Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting YoungMans (Reply 245): The Separatists are not Russian; they are Ukrainian citizens! |
Quoting chiad (Reply 234): Do anyone have a tip of an "unbiased media-source " somewhere in the world that doesn't benefit anything either way by the Ukrainian crisis? |
Quoting SeJoWa (Reply 240): Ever since the people of Maidan got collectively tarred with the vile and false allegation of being "fascists" for claiming their freedom from brotherly - botherly - Russian love of the KGB kind, I can't but be an antagonist to Russia as it now presents itself. |
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 5): The recorders have now been handed over to Malay officials, after Malay PM Najib Razak phoned with Mr. Borodai. A ceasefire will be in effect 10 kilometers around the crash site. The deceased will be brought to Charkiv, and then flown out to Amsterdam. These are the newest developments. David |
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 6): Finally some positive news. Good to hear that 'some' progress is being made. Hopefully the data inside the boxes is recoverable but if the plane was hit by a missile I'm not really sure what 'evidence' they expect to find in the data? Maybe a conversation on the CVR such as concerns about the route or something odd was spotted out of the window? Maybe the FDR kept working for a few seconds or so after the explosion and shows what the plane did? I'm not sure, but hopefully the boxes have not been tampered with and are in working order... |
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 6): Maybe a conversation on the CVR such as concerns about the route or something odd was spotted out of the window? |
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 8): |
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 6): I'm not really sure what 'evidence' they expect to find in the data? |
Quoting Mir (Reply 10): I'd be interested in the radio communications, and if there was a warning given on the emergency frequency. |
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 9): Pan Am 103 / Lockerbie... the bomb was situated inside of the aircraft, while a fragmentation warhead exploding 20 meters away from the aircraft probably does no sever hydraulics and electrics. It rather damages the hull, and the airstream does the rest of the job. IMHO everything is recorded as long as the cockpit and the tail section are still in "contact". |
Quoting Mir (Reply 10): I'd be interested in the radio communications, and if there was a warning given on the emergency frequency. |
Quoting NAV30 (Reply 14): This appears to confirm a 'direct hit' by a missile? |
Quoting NAV30 (Reply 14): |
Quoting NAV30 (Reply 16): Anything's possible, 777jet. But the large hole in the middle looks like the 'exit wound' of the rest of the missile, after the charge had exploded? |
Quoting bluesky9 (Reply 19): I am not sure whether a Buk can detect the altitude of an aircraft it is targeting, but if it can, then the Ukrainian ATC instruction for MH17 to descend to from FL350 to FL330 could have been the signal for the Ukranians on the ground to shoot it down. Perhaps the black boxes will give us an idea of how soon after the descent the A/C was brought down. |
Quoting ltc8k6 (Reply 21): FR24 has 9M-MRD at FL310, then going to FL330 and remaining there until loss of data. |
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 2): Quoting sovietjet (Reply 212): The Russian MoD has released a detailed report about the situation in the skies over eastern Ukraine at the time of the incident, including locations of Buk launchers before, during and after the days of the crash. So far this is the best "hard" analysis I have seen |
Quoting bluesky9 (Reply 19): could have been the signal for the Ukranians on the ground to shoot it down. |
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 12): |
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 9): Rather the noise of impact, mixed with "Holy Shit" and so. I don't think one could spot such a missile early enough - especially when they are not fighter pilots. |
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 23): es, I see soldiers know what they signed up for vs innocent neutral civilians but Im not sure why the world thinks its OK for this loss of life in shooting down Ukrainian military aircraft and more is not done to draw a close to this situation. |
Quoting trex8 (Reply 11): Do you mean a warning from the Sam launch crew??? Why would they do that if as likely happened they were under the impression it was an enemy plane? This isn't a cricket match and they have to be gentlemen! |
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 13): I'm also interested if there was a chat with ATC in which concerns regarding the farther North route was expressed - assuming that route was not planned and was changed during flight (do we know if they already planned that diversion around the weather before departure or not given they get some weather info in advance?). |
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 8): I'm not sure how much information can be gleaned from the CVR and FDR. Here's why: the explosion of the warhead from the SAM may have created a powerful enough blast to effectively cut power to the both black boxes, just like what happened with Pan Am Flight 103 when the explosion from the bomb cut the power to both recorders. |
Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 28): the way the Cockpit fragments look the cockpit crew was probably the first to die and probably didn´t even notice it. |
Quoting LH526 (Reply 34): Can anybody with an insight in ballistics explain what's with all the holes on the cockpit fuselag? Comparing the cockpit fuselage skin to other parts we saw, it looks like shrapnells that exploded within the cockpit exited through the holes. What pierced that skin to that extend that it looks like a hillbilly roadsign being shot at with various calibres? |
Quoting Finn350 (Reply 36): This is pure speculation, but the crew oxygen bottles might have exploded from the missile shrapnel and that would be secondary explosion shrapnel that is exiting throuh the cockpit skin. |
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 38): The Sa-11 warhead is huge. It weighs 70 kgs, most of which is explosive. Since it is very difficult for an SA)">AA missile to score a direct hit, it is designed to destroy the aircraft's structure by blast and fragments, triggered by a proximity fuze. |
Quoting Mir (Reply 31): They did say "we warned you". And trying to warn an enemy plane off is perfectly reasonable - you achieve your goal of not having them fly over your territory, and the ability to influence behavior through the mere threat of violence rather than through actual violence has advantages. |
Quoting epten (Reply 32): IF there was intention to intercept, surely MiG-29 or Su-27 would be used. |
Quoting checksixx (Reply 42): Sure, if the missile hadn't been fired. If it was already on its way, that wouldn't make any difference. |
Quoting B797 (Reply 1): I still believe a independent investigation must be conducted. |
Quoting AVLnative (Reply 44): This article has some interesting thoughts: |