MaverickM11
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:43 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 46):
Yeah, that's REALLY going to help them grow and compete.   Nothing like giving away money...

AA is doing the same exact thing.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ldvaviation
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 34):
And yet UA managed to outperform DL in GAAP net income ex-specials despite DL doing everything right and UA doing "everything wrong" ... goes to show that HVC is not the be-all end-all solution to a network airline.

Not sure I am seeing what you are seeing.

What I do see is that despite operating fewer seats and ASM's, DL had a higher operational income than United, even after excluding specials.

Delta 1,579* (in millions)

United 1,075

(Operating income + special charges. Special charges for United of 169. To be fair to Delta, they had a restructuring cost of 30 million, but because Delta did not formally classify it as a special charge I did not count it.)
 
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par13del
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:48 pm

Congrats to UA.
To the employees I say this is similar to US prior to the merger with AA, they also made profits while East fought with West when North was being divided by South.
As long as the company continues to make money they will be less and less interested in sorting the UA / CO rivalry, it does show that despite their differences they are still being professional and doing their jobs, as pax could we ask for more?
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:50 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 45):
From the call, it sounds like while global accounts revenue is up, the real gains are coming from smaller corporate customers which I believe they said revenue from that segment is up ~27% YoY.

Did they say how much of this is ticket purchases by oil companies? They seem to have plenty of cash themselves.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:51 pm

Congrats to the UA team on busting their ass. I'm happy to see UA's numbers improve. I do agree with others about short term gains vs long term performance concerns. Things they need to do going fwd:

1. Restructure regional flying as stated in the earnings call;
2. Finalize the combination of employee groups and locking in long-term contracts;
3. Widen their outside the box thinking regarding paid upgrades, fare buckets and targeting corporate contracts (including small businesses especially) to insulate the airline from the swings in leisure flying over the course of the year.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 49):

UA Q2
2014 - 2013 - Change %
906 - 770 - 17.7%

DL Q2
2014 - 2013 - Change %
1,579 - 914 - 73%

OpInc is a meaningless metric across airlines because UA and DL don't even use the same components inside.

UA GAAP net income including specials - $789m
DL GAAP net income including specials - $801m

For the final figure where all the fudging is done and creative math is reconciled, DL is just 1.5% higher.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:58 pm

From the conference call:

Reducing Regional operators at hubs, IAD going from 8 to 4 regional operators by September. Looking at Fall schedules it looks like the Republic Q400s and Shuttle America ERJ-170s leave IAD replaced by more CR7s. Q400s seem to move to EWR.

ORD going from 7 to 5 Regional operators. These changes, concentrating regional operators at hubs, should help the them better deal with IRROPS recovery.

Looking at used market for additional narrobody mainline, 738s are more expensive compared to A320s of similar age.

Asked about IAD directly, kind of side stepped the question other than to point to the reduction of regional operators in hubs (IAD going from 8 to 4 Regional operators).

Understand flying wingtip to wingtip an ERJ-145 vs a competitors mainline puts UA at an disadvantage.
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AeroWesty
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:00 pm

Listening to the call, it's astounding that 8% of UA capacity is on planes with 50 seats or fewer. With planned regional jet retirements, UA expects that to drop to 5% within the next 18 months.
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dfambro
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:04 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 46):
Yeah, that's REALLY going to help them grow and compete. Nothing like giving away money...

Share buybacks are a way of returning cash to shareholders. A healthy company makes excess cash and returns it to shareholders. Nothing wrong with this buyback.
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 57):

At least they understand its a disadvantage
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
ldvaviation
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 56):
OpInc is a meaningless metric across airlines because UA and DL don't even use the same components inside.

UA GAAP net income including specials - $789m
DL GAAP net income including specials - $801m

For the final figure where all the fudging is done and creative math is reconciled, DL is just 1.5% higher.

And, what you just posted is equally meaningless because it's apples to oranges.

Essentially, you compared Delta GAAP to United non-GAAP.

[Edited 2014-07-24 10:13:53]
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 14):
With a Market Cap that is still almost half of where DL and AA are at

That may say more about DL and AA being over valued to a degree and UA being way under valued.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 46):
Yeah, that's REALLY going to help them grow and compete. Nothing like giving away money...

Referencing the stock buy back...yes. It is a very wise use of cash given your valuation. You basically are investing in yourself because you can buy yourself cheap. With UA's valuation, it is the smart thing to do.
 
max999
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 56):
OpInc is a meaningless metric across airlines because UA and DL don't even use the same components inside.

UA GAAP net income including specials - $789m
DL GAAP net income including specials - $801m

For the final figure where all the fudging is done and creative math is reconciled, DL is just 1.5% higher.

I disagree with you that operating income is meaningless because they are not comparable. It's too much to copy and paste here, but I suggest looking at the categories which make up operating revenue and operating expenses; they are quite similar. The categories are clearly outlined in the press releases for both airlines.

UA http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings....-newsArticle&ID=1950817&highlight=
DL http://news.delta.com/2014-07-23-Del...ines-Announces-June-Quarter-Profit

Underneath operating, are the other parts of the income statement before arriving at net. Those categories are taxes, interests, and debt related expenses. They don't have much to do with the actual operations of the airline.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 57):
Q400s seem to move to EWR.

If this is true, it's a smart move. The Q400s are larger than the E145s they'd be replacing but the bigger advantage is in the airspace congestion arena. Non-jet A/C use different airspace than turbo-jets so they'll be able to use airspace that is otherwise unused while at the same time freeing up airspace for the remaining large RJs or mainline. Fewer delays at slot-controlled, congested EWR.

The used mainline A/C shopping is interesting as it goes contrary to their previously stated plan to keep the fleet number relatively flat. I don't know the market for good, used narrow-bodies and have no idea how many 737/A320 equivalent types are even available. An interesting thought would be the E190s that AC returned (or will return) soon. Expanding with mainline 100-seaters would be a boost for employee morale, help reduce the reliance on regional feed and pretty much force an agreement with AFA which is long overdue.
Every zoo is a petting zoo......if you're a man!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:13 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 6):
Wow I don't think anyone was expecting UA 2Q to be this great,

I admit I didn't. This is *far* better than I could have hoped. Kudos to UA. They executed well.

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 9):

What ? Delta had more revenue but less profit than United ? It underperformed compared to United ? The Delta CEO must go. Delta better revamp it's business model and close some hubs or bankruptcy might be around the corner.

   Naaa... more DL must upgrade its fleet.     

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 61):
Referencing the stock buy back...yes. It is a very wise use of cash given your valuation. You basically are investing in yourself because you can buy yourself cheap. With UA's valuation, it is the smart thing to do.

Agreed. Time to get more workers tuned into to stock valuations (401k). For in the end, the SEC requires profit to flow to the owners (stockholders).


Lightsaber
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max999
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 55):
OpInc is a meaningless metric across airlines because UA and DL don't even use the same components inside.

UA GAAP net income including specials - $789m
DL GAAP net income including specials - $801m

For the final figure where all the fudging is done and creative math is reconciled, DL is just 1.5% higher.

In addition, operating profit is a commonly used metric across all industries. According to Investopedia - http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/operating_profit.asp

Quote:
The profit earned from a firm's normal core business operations. This value does not include any profit earned from the firm's investments (such as earnings from firms in which the company has partial interest) and the effects of interest and taxes.

By that standard definition, UA's underperforming operating profit speaks volumes about its fundamentals and also its long term future.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 47):
Is that illegal or is he allowed to do something like this?

There are specific protocols for Officers of companies to buy stock. I'm sure they were followed so yes, very legal. In reality, Jeff buying was a signal to everyone else to buy as it was published online that in the 12 months following a Smisek purchase the stock has averaged 40% improvement each time.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 64):
Agreed. Time to get more workers tuned into to stock valuations (401k). For in the end, the SEC requires profit to flow to the owners (stockholders).

Yes, but the horrible memories of lost fortunes from the UA ESOP will generally keep employees on the sidelines.
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:28 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 56):
Q400s seem to move to EWR.

I'm not sure that's the greatest strategy. UA had to give up a number of markets in Texas when Colgan went bust, taking the turboprops out of the Houston market. Use of the Dash 8's to replace 50-seat jets on many routes was supposed to reduce fuel burn and improve revenues, but those operations have never been replaced. I'm sure the passengers from Beaumont must be thinking about that as they ride on that bus.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:33 pm

yet if we compare all the apples... the recent merger of US/AA skyrocketed past UA... This isn't good work on UA's part.. this is lagging their competitors yet again and cutting products and services to create short term book gains. UA is a miserable place with a horribly inconsistent product.... Congrats to AA though.
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 65):

In addition, operating profit is a commonly used metric across all industries. According to Investopedia - http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/...t.asp

Look at each of their income statements. UA subtracts out more items within OpInc than DL, but DL requires a larger reconciliation

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 60):
And, what you just posted is equally meaningless because it's apples to oranges.

Essentially, you compared Delta GAAP to United non-GAAP.

Then what's the UA GAAP number you're reading ?

per : www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airli...ults-conference-call-today-19.html

Actual results:
- $789m GAAP Net income, $2.34/share. 7.6% margin == this is the number i was referencing
- $919m Net Income (excluding specials) or $1.04 per share. 8.9% margin
- $906m Operating Income (8.8% margin)
- $1.08B Operating Income excluding specials (10.4% margin)
 
toxtethogrady
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 58):
Share buybacks are a way of returning cash to shareholders. A healthy company makes excess cash and returns it to shareholders. Nothing wrong with this buyback.

Well, there are a few things the company could have done with the cash. They could have paid down debt early, reducing the drag of interest expenses on their income before taxes. They could have recycled the cash into investments in the company which would have returned even more money to shareholders (though probably at a later date than some of the more impatient investors might have wanted). Or they could have returned the money to shareholders in the form of increased dividends. The short-sighted route is the one they chose (and as other commenters here noted, it was the most self-serving for management, since they could cash out their shares at a higher price).

I looked at what AA has just announced - they're investing $2.8 billion to pay down debt and prepay aircraft leases. They're also adding to their dividend. So they've decided to try two of these strategies.

So what is the long-term strategy for United - second (or possibly third) place?

[Edited 2014-07-24 11:42:08]

[Edited 2014-07-24 11:42:46]
 
max999
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 69):
Look at each of their income statements. UA subtracts out more items within OpInc than DL, but DL requires a larger reconciliation

There's always going to be nuances to how every company consolidates and reports its financials. It would be impossible for us as outsiders of the company to try to figure out every minutiae; however, reporting for companies within the same industry tend be similar enough. Since we don't have all the details and the fact UA and DL are in the same industry, it's correct to take the published operating income as a fair comparison.

And by comparing the operating incomes of both, I conclude that UA isn't operating as well as its competitors.

[Edited 2014-07-24 12:04:37]
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 70):
Well, there are a few things the company could have done with the cash. They could have paid down debt early, reducing the drag of interest expenses on their income before taxes. They could have recycled the cash into investments in the company which would have returned even more money to shareholders (though probably at a later date than some of the more impatient investors might have wanted). Or they could have returned the money to shareholders in the form of increased dividends. The short-sighted route is the one they chose (and as other commenters here noted, it was the most self-serving for management, since they could cash out their shares at a higher price).

Did you listen to the entire earnings call? I did and they are going to be paying down specific debt early this fall as a pre-payment clause matures. They will be paying off those notes at par which will save millions in interest.

I would've preferred the airline pay down more debt earlier before doing a combo of dividends and stock repurchase and think it is short sighted but they are taking steps to lower debt.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 71):
There's always going to be nuances to how every company consolidates and reports its financials. It would be impossible for us as outsiders of the company to try to figure out every minutiae; however, reporting for companies within the same industry tend be similar enough. Since we don't have all the details and the fact UA and DL are in the same industry, it's correct to take the published operating income as a fair comparison.

DL Q2 :
Net Income (GAAP): $801m (up 17%) = +7.5% margin
Operating Income excluding specials = $1.61 billion (+15.1% margin)
Operating Income = $1.58 billion (+14.9% margin)

UA going from OpInc to GAAP net inc is like 200m gap
DL going from OpInc to GAAP net inc is a grand canyon wide 800m gap

At the bottom of UA's earnings they list a Non-GAAP PTI ex-specials of $1.207B, but they don't really use that figure.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 69):
Then what's the UA GAAP number you're reading ?

per : www.flyertalk.com/forum/united-airli...ults-conference-call-today-19.html

Actual results:
- $789m GAAP Net income, $2.34/share. 7.6% margin == this is the number i was referencing
- $919m Net Income (excluding specials) or $1.04 per share. 8.9% margin
- $906m Operating Income (8.8% margin)
- $1.08B Operating Income excluding specials (10.4% margin)

Delta's GAAP net profit number includes a tax provision in the amount of $497 (in millions). It is not recorded as a special charge.

Add that number back to the Delta number you cited above ($801m) and the gap is more in line with what the difference is between operational incomes.

In short, Delta is outperforming United.

Here is a better comparison of the numbers, which I am copying from flyertalk member, ClipperDelta.

Revenues

DL: $10.62B (up 9%)
UA: $10.33B (up 3.6%)

Operating Profit:

DL: $1.58 B (14.9% margin)
UA: $906m (8.8% margin)

Pre-Tax income:
DL: $1.3B
UA: $791m

Net Profit: (this is where DL had a $497m tax provision, UA's was $2m)

UA: $789m (7.6% margin)
DL: $801m (7.54% margin)

Net Profit excluding specials: (also where DL's $497m tax provision comes into play)

UA: $919m (8.9% margin)
DL: $889m (8.4% margin)

Cash FLow from operations:
DL: $2.0B
UA: $1.5B

--- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23248539-post211.html
 
panamair
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:30 pm

Alright boys and girls, here's how the numbers stack up:

Total Revenues:

AA: $11.36 billion
DL: $10.62 billion
UA: $10.33 billion

Passenger Revenues:

AA: $9.9 billion
DL: $9.3 billion
UA: $9.0 billion

Operating Income GAAP:

DL: $1.58 billion (14.9% margin)
AA: $1.4 billion (12.3% margin)
UA: $906 million (8.8% margin)

Operating Income excluding special items:

DL: $1.61 billion (15.1% margin)
AA: $1.65 billion (14.5% margin)
UA: $1.08 billion (10.4% margin)

Pre-Tax Income GAAP:

DL: $1.3 billion (12.2% margin)
AA: $1.2 billion (10.6% margin)
UA: $791 million (7.7% margin)

Pre-Tax Income excluding special items and tax provisions:

DL: $1.39 billion (13.0% margin)
AA: $1.46 billion (12.8% margin)
UA: $960 million (9.3% margin)

Net Income GAAP:

AA: $864 million (7.6% margin)
UA: $789 million (7.6% margin)
DL: $801 million (7.5% margin)

*Both AA and DL took a hefty tax provision charge here ($337m and $497m for AA and DL respectively) which negatively impacted their GAAP Net Income number.


Net Income excluding specials:

AA: $1.46 billion (12.8% margin)
UA: $919 million (8.9% margin)
DL: $889 million (8.4% margin)

*Here, AA added back their $337m tax provision number as a special, but DL didn't add back their $497m as a special.
 
panamair
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:42 pm

Here are some other metrics:

ROIC (return on invested capital) for 12 month period ending June 30 2014:
DL: 18.2%
WN: 17.1%
UA: 10.3%
AA: ???

Mainline PRASM:
DL: 13.84 cents
AA: 13.46 cents
UA: 12.95 cents

Mainline CASM:
AA: 13.61 cents
DL: 13.73 cents
UA: 14.09 cents

Mainline CASM ex fuel, specials:
DL: 8.36 cents
AA: 8.55 cents
UA: 8.81 cents


Consolidated (Mainline+ Regional) PRASM:
DL: 14.99 cents
AA: 14.57 cents
UA: 14.21 cents

Consolidated RASM:
DL: 17.18 cents
AA: 16.68 cents
UA: 16.34 cents

Consolidated CASM
AA: 14.62 cents
DL: 14.63 cents
UA: 14.91 cents

Consolidated CASM ex fuel, specials:
DL: 8.98 cents
AA: 9.31 cents
UA: 9.39 cents

Consolidated Yield:
DL: 17.37 cents
AA: 17.34 cents
UA: 16.66 cents


PRASM Growth and breakdown by geography:

Overall:
AA: +5.9%
DL: +5.7%
UA: +3.7%

Domestic:
DL: +10.2%
AA: +9.9%
UA: +7.8%

Transatlantic:
DL: +7.2%
AA: +2.7%
UA: +2.5%

Latin America:
UA: +4.4%
DL: -0.7%
AA: -2.5%

Transpacific:
AA: +9.0%
UA: -2.6%
DL: -3.2%
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 74):
Net Profit: (this is where DL had a $497m tax provision, UA's was $2m)
UA: $789m (7.6% margin)
DL: $801m (7.54% margin)
Quoting panamair (Reply 75):
Net Income GAAP:
AA: $864 million (7.6% margin)
UA: $789 million (7.6% margin)
DL: $801 million (7.5% margin)

*Both AA and DL took a hefty tax provision charge here ($337m and $497m for AA and DL respectively) which negatively impacted their GAAP Net Income number.

They have to take them eventually - now or later. DL took $122m "tax provision" in Q1'14 too. You're making it sound like DL is pre-taking the provision for future quarters and thus artificially depressing Q2 figures.
 
dfambro
Posts: 334
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:49 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 70):
Or they could have returned the money to shareholders in the form of increased dividends. The short-sighted route is the one they chose

I'm not sure why you see share buy-back as more shortsighted than dividends. They are the two most basic ways *excess* cash is returned to shareholders (I emphasize excess to avoid a debate on whether their investment in the business is adequate).

I'm not an expert on UA stock comp but most companies have plans that automatically increase the option pool annually (it avoids the need to vote on the increases at every annual meeting), so unless you have a buyback plan you are fighting an ever-growing denominator in the earnings per share equation.

Divendeds and buy-backs both have their roles and can happily co-exist.
 
VC10er
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:01 pm

Great news, and aside from shareholder return and value, if they can turn this into a trend, then it's time to start improving Business First and update the brand.

It is so odd, I have never had a very bad experience on UA, with FA's or call centers. I have always held a high status though. The aircraft are clean as a whistle, but the seats are lagging behind. They also need to step on the gas on the new lounges. EWR is an utter disgrace and it's a major international hub?

She will have a new beautiful fleet in a few years etc. United has an awesome route system. But they will always stop just before the fabulous line and deliver good...at best.

But I can spend up to $8 or $9k on a ticket 6 to 12 times a year depending on my company's business and a handful of domestic trips, paid F to SF. MP was the #1 reason to stick with UA all these years. (and channel 9) they don't want to lose the top award for their loyalty program. What a giant magnet MP has been.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
AT
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 2):

Well except the passenger ! I am glad the airlines are doing so well this year, but it seems we- the flying public that supports them- don't get any of that back: air fares not to mention all the add on fees are higher than they've been in years
Still, good news.
 
F9Animal
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:28 pm

This is great news! The employees of UA deserve a pat on the back!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
flyboy730
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:16 pm

RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:38 pm

This is why ExpressJet pilots do not need to be giving concessions. After 7 years with XJT, I'm lucky enough to have found another job but, it amazes me the main lines are making near record profits while the regionals are asking for concessions.

I can only imagine how much the main lines would make if they re-equipped their regional aircraft (E-170's) and properly paid the work groups. But, instead they would rather suck every ounce of life out of the pilots, piss off the workers, watch their future pilot pool leave the country or industry, and cut routes to smaller markets.
 
cle757
Posts: 825
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 81):
This is great news! The employees of UA deserve a pat on the back!

Smisek doesn't give them!..only pink slips.
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commavia
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:54 pm

Definitely strong performance - United's numbers are clearly improving relative to the industry compared to where they've been the last 12-18 months. That being said, I still think United has some major work left to do with their network, fleet and finances.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 56):
Republic Q400s and Shuttle America ERJ-170s leave IAD replaced by more CR7s

I wonder some of this movement of 2-class, 76-seat RJs into IAD will mean upgauging (and perhaps offsetting frequency reduction) in some IAD markets?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 56):
Asked about IAD directly, kind of side stepped the question

Interesting.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 56):
Understand flying wingtip to wingtip an ERJ-145 vs a competitors mainline puts UA at an disadvantage.

Well duh!!!  
 
jolau1701
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:35 pm

RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 25):
Have you sat in the new seats or tried to use the wifi?

The seats are OK, I guess. Then again I rate an airliner seat by how long my airplane nap is. Getting on a flight after only an hour of sleep does that......   

As for Wifi, the A319/A320 wifi is DEFINITELY better! (Point: SubUA    )
 
strfyr51
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 7):
Makes you wonder what UA is really capable of once they get their act together. Those are good numbers considering some of the inefficient practices that still exsist

Frankly? I'm not impressed with this! We CAN and should be doing Better than even This. But we are on the right track and for that I'm pleased. .
 
strfyr51
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting AA94 (Reply 41):
I suppose what I am trying to say is that this quarter, while a good one for UA, doesn't erase the cultural problems that originate from Willis. So yes, good monetary news for UA, but IMHO there is still a ways to go.

*******************************************************************************************************************************************

Exactly What "Cultural" problems are you referring to ?? I don't believe in Culture for a company. Come to Work, Do your JOB,
and Take your butt HOME, On payday you get paid. What is this whole thing with Culture?? This isn't football Team. We Donhave coaches. If I give you a days work? I expect a days Pay. Simple as that. Managment want;s to put on all these special United Manangement Assn. events and Koolaid rrinking events but it boils down to respect.. If you earn it? You will recieve it! And recieve it as ti give it. Culture? Highly overrated , elusive and Unnecessary.
 
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ua900
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:07 am

And yet stock is down at the end of the day...
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johnberg
Posts: 42
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting ua900 (Reply 88):
And yet stock is down at the end of the day...

I think that is more of a reflection of what happened in Africa today, rather than the earnings reports.
 
johnberg
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 75):
Net Income excluding specials:

AA: $1.46 billion (12.8% margin)
UA: $919 million (8.9% margin)
DL: $889 million (8.4% margin)

*Here, AA added back their $337m tax provision number as a special, but DL didn't add back their $497m as a special.

Can anyone provide what Delta's NI ex Specials and margin would have been if the added back the $497m? Just not in front of PC tonight to do the math myself.
 
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drerx7
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:22 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 87):

Sorry...with all due respect, it's that attitude right there that runs away customers. An airline is a customer service business, if employees have that exact apathetic attitude..smh. Company culture is underrated sir. Even mcdonalds has a company culture.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
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CALTECH
Posts: 3218
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:44 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 91):
Sorry...with all due respect, it's that attitude right there that runs away customers. An airline is a customer service business, if employees have that exact apathetic attitude..smh. Company culture is underrated sir. Even mcdonalds has a company culture.

   And there are two very distinct cultures at United. LAX, SFO, DEN, ORD and IAD will retain much of the legUnitted culture for some time as they are mostly legUnited folks in the majority, and IAH and EWR will retain the legContinental culture for a time. Some stations, depending which work group is in the majority, will stay that way for some time. At stations like MCO, the lines are slowly blurring and the workgroups are getting along. Flight Attendants and Technicians will start to move around a bit when the contracts get finalized. It has been a slow process.
The gun is a precious Symbol of Freedom
Criminals are the deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence of tyrants who disarm their citizens
 
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CALTECH
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:48 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 64):
Quoting CALTECH (Reply 9):
What ? Delta had more revenue but less profit than United ? It underperformed compared to United ? The Delta CEO must go. Delta better revamp it's business model and close some hubs or bankruptcy might be around the corner.
Naaa... more DL must upgrade its fleet.

Absolutely. Those old airplanes are costing Delta too much to operate. They need to quit buying old aircraft and order up some new ones if Delta wants to keep ahead of United like they did in the 1st quarter.      Wow!  
The gun is a precious Symbol of Freedom
Criminals are the deadly cancer on American society
Those who believe otherwise are consumed by an ideology
That is impervious to evidence of tyrants who disarm their citizens
 
freakyrat
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:56 am

" Quoting flyboy730 Reply82

I can only imagine how much the main lines would make if they re-equipped their regional aircraft (E-170's) and properly paid the work groups. But, instead they would rather suck every ounce of life out of the pilots, piss off the workers, watch their future pilot pool leave the country or industry, and cut routes to smaller markets."

Expressjet just added a SBN-EWR N/S starting October 27th. If FlightStats has accurate information most of the flights thru October and November are showing only 4 or 5 seats available now. That's good but the airports own statistics and those of United and Delta show that daily connecting passengers to NYC from SBN average around 50 or so a day and most of those are some of the most Elite Frequent flyers who go to NYC on business. You would think that after a few months, if the flight is successful they would stick an E170 on the route with a First Class section to grab those Elite flyers. On ND home football weekends they are upgrading to an E170 from the E145 and those flights are solidly booked including the First Class sections.

So I agree with you. The 50-seaters are a thing of the past and Airlines have to sit down with their mainline and regional pilot groups to cut some deal on scope to allow more E170's on the property to properly serve the markets and increase profitability on the regional routes which can make everyone happy. Another regional market that would be really going gangbusters more than it is is Williston, ND if the community would cut out their foot dragging on an expanded runway, terminal or whole new airport.
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 980
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:42 am

Quoting CALTECH (Reply 18):
You mean like Delta and American did a few years ago ? Did they suffer much ?
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 77):
They have to take them eventually - now or later. DL took $122m "tax provision" in Q1'14 too. You're making it sound like DL is pre-taking the provision for future quarters and thus artificially depressing Q2 figures.

Good point, guess we'll have to wait for the end of the year till all the beans are in. Net profit after taxes is all that counts. Too many ways to move beans between bins otherwise, and every airlines, tax, capital and debt situation is different.

Quoting panamair (Reply 76):
Here are some other metrics:

If DL has an advantage, where is it? PRASM? Overall yeilds, CASM, fuel - DL did have @10% less fuel costs that UA this quarter (let the Trainer dialogue continue   ), not sure what AA paid
 
Prost
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:47 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 75):
AA: $11.36 billion
DL: $10.62 billion
UA: $10.33 billion

Passenger Revenues:

AA: $9.9 billion
DL: $9.3 billion
UA: $9.0 billion

Does this make DL the second largest carrier?
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1238
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 77):
They have to take them eventually - now or later. DL took $122m "tax provision" in Q1'14 too. You're making it sound like DL is pre-taking the provision for future quarters and thus artificially depressing Q2 figures.

No, I'm not making it sound like that.

If you want to be fair, recognize the tax provision for what it is. It is technically a special charge. As it is, it was a non-cash charge. Delta did not pay anyone $457m or lose $457m.

That being the case, the net income numbers are not the best basis for comparison.

I can see why you would want that to be the case. It makes United look better. But it is only better because of some technicality in accounting. Moreover, that technicality in accounting does not override the significance of the other numbers (e.g., operational income and cash flow from operations).
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17276
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:51 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 76):
Here are some other metrics:

These would be more meaningful with an average stage length, as I think UA's average stage is a good bit higher than DL, which further complicates the RASM comparisons.

Quoting panamair (Reply 76):
Consolidated (Mainline+ Regional) PRASM:
DL: 14.99 cents
AA: 14.57 cents
UA: 14.21 cents

I just quickly calculated cons ASL off of their PRs so it may be wrong but I got 1467 for UA and 1000 for DL, and if that is the case then SLA to 1000 miles for both I get
DL: 14.99
UA: 17.21

Again...could be totally wrong but it's something to consider.

[Edited 2014-07-25 00:15:44]
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Max Q
Posts: 7477
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RE: UA 2Q Profit $919 Million

Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:57 am

It is good news but total debt is more than twice the amount of Delta's.



Delta is down to a 'mere' 7 Billion now but are making great headway in lowering it whereas UA still owes 15Billion +



That is far too much debt and the emphasis now should be primarily improving customer service and lowering that debt.
Far more important than repurchasing stock.



That cash position is ok but should not be allowed to go lower.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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