to all passengers scheduled to fly with them up until July 25th if they do not feel comfortable flying with the airline.

Some airlines have been in the same situation and gone bust or survived through it. Hopefully MH won't go.
 
ytz
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:29 pm

MH may well be forced into bankruptcy and reformation into a new airline out of any compensation claims arising.
 
peterinlisbon
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:47 pm

If we want to criticise MH we should also say the same about Air India and Singapore Airlines. We could just as easily be looking at pictures of Air India's Birmingham flight or any other airline that passed over that day. Nobody knew about the fact that the rebels had these weapons (missiles capable of reaching 72,000 ft) except for Russia, which supplied them. As far as I'm concerned I would not blame Malaysia Airlines. The blame lies with the Russian government which supplied these weapons in secret (which prevented the appropriate precautionary measures being taken), then lied (again) about what had happened. At the very least you would think that along with the missile system they could have handed over a 100$ smartphone with radar24, then they would actually know who they were shooting at.

Regarding MH's future, I personally really like this airline and I hope they have a good future. Both of these events were down to outside factors and could just as easily have happened to any other airline. I hope that the country will support its national airline because I think it's important for the country's development and connection to rest of the world.
 
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golfradio
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 76):

Also I think the insurance companies will most likely invoke the force majeure clause. This is definitely going to be expensive for MH. This is really a bum rap for them.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting 330lover (Reply 48):
Quoting trent1000 (Reply 46):
I just wondered if MH will quickly retire flight number 17, as they did so with 370 just days after that flight disappeared.

Quite quickly:

25JUL --- 1234567 AMS KUL 1200# 0610 MH 19 772 B
--- 24JUL 1234567 AMS KUL 1200# 0610 MH 17 772 B

If they continue at this pace, they will run out of double digit flight numbers soon
 
daedaeg
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:33 pm

They have not only lost 2 planes, but upwards of 30 crew members in 4 months. That has to be a strain on them as well.
Everyday you're alive is a good day.
 
copenhagenboy
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:39 pm

Don't forget that SQ from CPH to SIN was only 25 km or 2-3 minutes behind the MH flight, according to flightradars.

Edit to say that I don't know if they were in different FL.

[Edited 2014-07-18 12:48:16]
 
mptpa
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:44 pm

There are airlines that survived despite the root cause being their own. In MH's case, first, my heart goes out all those innocent victims. We do not know what happened to MH370, and we do know MH17 was blown out . Having said that, should MH17 have filed a flight plan that goes above volatile area? Perhaps. But they did ask for FL350 and the Ukrainian ATC gave them FL330, which was just 1000' above the restricted airspace. Knowing that 2 Ukrainian aircraft have been blown out in the previous days, perhaps Eurocontrol should not have accepted the flight plan, or perhaps Ukrainian ATC should have rerouted them. So it is premature to say MH is 100% in the wrong, but hindsight is 20% and who knows what their risk management, risk tolerance and what their insurance carriers said.

What MH needs to do is manage this crisis effectively, unlike how they did MH370. I would suspect that they would go through a image rehabilitation and rebranding like KAL did. Because they are, for intents and purposes, government owned, they will survive through severe red ink.

I just hope and pray there is nothing like this ever again and the airlines take a more proactive approach to risk taking to save an hour of flight time.
 
D L X
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
Aviation geeks and those directly effected remember Colorado Springs or Pittsburgh.

Colorado Springs? I think you are mistaken as to whose plane that was.
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 76):
MH may well be forced into bankruptcy and reformation into a new airline out of any compensation claims arising.

Very difficult to force a state entity into bankruptcy. It will cost same to tax payers dead or alive. Actually to shutdown Government has to clear all debts immediately. MH is partially owned by state owned banks. Doesn't make it easy either.

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 77):
If we want to criticise MH we should also say the same about Air India and Singapore Airlines.

If the working theory is true AI has no issues. Putin and Modi (Indian PM) were returning from BRICS summit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF1g6...PLxx0m3vtiqMZUa10x83mPnGOXgZIJq55s
All posts are just opinions.
 
joeytaffy93
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting d l x (Reply 83):
Colorado Springs? I think you are mistaken as to whose plane that was.

Wasn't that UA 585? If I recall a 737-200?

[Edited 2014-07-18 13:57:55]
 
homer787
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):

103 did Pan Am in...they had a lot of problems beforehand, it was one of the final nails

800 did TWA in...they had a lot of problems beforehand, it was one of the final nails

Deregulation, and a non existent domestic route network killed Pan Am.

The first Gulf War and Frank Lorenzo killed TWA.

MH needs to rebrand ala US and Valuejet a.k.a Air Tran, and they will be fine.
 
D L X
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:24 pm

I think they'll be fine if they can get their financial house in order. For instance, we're 87+ posts in on this thread, and while AA has been mentioned many times, people have seemingly forgotten their 4 non-9/11 related crashes since 1995. No rebranding (well, no full rebranding until very recently) and no name change was required.
 
EMAman
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:28 pm

MH will survive. They are one of the best airlines in the world (and state owned anyway). I am deeply saddened by the events of 2014, but basically they are the victims of an incredible coincidence of circumstances. Having lost MH370, what kind of fete selected another MH777 for the incident I will never know.

I don't see any way that they operated either MH370 or MH17 any differently to any other airline. The tracking issues which are the iconic issue with MH370 will apply to any other airline, and other major carriers were using those same routes over the Ukraine eg SIA, Lufthansa, Turkish etc etc

Korean air and China Airlines recovered in the 90's and early 2000's when they were smahing up one aircraft after another, and in most cases as a result of their own blithering and clear incompetence. MH have been the victim of one of the biggest coincidences in aviation history, but they do happen.

There are obvious issues that come out of these incidents such as tracking and whether civilian aircraft should have been flying over Ukraine, but none of those factors are unique to MH.

Lockerbie did not kill Panam and TWA 800 did not kill TWA, those airlines were both crippled by a miscellany economic factors.

MH will survive this.
 
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ZKNCL
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 69):

Hi,
You may have misunderstood what I stated. I mentioned two 777's - MRD and MRN instead of two 744s.

ZKNCL
 
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reffado
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:56 pm

Is it possible that we see routes being axed or new planes being leased to compensate for the loss of two long haul aircraft? I mean, surely MH operated with a some slack on schedules, but losing 2 777's seems like it would affect route plans of anyone who isn't EK.
 
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ZKNCL
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RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:20 pm

Quoting reffado (Reply 90):

No, expect to see 772 MRN return to active service to replace MRD. MRN is still an active aircraft, although it has not flown in months.

ZKNCL
 
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SLCUT2777
Posts: 3479
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
Ukraine. The country's economy was already in shambles, now they'll be losing tons of overflight fee revenue. DL pulled out a few years ago, well before the crisis began, and now EK is leaving after a matter of months. I suspect other airlines may quickly follow suit as demand tanks even further - the world has suddenly realized just how bad the situation in Ukraine really is.

The Ukraine is pretty much very quickly degenerating into the former Yugoslavia of the 1990s, and without question will turn into Europe's next "mess."


As for the future of MH, it might be a state-owned or "Crown Corporation" but the taxpayers will only put up with an unsustainable Ponzi Scheme for so long. It's been the ugly stepsister of the split with SQ back in 1972, and has struggled comparatively.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
bennett123
Posts: 10603
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Impact On MH?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:55 pm

ZKNCL

Sorry, my mistake.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Impact On MH?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:11 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 39):
Swissair did not re-brand, nor did they have the need. SR had a stellar reputation and was widely considered the best airline in the world.

Unfortunately, Swissair's management wasn't as "stellar" as their service, or they might still exist.
 
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VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Impact On MH?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:17 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 94):
Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 39):
Swissair did not re-brand, nor did they have the need. SR had a stellar reputation and was widely considered the best airline in the world.

Unfortunately, Swissair's management wasn't as "stellar" as their service, or they might still exist.

We were talking about the airline's reputation - not the management.
And SR didn't exactly have chapter 11 or a blank check from the government.
 
Flightsimboy
Posts: 1777
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 12:49 pm

RE: Impact On MH?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:35 am

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 37):
MH will be ok, if only because the Malaysian government is better off running a loss-making airline that provides the nation with many employment, business, trade, and tourism opportunities than running a near-empty KUL (which would be the case if MH went bust) that provides no benefits to the country, but still drains Malaysian coffers.

Tragedies aside, I think MH is in a more viable position today than it ever was in the past 2 decades or so. It's finally in a strong global alliance, all of those ridiculous vanity routes are gone (MH never had reason to be serving the likes of New York or Buenos Aires, where even the wealthiest jetsetters probably couldn't recognize the Petronas Towers or find Kuala Lumpur on a map), and it turns out that the airline's bread and butter routes like London and Paris are safe from LCC competition after all.

MH's troubles pale in comparison to those of Ukraine. The country's economy was already in shambles, now they'll be losing tons of overflight fee revenue. DL pulled out a few years ago, well before the crisis began, and now EK is leaving after a matter of months. I suspect other airlines may quickly follow suit as demand tanks even further - the world has suddenly realized just how bad the situation in Ukraine really is.

You could not have said it better!

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 63):
losing two is careless.
Quoting golfradio (Reply 70):
How can the second be MH's fault? The airspace was NOTAMed only upto FL320. And they weren't the only ones using that airway either. SQ was right behind them.
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 77):
If we want to criticise MH we should also say the same about Air India and Singapore Airlines. We could just as easily be looking at pictures of Air India's Birmingham flight or any other airline that passed over that day. Nobody knew about the fact that the rebels had these weapons (missiles capable of reaching 72,000 ft) except for Russia, which supplied them. As far as I'm concerned I would not blame Malaysia Airlines. The blame lies with the Russian government which supplied these weapons in secret (which prevented the appropriate precautionary measures being taken), then lied (again) about what had happened. At the very least you would think that along with the missile system they could have handed over a 100$ smartphone with radar24, then they would actually know who they were shooting at.

True, there were other aircraft in the area as well.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 39):
SR had a stellar reputation and was widely considered the best airline in the world.
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 77):
Regarding MH's future, I personally really like this airline and I hope they have a good future. Both of these events were down to outside factors and could just as easily have happened to any other airline. I hope that the country will support its national airline because I think it's important for the country's development and connection to rest of the world.
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 77):
Regarding MH's future, I personally really like this airline and I hope they have a good future. Both of these events were down to outside factors and could just as easily have happened to any other airline. I hope that the country will support its national airline because I think it's important for the country's development and connection to rest of the world.
Quoting EMAman (Reply 88):
MH will survive. They are one of the best airlines in the world (and state owned anyway)
Quoting EMAman (Reply 88):
MH will survive this.

So glad to see the positive feeling with MH....and I'll echo it again. MH will survive.

Quoting EMAman (Reply 88):
Korean air and China Airlines recovered in the 90's and early 2000's when they were smahing up one aircraft after another, and in most cases as a result of their own blithering and clear incompetence. MH have been the victim of one of the biggest coincidences in aviation history, but they do happen.

True, those airlines have had crashes. And look how those airlines are doing now....MH will survive!
LAX772LR - "Answer to goofy question:" in response to my question about the B737-MAX8 being grounded. 48 hours later all B737-MAX8 grounded worldwide. Go figure!!
 
EMAman
Posts: 206
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:13 pm

RE: Impact On MH?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:37 am

Unfortunately the two MH incidents have attracted a lot more publicity than other crashes eg the KE / CI incidents in the 90's / 2000's and that is why there is so much speculation about their future.
1. Two incidents so close together
2. They occur after a 5 year run of almost no major accidents in the developed world
3. The mystery of MH370 gripped the world as does the politics of MH17, so two real headline grabbers
4. Both 777's which have a previously incredible safety record
5. Out of character for MH who also have a previously incredible safety record

This is why the two MH incidents are gripping the world. They will survive it.
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:11 am

RE: Impact On MH?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:10 am

The loss of two wide-body airliners within such a short space of time by one airline is unprecedented ... this coupled with the precarious financial state of Malaysia Airlines will make the case for re-branding and re-structuring a compelling one.

It must not however be just a cosmetic change ... the airline needs to learn from Japan Airlines experience in turning around a beleaguered airline. Malaysia Airlines had had several turnaround plans which have proven worthless in spite of these being given sexy names and laced with promises.

While the latest accident cannot be blamed on MAS, travellers could possibly become nervous about flying with the airline. In some cultures, superstition could over-ride most other concerns and there is little MAS can do about that.

KC Sim
 
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9MMPD
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:30 pm

RE: Impact On MH?

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:27 am

Quoting aviasian (Reply 98):
The loss of two wide-body airliners within such a short space of time by one airline is unprecedented

AA with the September 11 attacks and then the Queens A300 crash also in NYC

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