Some very nice improvements and it's all free!

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...n-any-other-carrier-268873581.html

I can't say I didn't see it coming, Southwest has began offering free TV and JetBlue is reinventing it's core experience. The new question is who else will follow? I could see AA following. UA, probably not, they don't seem to care about the experience at all.

With all these recent inflight improvements across all the airlines, I think VX needs to do what B6 is doing and reinvent their core experience. Make it bigger and better. Not that what they have now is bad, they are just loosing their lead.

[Edited 2014-07-28 14:30:54]

This is a wonderful opportunity for Delta to grab family travelers away from other carriers. I personally, chose DL when flying with my kids for their inflight entertainment option. This is great extra news to hear. Delta will be on my 1st check list when booking my next flight.

Quoting yvphx (Reply 1):

While nice, no one will switch Delta because of this ( A.netters excluded) Families will continue to fly Spirit, Ftontier and Allegiant and whoever else has the cheapest fare.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2): While nice, no one will switch Delta because of this ( A.netters excluded) Families will continue to fly Spirit, Ftontier and Allegiant and whoever else has the cheapest fare.

This is highly flawed for a lot of reasons. First off, there are many that would never step foot on those airlines (not me but there are many that are completely against it). Second, not every family is budget sensitive. For many, they can choose what airline they prefer. I know many families that choose airlines based on inflight offerings. JetBlue is not always low cost but many families choose them just because of the TV's. Third, these airlines are not exactly large and do not often have service to and from where you need to go.

So to say this won't affect family decisions is highly flawed.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3):

Agreed.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):

Keeping a 6 year old and 3 year old occupied on a 3.5 hour flight is important. If they can watch Frozen 2 times, and avoid the fighting, bickering, and annoying other cabin mates, thats the airline I will choose.

I am not budget sensitive, and I will NOT fly Allegiant or Spirit.

Hasty generalization?

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 3): Third, these airlines are not exactly large

That part is definitely true.

Quoting yvphx (Reply 4): I am not budget sensitive, and I will NOT fly Allegiant or Spirit

I wont fly Spirit.

Quoting yvphx (Reply 4): Keeping a 6 year old and 3 year old occupied on a 3.5 hour flight is important. If they can watch Frozen 2 times, and avoid the fighting, bickering, and annoying other cabin mates, thats the airline I will choose.

at what price? Does a connection matter? How about mileage awards?

I'm a bit confused, though....Does this mean GoGO is now free on flights of 1 1/2 hours and longer?

I hate to burst everyone's collective bubble, but this is exactly the same thing as what UA have been rolling out since last year. And, yes, it is free on UA as well.

Kudos to DL for rolling out BYOD streaming to every domestic aircraft (including regionals expect 50 seaters) but the idea isn't exactly ground-breaking.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 6): Does this mean GoGO is now free on flights of 1 1/2 hours and longer?

No, the content is streamed from an on-board server. While it is accessed over WiFi, it is a different server.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7): I hate to burst everyone's collective bubble, but this is exactly the same thing as what UA have been rolling out since last year. And, yes, it is free on UA as well.

The difference....of course....is Delta provides a viewing device. If I'm not mistaken, it's located in the back of the seat in front of you.  

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7): I hate to burst everyone's collective bubble, but this is exactly the same thing as what UA have been rolling out since last year. And, yes, it is free on UA as well.

I honestly don't recall, but I thought UA made it clear when they rolled this sort of thing out that is was only free for a limited time. DL does not say this. Obviously, anything can change - and my memory may have failed me - but I see this as a difference if it's true.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7): I hate to burst everyone's collective bubble, but this is exactly the same thing as what UA have been rolling out since last year. And, yes, it is free on UA as well. Kudos to DL for rolling out BYOD streaming to every domestic aircraft (including regionals expect 50 seaters) but the idea isn't exactly ground-breaking

But DL is doing it in addition to having seat back IFE, for those that don't or do not want to BYOD. And UA doesn't have it on any regionals and hasn't announced any plans to do so, and they're not installing and are infact ripping out IFE on most domestic aircraft. DL's plans are the best of both worlds.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 5): That part is definitely true.

Neither Spirit nor Allegiant qualify for a "small airline" label.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2014-07-28 19:54:35]

Quoting airtechy (Reply 8): The difference....of course....is Delta provides a viewing device

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10): But DL is doing it in addition to having seat back IFE,

If you read between the lines, you will have an option between AVOD and BYOD on aircraft with PTVs, but BYOD only on aircraft without them (320, M88, M90, all regionals)

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10): And UA doesn't have it on any regionals and hasn't announced any plans to do so

I agree, UA need to upgrade their ExPlus product, in terms of both hard and soft product, very, very quickly

Just curious for you fleet guys that track Delta aircraft. Just got off a Central America DL 757 flight that only had the overhead aisle screens. Are these closer international 757 types going to get AVOD or will these fall into the same MD80/90 A320 a/c class type?

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 12):

Does allegiant do over $1 billion in annual revenue. That use to be the definition of a large airline.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 7): I hate to burst everyone's collective bubble, but this is exactly the same thing as what UA have been rolling out since last year. And, yes, it is free on UA as well.

The difference is the scale of implementation. How many UA aircraft have it? The DL mainline count (via installed AVOD already on widebodies and wifi on domestic configs) + 2-class regionals takes it over 1,000.

[Edited 2014-07-29 03:56:43]

The A32X fleet desperately needs some overhaul, as do some 757s. Even those with shared TV are outdated and this would definitely be a welcome sight.

Quoting yvphx (Reply 4): While nice, no one will switch Delta because of this ( A.netters excluded) Families will continue to fly Spirit, Ftontier and Allegiant and whoever else has the cheapest fare.

Quoting yvphx (Reply 4): Keeping a 6 year old and 3 year old occupied on a 3.5 hour flight is important. If they can watch Frozen 2 times, and avoid the fighting, bickering, and annoying other cabin mates, thats the airline I will choose. I am not budget sensitive, and I will NOT fly Allegiant or Spirit. Hasty generalization?

I think this would be an interesting research study because I don't think anyone knows. As members of this website, we are more in tune with the industry and the inflight offerings of each airline. I feel the vast majority of customers are unaware of all the amenities that airlines offer (though many have heard the horror stories of Spirit) and prioritize cost over anything else.

I was on DL2511 (reg. N584NW) to HNL on July 20th of this year and the IFE was amazing. I think there were approximately 50 movies, I didn't look into other portions of the IFE because I was busy with the movies. My two (2) nieces enjoyed the games on the screens and the screens are touch screens! Very fluid flow in the system. I remember saying to myself that I can't wait to fly delta again!

What is "Interport"?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15): Interport: -5639-5643 -5650-5651

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16): IFE doesn't matter.

Then why is DL investing millions in it? Why doesn't DL (or AA) just remove all IFE on all planes and save the money?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16): US has had next to nothing outside of wifi for a while, and they were consistently outperforming just about anyone else.

True, but US was surviving because it had lower costs than any legacy and didn't really care about capturing any premium revenue. You'll note that US over the years has slowly fizzled and died in almost every major premium market (BOS, LGA, LAX) outside of it's handful of hubs.

Some carriers (like AA and DL) seem to be going the more premium route trying to attract a higher revenue crowd with an overall better product (whether that be IFE, food, flatbed seats, etc). Other carriers (like NK, G4) are going the cost conscious route. There's nothing wrong with either strategy.

Of course, then you have UA which seems to be trying both strategies simultaneously which is producing very mixed results.

Now I am very curious; DL is adding power ports on most, if not all, of their mainline domestic aircraft. Is this power going to be throughout like on the 717's, or is it going to be Y /F/J only?
If it is going to be all seats, will they be adding power throughout every Y seat for their international fleet as well, with the longest flight times that a device can not hope to stay charged for, or will it stay Y only?
That said, I am very proud of DL! They really do care about their fleet, and have kept up with getting straight on keeping all fleets up to date... I am very, very surprised that they even bothered adding power throughout the whole cabin of their 717 fleets, I did not expect that at all!
This makes me very curious how DL seems to have this so optimized that they're able to go ahead with such fleet improvements like this, and yet they do in fact keep turning respectable profits, yet other carriers like UA are busy moaning about fleet age, giving out excuses about money, or just plain not showing any signs of giving a crap at all. Really, I am genuinely curious how they are able to pull this off!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13): I agree, UA need to upgrade their ExPlus product, in terms of both hard and soft product, very, very quickly

Regarding UA non-mainline, the ones I felt needed at LEAST inflight wifi the most were the E-jets 170-190 and the CRJ 700. They have those jets doing mainline-length routes, so I think they should have mainline amenities too.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10): and are infact ripping out IFE on most domestic aircraft

Please tell me that this means UA is ripping out obnoxious DTV.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2): While nice, no one will switch Delta because of this ( A.netters excluded) Families will continue to fly Spirit, Ftontier and Allegiant and whoever else has the cheapest fare.

"I have to pay a %#[email protected] fee for our carryon bags?! I'm not going to pay (some amount) for my sons carryon! I'm not flying you again!" Is how I see family travellers flying those reacting at the gate.

Those ULCC routes tend to be somewhat limited and niche anyways, especially if they don't offer connections like Allegiant. Finding them at all can be tricky, with the exception of F9 which may have the more comprehensive connection options.
I really don't think they're so much targetting families, I think that the people they target are in fact experienced travellers whom know all the ins-and-outs and the key to finding their low fares, what to expect from them, and how to best prepare and cope for such so they aren't caught off guard by the lack of service or fees.
WN seems more like that family-flight airline, at least most families that I personally know whom travel domestically together seem to default to WN, but honestly their fares and other carriers fares are so similar nowadays, the difference in legacy fares can be as little as the checked luggage price or less.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 17):

A small airline is 9K, 3M, or LW.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 24): Those ULCC routes tend to be somewhat limited and niche anyways, especially if they don't offer connections like Allegiant. Finding them at all can be tricky, with the exception of F9 which may have the more comprehensive connection options.

NK is not limited or niche at all. They fly to nearly all the major airports here in America and their ULCC strategy has kept them profitable even in 2008 where most of the airlines were slammed.

-LPDAL

Quoting UA444 (Reply 10): But DL is doing it in addition to having seat back IFE, for those that don't or do not want to BYOD. And UA doesn't have it on any regionals and hasn't announced any plans to do so, and they're not installing and are infact ripping out IFE on most domestic aircraft. DL's plans are the best of both worlds.

UA is not ripping out IFE on domestic aircraft. UA is installing WiFi and streaming video content on all domestic aircraft with the exception being the sUA757's. As far as the DirecTV equipped aircraft UA will not renew their contract with DirecTV once this contract ends but they have not publicly stated whether they will leave the PTV's in those aircraft and switch over to another provider or remove the system all together and go with WiFi and streaming video only once the contract is up.

I don't really understand why a.netters make this topic into such a big deal. WN does not have PTV's, they have WiFi. US does not have PTV's on their domestic fleet only WiFi and they have not suffered much as a result. So whats the big deal most people outside of a.netters do not choose an airline based upon PTV's. So while DL is taking the right approach by giving customers more options across their entire fleet I don't think you will see the entire U.S. industry follow suit and that includes AA. To my knowledge AA has not publicly stated that they will install PTV's on US's entire domestic mainline fleet but yet here on a.netters people have jumped to that conclusion. What AA has stated regarding PTV's pertains to all new arriving aircraft and AA's mainline domestic fleet. In the end AA very well could leave US's mainline domestic fleet WiFi and streaming video enabled only with no PTV's.

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 22): What is "Interport"?

The subfleet based in Asia for inter-Asian flights-- what NWA and now Delta refers to as Interport flying--e.g flights from Narita to Guam or Saipan, or from Osaka to Guam or Nagoya to Guam. But no more NRT-ICN



Back when SARS epidemic was raging and flying in Asia dropped dramatically IIRC they (NWA) down-gauged capacity and moved a few A320 to NRT to do some of their Interport flying

This seems to fit the overall network strategy for DL currently. By having a matching if not superior on board product to B6 there is less product gap and that may help them in markets they compete against B6, which is mainly NYC. You could argue that about LAX and SEA to some extent as well. I however, do not buy the notion that this has anything to do with F9 or NK as they are largely ignored by DL pricing wise on directly competing routes for the most part.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26):

Except for the fact that they are ripping out the ife. Or did I just imagine that the airbus and Hawaii 777s had video screens before. And the wifi they're installing is taking forever and hardly works anyway.

And dtv is crap and always has been a huge rip off. And comparing UA to what WN and US have just makes them look bad. Meanwhile, DL and AA are taking brand new planes with ife direct from the factory and leading in profits and quality while Jeff finds further ways to bring UA down to NK and WN.

[Edited 2014-07-29 14:23:29]

The e-mail I got was that it was on all mainline and 2-class express planes. Would be nice if this was true so that the next time I fly on an MD-90 or A319 between MKE and MSP and beyond I'll have something to do besides listening to my Ipod.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 27): UA will be required to remove the PTVs since they do not own them

  

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26): they have not publicly stated whether they will leave the PTV's in those aircraft and switch over to another provider or remove the system all together and go with WiFi and streaming video only once the contract is up.

I thought that they had already said that all 737s would eventually get the new slimline interior? Reading between the lines, I took that to mean after the DirecTV contract expires.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 30): Except for the fact that they are ripping out the ife. Or did I just imagine that the airbus and Hawaii 777s had video screens before.

I thought that fold down screens or otherwise are still there, but they only ever use them for playing the safety video. My memory could very well be playing tricks on me though.


That said, I must ask; What is the sort of process of installing Power and IFE throughout a whole cabin, does it really involve having to completely remove the interiors of the aircraft for rewiring and all, or are many of the things needed already there?
And for that matter, is DL going to be adding power throughout the Y cabin for their Intl fleet, or will it stay Y+?

Quoting jayunited (Reply 26): I don't really understand why a.netters make this topic into such a big deal.

I suppose it really depends on travel mindset. If one has the mindset of it simply being a Point-A-to-Point-B thing, and especially if they are able to simply sleep on aircraft then yeah it doesn't really matter at all. If one considers the travel portion of their trip to be an important part of the overall experience, especially for getting the travel off to a good start for a good first mindset, then yes it will matter.
There are people whom I've travelled with that kept that mentality, then I showed them just how nice travel can be even in normal Y on VX or B6. Sure they keep a relatively Point-A-to-B mentality most of the time, but at least if they can snag a B6 or VX flight for within $70 more than a WN or UA flight then they will.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 33): And for that matter, is DL going to be adding power throughout the Y cabin for their Intl fleet, or will it stay Y+?

Probably going to be a feature for Y+, J, and domestic F only. I think I remember reading somewhere that DL considered power to be a perk, and isn't considering making it available fleetwide for Y-.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 33): I thought that fold down screens or otherwise are still there, but they only ever use them for playing the safety video. My memory could very well be playing tricks on me though.

A segment of the 738, 753, and MD-90 aircraft have fold down screens. When I rode in BusinessElite aboard an A333 BOS-AMS-BOS, the J class cabin had large fold-down monitors so you wouldn't have to pull up your PTV from it's slot in the PMNW World Business Class seat. Now that the A330s are all 1-2-1 suite cabins, I'm not sure if they use them.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 30): Meanwhile, DL and AA are taking brand new planes with ife direct from the factory and leading in profits and quality while Jeff finds further ways to bring UA down to NK and WN.

NK and WN are posting major profits and definitely have captivated a large share of the airline market.

-LPDAL

Quoting S75752 (Reply 33): I thought that fold down screens or otherwise are still there

Are you referring to UA or DL? At UA the screens are no longer there. Maybe there is a plug where the screen used to fold down, that looks like a screen in its retracted state? The reason they were removed is simple, weight. The hardware that supports AVOD systems is so ridiculously heavy it isn't even funny. Does United or Delta get a return on that "investment" (i.e. the fuel wasted flying it around)? On domestic flights the answer is likely no. United are providing an option to those who want one, and those that really care - enough to pay a ticket premium to get AVOD - can fly another carrier.

Quoting UA444 (Reply 30): Except for the fact that they are ripping out the ife. Or did I just imagine that the airbus and Hawaii 777s had video screens before. And the wifi they're installing is taking forever and hardly works anyway.

Your complaining because over head screens not PTV's were remove and replaced with WiFi and streaming video content. The Airbus fleet and Hawaii 777 never had PTV's install. Your statement that UA is ripping out IFE is false they are replacing it with a better IFE system.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 36):

Drop down screens or projectors count as ife. UA has literally REMOVED the ife from those aforementioned planes. That happened. And it was replaced by an unreliable system that when it works, will only work for iOS. Yeah, real better.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 35):

Well seeing how AA and DL are making more money, it would seem those "paying a premium" are avoiding UA.

I won't make a fuss about domestic routes below 2 hours but for their international routes, DL's IFE offerings (and UA) are terrible.. in contrast to SQ's Kerisworld which has hundreds of movies including those that had only just finished their run in the cinemas, a massive music selection from Classic to Punk Rock and just about all the sitcoms you could think of.. admittedly I usually settle for the episodes of the Simpsons I had watched a countlesss number of times :p

To give DL credit though, they seem to be investing more in improving their products compared to the other other North American carriers on international routes I fly. Improving the IFE selection would be very welcome

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 35): Are you referring to UA or DL? At UA the screens are no longer there. Maybe there is a plug where the screen used to fold down, that looks like a screen in its retracted state?

I was referring to UA, though I was also thinking that DL had them, but I don't recall anyways. It wasn't the personal screens, but the ones that would play whichever movie overhead. I could have sworn that they folded down to show the safety video on a 753 or an A320 that I was on recently, but still, my memory could have been playing tricks on me.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 34): Probably going to be a feature for Y+, J, and domestic F only. I think I remember reading somewhere that DL considered power to be a perk, and isn't considering making it available fleetwide for Y-.

I was under the impression from this article;
http://news.delta.com/2014-01-08-Del...n-225-Domestic-Narrowbody-Aircraft
" 56 of its 757-200 aircraft will include installing in-seat video, satellite TV and access to power for every passenger"
(I'm guessing that those are the newer ones getting mods, with the old ones getting phased out)
"Delta's entire fleet of 73 737-800 aircraft will have in-seat video with access to satellite TV and in-seat power throughout the aircraft. "
"Delta's 57 A319 and 69 A320 aircraft will receive complete interior updates including new seats in both First Class and Economy cabins with in-seat power throughout the aircraft."

I'm not sure if "Throughout" means all seats like I think it does, or is a bit more vague to mean just Y+
Their 717's, 739's, and many 753's appear to already have power in Y-, but I'm not sure if there is some sort of story behind those in particular.

I would think that Y- power ports and streaming WiFi would be cheaper to install than PTV's.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41): Again, proving IFE doesn't matter.

Maybe it only proves that there are different products for different types of customers.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41): UA would be super profitable if it just kept those drop downs and wasn't doing the exact same thing as AA and DL.

Except that AA and DL are taking delivery of new domestic planes with PTV's, UA is not.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41): There is zero correlation between IFE and unit revenue.

There is zero correlation between most in-flight amenities and unit revenue, so what's your point?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41): The people airlines want just don't buy based on IFE.

So is DL chasing after customers that all the other airlines don't want??

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 41): The take rates for paid wifi and IFE are *terrible* and there's no relationship to RASM.

That's because 1) they are grossly overpriced and 2) they are grossly unreliable.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43): The idea that AA and DL are succeeding because of IFE is totally divorced from reality.

I've never said they were, nor has anyone else. However, the IFE goes along with the overall image an airline wants to have and the type of customer they want to attract.

Some carriers like NK, G4, etc don't care about premium travelers, so IFE (along with catering, legroom, etc) isn't important. Some carriers want to attract premium travelers, so they offer more advanced IFE.

UA seems to want to attract more premium customers, but isn't willing to deliver the product (whether it be IFE, catering, more mainline planes, etc) that go along with getting those customers.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43): And yet speed, cost, selection, etc have been improving since before Boeing shut down its own inflight internet solution in 2006 and take rates and general viability of providers has not really budged.

Except that they haven't improved. The price is still way too high (especially when WiFi is free in many other places) and the speed/reliability is still awful.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43): They have the lowest SLA PRASM of the three network carriers. Guess who has the highest?

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in these numbers. If they were truly accurate, UA should be blowing DL away in profitability.

Carriers can save lot of weight by offering just BYOD. Seat back systems weigh 3lb-10lb per pax. Most pax carry tablets any way. Just stream thru WiFi system, sell ads, keep bugging pax to sign up for internet for every key click, rent tablets... Lot of ways to make money. No need to reset system, switch seats because IFE is not working...

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46): Otherwise WN wouldn't have such a large chunk of business pax....

WN maintains a different image and does well with business travelers on mostly short-haul routes where IFE/WiFi are largely useless. WN also makes up for their poor image by offering business travelers other things (such as the ability to to change tickets with no fee).

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 46): You're going to tell me they haven't improved since 2006?

Not enough to make them very useful...especially for the price the carriers want you to pay. If you're going to charge people $8-12 for WiFi, it better be fast and reliable. I can get faster and more reliable WiFi at McDonalds for FREE. This is exactly why the uptake rate is so poor.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 48): I'm hearing a lot of excuses. Where is wifi/IFE driving any major buying decisions, never mind a premium?

I think it does drive decisions (for some customers not all) on longer-haul domestic and international operations. If you don't believe that to be true, then you must think you are smarter than DL and AA's management. According to you, AA, DL, B6 are all just morons pouring money into IFE that no one wants.