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Type-Rated
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RE: Plane Kills Man, Injures Girl On Beach

Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 27):
When all of this combines, you have a scenario for a far worse accident than when landing on a flat, clear strip of ground. Unless the ditch is flown exactly as specified by the aircraft manufacturer - which is not all that easy to do when you consider that the aircraft is likely powerless, the pilot has not been trained for water landings and that he may not be experienced - the aircraft may catch the water with, say, the nose wheel, flip over and start sinking.

I have about 750 hours in several different PA28 types flying and instructing in them. I know that aircraft type like the back of my hand.

First of all, water landings are not mentioned in any PA28 manual from Piper. You are on your own. If you do fly around water your flight instructor will give you some information about water landings, but they are only considered an item of last resort. You are always going to be safer landing on land rather than water.

The Piper Cherokee is one of the easiest to fly aircraft out there. You can manhandle it all day long and it'll always come through for you without biting you in your rear end. The only thing I found with them is that you have to be accurate with your landing speeds otherwise you'll float for awhile before touchdown. That's why I mentioned that if the pilot saw the people he could have "jumped" over them. But I don't think he saw them. For a soft field landing, you do have the nose up high. But if you are that close to the ground, your main view is out of the front windshield rather than a side window. If the people got hit with those hershey bar wings the Cherokee has they would have been severely injured. If they had been hit with a Cessna or Beechcraft wing they probably would have been cut in half.

The only way to truly know what happened is to wait for the NTSB report to come out. It could very well have been that the pilot cleared the runway and the people just happened to walk into the planes path just before touchdown.

BTW, emergency landing tip. If you are landing in a field watch out for cattle. They won't move out of the way. And cows almost always face into the wind. So always land "up cow".
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
transswede
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 9:30 am

RE: Plane Kills Man, Injures Girl On Beach

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:24 am

Quoting Fraspotter (Reply 36):
It was a beach. There was just as much chance of people being in the water as there would have been people on the beach.
Quoting transswede (Reply 37):
If you truly believe that, you don't go to beaches much. I think a legitimate argument could be made that he cared more for his own safety than those on the ground.
Quoting Fraspotter (Reply 39):
You're honestly saying people don't go into the water when they go to the beach? It's Florida not Lake Erie. There was most definitely a CHANCE that there were people in the water.

Of course there was a chance. My point is that your original assertion is false, that there was "just as much chance".

The pilot chose to take that chance instead of a riskier ditch. And it didn't pan out for two bystanders.
 
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TripleDelta
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RE: Plane Kills Man, Injures Girl On Beach

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:31 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 50):
First of all, water landings are not mentioned in any PA28 manual from Piper.

Interesting - all of the Cessnas I've flown (150, 172, 182, 185) have a ditching checklist in the Emergency Procedures section. The items are pretty much identical across all four types; however, only the 172 and 182 make provisions for power-out situations. The 150 and 185 assume engine power is available and can be used to control the rate of descent.
Hawkeye: "It doesn't make any sense."
Radar: "Well, none of it makes any sense. You just have to send in the right number of forms." - MASH 4077
 
Unflug
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RE: Plane Kills Man, Injures Girl On Beach

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:55 am

Quoting transswede (Reply 37):
If you truly believe that, you don't go to beaches much. I think a legitimate argument could be made that he cared more for his own safety than those on the ground.

Unfortunately I think you are spot on.
 
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diverdave
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RE: Plane Kills Man, Injures Girl On Beach

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:49 pm

Quoting Fraspotter (Reply 42):
Short of intentionally running out of fuel, it would still be considered an accident. Pilot error but an accident nonetheless. Plus there are other reasons why he could have run out of fuel short of just not putting enough in the tank. Drag, route, altitude, leak, etc.

Airplanes have fuel gauges, and pilots are supposed to be monitoring them.

This is very sad for the victims and their families. The pilot and passenger may be somewhat traumatized, but after all they are alive and uninjured so life will go on for them. Perhaps with a large lawsuit filed against the pilot.

David
 
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RE: Plane Kills Man, Injures Girl On Beach

Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:16 am

Quoting TripleDelta (Reply 52):
Interesting - all of the Cessnas I've flown (150, 172, 182, 185) have a ditching checklist in the Emergency Procedures section. The items are pretty much identical across all four types; however, only the 172 and 182 make provisions for power-out situations. The 150 and 185 assume engine power is available and can be used to control the rate of descent.

Back when I was flying Cessna's (late 60's-mid 70's) they didn't mention water landings either. I wouldn't be surprised to see that manufactures manuals have been revised and updated several times over the years. Covering water landings would be a good addition.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!

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