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EK413
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Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:07 pm

Hi All,

The previous discussion had 200+ response's & slow to load for some users so Part 3 has been created to continue the conversation.

The previous thread can be found here:

Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 2 (by EK413 Jul 15 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Enjoy the journey!

EK413
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Ab345
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:33 pm

I m surprised Part 3 has stayed empty for 3 whole days   In order to get the ball rolling can anyone summarize what airlines have shown interest officialy?

I m sure I read somewhere that AAB stated he would be looking into it for the Saudi venture of QR and the whole DL situation is unclear I think.

Any opinions/contributions?
 
hloutweg
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:47 am

Qatar, Virgin and Delta have expressed interest.

We may also want to look at airlines that currently operate A330s and have not placed orders for 787s. I have been recently looking at that and have come with a not-all-inclusive list of possible operators... or more efficient A330 sized airliners:

Aer Lingus
Aerolíneas Argentinas
Afriqiyah Airways
Air Algérie
Air Atlanta Icelandic
Air Caraïbes
Air Greenland
Air Mauritius
Air Namibia
Air Transat
AirAsia X
Aircalin
Alitalia
Asiana Airlines
Berkut Air
Brussels Airlines
Cathay Pacific
Cebu Pacific
China Airlines
China Eastern Airlines
Corsair International
Czech Airlines
Dragonair
Edelweiss Air
EgyptAir
Emirates
EVA Air
Evelop Airlines
Fiji Airways
Finnair
Garuda Indonesia
Hawaiian Airlines
Hong Kong Airlines
Iberia
Iraqi Airways
Libyan Airlines
Lufthansa
Malaysia Airlines
Meridiana Fly
Middle East Airlines
Monarch Airlines
Nacil-Indian Airlines
Onur Air
Philippine Airlines
Royal Jordanian Airlines
Scandinavian Airlines System
Shaheen Air International
Sichuan Airlines
South African Airways
SriLankan Airlines
Swiss International Airlines
Syphax Airlines
TAM Airlines
TAME
TAP Portugal
Thai Airways International
Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia
Thomas Cook Airlines U.K.
Turkish Airlines
US Airways/American
Virgin Australia
Wind Rose Aviation
XL Airways France
Yemenia


Which of these do you think are most likely to order A330s and the reason?
In Varietate Concordia
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:09 am

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):

Air Asia X has ordered 50 A330-900.

Air Atlanta Icelandic buys mainly used frames.
 
Someone83
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:53 am

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):
Which of these do you think are most likely to order A330s and the reason?

Many of those listes here has already choseb the A350 as their new longhaul aircraft
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:57 am

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):
Scandinavian Airlines System

They have orders for 8 A359 (+6 options) and 4 A333 Enhanced (deliveries from 2015).
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:20 am

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):
Which of these do you think are most likely to order A330s and the reason?

If you assume all of them you will have the best estimate, plus add most bigger 787 operators because both aircraft are optimal for different missions.

Having 359s on order will not spoil 338 or 339 sales, because again they serve different missions.

The only competiton for A339 are new A333 - A333 built before 2002 will mostly get replaced by A339 by 2020.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:32 am

Has there been any estimation on what break even point in number of sales will be for the 330neo?
 
Burkhard
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:39 am

Total development costs 1-2 billion, so the planes sold by now should do it already more or less.
 
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Ab345
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:04 am

I can see TK taking some up, plus they seem to be operating all 3 engine selections and they re also operating the 332F
 
timboflier215
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:14 am

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):

That's quite a list! Some on there have A350s on order, but I could see some (EI especially) possibly swapping to A330neos.

There must also be many 767 operators with no 787s on order...
 
abba
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:21 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 8):
Total development costs 1-2 billion, so the planes sold by now should do it already more or less.

So one have to ask: What have kept Airbus back from doing the 330NEO? Save for running the risk involved in any program (bigger, certainly, for clean sheet than for updates!) it must be if there are other programs that they could use their engineering resources for that will yield an even bigger earning. Wonder what that might be?
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting abba (Reply 11):

Allocation of engineerumg resources is one thing, bit they also needed an available engine for the update in addition testing to time it in relation to the lige of the original 330. No point in using money on an upgrade as long as the original model sells good
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting someone83 (Reply 12):

And some "behind closed doors" assurances that airlines WILL order it. I m sure John Leahy made his round of calls and meetings and #1 on that list was probably Tony Fernandes?
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:27 pm

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 1):
Any opinions/contributions?

Many 787s and A350s have been ordered to replace 767s, A340s and 772s. Only a handful are here to replace the oldest A330s. So when the A330 replacement market kicks in, I would expect many A330 operators to have a close look on the NEO.

[Edited 2014-07-27 07:54:36]
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Ab345
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:32 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 14):

I m also expecting to hear what the EU3 (as ME3  ) LH group, AF group and IAG have to say about it. Although BA doesn't operate the A330 now, IB does and there are a lot of 767s in BAs fleet
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:58 pm

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 15):
I m also expecting to hear what the EU3 (as ME3 ) LH group, AF group and IAG have to say about it. Although BA doesn't operate the A330 now, IB does and there are a lot of 767s in BAs fleet

In the LH group, I could see the A330NEO very well in the OS and SN fleets. A mix of 338 and 339 might be ideally suited to replace OS's aging 763/77E fleet, although the 339 would be a step down capacity wise vs the 77Es. They use 10 abreast    in a 48C/260Y configuration while with a 339 they would get something like a 49C/227Y or 44C/235-240Y configuration. OTOH, a 338 in 36C/212Y would be a nice replacement for their 36C/178Y 767-300ERs. With SN, they could replace the 332/333 on a one-to-one basis. IIRC, all destinations in SN's and OS's network should be doable by an A330-900.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:35 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 3):

You're right, my bad. I didn't clean up the list off those that had already ordered.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):

No. We can't assume all in this list to place orders for the new A330. Just as we cannot assume those not listed to not place orders for the plane. The idea is to skim through the the list and pick those that could order the A330 instead of the 787. We already know that availability and lower capital costs are some of the arguments in favor of the Airbus.

Some airlines could order A330s despite having already ordered A350s. So what airlines could order or lease the A330?
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hloutweg
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 10):

I agree with you on both statements. Hawaiian and Transaero being a pair precedents, we might see the NEO in airlines like S7, and Air Seychelles, and again Alitalia and Asiana.
In Varietate Concordia
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 17):
The idea is to skim through the the list and pick those that could order the A330 instead of the 787. We already know that availability and lower capital costs are some of the arguments in favor of the Airbus.

And those same arguments apply for picking the A330neo over the A350, as well.



IMO the airlines most likely to choose the A330neo are ones who were interested in the 787 or A350 not for their performance or capacity, but for their fuel efficiency.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:08 pm

From thread #2:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 149):

In addition, an undisclosed Asian customer signed for 4 A330-800neo aircraft.

http://twitter.com/MaxABEd/status/489720294580699136

Could it be for Singapore Airlines as an A345 replacement?
The current A332 already has over 9000nm range when empty, which should increase to around 10000nm for the A338. I haven't done the math but I think an all business 242t A338 with 75-80 seats should be able to do around 9000nm without cargo. A payload/range chart, even if speculative, for the A338 would be much appreciated.
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
IMO the airlines most likely to choose the A330neo are ones who were interested in the 787 or A350 not for their performance or capacity, but for their fuel efficiency.

True but of those, a compelling impetus would also be the existence of the the A330-ceo in the current fleet. I wonder how many A350-900 customers (if any) will trade their orders down to an A330-900 one.
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 21):
I wonder how many A350-900 customers (if any) will trade their orders down to an A330-900 one.

If the A350-900 was too big those customers would have ordered the 787-9 in the first place.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
If the A350-900 was too big those customers would have ordered the 787-9 in the first place.

You don't think there's the potential for the likes of US/AA to convert part of their A359 order to A339? Or CX for that matter?

Also, is Airbus going to include in the A330-neo some of those cabin improvements suggested for A350 Mk I? For example, the widening of available internal cabin space and increase of window size.

[Edited 2014-07-27 13:10:16]
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Stitch
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 21):
True but of those, a compelling impetus would also be the existence of the the A330-ceo in the current fleet. I wonder how many A350-900 customers (if any) will trade their orders down to an A330-900 one.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
If the A350-900 was too big those customers would have ordered the 787-9 in the first place.


I imagine the decision was not that cut and dry, especially for existing Airbus operators who would have had to switch in whole or in part to a Boeing fleet.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 23):
You don't think there's the potential for the likes of US/AA to convert part of their A359 order to A339? Or CX for that matter?

I don't think so. CX ordered the A359 for long-haul operations, the A330 won't be able to do the job. The airline uses the A330 for regional routes. Different aircraft, different market.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
trex8
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 23):
You don't think there's the potential for the likes of US/AA to convert part of their A359 order to A339? Or CX for that matter?

I don't think so. CX ordered the A359 for long-haul operations, the A330 won't be able to do the job. The airline uses the A330 for regional routes. Different aircraft, different market.

CX has 11 A343s, 5 772As and 38 A333s. They have 20 A359 and 26 A35J on order. Even if one includes the 772As as a long haul which is doubtful as they are more used for regional ops and half the A333s as "longhaul" (probably too high also) that leaves them with a significant number of A350s above what they need for "longhaul". Unless a lot of those A35Js are 744 replacements but I thought the 77W/77X was for that.
KA may well need A339s eventually and CX some number as well. Between the two of them they will need enough regional A330/350 size to make a fleet of A330neo and A350s workable.

Close by, CI will have 25 A333s and 6 A343s to replace and only has orders for 14orders +6 options A359 (and when they ordered these in 09 they said these were replacements for the A343/"long haul" lower J seating A333). They will need either more A350s or some A333s of some description. A359regional is probably too much for their true regional routes, either more end of the line A333ceos on the cheap, and the A359s for anything 8hr +. However CI unlike CX/KA may not have a big enough fleet to warrant two types. Though they then will have nothing between a 738 (or whatever replaces those) and A359s if they stick with one type.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):
I have been recently looking at that and have come with a not-all-inclusive list of possible operators

Missing from your list, and subsequent posts, IMHO, is QF as a *possible* customer for the A330neo. QF currently have a fleet of 20 or so A332/A333s. Given QFs on going shortage of capital funds it MAY be more cost effective to not convert the B787 options and order A330neos instead. Or perhaps only convert a few to cover delivery time differences.

Gemuser
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:35 am

I think the market for the A330neo could be much larger than people think.

Remember, a lot of A333's and A332's built in the late 1990's and early 2000's are going to be reaching the point of retirement by 2017-2019. As such, they need replacement, but the very long range of the 787 and A350XWB are not needed by many airlines. For example, the 6400 nm range of the A339 makes it very viable as a 777-200ER replacement on routes up to 6,000 nm, for example most of South America from MIA; that could make the A339 quite attractive to AA, especially with the lower fuel costs of the A339.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
For example, the 6400 nm range of the A339 makes it very viable as a 777-200ER replacement on routes up to 6,000 nm, for example most of South America from MIA; that could make the A339 quite attractive to AA, especially with the lower fuel costs of the A339.

It is true that for an airline the size of AA, economies of scale tend to happen even with multiple fleet types. Currently, they have the 789 on order. For the most part, the 789 and A339 are pretty evenly matched for capacity. I forsee the 789 being used on these routes. However, the PMUS A330s will eventually need replacement. Currently, they're still young but the A330 NEO might be a candidate there.
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:24 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 149):


In addition, an undisclosed Asian customer signed for 4 A330-800neo aircraft.

I'd put my money on PR or 5J.
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:54 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 27):

My oversight is due to my focus on airlines which haven't ordered 787. Although the group has ordered 787s, it seems that Qantas wants them all for Jetstar, perhaps they take se to replace their A330s. I don't know how old those are. My list really is not-all-inclusive.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 19):
And those same arguments apply for picking the A330neo over the A350, as well.

Wouldn't surprise me to see some follow Hawaiian in their switch from a350 to A338/9 for some cases. It may look obvious that for many airlines the A350 is too much airplane; at least performance wise.
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zeke
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 8):

Total development costs 1-2 billion, so the planes sold by now should do it already more or less.

I think it would only take a years production to cover the R&D.

Quoting abba (Reply 11):
What have kept Airbus back from doing the 330NEO?

The same reason Boeing did not do the 737, 747, and 777 upgrades.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 12):
No point in using money on an upgrade as long as the original model sells good

Very true, and they have been doing upgrades, just smaller ones.

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 20):
Could it be for Singapore Airlines as an A345 replacement?

No, for ULH you want a 787 in that size aircraft.

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 23):
You don't think there's the potential for the likes of US/AA to convert part of their A359 order to A339? Or CX for that matter?

It will be used for both regional and long haul, first will see the replacement of the A340 long haul, like the A340, between long hauls it will do short hauls (like a HKG-TPE-HKG).

Quoting Motorhussy (Reply 23):
You don't think there's the potential for the likes of US/AA to convert part of their A359 order to A339? Or CX for that matter?

I dont think CX would be converting down.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
I don't think so. CX ordered the A359 for long-haul operations, the A330 won't be able to do the job. The airline uses the A330 for regional routes. Different aircraft, different market.

The A330 fleet is very young as well, only a dozen or so years. KA is a different story, theirs are getting old. CX might get some A330-900s for Australian routes and move newer A330s to KA, and some A320/321neos for KA.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
For example, the 6400 nm range of the A339 makes it very viable as a 777-200ER replacement on routes up to 6,000 nm, for example most of South America from MIA; that could make the A339 quite attractive to AA, especially with the lower fuel costs of the A339.

Really anything above 5000 nm consistently the 787 I think would be a better choice.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:47 am

Quoting trex8 (Reply 26):
CX has 11 A343s, 5 772As and 38 A333s. They have 20 A359 and 26 A35J on order. Even if one includes the 772As as a long haul which is doubtful as they are more used for regional ops and half the A333s as "longhaul" (probably too high also) that leaves them with a significant number of A350s above what they need for "longhaul". Unless a lot of those A35Js are 744 replacements but I thought the 77W/77X was for that.

Their A35Js will have a four-class cabin configuration and will fly on current 77W routes. The A359s will have a three-class cabin configuration and will also fly long-haul.
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zeke
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:51 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 33):
The A359s will have a three-class cabin configuration and will also fly long-haul.

I expect the 900/1000 to have both 3 & 4 class. CX has designed a 4 class layout for the 359, with a total seating capacity similar to todays 2 class A343s.
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:55 am

I think Tomas Cook / Condor will be signing for NEOs.
 
a380900
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:19 pm

Why didn't Airbus announce the A330 freighter NEO ? Isn't there a market? Isn't it more cost effective to upgrade the freighter at the same time?
 
r2rho
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:32 pm

Just to be picky... I wonder why with the A330NEO Airbus introduced a new 800/900 version number (as it should be IMO), but the A320NEO will remain a -200, though introducing a new engine designator (even though PW/CFM already had their designators). It's annoyingly inconsistent.   
 
Aircellist
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:56 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 37):
Just to be picky... I wonder why with the A330NEO Airbus introduced a new 800/900 version number (as it should be IMO), but the A320NEO will remain a -200, though introducing a new engine designator (even though PW/CFM already had their designators). It's annoyingly inconsistent.  

Well, IMHO Airbus has consistently been inconsistent in its choice of designators. Version numbers designate fuselage lengths in the A330, A340 and A350 families, whereas wholesale model numbers designate fuselage lengths in the A300 and A320 families.
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:45 pm

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 2):
Philippine Airlines

The A338neo could be a niche aircraft in PR's case, mainly due to affordability and its "promised" borderline long-range performance.

Quoting flyinggoat (Reply 30):
I'd put my money on PR or 5J.

The odds are good and the number of frames is about right...though the chance of this happening soon at PR depends largely on the ownership tug-of-war at the airline.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting A380900 (Reply 36):
Why didn't Airbus announce the A330 freighter NEO ? Isn't there a market? Isn't it more cost effective to upgrade the freighter at the same time?

The extra 5 tons of empty weight hurts the freighter. The freighter was shy of fuel weight capacity at full freight as is. The freighter really needs the MTOW at 250+ tons and ideally some weight reduction.

Lightsaber
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hloutweg
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:22 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 39):

Where is PAL sending their A333's today?
In Varietate Concordia
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
uoting A380900 (Reply 36):
Why didn't Airbus announce the A330 freighter NEO ? Isn't there a market? Isn't it more cost effective to upgrade the freighter at the same time?

The extra 5 tons of empty weight hurts the freighter. The freighter was shy of fuel weight capacity at full freight as is. The freighter really needs the MTOW at 250+ tons and ideally some weight reduction.

Lightsaber

If somebody orders the freighter with new engines it should not be a big problem to produce it when the A330-900 and -800 are finished.

I am not so sure about the 5 ton weight increase anyway,

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...330neo-engineering-demands-401664/

Quote: "Airbus believes it can almost fully negate the weight increase of the new A330neo by implementing a reduction exercise to trim structure across the entire A330 airframe.

It intends to shed 800kg of weight as it develops the re-engined aircraft, to offset the modifications required to accommodate the larger Rolls-Royce Trent 7000 powerplants.

“We’re trying to head back to an almost neutral [weight] position,” said Airbus executive vice-president for programmes Tom Williams during the Farnborough air show."

So we will perhaps see as an increase only the 2 times 1 ton the new engines are heavier.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 41):

Where is PAL sending their A333's today?

IINM, the IGW A330s will be phased into Hawaii soon and go daily from 12/11/14 (18J, 27Y+, 323Y), Australia, Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore @ demand; the Middle East, and Bangkok (all Y, 8/04/14).
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
hloutweg
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 43):

Thank you for that. Planespotters lists those A330s as late 1990's deliveries. They could be perfectly lined up for replacements with the NEO.
In Varietate Concordia
 
AvObserver
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:44 pm

I find it a bit peculiar that an even less changed version of an airplane deemed inadequate by industry pundits only 10 years ago is now selling like hotcakes. Of course, the marketplace has changed in those 10 years but it's still baffling how it has turned around. There are a lot more A330s in fleets to make the commonality quotient more attractive now, the 787 is sold out for years, the A350-800 wasn't what airlines hoped for and didn't sell. There are a lot of factors in play and a big one is cost: this 'cheap and cheerful' makeover will win over a lot of carriers on that alone. But still, I think if Airbus had remade the A330 based on the original A350 concept, it would have a longer shelf life, being lighter than the current iteration. But then it would also cost more, owing to higher development costs. This program will do well for Airbus in the short term but it remains to be seen if it has longer term legs, given the relentless drive for ever greater efficiency across the board.
 
fcogafa
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:39 pm

There will be a number of 'newish' A330's (Singapore, Virgin etc) coming off lease in a few years time which will dilute the market for new aircraft, they will have to go somewhere.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:49 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
If the A350-900 was too big those customers would have ordered the 787-9 in the first place.

I could see a number of carriers switching to the neo from the A350 as Hawaiian and Air Asia have. Its the same reason why customers have ordered the A330 instead of the 787 in recent years: availability and price and now they don't have to give up a ton of fuel burn. I think it is easy to assume these customers would have ordered the 787 but not those loyal to Airbus who want to take advantage of commonality advantages.

This is not the same as saying the A330neo competes with the A359 as I believe largely that they play in different arenas.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
that could make the A339 quite attractive to AA, especially with the lower fuel costs of the A339.

Hasn't AA already said they have no interest in the neo? DL is the US-Domestic carrier where the neo has the best shot IMO.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 40):
The extra 5 tons of empty weight hurts the freighter. The freighter was shy of fuel weight capacity at full freight as is. The freighter really needs the MTOW at 250+ tons and ideally some weight reduction.

Exactly, I could actually see the current A33F being more valuable to most freight clients.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 42):
I am not so sure about the 5 ton weight increase anyway,

The CEO said 5-6t of additional weight.

tortugamon
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:00 pm

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 44):
Thank you for that. Planespotters lists those A330s as late 1990's deliveries. They could be perfectly lined up for replacements with the NEO.

You're welcome. I guess we're thinking of different aircraft here...those 1990s planes are already being phased out and returned to lessors/sold. Their replacement is ongoing with these latest deliveries.....

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The handful of A338neo is being eyed as possible replacements for the stopgap A340s to LHR and YVR until both routes grow to warrant the A359 or B789...when PR may be better positioned to finance those.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:16 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 47):
The CEO said 5-6t of additional weight.

Did you read my reference?

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