DL Pilot Snaps On ATC

krod031 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:20 pm

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a08_1406358353

I thought this was quite comical. "Settle down Captain Happy" was great!

But in all honesty, could the DL pilot have some repercussions for his attitude, being on the wrong taxiway, and stating he makes a mistake every 2 to 3 minutes??

hufftheweevil · Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:54 pm

Quoting Krod031 (Thread starter):
could the DL pilot have some repercussions for his attitude, being on the wrong taxiway, and stating he makes a mistake every 2 to 3 minutes??

Honestly, no, I don't think so. Sure he had a bad attitude. Yes, it appears he was on the wrong taxiway (although it was just the parallel taxiway, so he turned too soon and just had to do a side-step to correct....and it sounds like he had a ways to go before getting to the end, so not a HUGE deal...but nonetheless still not following correct procedures). As for stating he makes a mistake every 2 to 3 minutes...sarcastic, but not really rude or anything like that. But I must say "wow" to that....every 2 to 3 minutes?! Just hilarious!

I think, judging by the controller's laughing at the end, the controller didn't make any report on him. I'm sure he gets plenty of attitude like this each week.

Perhaps the pilot should take a nice vacation and relax, though.

RussianJet · Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:10 pm

On listening to this, it was actually way worse than I expected. The controller was so placid throughout and there was seemingly absolutely no need for that level of snappiness and unprofessionalism. I sure hope he feels like a complete twat on hearing himself back - he sure sounded like one. Good work by the intervening pilot.

Mir · Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 1):
I'm sure he gets plenty of attitude like this each week.

I'm pretty sure this was a first for him. You do hear recordings of stuff like this from time to time, but they're few and far between, and most of them don't get to this level.

-Mir

Thenoflyzone · Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:35 pm

Kudos to the controller for keeping his cool !

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 1):
Perhaps the pilot should take a nice vacation and relax, though.

I concur.

Thenoflyzone

FlyDeltaJets · Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:37 pm

This is attitude that we get from many pilots on a daily basis. I understand people are under stress but I think it's no excuse to lash out on people and be disrespectful.

RussianJet · Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting flydeltajets (Reply 5):
This is attitude that we get from many pilots on a daily basis.

I'm surprised to hear that. We all get abuse from the travelling public, and a lot of very bad manners etc, but somehow pilots as a professional group (and judging by the esteem they are generally held in here on this site) I did not expect to be offering an attitude this bad on a 'daily basis'. Would you say that this is generally the case, or is it very location-specific?

trnswrld · Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:02 pm

Yeah this is one of the funniest clips I have ever heard besides the Southwest stuck mic one.
"Like my god there's another plane out there six miles away". Roflmao!!!

In all honesty though as a controller myself that ground controller handled it well I think. No idea what was up that pilots ass though. I can only imagine the FO sitting there saying wtf just happened hahaha. Sometimes I feel bad for controllers and pilots because something like this that probably would go no further than what we heard here, but now because of the internet this is going viral and now someone's probably gonna have to have a talk with the boss for a couple minutes maybe.
Either way though that sure was interesting to hear...and entertaining to say the least.

[Edited 2014-07-27 09:03:48]

[Edited 2014-07-27 09:04:46]

ZBBYLW · Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:08 pm

As a fellow pilot what an embarrassment. Maybe his wife is having three times the sex he is and he just found out.. No matter why he was so pissed off you got to hold it back.

N243NW · Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:39 pm

Quoting trnswrld (Reply 7):
I can only imagine the FO sitting there saying wtf just happened

Are we sure that it was the captain that spoke out? Typically the captain is taxiing and therefore the FO is doing the radio work. Of course, it's certainly possible that the captain decided to respond himself after the controller corrected them about their error.

mi5flyer · Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:45 pm

I haven't listened to it too many times - but if they were in the alley at ATL and he told him 27R via Taxiway Mike hold short of Dixie....and did not give an instruction on how to reach Taxiway Mike then he can "get out there any way they please" can he not?

Might have said 27R via E4, Mike hold short Dixie. I think Mike is the parallel next to runway 27R (second one from the alley) at ATL so from the alley position you have to make your way to it at least by a stub of some sort.

[Edited 2014-07-27 09:50:27]

FlyDeltaJets · Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):

Most pilots are quite professional and I belive most are also very skilled at what they do, but there are many that talk to others with an attitude and a tone of disrespect. THose few are the bad apples in my eyes not an idicatior of the profession as a whole.

Thenoflyzone · Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:08 pm

Quoting mi5flyer (Reply 11):
Might have said 27R via E4, Mike hold short Dixie. I think Mike is the parallel next to runway 27R (second one from the alley) at ATL so from the alley position you have to make your way to it at least by a stub of some sort.

Sure, but L taxiway is not a stub. L runs parallel to M. By the sounds of it, the pilot had no business being on L. The controller probably didn't specify a stub since it wasn't important which one he took. But he was not expecting him to turn on L. Not the end of the world, but notheworthy for a correction from the controller.

Thenoflyzone

DeltaMD90 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:53 pm

If he had snapped once (maybe twice) it would be one thing. This guy kept going though. He deserves at least a talking to. If I were the other pilot, I'd be extra vigilant that flight... strong emotions (such as irritability) can affect your decision making in the cockpit

The guy who said "captain happy" is my hero though

I'm sure everyone else on that frequency was also laughing... never heard anything this bad before personally but I've heard some semi aggressive pilots and controllers

mi5flyer · Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):

Sure L is the inner parallel which eventually joins M for the final stages prior to the arrival at the approach end of 27R. If the controller doesn't issue a specific route...in this case it appears that the stubs are L7...L6 etc... - you are free to get to M as you please if you can make it there prior to the hold short location ..in this case Taxiway D.

It may well be understood that an aircraft will take the stub taxiway directly to M from the alley as an everyday procedure - but that instruction was not given. Behind the 88 from the right Runway 27R via L6, left on Mike hold short of Delta (Dixie at ATL).

A unnecessary di** response to the ATC guy sure - but I don't think they were incorrect from a regulatory standpoint.

[Edited 2014-07-27 11:29:17]

Mir · Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting mi5flyer (Reply 11):
I haven't listened to it too many times - but if they were in the alley at ATL and he told him 27R via Taxiway Mike hold short of Dixie....and did not give an instruction on how to reach Taxiway Mike then he can "get out there any way they please" can he not?

No, not really. It's expected that you'll get there the simplest way possible - in this case going straight ahead on L5 and then making the left onto M. Alternatively, depending on where they were when exiting the ramp (there are two taxilanes), making a slight left to join U and then making a left on M. Making the left directly onto L and going down a few taxiways before joining M doesn't work - you can't just go anywhere on the airport as long as you make it to your holding spot.

So unless the controller was chastising him for making the initial left turn to get to U (which I doubt), the pilot did screw up. A simple "sorry about the misunderstanding" would have sufficed. Instead he launched into the tirade.

-Mir

Navigator · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 1):
I think, judging by the controller's laughing at the end, the controller didn't make any report on him. I'm sure he gets plenty of attitude like this each week.

I dont think we heard the whole conversation. Something must have happened before this clip. I would like to hear Everything that was said when DL 2422 was on the frequency Before I make any judgment.

The controller sounded slow and a bit complacent before the pilot reacted. And I dont Think it sounded like the controller laughed, it sounded more like his voice cracked up.

I think there is more to this than what we heard. And controllers at Atlanta have a history of having an attitude sometimes. Could something have been said before this clip? Maybe Delta will be filing?

evomutant · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:21 pm

Interesting that it was another pilot who made "settle down Captain Happy" comment. Strictly speaking unprofessional itself, but makes it clear what at least some of those listening on live made of the pilot's attitude.

burchfiel · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:34 pm

Very impressed at the ATL controller for keeping his cool. To borrow a term from internet message boards, it sounds like the DL pilot was "trolling."

Navigator · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:35 pm

I think this is about going via L5 or U to Mike. The controller obviously didnt specify which way DL 2422 should go to Mike. I think DL 2422 Went via U which is a shortcut. When looking at this you can start understanding what this is all about. The controller should have said Taxi via L5 to Mike which he didnt do... Still I would like to hear what happened Before this clip.

Mir · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:45 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 23):
I think DL 2422 Went via U which is a shortcut. When looking at this you can start understanding what this is all about. The controller should have said Taxi via L5 to Mike which he didnt do...

That controller has probably seen aircraft take U to get to M a thousand times, so I doubt he'd be calling out an aircraft for that. It's more likely that the aircraft mistakenly turned onto L, realized it, but didn't tell ATC about it since there were no traffic conflicts and they were going to move over to M at the next opportunity. The controller said what he said, and the pilot had a meltdown instead of explaining the situation.

-Mir

liftsifter · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:48 pm

Pilots regularly get very testy with gate control. At least at ORD, that is.

After the controller asked a UA 744 to taxi to a position and hold for a gate, due to early arrival, the pilot lashed out and said, "damn, you'd think we'd get the gate we've been assigned to. Okay, whatever." I can understand tensions being a bit high after long flights, but there's no reason to take that out on a poor ground controller.

Capt.Fantastic · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:52 pm

I think the pilot involved deserves more than just a talking to: I believe racism may be involved here. If you listen, the pilot isn't just angry: He speaks to the controller in a very condescending manner and insults him. Saying he's "making mistakes" every few minutes is calling him incompetent- and what is that based on? I think this pilot should be evaluated.
Racist attitudes are not acceptable in any workplace. A cockpit should be no different.

mcoatc · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 23):
I think this is about going via L5 or U to Mike. The controller obviously didn't specify which way DL 2422 should go to Mike.

Regardless of what was said, the controller did not chastise the pilot in any way, shape, or form. He simply pointed out that DAL2422 was on L. The reaction on the part of the pilot was not only unprofessional, it was downright childish.

Pilots and controllers are people. We can make mistakes issuing taxi instructions, and pilots routinely turn onto the wrong taxiways. Everyone needs to have thick skin in this business, and simply be humble when they don't have their best day at the office, whichever office that might be. It is unfortunate that today, everything is available on the internet for all to see within minutes.

I cannot think of a time I've ever yelled at anyone for turning on to the wrong taxiway, unless it created an immediate conflict that might create a safety situation. Like the ATL controller, I give a simple reminder that someone is not where they are instructed to be. The normal response is "sorry about that" or "verify the taxi instructions". I always take a no harm/no foul sort of mindset.

For all of those that were paying attention to the controller who unnecessarily sent around a DL 777 in ATL, here's a reminder that stupidity is hardly limited to either side of the microphone.

C767P · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 25):
Pilots regularly get very testy with gate control. At least at ORD, that is.

At ORD I think the frustration comes from the fact that even though the flight is scheduled service, the ramp seems to be caught off guard and shocked the plane is there. Usually when ops is told about it, they act as they don’t care. You are right, a ramp controller shouldn’t be the one to take the blow….

As far as the DL pilot goes, would love to have seen the reaction of the CA after this guy was done. Perhaps the CA was part of what made the FO go off.

Mir · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 25):
After the controller asked a UA 744 to taxi to a position and hold for a gate, due to early arrival, the pilot lashed out and said, "damn, you'd think we'd get the gate we've been assigned to. Okay, whatever." I can understand tensions being a bit high after long flights, but there's no reason to take that out on a poor ground controller.

Especially when it's probably his company's operations team who does the gate assignments.

-Mir

mi5flyer · Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:58 pm

I think the controller failed to issue a specific taxi route instruction as L5 isn't a stub that ends at the runway and was necessary to reach M if that's the way he wanted the aircraft to go. Having crossed no runways and not having breached the hold short instruction - I can't see how the pilot went any more wrong than the controller - outside of being a total nozzle about it all.

[Edited 2014-07-27 13:23:43]

[Edited 2014-07-27 13:24:56]

[Edited 2014-07-27 13:25:36]

Navigator · Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 24):
That controller has probably seen aircraft take U to get to M a thousand times, so I doubt he'd be calling out an aircraft for that. It's more likely that the aircraft mistakenly turned onto L, realized it, but didn't tell ATC about it since there were no traffic conflicts and they were going to move over to M at the next opportunity. The controller said what he said, and the pilot had a meltdown instead of explaining the situation.

OK, it could be either way I suppose. If it is the way you think the pilot clearly overreacted. But ATC in Atlanta has a history you know and it would surprise me if the pilots reaction was so strong just because of this. But you may be right... in that case I Think someone should talk to the pilot and teach him some manners instead. Anyway why do those type of conversations happen so often in the US. Of course the traffic is Heavy at times but so is traffic at LHR. You would never hear such a conversation in London... Are europeans calmer in ATC conversations?

ssteve · Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 26):
I think the pilot involved deserves more than just a talking to: I believe racism may be involved here. If you listen, the pilot isn't just angry: He speaks to the controller in a very condescending manner and insults him. Saying he's "making mistakes" every few minutes is calling him incompetent- and what is that based on? I think this pilot should be evaluated.
Racist attitudes are not acceptable in any workplace. A cockpit should be no different.

Perhaps there are other incidents in the past that help explain his flying off the handle, but it sure does look like he's irrationally angry about mild correction, so you do start to wonder whether there's some other pathology here, other than being thin-skinned.

liftsifter · Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:11 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 29):
Especially when it's probably his company's operations team who does the gate assignments.

Gate assignments at ORD T5 are handled by the City of Chicago.

jetblastdubai · Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:49 pm

As a controller, the whole exchange was pretty funny and quite tame compared to some I've heard.

Obviously a "no harm, no foul" issue for the pilot being on the wrong taxiway. WN was even on the wrong taxiway but the controller didn't seem to care as it made no difference. Problem is, no one was going to back down first and the controller technically had the upper hand as his clearance was totally legit and legal.

Both L5 and U would be appropriate default taxiways to use to get to M and that should be well-known by a local pilot. Taxiing on L would never be appropriate with the clearance issued. If the controller needed a specific taxiway to be used to get to M, he would have issued it. Play a tape from any other ATL controller and see if they do the same thing.

The only issue I had with the controller is that when he noticed that DL was on the wrong taxiway he didn't do anything to fix it. WTF....if his intention was only to mock DL and not correct the problem then he's just being a jerk. If he really needed DL on M, he could have just as easily said "DL2242 take L6 or L7 to M" and never missed a beat. DL would have realized his error, corrected his route and no one would given it a 2nd thought.

Mountain out of a mole hill...nothing more.

EA CO AS · Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 26):
I believe racism may be involved here.

I disagree, and think the only racism involved here is coming from those who, for whatever reason, are intent on finding it.

Jetfixr757 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:01 pm

Nice job whoever intervened and called him "Cap't Happy" guess working at Delta is great!!!
Too funny rofl!!!

Jet

TWAL1011 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:30 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 35):
I disagree, and think the only racism involved here is coming from those who, for whatever reason, are intent on finding it.

Haha I agree 100%. To suggest it is racism because two different races are involved is racism and race-bating at its extreme.

Sounds to me like the pilot was a jerk and the controller a bit nonchalant.

goosebayguy · Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:32 pm

I'm sorry but a pilot who snaps and like this under pressure would not be the pilot I want flying me when things start to go wrong. Accidents are much more likely with pilots like this.

26point2 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:53 pm

Racism? I must have missed it. Is the pilot Jewish?

krod031 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:02 pm

Ill bet The CA was mad about Pilot Stuff...

wjcandee · Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:03 pm

Quoting Navigator (Reply 20):
I dont think we heard the whole conversation. Something must have happened before this clip.

Nope. You heard the whole exchange from the initial call. There was a lot on the frequency before and after with other aircraft. All friendly and laid back from this controller. He is precise in that when people made transmission errors, he corrected them, as with Southwest who said they were on Lima when they were on Mike. He corrected them, "Appears you're on Mike, but taxi to the ramp 3 South." Correction without admonishment.

The heated exchange appears on the liveleak excerpt with virtually no editing of gaps. It's back and forth just like on the excerpt.

Captain Happy is a reference to a man's -- you know. So the mystery pilot was calling the Delta pilot (most likely an FO) a "d-ck", which was well-deserved.

I for one would be pleased to see his local Chief Pilot ask him in to stand tall and explain himself. Not that he should be punished, but I think a visit with the Chief Pilot would be appropriate, and having the experience of waiting outside the Chief's office, being called in, standing there, being asked for the explanation, giving the explanation, and discussing the explanation is the kind of administrative action that cures a lot of ills. And if something important is discovered in the process (like the guy needs some help for some reason) then everyone benefits.

Nobody has mentioned that, assuming that the CAPT was taxiing and the FO was running the radios (same voice all the way through), perhaps he was showing off for or thought he was defending his captain. Curious what the captain thought or did.

[Edited 2014-07-27 15:11:06]

[Edited 2014-07-27 15:22:29]

NBGSkyGod · Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:23 pm

I think his actions require a visit to the tower with a 6-pack of the controllers favorite beer and an apology for being a horse's rear end.

DeltaMD90 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 26):
I believe racism may be involved here

I know I shouldn't bite off on race baiting, but I will. Maybe the pilot was racist... how on earth is that supposed to be proven? Saying the angry pilot was white and the controller black is woefully weak evidence

WNCrew · Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:28 pm

I'm seeing a lot of support for the pilot yet had this been a Flight Attendant speaking to someone else I feel like people would be calling for their termination. He was very condescending and there's no excuse for it, EVER.

RDUDDJI · Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 18):

I believe he is implying that the controller sounds like an African-American and that DL 2422 pilot sounds like a Caucasian, meaning that there is a possibility that the DL pilot is being racist towards the controller.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 18):
I believe he is implying that the controller sounds like an African-American and that DL 2422 pilot sounds like a Caucasian, meaning that there is a possibility that the DL pilot is being racist towards the controller.

I think both of those (assuming what race people are via they way they sound, and further assuming that the pilot assumed this as well and also happened to be racist) are poor assumptions. Nothing the pilot or controller said was racist. To me, it sounded like the pilot was just having a bad day. It happens sometimes.

Tbone354 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:39 pm

I do not post when threads become this long but I am breaking my own rule here. I could not understand a freaking thing any pilot or ATC person said. Beam me up!

trnswrld · Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:46 pm

Was pretty easy to understand everything in that clip I thought. I'm not sure if you fly or not, but being a pilot or controller makes that entire clip pretty easy to understand.

[Edited 2014-07-27 16:50:41]

DeltaB717 · Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:49 pm

My favourite was Delta 1334 asking "do you want us on Mike or Lima!?"

tp1040 · Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:13 am

I listened a couple of times. Whoever was on the delta radio needs to have his head examined and some time off.

IF there was nothing of note preceding this, the Delta guy just goes off for no apparent reason. Not the type of personality that needs to be up front. He exhibits signs of stress and poor decision making. Very volatile and unprofessional in his response.

flyboy730 · Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:29 am

Can you imagine being stuck on a 3-4 day trip with this d...head. He would be on my no fly list after a stunt like that. Probably an overpaid, 3 X divorcee, 2 kids on drugs, living on over extended credit cards but, acting like the richest guy in town. That's usually how they act.

RyanairGuru · Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:33 am

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 43):
I think his actions require a visit to the tower with a 6-pack of the controllers favorite

I like that solution

JFKMan · Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:41 am

I wonder what his co-pilot was thinking while this was going on...

wjcandee · Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:42 am

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 51):
IF there was nothing of note preceding this, the Delta guy just goes off for no apparent reason.

I listened to the whole LiveATC archive from 1100Z to the end; this started around 1126Z. Nothing before that with this aircraft; you hear their first contact on this frequency.

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