usflyguy
Topic Author
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Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:14 pm

Sept 1 - Sept 5, 2014

I'm not sure the validity of this planned "sickout" but if it isn't for real, someone is going through a lot of trouble to make it seem as if it is....

http://www.pilotstrike.com/
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
175erj
Posts: 134
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:20 pm

It's real... it's just hard to know the number that will participate. Also, its noted that its not an entire day, but a week. This is so the crewmember can call out on the first day of his trip, rather than in the middle of it.
 
Mir
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:52 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 1):
It's real... it's just hard to know the number that will participate.

Hopefully not many. Because it's not legal. Unless they're willing to risk their jobs over it, in which case more power to them.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Hopefully not many. Because it's not legal.

According to them, it is. I believe they take it that since it's a mass number of individual actions, it wouldn't be considered an 'organized' effort.

Also, they didn't list SkyWest's starting pay, which means that this only going on between unionized work-groups, or they believe that SkyWest actually does earn a decent amount of money.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Mir
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:12 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
According to them, it is. I believe they take it that since it's a mass number of individual actions, it wouldn't be considered an 'organized' effort.

It's got a date, and it's got a coordinating website. That seems to me to be organized.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flyby519
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:32 pm

They do bring up good points on the website about mainline carriers posting record profits, but regional carriers are still forced to chose between taking concessions or shrinking to nothing.

When times are bad, regionals take paycuts. When times are good, regionals take paycuts.
 
175erj
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):

Risk their jobs? they're just calling out sick... no carrier can prove its part of an organized work action. They all have sick policies in their contracts that they are all smart enough to do this within the confines of.
 
adam42185
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:37 pm

Whoever was responsible for posting this online is an idiot. This is an illegal job action and will be ruled as such. If this catches steam I feel bad for anybody who is actually sick on these days.

That being said the RLA needs to be abolished and pilots should be allowed to strike when management is behaving as they are.
 
N766UA
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Because it's not legal.

Calling out sick isn't legal??
 
Mir
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
Calling out sick isn't legal??

Calling out sick is legal. An organized work disruption without going through the proper channels is not legal.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SPREE34
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting adam42185 (Reply 7):
Whoever was responsible for posting this online is an idiot. This is an illegal job action and will be ruled as such. If this catches steam I feel bad for anybody who is actually sick on these days.

That being said the RLA needs to be abolished and pilots should be allowed to strike when management is behaving as they are.

  

Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
Calling out sick isn't legal??

Calling out sick is fine. An illegal job action isn't and will cost the bargaining unit dearly.

Coordinating one beyond word of mouth is just stupid. He said she said won't hold water in court. A paper, or in this case, digital document trail will, and leaves you plea bargaining at best.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting adam42185 (Reply 7):
Whoever was responsible for posting this online is an idiot. This is an illegal job action and will be ruled as such. If this catches steam I feel bad for anybody who is actually sick on these days.

well True or Not, How would you KNOW whether this is true or just a lot of "Hot Air" until it actually Happens??
And it it's across the Board over a LOT of airlines?? How would you correlate the data to do anything about it??
Then?? What LEGAL footing would you take to DO anything about it??
You're on Shakey Ground on the Face of it !! Are you just blowing Hot Air about it ?? Looks like it to me..
 
N628AU
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:56 pm

Seems to be a very gray area from a legality standpoint. The most anyone can do is probably get an injunction, but against who? Usually sick outs/slow downs/work to rule are individual groups within a single carrier. This being more of an industry wide deal it would be more difficult to hold someone singly responsible.

At the end of the day you are dealing with pilots who also need to abide by an FAR that states they are physically and mentally fir to fly. If they go to a walk in clinic and claim fatigue and the doc excuses them from the trip there is really no recourse the company can take, especially with a pilot that has union representation.
 
kbmiflyer
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:01 pm

The leverage the pilots have is the airlines can't afford to fire them. If they are, there is nobody to replace them.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 11):
well True or Not, How would you KNOW whether this is true or just a lot of "Hot Air" until it actually Happens??

THere are statutes that cover consipracy as well.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
yvphx
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:39 pm

So I have a trip planned to start within these date ranges with DL and EV. What does the airline do for passengers if there is a sickout? Would travel insurance cover me and my family for extra costs incurred because of this possible proposed action.
 
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting 175erj (Reply 6):

Risk their jobs? they're just calling out sick... no carrier can prove its part of an organized work action.

If they're seeing a much higher rate of sick use during those days than normal, yes - they sure can.

Question is, who's willing to roll the dice with their career over this? I sure as hell wouldn't.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:29 pm

Criminal sanctions aren't an option for you conspiracy theorists out there. The airlines can file for an injunction against the union possibly or take action after the fact if its a big sick out.

Sure they can fire or try to fire the pilots but everyone knows that the regional airline pilot shortage is already bad and its getting worse. They can't fill their training slots as it is right now.
 
TW870
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:12 pm

The pilots could pull a real rope-a-dope here with management.

The airlines are going to threaten to fire people and sue the instigators, but they desperately need the pilots' labor. Plus, after paying low wages for so long, they aren't going to get much money in damages suits from the activists - because they're broke! Sure, the airlines can try to sue ALPA, but if you read what is out there, a lot of pilots are frustrated with both ALPA and management, and thus ALPA is going to stay far away from this. If this happens, it is an act by ordinary people who are tired of flying 8-leg days for $20K a year.

At the end of the day, the numbers just do not add up for the airlines. There is an immense need for qualified pilots with good records. Yet management somehow wants that to translate into continual rounds of concessions, and working conditions like those in big box retail. This is simply not going to continue.
 
toltommy
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting yvphx (Reply 15):
So I have a trip planned to start within these date ranges with DL and EV. What does the airline do for passengers if there is a sickout?

1. There won't be. There's no unity to do this.

2. You'd be treated the same as if your flight cancelled for any other reason. The carrier would likely call in a reserve. They'll probably have more pilots sitting airport reserve if this thing looks like it might actually have some traction (but again, it doesn't).

3. But worst case, you'd be booked on another flight, or another carrier and get where you are going a few hours late. Quit screaming "compensate me" already. You have a better chance of a thunderstorm messing up your trip.

Again, this won't happen. For years now, regional pilots have been plotting for the leverage they thought they'd have when the pilot shortage came. It's here, and they've yet to organize anything.
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Maverick623
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:35 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
According to them, it is. I believe they take it that since it's a mass number of individual actions, it wouldn't be considered an 'organized' effort.

LOL, that's the definition of an organized effort.

That being said, the worst that will happen is that a judge says (after the fact, of course), "The extreme increase in sick calls during the period of 1 Sep 2014 thru 5 Sep 2014 is held to be an industrial work action, and is held to be in violation of the Railway Labor Act and the various Collective Bargaining Agreements."

And then life goes on, because we all know the regionals wouldn't be able to replace anybody anyways.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
TWAL1011
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:40 pm

Airline lawyers & lawfirms > regional pilots any day
 
durangomac
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:43 pm

Because there is a organized web site for this event airlines can probably pull the you need a doctor's note type of thing. If you don't have a doctor's note you risk your job especially if the companies warn pilots before the start of the sick-out. This is really similar to what I think the UA pilots did at one point after the merger to protest the slow JCBA talks. When they did a sick out/work slow down and even the union agreed that the event was illegal and not authorized by the union or the law.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:01 pm

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 14):
THere are statutes that cover consipracy as well.

If?? As you say there are Multiple carriers participating? Who are you going to say is part of the conspiracy?? Pilots??
Can you single out a Profession rather than a GROUP?? How about all Black Pilots, or Tall Blonde Pilots or Female Pilots?
How far do yiu think that would fly?? I can tell you. NOWHERE!! If the cospiracy is that broadly based?
Then it becomes a MOVEMENT !! Don't you see?? Civil rights, Gay rights Pilot's rights are "Movements"
You cannot legislate Movements,
Start doing that? And the Pilots will OWN the Airlines they presently fly for. after whipping them in COURT!!
The RAA's best move is to try and reason with the pilots AS an association TO an Association.
That is If,,, they can find someome to speak to. Or? Speak to their own pilot leadership.
But Strong arm tactics?? Yeah, Good Luck on that.. Let me know how that works out for you.. (or Them)
Having been Union and Managment? Unions can to some DASTARDLY stuff when Provoked.
And it won't be the old Strikebreaker head bashing of the early Union movement.
All they have to do is "Work to Rule".. Even they know you can't fire them ALL For "Going by the Book"
In EVERY contract there's stuff managent missed that will "bite them in the Butt". And?
An "astute" Union Member?? Can find any Loophole and Exploit those points.
Enough to Drive you NUTS!! And you think you can change the contract just to close that loophole?
Well you can re-open section 6 but when you do? You're going to re-negotiate the entire contract.
And Grievences are going to be dropping like SNOW!!
 
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:56 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 23):
And Grievences are going to be dropping like SNOW!!

So will the terminations. And grievances can take a looooooooooong time to resolve past first step.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:46 am

With the lousy working conditions and lousy pay scales which pilots endure at most regional airlines, those airline could NOT consider firing or taking any other action against the pilots that fail to report to work and operate a flight. The regional airlines are under staffed because of new government regulations and the lack of qualified pilots. Most pilots mainly accept positions at regional airlines that have a flow up provision to a major airline They will suffer through the hardships of flying at a regional carrier so as to gain a position at a major airline. Individual pilots would NOT be jailed for failing to report to work by calling in sick or for some other reason. The ONLY individuals that would be threatened with being jailed would be top union officers of the affected airlines, if it could be proved that the unions were encouraging or endorsing the individual pilots actions.
There is going to be an increase in pilot shortages at both the regional airlines and major airlines as many pilots are now reaching the age 65 mandatory retirement age. There are few military pilots to fill these positions and few individuals that want to endure the high expense, low salaries and difficult and hard conditions to enter and survive what is required of them to attain a well paying position as a pilot in today's environment.
The glory days of being a pilot are now gone or going away.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
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RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting durangomac (Reply 22):
Because there is a organized web site for this event airlines can probably pull the you need a doctor's note type of thing. If you don't have a doctor's note you risk your job especially if the companies warn pilots before the start of the sick-out.

  

This.


And seriously, let's think for a moment who the pilots who participate in this ill-advised work action are impacting:


  • The customers who now don't get to their destinations on-time



  • Their co-workers in the airport who have to deal with rebooking affected customers



  • Their co-workers in the res centers who will be forced to work mandatory overtime to handle the increased call volumes due to cancellations



  • Their co-workers in inflight who will be denied the opportunity to actually work their flight and get paid for their time



  • So if you're a regional pilot and your goal is to drive customers away from your carrier while also making life difficult for your co-workers and causing friction between workgroups, then have at it, I suppose.   
    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

    Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
     
    xjramper
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:55 am

    Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 23):
    If?? As you say there are Multiple carriers participating? Who are you going to say is part of the conspiracy?? Pilots??
    Can you single out a Profession rather than a GROUP?? How about all Black Pilots, or Tall Blonde Pilots or Female Pilots?
    How far do yiu think that would fly?? I can tell you. NOWHERE!! If the cospiracy is that broadly based?
    Then it becomes a MOVEMENT !! Don't you see?? Civil rights, Gay rights Pilot's rights are "Movements"
    You cannot legislate Movements,
    Start doing that? And the Pilots will OWN the Airlines they presently fly for. after whipping them in COURT!!
    The RAA's best move is to try and reason with the pilots AS an association TO an Association.
    That is If,,, they can find someome to speak to. Or? Speak to their own pilot leadership.
    But Strong arm tactics?? Yeah, Good Luck on that.. Let me know how that works out for you.. (or Them)
    Having been Union and Managment? Unions can to some DASTARDLY stuff when Provoked.
    And it won't be the old Strikebreaker head bashing of the early Union movement.
    All they have to do is "Work to Rule".. Even they know you can't fire them ALL For "Going by the Book"
    In EVERY contract there's stuff managent missed that will "bite them in the Butt". And?
    An "astute" Union Member?? Can find any Loophole and Exploit those points.
    Enough to Drive you NUTS!! And you think you can change the contract just to close that loophole?
    Well you can re-open section 6 but when you do? You're going to re-negotiate the entire contract.
    And Grievences are going to be dropping like SNOW!!

    And this is why unions are bad. I am seriously not trying to start a war here, this is just the mentality of the unions. Instead of trying us vs them, actually work together.

    I will never see it in my lifetime, but I dream the day that all employees are employed based on merit and skill, not based on a protective contract.

    Also, break up your drivel, that hurt my eyes to read.



    Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 26):
    And seriously, let's think for a moment who the pilots who participate in this ill-advised work action are impacting:The customers who now don't get to their destinations on-timeTheir co-workers in the airport who have to deal with rebooking affected customersTheir co-workers in the res centers who will be forced to work mandatory overtime to handle the increased call volumes due to cancellationsTheir co-workers in inflight who will be denied the opportunity to actually work their flight and get paid for their time

    Please, that would make too much sense.
    Look ma' no hands!
     
    IPFreely
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:08 am

    Quoting toltommy (Reply 19):
    But worst case, you'd be booked on another flight, or another carrier and get where you are going a few hours late. Quit screaming "compensate me" already. You have a better chance of a thunderstorm messing up your trip.

    Yeah, cmon yvphx. Are you expecting to get what you paid for? Stop thinking you are entitled to something like that.
     
    apodino
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:40 am

    Without making this into too much of a political thread, given the presidents close ties to Labor Unions, would such an action get the backing of this administration by them not taking any action?
     
    Mir
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:10 am

    Quoting apodino (Reply 30):
    Without making this into too much of a political thread, given the presidents close ties to Labor Unions, would such an action get the backing of this administration by them not taking any action?

    He would do so at the risk of really pissing off the traveling public. Remember when the government sequester started causing delays in the ATC system? That got fixed really quickly. Hell hath no fury like an American whose flight gets cancelled or delayed, so for Obama to back the pilots in a sickout would have very bad political consequences.

    -Mir
    7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
     
    silentbob
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:21 am

    Quoting toltommy (Reply 19):
    1. There won't be. There's no unity to do this.

    I would tend to agree with that. A lot of guys will be hoping to move up a few numbers on the seniority list.

    Quoting apodino (Reply 30):
    Without making this into too much of a political thread, given the presidents close ties to Labor Unions, would such an action get the backing of this administration by them not taking any action?

    There isn't much the president can do. This isn't being pushed by the unions, but by a group of individuals. Those individuals can espouse whatever they want, without any legal liability in a case like this. The organizers are not officially a party to any of the employment contracts. I would suspect that most of the unions will tell their pilots not to participate in official publications.
     
    flyboy730
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:50 am

    I personally hope this gains traction. There's zero justification for the low wages and deplorable QOL that we have in this job.

    I've been a regional FO for the past 7 years and things have to change. I accepted another position and will be done 8/6, so I won't be around for this. I'm on my way to Dubai with 2 other pilots and with any luck, we'll never see US 121 operations again. I have been around for 2 concessions and for the management to have the balls to ask for another one from the pilots, they deserve anything and everything that comes down the pike. I believe I can speak for at least 75% of the pilot group when I say threatening jobs doesn't fly anymore. Especially when nearly everyone puts out an app everyday. Instead of asking for concessions, how about they go to the mainline partners and re-negotiate the contracts that have never been profitable. The race to the bottom is over, the shifting of regional carriers is over, go to the mainlines and actually negotiate to make a profit like any other normal business would do. Chop 2/3 of the worthless waste of space Neanderthal management and let whoever is left negotiate a profitable contract.

    To the people on here who are bashing the regional pilot groups, sickout or no sickout, we are losing pilots every single day who are going overseas. If things do not change, the industry will have massive issues to deal with in the next few years regardless. The airlines are losing the younger group of experienced pilots everyday who if things go right have no intentions of ever coming back. Why would any experienced pilot stay in the US when we can go work 15 years overseas then come back and enjoy a young retirement?
     
    PHX787
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:40 am

    Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
    Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
    Hopefully not many. Because it's not legal.

    According to them, it is. I believe they take it that since it's a mass number of individual actions, it wouldn't be considered an 'organized' effort.

    As anti-union as I am, I have to wonder what is considered a "legal" strike?
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    Vio
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:21 pm

    Quoting flyboy730 (Reply 32):
    I've been a regional FO for the past 7 years and things have to change. I accepted another position and will be done 8/6, so I won't be around for this. I'm on my way to Dubai with 2 other pilots and with any luck, we'll never see US 121 operations again

    Congrats for putting up with it for so long! Good luck with your future career. I'm also hoping to get there in the next few years. The starting salaries at major Canadian carriers are ridiculously low. They're half of what a mechanical engineer would make. The only reason I was able to continue my career as a pilot is because my wife actually has a "real job" as they say it.

    Quoting flyboy730 (Reply 32):
    I have been around for 2 concessions and for the management to have the balls to ask for another one from the pilots, they deserve anything and everything that comes down the pike. I believe I can speak for at least 75% of the pilot group when I say threatening jobs doesn't fly anymore. Especially when nearly everyone puts out an app everyday. Instead of asking for concessions, how about they go to the mainline partners and re-negotiate the contracts that have never been profitable. The race to the bottom is over, the shifting of regional carriers is over, go to the mainlines and actually negotiate to make a profit like any other normal business would do. Chop 2/3 of the worthless waste of space Neanderthal management and let whoever is left negotiate a profitable contract.

    BRAVO!!! I could not have said it better myself!

    Quoting flyboy730 (Reply 32):
    To the people on here who are bashing the regional pilot groups, sickout or no sickout, we are losing pilots every single day who are going overseas. If things do not change, the industry will have massive issues to deal with in the next few years regardless. The airlines are losing the younger group of experienced pilots everyday who if things go right have no intentions of ever coming back. Why would any experienced pilot stay in the US when we can go work 15 years overseas then come back and enjoy a young retirement?

    Exactly! Being a young pilot in North America is accepting to live below poverty line. It just won't be viable anymore... You can't live on $20,000 a year, have a $60,000 student loan and have to be based out of EWR...
    Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
     
    HNLPointShoot
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:27 pm

    Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
    As anti-union as I am, I have to wonder what is considered a "legal" strike?

    Under the Railway Labor Act (which covers airline employees), a union may only call a strike if it cannot reach an agreement on establishing or amending a collective bargaining agreement, and there are a lengthy series of steps involving negotiation and mediation that have to occur before a strike is allowed under the law.
     
    PHX787
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:28 pm

    Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 35):
    Under the Railway Labor Act (which covers airline employees), a union may only call a strike if it cannot reach an agreement on establishing or amending a collective bargaining agreement, and there are a lengthy series of steps involving negotiation and mediation that have to occur before a strike is allowed under the law.

    I see. If people do decide to engage in a strike illegally, are they eligible for arrest?
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    MaverickM11
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:30 pm

    Quoting Mir (Reply 30):
    Hell hath no fury like an American whose flight gets cancelled or delayed,

    American *congressman*. It just happened for once to coincide with the needs of the citizens as well 
    Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 10):
    Calling out sick is fine. An illegal job action isn't and will cost the bargaining unit dearly.

    I don't know why/where airline labor get the impression that airlines can't tell the difference. Every airline is constantly collecting millions of data points on nearly everything, and "calling in sick" looks completely different from an organized sickout. It sticks out like a sore thumb in the data.
    E pur si muove -Galileo
     
    HNLPointShoot
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    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:40 pm

    Quoting PHX787 (Reply 36):
    I see. If people do decide to engage in a strike illegally, are they eligible for arrest?

    No, since the RLA does not impose any criminal penalties on individual employees who act collectively in any kind of industrial action, regardless of whether or not such action was sanctioned by a union. As others have previously mentioned, the worst that would happen to any individual pilot is that they would be fired.
     
    flyby519
    Posts: 1506
    Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:46 pm

    Quoting HNLPointShoot (Reply 38):
    worst that would happen to any individual pilot is that they would be fired.

    Even that would be difficult to make happen. If a pilot is not 'fit to fly' for any mental/physical reason then they are required by FAA regulations to call in sick and not operate an aircraft.
     
    strfyr51
    Posts: 4312
    Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:48 pm

    Quoting xjramper (Reply 27):
    And this is why unions are bad. I am seriously not trying to start a war here, this is just the mentality of the unions. Instead of trying us vs them, actually work together.

    ***************************************************************************************************************************************
    the level of unionism in america has been hard fought and hard WON. Just because you don;t Like Unions does not negate their Value.
    An Individual attempted to Say he would FIRE any pilot who called in sick as it was a JOB action.
    Is it considered a Job action when You call in sick?? I've been lucky enough to have perfect attendance to 21 YEARS,
    I could easily have called in sick many times but the guy I relieve would have had to stay at work for 16 total hours and I don't thing calling in for a wild hair is
    worth screwing my compadre, Calling in sick when you're not is abhorrent to me, If I can come to work? I'm going to,
    But then again?? I'm not fighting for MORE money or a living wage, I do pretty well. And I LEFt the pilot ranks becaue I was unwilling to accept "peanuts" . I 've worked for 31Years with no Layoff at a job I love I might not hit the Big money of $300/Hr
    as a 747 Capt. But My $46/Hr and over $100K per year fir over 25 years will put me in just as good a position ans i've invested well and saved dilligently. Just the same ? Nobody can make it on $20K/Year in this day and age. Pay them for their Skills or go do it yourself for that money if any of you CAN. I'll stand with the regional Pilots. Passengers are important but with no Crew?
    Where exactly are you Going??
     
    N353SK
    Posts: 1018
    Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 am

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:21 pm

    Quoting PHX787 (Reply 36):
    I see. If people do decide to engage in a strike illegally, are they eligible for arrest?

    Union leadership can be jailed for supporting an illegal strike. During the 2005 New York City transit strike several union leaders were jailed.

    The punishment for the front line workers was that for every day of work they illegally skipped they were fined two days pay.
     
    HNLPointShoot
    Posts: 237
    Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:32 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:51 pm

    Quoting N353SK (Reply 41):
    Union leadership can be jailed for supporting an illegal strike. During the 2005 New York City transit strike several union leaders were jailed.

    The punishment for the front line workers was that for every day of work they illegally skipped they were fined two days pay.

    New York City Transit Authority employees are not covered by the Railway Labor Act, since their operations do not cross state lines; those penalties were imposed under a New York State law that bars public employees (including NYCTA employees) from striking.
     
    kellmark
    Posts: 558
    Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:58 pm

    There is a precedent for this "sick out".

    American Airlines in 1999.

    Here is a link.

    http://www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/NEWS/9904/16/american.airlines/index.html

    The pilots lost, big time. Fines of up to 45 million against the union and personal fines against the officers.

    You don't plan 2 months in advance to get "sick". It is simply an organized job action which is illegal, as the American Airlines situation shows.

    I sympathize with the regional pilots. Most don't make enough pay in the first few years to stay off food stamps, and as a result their living conditions can be very difficult. And many have large debts due to the cost of flight training.

    But a sick out is not going to get them sympathy from the public who is inconvenienced.

    I think that there are better strategies.

    The market is going to take care of the problem. There is a pilot shortage. There are opportunities outside of the US regional market. Overseas, corporate flying, training, etc. As the regional pilot shortage worsens, and it will, with the new ATP 1500 hour rule now in effect, the regionals will have to raise their salaries in general, or they will simply disappear and the mainline carriers will have to take over that flying or drop those markets.

    I work as a flight instructor in a flight school. Most of our students are from outside the US. Very few are local students who want to be professional pilots, what with the 1500 hour rule now in effect.

    But our foreign students can and do finish the school and go right into the right seat of a Boeing or Airbus in their home country.

    Also, some of our flight instructors who have gone to the regionals have decided to leave them and come back to instructing. They can make more money as flight instructors.

    It is a sad state of affairs for regional pilots. But they should leave if they are not happy. There are other opportunities out there. And they could be flying some very nice equipment in some very interesting places, getting high pay.
     
    User avatar
    lightsaber
    Moderator
    Posts: 18848
    Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:28 pm

    This is interesting. I find it a shame that professionals are paid too little for their training. But the reality is there are too many pilots searching for jobs. As soon as pay returns to normal levels, we'll see a rush

    Quoting flyby519 (Reply 5):

    They do bring up good points on the website about mainline carriers posting record profits, but regional carriers are still forced to chose between taking concessions or shrinking to nothing.

    If regionals weren't faced with shrinkage, they would pay what it costs to attract pilots. Only the worst paying are having issues. Great lakes is reducing seat counts to avoid the new regulations. Since there will be few opportunities for pilots to build hours, they will go there.

    Quoting adam42185 (Reply 7):
    Whoever was responsible for posting this online is an idiot. This is an illegal job action and will be ruled as such. If this catches steam I feel bad for anybody who is actually sick on these days.

    That being said the RLA needs to be abolished and pilots should be allowed to strike when management is behaving as they are.

    There needs to be rules. Both sides do not like the RLA. Without the RLA, you wouldn't necessarily have national unions and companies could move bases around until a local union was crushed. Don't curse the RLA. Amend it... but the pilots don't want to go without its protection.

    Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 13):
    The leverage the pilots have is the airlines can't afford to fire them. If they are, there is nobody to replace them.

    They can fine them.

    Quoting apodino (Reply 29):

    Without making this into too much of a political thread, given the presidents close ties to Labor Unions, would such an action get the backing of this administration by them not taking any action?

    I think the president will favor the union IMHO.

    Quoting flyboy730 (Reply 32):
    I've been a regional FO for the past 7 years and things have to change. I accepted another position and will be done 8/6, so I won't be around for this. I'm on my way to Dubai with 2 other pilots and with any luck, we'll never see US 121 operations again.

    Brave and wise change. I wish you luck. FZ or EK? I'm just curious. If pilots are unhappy, they should move on to better wages and conditions. Ironic how that is the ME3...

    Quoting kellmark (Reply 43):
    The pilots lost, big time. Fines of up to 45 million against the union and personal fines against the officers.

    I do not think in this environment the punishment will be high.

    Lightsaber
    IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
     
    CALMSP
    Posts: 3049
    Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:52 pm

    Quoting vio (Reply 34):

    but you do not maintain that $20k per year salary. Yeah, it sucks to start, but it is made up quickly. I know plenty of UAX pilots from all of our carriers, and unless they just have huge credit accounts, they are doing fine after a few years with their nice homes, cars, etc. This is the same with any job.

    Entry level management positions at United corporate is only $32,000. And thats working 5 days a week. Which almost eliminates any possibility of working a part-time job. Which you can manage on a pilots work schedule.
     
    strfyr51
    Posts: 4312
    Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:04 pm

    Quoting CALMSP (Reply 45):
    but you do not maintain that $20k per year salary. Yeah, it sucks to start, but it is made up quickly. I know plenty of UAX pilots from all of our carriers, and unless they just have huge credit accounts, they are doing fine after a few years with their nice homes, cars, etc. This is the same with any job.

    Entry level management positions at United corporate is only $32,000. And thats working 5 days a week. Which almost eliminates any possibility of working a part-time job. Which you can manage on a pilots work schedule.

    ******************************************************************************************************************************************
    If the starting salary was $32K that would be at the LEAST a liviable salary, Try being based in either the LAX or SFO area
    on $20K..
     
    flyboy730
    Posts: 52
    Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:16 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:27 pm

    Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44):

    We are going to Emirates. They offer excellent compensation, student loan relief, medical care, health and wellness benefits, and allowances.

    When I graduated college 14 years ago, my dream was to fly for any of the big US majors. Through the last few years, my dream changed to how can I make a livable wage and build at least a small retirement. The US Airlines to include both regionals and mainlines are no longer a competitive career choice and will absolutely suck the very life out of you.

    Again, I'd challenge the bashers to look at the true problem. The real bashing needs to be aimed at the various management teams. If a temporary sickout frustrates you, just wait until you start paying for a 737 ride from the likes of College Station, Shreveport, and Lafayette to Houston.
     
    kellmark
    Posts: 558
    Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:17 pm

    Quoting flyboy730 (Reply 47):
    If a temporary sickout frustrates you, just wait until you start paying for a 737 ride from the likes of College Station, Shreveport, and Lafayette to Houston.

    Flyboy, I doubt that 737s will be used on those routes unless they could be profitable and the market supports it, which today, they can't with the legacy airlines. A lot of those routes will go by the wayside, in my opinion.

    Right now when I travel on a route within Florida to visit family, the regional airline charges around $700 for a round trip flight most of the time. So if I can't use a mileage ticket, I just drive. Even though it is an all day affair, it is still significantly cheaper. Price elasticity and the availability of alternatives have their impact on the airline industry. You can't charge very high prices and expect the public to support that when they can do something else. Sometimes that something else is also simply not to go.
     
    yvphx
    Posts: 108
    Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:35 pm

    RE: Planned Regional Pilot Sickout

    Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:42 pm

    Quoting toltommy (Reply 19):
    Quoting IPFreely (Reply 28):

    Both of you need to re-read my comment. I asked if I purchased travel insurance, if it would cover me if there was a cancellation or delay due to the sick out (if one will happen.) You jumped down my throat for no reason, ASSuming I was trying to get compensated.

    For a guy just asking questions, you both seem the least likely to answer them in a friendly, non-bias way.

    As far as expecting to get what I paid for? Yes, I am. I am paying for airfare to get me from A to C with a layover at B. I am traveling with 3 small kids and I need to be prepared.

    If neither of you can grasp the idea this is a forum for people to ask questions, get answers, submit comments without attacking someone; you should leave your comments to yourself.

    Rant over.

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