mhkansan
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UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:54 pm

The large amount of local support over in Topeka for the United service to Chicago from the state and local business leaders failed to retain the airline, which cites abysmal loadfactors as the primary reason for pulling out of Topeka in September.

http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/U...Ends-Topeka-Service-268336502.html

This comes as little surprise to me... It was only a matter of time. MCI is a little more than an hour's drive away with a myriad of better flight options and fares. MHK even sees a fair amount of Topeka - originating passengers. I feel bad for the business leaders in Topeka who were really pulling for this service to succeed and be expanded upon, but it was not to be!

Hopefully UA can make their new EAS contract work in HYS (Hays, KS) and maybe think about bringing DEN or IAH service to Manhattan.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:02 am

Sad, I remember flying in to FOE from MCI on the original Frontier....on a 737 no less and the flight was pretty packed. Times have certainly changed.
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thegoldenargosy
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:40 am

I think the last airline to serve FOE before UA was Allegiant in the mid '00's. I diverted to FOE once on a Midwest 717 due to t-storms in MCI. It was a tiny airport with hangers collapsing.
 
inaforeignsky
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:42 pm

Sad to see this end, it offered a good alternative to MCI. I was the FO on the first UAX service from ORD to FOE last year. We received a very warm welcome, it seemed like the whole town turned out to say hello!
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
probably UA lost the Westboro Church contract ...

/s

Isn't Worstboro closer to ICT?
 
175erj
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 4):

Passengers weren't willing to pay the 200-300 dollar fare premium for the 'good alternative."
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:57 pm

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 5):
Isn't Worstboro closer to ICT?

No, its in Topeka.

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azstar
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:03 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 3):
probably UA lost the Westboro Church contract ...

Ha ha. I guess they haven't been spreading their hate around the country enough.
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:47 pm

From the article: "Topeka passengers filled 49% of all the available seats on the flights, against an average of 86% of seats filled on all of United’s Chicago flights, causing the service to fall well below forecasts and targets.Only three routes in the United network at Chicago had a lower percentage of seats filled." Any ideas/guesses as to what the other three routes are?
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knope2001
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:37 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 8):
From the article: "Topeka passengers filled 49% of all the available seats on the flights, against an average of 86% of seats filled on all of United’s Chicago flights, causing the service to fall well below forecasts and targets.Only three routes in the United network at Chicago had a lower percentage of seats filled." Any ideas/guesses as to what the other three routes are?

Probably some or all of those three are EAS markets...Muskegon likely, possibly Eau Claire and Paducah, less likely Houghton. I don't think ORD-ACY has run very full either.
 
citationjet
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:04 am

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 4):
Isn't Worstboro closer to ICT?

No, Westboro is within the Topeka city limits, about 2 miles from the State Capital building. Wichita is 150 miles from the Westboro "church" in Topeka.
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:23 am

Quoting citationjet (Reply 10):

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 4):
Isn't Worstboro closer to ICT?

No, Westboro is within the Topeka city limits, about 2 miles from the State Capital building. Wichita is 150 miles from the Westboro "church" in Topeka.

I squat corrected  
 
jolau1701
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:41 am

Quoting azstar (Reply 7):
Ha ha. I guess they haven't been spreading their hate around the country enough.

I would think they would consider UA would be off limits to them, considering how much they cater to sinners.  duck 

[Edited 2014-07-24 17:42:52]
 
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United787
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:52 am

My wife isn't going to be happy. She has to travel to Topeka from Chicago to visit and client and hates flying into MCI  .
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:00 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 13):
My wife isn't going to be happy. She has to travel to Topeka from Chicago to visit and client and hates flying into MCI  

There's always ORD-MHK on AA.
 
milesrich
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:52 am

FOE was Forbes Air Force Base. Topeka was served until the mid 70s by Topeka (Phillip Billard) Municipal Airport, TOP. At one time, Continental, Braniff, Ozark, and TWA all served the airport.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:34 am

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
This comes as little surprise to me... It was only a matter of time. MCI is a little more than an hour's drive away with a myriad of better flight options and fares. MHK even sees a fair amount of Topeka - originating passengers. I feel bad for the business leaders in Topeka who were really pulling for this service to succeed and be expanded upon, but it was not to be!

From MHK, I did some quick comparisons for flights to LAX:

Out of ICT was $100 less than MHK
Out of MCI was $125

and that's with the EAS subsidy. My son-in-law is stationed at Riley so I keep an eye on MHK althought it's doubtful I'll ever fly from there.
 
mhkansan
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:44 pm

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 16):
and that's with the EAS subsidy. My son-in-law is stationed at Riley so I keep an eye on MHK althought it's doubtful I'll ever fly from there.

No EAS subsidy at MHK any longer. That ended in 2010. The fares are high here just as they are in many other RJ markets because people will pay that much to fly in and out of Manhattan.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:01 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 17):
No EAS subsidy at MHK any longer. That ended in 2010. The fares are high here just as they are in many other RJ markets because people will pay that much to fly in and out of Manhattan.

Thanks. I appreciate it!  
 
gatechae
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:25 pm

This brings up an interesting thought for me, how many state capitols have no airline service?
 
RJNUT
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting gatechae (Reply 19):
capitols have no airline service?

if we go on technicality,not miles from nearest airport:
Salem, Olympia , Carson CIty, Jefferson CIty, Frankfort, Dover, Concord, Montpelier and soon Topeka
 
RJNUT
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:39 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 20):
if we go on technicality,not miles from nearest airport:
Salem, Olympia , Carson CIty, Jefferson CIty, Frankfort, Dover, Concord, Montpelier and soon Topeka




Forgot Annapolis!
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:31 pm

Does anyone think DEN would have worked better?
 
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KGRB
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:39 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 22):
Does anyone think DEN would have worked better?

I guess that would depend on the O&D of FOE-DEN vs. ORD-DEN. I would think that the latter would probably have more, simply due to Chicago's size and economic importance. Considering the size of UA's ORD hub I would think, if you can't make flights to ORD work, you probably can't make them work going anywhere.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 22):
Does anyone think DEN would have worked better?
Quoting KGRB (Reply 23):
I guess that would depend on the O&D of FOE-DEN vs. ORD-DEN.

As evidenced by the loads, there was virtually no traffic on the route. The Q1 government data has been published which shows ORD as the number 1 (only city with service obviously) but then the next biggest points onwards are all eastbound.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=foe-ord...ord-rdu,+ord-pit,+ord-cle,+ord-rsw

[Edited 2014-07-25 15:47:49]

[Edited 2014-07-25 15:52:56]
 
RJNUT
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:50 pm

the reliability perfomarcne was abyssmal to start with

one and done for many potential flyers even stealing from MHK due to United network access!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:59 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 24):
As evidenced by the loads, there was virtually no traffic on the route. The Q1 government data has been published which shows ORD as the number 1 (only city with service obviously) but then the next biggest points onwards are all eastbound.

That doesn't really tell us much since connecting in ORD to fly west doesn't make a lot of sense when three cities with south- or westbound service are within a couple hours' drive. I think the local market to ORD is likely somewhat bigger (in Q413 MCI-CHI was about 700 PDEW; MCI-DEN was about 550 PDEW despite lower fares). The onward connecting traffic is a tougher question. MHK's lack of DEN service probably would have helped.
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mhkansan
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:33 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
MHK's lack of DEN service probably would have helped.

There are rumors floating around MHK that this will really help MHK's case for DEN service. Unlike FOE, we have proven to support unsubsidized network air carrier service and we have a ground services provider on the field already. The new MHK terminal will be complete next year, and the growing region craves more service. MHK is only retaining about 30% of it's market, while the rest still drives to Kansas City. Fares are high, and so far there hasn't been any real increase in capacity for nearly three years.

Topeka leaders really hoped that FOE would be another hidden gem for United, and they would be able to use the success of the ORD link to lure in other services potentially to DEN or IAH. Unfortunately it was probably the limited schedule and unreliability in the wintertime that failed to attract many HVCs to FOE. MCI is just too close. Topeka is closer to MCI airport than parts of Kansas City are!
 
N1120A
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 20):

if we go on technicality,not miles from nearest airport:
Salem, Olympia , Carson CIty, Jefferson CIty, Frankfort, Dover, Concord, Montpelier and soon Topeka

The difference there is that all of the non-Topeka cities have significantly closer airports.
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Cubsrule
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
The difference there is that all of the non-Topeka cities have significantly closer airports.


Not really. Frankfort is an easy drive to LEX and not too far from SDF (though that requires a drive across Louisville) and CVG but they are longer or more difficult drives than MCI-FOE. Siimilarly, Dover is not too far from SBY and ILG, but to get MCI-type service, you have to drive to BWI, DCA or PHL. Carson City is quite isolated; I think SMF is the closest airport with appreciable service, but it's more than 2 hours away. Jefferson City is close to COU, but COU doesn't have much service and it's a couple hours to STL and MCI.

More analogous to FOE, Olympia is under an hour from SEA and Salem a similar distance from PDX and EUG. The airports involved are smaller, but Concord to MHT is only about 20 minutes and Montpeller to BTV not much more than that.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:54 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):

Don't you consider Carson City to be part of the Reno MSA?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:02 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 30):
Don't you consider Carson City to be part of the Reno MSA?

Yes. Dumb move on my part. My Nevada geography isn't what it should be.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:44 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 20):
if we go on technicality,not miles from nearest airport:
Salem, Olympia , Carson CIty, Jefferson CIty, Frankfort, Dover, Concord, Montpelier and soon Topeka

Here's a question...how many of those have ever had airline service? I know Salem, Montpelier, Olympia, and now Topeka have.
 
ytib
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:10 pm

Topeka received SCASD funding recently as well.
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knope2001
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:36 pm

The only US capital I can't come up with any scheduled air service in the past 50 years is Annapolis, about 20-25 miles from BWI.

Dover DE -- 1981 Wings Airways
Frankfort KY -- 1978 Air Kentucky
Annapolis MD
St Paul MN -- 1994 Capitol Air
Jefferson City MO -- 1983 Resort Air
Carson City NV -- 1978 Aviation Services
Concord NY -- 1979 Bar Harbor
Salem OH -- 2011 Seaport
Montpelier VT -- 1982 Air Vermont
Olympia WA -- 2004 Big Sky

Those are not necessarily the final time each of those cities had air service but if not they are among the lase episodes.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):
The only US capital I can't come up with any scheduled air service in the past 50 years is Annapolis, about 20-25 miles from BWI.

Dover DE -- 1981 Wings Airways
Frankfort KY -- 1978 Air Kentucky
Annapolis MD
St Paul MN -- 1994 Capitol Air
Jefferson City MO -- 1983 Resort Air
Carson City NV -- 1978 Aviation Services
Concord NY -- 1979 Bar Harbor
Salem OH -- 2011 Seaport
Montpelier VT -- 1982 Air Vermont
Olympia WA -- 2004 Big Sky

Those are not necessarily the final time each of those cities had air service but if not they are among the lase episodes.

Fascinating. Thanks.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:47 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 8):
From the article: "Topeka passengers filled 49% of all the available seats on the flights, against an average of 86% of seats filled on all of United’s Chicago flights, causing the service to fall well below forecasts and targets.Only three routes in the United network at Chicago had a lower percentage of seats filled." Any ideas/guesses as to what the other three routes are?

I'm pretty sure one of the other routes is ORD-STC, with a 39% LF as mentioned in the article below.
http://www.sctimes.com/story/news/lo...st-cloud-chicago-attract/10676853/
Some of the recent UAX adds have not been meeting expectations (FOE, STC).
 
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compensateme
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 36):
Some of the recent UAX adds have not been meeting expectations (FOE, STC).

The routes may not have had expectations; UA and AA have been chasing revenue guarantees but quickly retreat once those those guarantees are exhausted. (In UA's defense, FOE continued to lose money long after the guarantees were used.)

Shame on communities such as FOE and STC tossing millions for air service that's unnecessary and unlikely to be sustainable. Or communities such as TOL that tossed a bunch of money AA's way for a fourth flight to ORD...
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:09 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 37):
Shame on communities such as FOE and STC tossing millions for air service that's unnecessary and unlikely to be sustainable. Or communities such as TOL that tossed a bunch of money AA's way for a fourth flight to ORD...

What were some of the other routes/markets that were added under such conditions? I can't remember off the top of my head.
 
FDH
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:21 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):
Concord NY -- 1979 Bar Harbor

Little typo, that should be Concord, NH

FDH
 
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compensateme
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:32 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 38):
What were some of the other routes/markets that were added under such conditions? I can't remember off the top of my head.

Quite a few stations & routes over the past few years. ACY (entire station / UA) and EWR-SBN are other recent additions, YNG was almost another. RFD tries every few years, etc.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:03 am

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):
Carson City NV -- 1978 Aviation Services

I think SkyWest was last to offer Carson City flights. Around 83 or 84 from LAS.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):
Olympia WA -- 2004 Big Sky

I don't believe GQ ever served OLM. Very familiar with their ops, esp in 2000s, and OLM doesn't seem correct. I know Empire flew there until1993 or so.
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SurfandSnow
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:47 am

Even though MCI, MHK, and even ICT are an easy drive from Topeka, I'm still a bit surprised that commercial air service keeps failing from FOE (USX to MCI until 2003, then G4 to LAS 2006-07, and most recently UA to ORD this year). The city of Topeka alone has over 125,000 people, and the metropolitan area has over 230,000 people.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
The large amount of local support over in Topeka for the United service to Chicago from the state and local business leaders failed to retain the airline

To be fair, if there was actually a large amount of local support, the flights wouldn't be ending after a matter of months. They only had to fill 100 seats each way per day, and there are far smaller markets - MHK being a great example - that manage to do so.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
abysmal loadfactors as the primary reason for pulling out of Topeka in September.

I don't know about abysmal, but in most cases, 49% load factors just won't cut it these days.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/U...Ends-Topeka-Service-268336502.html

It seems to me like the article tries to blame weather issues as one of the main reasons for the service's demise.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
MCI is a little more than an hour's drive away with a myriad of better flight options and fares.

Even so, you'd think at least some time sensitive politicians and business travelers would prefer the convenience of FOE (or at least go out of their way to support the flights for the sake of the community), as well as some inbound VFR travelers with scarce time off from their jobs in New York, LA, etc.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
I feel bad for the business leaders in Topeka who were really pulling for this service to succeed and be expanded upon, but it was not to be!

It's too bad they couldn't get this service going 10 years ago, when initial load factors of 49% probably would have been tolerated by the airline as pax numbers increased to a viable level.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
Hopefully UA can make their new EAS contract work in HYS (Hays, KS)

12x weekly CRJ seems like an awful lot for a market that is officially less than 30,000, but they probably expect the flights to draw from a big swath of the state.

Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):
maybe think about bringing DEN or IAH service to Manhattan.

They've worked hard to establish the 3x daily DFW service, no need for IAH. DEN-MHK could be an interesting opportunity, though. What about AA trying DFW-FOE?
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Bobloblaw
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:08 am

Quoting ytib (Reply 33):

I recall an airline flying from St. Paul to Midway, Des Moines or Milwaukee using metros.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):

How do these grants work? Do they ever result in sustainable service? What is their success rate?
 
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knope2001
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:40 am

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 41):
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 34):Olympia WA -- 2004 Big Sky
I don't believe GQ ever served OLM. Very familiar with their ops, esp in 2000s, and OLM doesn't seem correct. I know Empire flew there until1993 or so.

Big Sky flew to Spokane from Olympia

http://www.portolympia.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/340

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/200...04/big-sky-to-end-olympia-flights/

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 42):
Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):MCI is a little more than an hour's drive away with a myriad of better flight options and fares.
Even so, you'd think at least some time sensitive politicians and business travelers would prefer the convenience of FOE (or at least go out of their way to support the flights for the sake of the community), as well as some inbound VFR travelers with scarce time off from their jobs in New York, LA, etc.

For many large markets the time savings of flying from FOE is eaten up by making a connection versus a nonstop from MCI. Other than Chicago (which is nonstop from both FOE and MCI) most major destinations can be flown nonstop from MCI but require a connection from FOE, which kills the time advantage. Having only two options per day is also decided not inconvenient for those on a tight schedule unless the two flight times happen to fit well with one's schedule.

If FOE were a notch or two farther from MCI, and if MCI was a smaller, less-well-served airport then things might be different. But it's a tough nut to crack.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 42):
Even though MCI, MHK, and even ICT are an easy drive from Topeka, I'm still a bit surprised that commercial air service keeps failing from FOE (USX to MCI until 2003, then G4 to LAS 2006-07, and most recently UA to ORD this year). The city of Topeka alone has over 125,000 people, and the metropolitan area has over 230,000 people.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 42):
Quoting mhkansan (Thread starter):Hopefully UA can make their new EAS contract work in HYS (Hays, KS)
12x weekly CRJ seems like an awful lot for a market that is officially less than 30,000, but they probably expect the flights to draw from a big swath of the state.

It's much more about isolation than population. To be sure UA* wouldn't be coming to Hays without EAS subsidy, but those planes probably won't be flying 3/4 empty. Metro Topeka generates far more traffic than those two daily RJ flights can fill, but it nearly all spills to Kansas City because of schedules, because of fares, because of frequent flyer preference, because of habit and inertia. From Hays, Wichita has about 10 nonstop destinations about 2.75 hours away, but otherwise it's Kansas City 4 hours away or Denver 4.75 hours away. Of the traffic Hays creates, far less spills to other markets.

[Edited 2014-07-29 05:03:29]
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:11 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
I think the local market to ORD is likely somewhat bigger (in Q413 MCI-CHI was about 700 PDEW; MCI-DEN was about 550 PDEW despite lower fares). The onward connecting traffic is a tougher question.

The problem is no one wanted to fly out of FOE, have a look at this:

Q1 MCI-CHI was 592 PDEW, @ $138 fare
Q1 FOE-CHI was 12 PDEW, @ 107 fare

Even at a 20% discount people wouldn't take the flight.
 
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knope2001
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:24 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 45):
The problem is no one wanted to fly out of FOE, have a look at this:

Q1 MCI-CHI was 592 PDEW, @ $138 fare
Q1 FOE-CHI was 12 PDEW, @ 107 fare

Even at a 20% discount people wouldn't take the flight.

There could be some of that, but this might also well reflect the passenger mix skewing away from higher-fare business tickets.

Even if fares were identical from both Topeka and KCI to Chicago, if most business travelers who bought more expensive tickets closer to departure flew out of MCI, the FOE average local fare to Chicago will be much lower. With perhaps 20+ flights out of KCI to both Chicago airports versus two at Topeka to O'Hare, Chicago business travelers to/from Topeka might well have continued to mostly use Kansas City as they have for year.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 43):
I recall an airline flying from St. Paul to Midway, Des Moines or Milwaukee using metros.

That was a couple of carriers flying under the Capitol Air banner. I know Air LA and Empire Airlines flew this service with SWMs at different times. Same type deal PEOLPLExpress/Vision is doing IMO.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 44):
Big Sky flew to Spokane from Olympia

Well I sit corrected lol. I guess this service didn't leave a lasting memory.
I have flown in/out of OLM a grand total of once. June 1993. Free bday on Empire BOI-LWS-COE F-27, then COE-GEG SWM, GEG-OLM SWM, and bcak OLM-GEG-COE-LWS-BOI SWM. Fun day!
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Cubsrule
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 42):
I'm still a bit surprised that commercial air service keeps failing from FOE (USX to MCI until 2003, then G4 to LAS 2006-07, and most recently UA to ORD this year). The city of Topeka alone has over 125,000 people, and the metropolitan area has over 230,000 people.

I think size and location are the issues. BTR is a decent analog location-wise, but it's over three times the size of FOE and has LSU (though LSU is on the MSY side of Baton Rouge and BTR is on the opposite side of Baton Rouge).

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 42):
as well as some inbound VFR travelers with scarce time off from their jobs in New York, LA, etc.

The trouble is that connecting rather than flying n/s to MCI isn't necessarily a time saver, especially if it's out of the way to connect in ORD (as it would be from LAX).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: UA Ends Topeka (FOE) Service

Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:59 pm

It's also really, really tough to start new service to a community that hasn't had any service at all for a while. You're talking about changing behaviors and generating awareness almost overnight. It didn't help that starting a 2x/daily service during a terrible winter probably led to lousy word of mouth.

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