Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

mjoelnir · Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 99):
I just do not see 5t of empty weight growth, I still think something is being misreported.

I heard it watching the press conference, youtube, five t more hanging under the wings. IMO it is misspoke by Fabriece.
I do not know where suddenly 6 t should come from.

I think that Tom Williams explaining in detail the technical challenges of the conversion to the neo is a more serious reference.

mffoda · Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:31 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 100):
I heard it watching the press conference, youtube, five t more hanging under the wings. IMO it is misspoke by Fabriece.
I do not know where suddenly 6 t should come from.

While I don't have anymore details than the rest of us, regarding the neo weight increase... It should be noted, that we are not just taking about the additional weight of the engines. Strengthening is also required for the new winglets in addition to the engines.

For example, adding winglets to the 767 increased the OEW by 1352kg. to that A/C. And its wing was not getting heavier engines (Nor, not nearly as large as the A330 wing).

Plus, I'm pretty sure that if Airbus had made a mistake in their press conference (regarding the 5t +/-), It would have been corrected by them or some other astute analyst.

KarelXWB · Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:34 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 101):
While I don't have anymore details than the rest of us, regarding the neo weight increase... It should be noted, that we are not just taking about the additional weight of the engines. Strengthening is also required for the new winglets in addition to the engines.

That's being compensated by the removal of 800 kg weight from the airframe.

shamrock350 · Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 86):
They were one of the early customers for the non-XWB A350, -800s and 900s. They were subsequently transferred to the larger XWB versions.

Aer Lingus were never customers for the original A350, they ordered 6 A350 XWBs in June 2007, a year after the XWB was officially launched.

I seem to remember the early breakdown was for 3 -800s and 3 -900s but a year later, after Aer Lingus shareholder approval, they firmed the order as 6 -900s with 6 A333s as interim. Deliveries for the A333s began in 2009 and in 2011 with 3 aircraft still awaiting delivery, they converted them to A359s. Around the time of this conversion the CEO stated the A359 was a little too much for their needs, both in terms of capacity and range but since then the Aer Lingus long haul business has been transformed and is now performing incredibly well, so well that the airline has admitted the A330-200 is now too small and the A350R is taylor made for the bulk for their transatlantic routes, mainly east coast destinations.

The half year results this week by Aer Lingus state that;

'Discussions with Airbus regarding Aer Lingus’ A350-XWB long haul fleet order have substantially concluded with just some final matters relating to manufacturer communicated delivery delays to be agreed. Aer Lingus notes Airbus’s recently announced intention to produce the A330neo long haul aircraft. Aer Lingus will study this aircraft’s capabilities and its potential suitability for the Group’s long haul requirements and future plans.'

So while they will be evaluating the A330neo, the language from them over the past couple of months suggests they see the A359 XWB as a good fit for their business and will be happy to take delivery of them.

We'll know the answer in 3-4 months and then they should be ready to start evaluating the A320neo or 737MAX as they look for a short haul fleet replacement and something to replace the 3 Boeing 757s they have operating for them on their thinner transatlantic routes.

mffoda · Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:40 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 102):
That's being compensated by the removal of 800 kg weight from the airframe.

800 kg might compensate for some of it, but unlikely to cover it all. This is very large wing compared to the 767 (imo anyway).

mjoelnir · Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:28 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 99):
It is more that that, the wing has no issue with the Mk32B-905E pods that weigh 540 kg each.

They hang off the attachment points for the two spare engines on the A340.

hloutweg · Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 103):

I wonder if the A339 is still overall cheaper than the A359 Regional due to its acquisition cost.

Stitch · Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 106):
I wonder if the A339 is still overall cheaper than the A359 Regional due to its acquisition cost.

It will be cheaper to purchase, if nothing else.

zeke · Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:42 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 105):
They hang off the attachment points for the two spare engines on the A340.

Given that statement, I will not longer respond to your questions.

mjoelnir · Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 108):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 105):
They hang off the attachment points for the two spare engines on the A340.

Given that statement, I will not longer respond to your questions.

What is the problem with you?
On the MRTT they use the A340 wing or at least a wing with the A340 engine attachment points and fuel pipes for the refuelling pods.
So the the Mk32B-905E pods hang exactly on the points were on the A340-300/200 the outer engine hangs.
In that position they do not produce added stress rather the opposite.

hloutweg · Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:20 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 107):

Would the larger passenger count bring the costs of the larger plane on par/ or lower than its older jet?

breiz · Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:40 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 55):
In the end, the A330neo is aimed primarily for eastern Asian airlines on regional routes. For example, Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, Dragonair, Philippine Airlines, Korean Air, Garuda and the various Chinese airlines will use them to replace older A330's on these regional routes.

That is why Airbus is reported to presently negociate the assembly of the A330neo in China as well.

Sorry, I did not see the specific thread started on that subject.

[Edited 2014-08-01 04:42:25]

Stitch · Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:04 pm

Quoting hloutweg (Reply 110):
Would the larger passenger count bring the costs of the larger plane on par/ or lower than its older jet?

Higher seat counts and longer stage lengths do help lower CASM.

KarelXWB · Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 85):
This may be the first indication of the effect the NEO could have on A350 sales.

That depends. If they need the capacity, the A359 would give them 30 to 35 additional Y seats (or more premium seats). Looking at the floor space, the A359 is still 10% larger than the A330-300/900, which is the same difference as A330-200 versus A330-300.

hloutweg · Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:00 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 113):

I like this table. It also shows how close in capacity to the 787-10, the A359 is, and why the Regional version of the former is made to compete the the -10

scbriml · Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:36 am

Quoting breiz (Reply 111):
That is why Airbus is reported to presently negociate the assembly of the A330neo in China as well.

Let's be clear, they are not discussing an A330 FAL in China. It would be a completion centre for all A330Regional - the A330Rs would still be assembled at TLS, then flown to China for interior fit-out, painting and delivery to customers.

The A330R will not be built in China.

Airbus Launches A330NEO - Part 3

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