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kaichinshih
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Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:05 am

Does anyone know why some Skyteam Cargo members don't have the alliance logo painted/ applied on their freighter planes?
Korean Air Cargo, Air France Cargo and KLM Cargo all have the alliance stickers/ logo painted

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Yet China Airlines Cargo, China Cargo Airlines (China Eastern), and China Southern Cargo have freighter jets lacking the alliance logo. (Interestingly, these airlines are all from the greater China region)

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All these airlines have been members of Skyteam Cargo for quite some time now...it is weird how they are not following the alliance sticker requirement...if there is one.
Please kindly share your insights if you know the possible reasons!

(Oh and does anyone know if there will be Skyteam Cargo livery jets? It will certainly be great if there can be cargo alliance liveries)
 
[email protected]
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:08 am

A bit off topic, but working in the airfreight industry I’ve never came across any actual routing involving two carriers of skyteam, or even a code sharing flight, like you get tons of it as a passenger....
So I still wonder what these cargo alliances are really about.. do they have in some countries joined sales force?
 
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kaichinshih
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:25 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 1):

Hmm...well there must be something that is binding these cargo carriers together...but on the other hand we can see that Skyteam Cargo is pretty much to only still-effective cargo alliance...why aren't other similar cooperations working anyways?

ST Cargo official page talked about transporting freight through the combined networks of all carriers. What else do they do? Even I am curious...
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:48 pm

Back when I worked at Lufthansa Cargo in the early 2000s we were in an alliance with a bunch of other cargo airlines including Singapore. It was not Star Alliance though, it was called WOW. Not sure what the purpose was and if it still exists. Our MD11 freighters had the light blue or light green WOW logo painted on the back of the fuselage.

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A388
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:52 pm

It is an interesting question how cargo alliances work. Of course they use each other's route networks. Customers typically want their air cargo shipments to reach their final destination as fast as possible. If we're talking about cargo airlines, they will on their turn look at what's the quickest way to get the cargo to the final destination. It is here where the alliance members can co-operate with each other to get that cargo shipment. At least, this is my opinion. The difference with connecting passengers in alliances is, that cargo airlines mainly operate widebody cargo aircraft on longer sectors so feeding cargo this way, may be difficult because they normally don't have narrowbody cargo aircraft to transport the cargo to its final destinations. Eventually the cargo might end up in a road transport trucking company that uses an airline flight number as road feeder service, especially when the cargo consists of full pallets and not just a package. If connection is possible on another cargo aircraft, usually the cargo is either broken down and build up again to continue on another freighter or the cargo is transferred directly from one freighter to another of an alliance member cargo airline. Flowers are a good example of cargo that typically is not broken down to reach its final destination.

Anyone feel free to comment and/or correct me.

A388
 
rojo
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:46 pm

Full Cargo Airline Alliances will never be the same as Full Passenger Airline Alliances for one simple reason... space limitations and backlogs on overbooked flights or weight restricted / balance constraint flights. One person takes one seat on passenger flights. In Cargo, Dimensions can vary based on how the freight is built. If freight builds larger than booked, an airline will always give preference to freight booked on its own paper compared to freight booked on another airlines paper (even if they are in an alliance) when space in one flight is overcommitted .

There are so many components to how Cargo is loaded and how Cargo Airlines define their network that a true Cargo Alliance will require agreements in so many areas. To most airlines it is not worth investing too many resources in creating an alliance since return on investment is low.

The Air Cargo Industry has Interline agreements which have been working well for many years... I don't see big shifts from this practice until yields pick up substantially in an industry that has shown overcapacity in the last 5 years.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:24 pm

Birdwatching beat me on the WOW flop. But Dr. Otto still works for LCAG..............


Well, [email protected] (nice nick) is right, a cargo alliance is something different than a passenger alliance. Why paint an alliance logo on a freighter. Cargo cannot see and freight forwarders yawn as much as a local chinese farmer over that famous sack of Rice.

The synergies in such alliances can be handling and trucking from offline Stations, the combined buying power yields lower costs.

Connections are mostly by truck (Road Feeder Service), if Connections are made by another flight, the origin station tries to load a through pallet. there should be as Little handling as possible. Breaking down and building ULDs is a costly matter. Rather bulk load freight as Long as it fits the bulk compartment.

As most freight is handled by freight forwarders they prefer to load and break down ULDs themsleves, as Long as the have the termoinal capacity at both Ends.

Routing lose cargo over 2 or more connecting flights is something that should be avoided by all means but happens. Staying inside an alliance is preferrably in that case, but most carriers have interline Agreements...
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ha763
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:17 am

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):

Back when I worked at Lufthansa Cargo in the early 2000s we were in an alliance with a bunch of other cargo airlines including Singapore. It was not Star Alliance though, it was called WOW. Not sure what the purpose was and if it still exists.

WOW only had 4 airlines in the alliance. WOW was founded in 2000 by the Lufthansa Cargo, SAS Cargo, and Singapore Cargo. JAL Cargo joined in 2002. Lufthansa pulled out of WOW in 2009 and JAL pulled out in 2010. I don't think WOW still exists. Neither SAS or Singapore mention the WOW alliance on their cargo websites, and the WOW website no longer exists.
 
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mayor
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RE: Skyteam Cargo Alliance Logo Requirements? Livery?

Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:02 am

As I recall, all cargo JV members are ST members, but not all ST members are cargo JV members.
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