nema
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The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:06 pm

This annual article amazed me when i read that Thomson Airways is the least safe British carrier.

Does anyone know why this is because i dont recall too many reported incidents with them compared with other airlines?

Here is the address link to the article..

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/photos/the-world-s-10-most-dangerous-airlines-1406544483-slideshow/
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kaitak
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:10 pm

I take very little notice of these kinds of statistics, as they are very unscientific. Thomson probably only came out worst because it had that 757 accident at Girona about 15 years ago (and it was Britannia then anyway).
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:13 pm

Might be wrong but I get a SkyTrax feeling about this.  
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dtw2hyd
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:22 pm

Yearly ritual of safety analysis based on JACDEC data which gets compiled during octoberfest. If JACDEC cannot correct data issues at least news agencies should stop using the data. In 2013 Business Insider had same headline, later forced to change "Airlines With The Most Safety Problems According To JACDEC". Probably a legal notice from China Airlines fixed the headline.

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-w...rous-airlines-2013-1#ixzz38sY4sGId
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:28 pm

Including TK is simply ridiculous and tells a lot about the veracity of this analysis.
TK is one of the safest airlines in the world.
These lists are compiled by young summer interns who don't have a clue.
 
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pvjin
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:31 pm

In reality least safe airlines out there are mostly small rather badly known airlines in developing world. These "studies" always list only world's largest airlines which are generally among the safest out there, even if they have been involved in some serious accidents in the past.
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SEPilot
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:43 pm

This whole exercise is utterly ridiculous. The safety of all scheduled airlines throughout the world are so much beyond what they were a generation ago that the chances of dying in an airline accident are on the order of being killed by lightning. Since one airline (MH) has accounted for more fatalities in this one year than I believe the entire industry produced in the last decade, how do we account for that? I do not believe MH would have appeared on anyone's list of the most dangerous airlines even at the beginning of this year, and yet they have just had not one, but two high profile disasters accounting to a total of 540 fatalities. The same could happen to any other airline in the world next year, but it is highly unlikely. And while it is certainly more likely to have an accident on third world airlines than on established US or European carriers, it is still much safer flying ANY scheduled airline than driving your car.
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drgmobile
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:47 pm

This article is highly questionable. It may seem appropriate to draw a straight line between an air carrier's record of incidents and whether or not it is "dangerous" but it really isn't. Accidents will happen no matter how safe a carrier actually is. A real list of dangerous airlines would be made up of airlines with demonstrable issues of safety culture and practices in terms of maintenance, flights operations, training etc.. A "lucky" airline can have problems with all of this but no actual accident. Does a carrier with a recognised high quality environment of safety become any less safe after a fatal accident? Of course not.
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 4):
Including TK is simply ridiculous and tells a lot about the veracity of this analysis.
TK is one of the safest airlines in the world.
These lists are compiled by young summer interns who don't have a clue.

I'm skeptical of such rankings, but there have been numerous TK accidents and incidents over the last few decades.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/operator/airline.php?var=9134
http://aviation-safety.net/database/operator/airline.php?var=4711


PH
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starrymarkb
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:02 pm

Didn't Thomson have that very very hard landing at Bristol a few years ago that bent a 767 Fuselage? Can't remember if there were injuries but that AAIB certainly investigated it. Would these incidents count towards the safety record even if they don't result in fatalities.
 
brilondon
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:04 pm

I would put MH on the top of that list if they include this past year, not really, but I would not hesitate to fly on any of those airlines. I do think they use the same methods as a certain website to determine the best and worst airlines and has the same credibility as that site. These are opinion surveys and nothing else. What are the criteria and if it is the amount of fatal accidents then you would have SU, AC and AA on that list as they have had more fatal accidents in their history.
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FlyPIJets
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:07 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 2):
Might be wrong but I get a SkyTrax feeling about this.

Hahahaha - I came to this thread expecting to read this. Was not disappointed.
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roseflyer
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:25 pm

This safety ranking study is an example of how people use statistics incorrectly. Using hull losses and passenger miles to create an index is a very poor statistical study. No reputable organization would use such a metric because hull losses are so statistically improbably that the probability of one happening is almost zero. This is the type of study that a freshman economics student comes up with to learn how to create an index, but then they get a D for it because when they look at the statistical significance of each number, it is negligible. The number zero almost always falls within the confidence interval associated with the statistic, which negates the index. If the people who created the index published the confidence interval attached to each index number, there is almost never enough data based on hull losses to prove that the probability of a crash is not zero. If you cannot prove that the probability of a hull loss is not zero based on the data provided, then your index is completely worthless.

To be more simple, the way to actually measure how safe an airline is and the way that the regulatory authorities do is based on significant reportable events normalized by flight hours or cycles. The FAA requires significant events to be reported. 14 CFR 21.3 defines what must be reported CFR-2002-title14-vol1/CFR-2002-title14-vol1-sec21-3/content-detail.html" target="_blank">http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/granule/CFR...4-vol1-sec21-3/content-detail.html

The reporting process includes events such as Diversion, In Flight Shutdowns, Air Turnbacks, smoke in cabin, control ability failures, hydraulic system losses, departing the runway, tail strikes, etc. These events are much more common and are sometimes referred to as one event away from a significant incident. Problems like these happen on a daily bases at large airlines and can be trended and are statistically significant. The regulatory authority keeps track of these events and what the airlines are doing to prevent them from reoccurring. This is where an airline can be judged on whether or not it is dangerous. Of course these numbers are not widely publicly available, so we end up with a poor mans attempt at comparing airlines who improperly uses statistics. However when used correctly, these reported numbers can indicate which airlines are safer than others and more importantly, is an airline getting safer or less safe with time.

The website that is the basis for the calculation uses publicly available data. If you research them, there are two guys who are trying to build an accident database. While it is a commendable start, their enthusiasm does not match the level of rigor and reporting that the airlines and their regulatory authorities go through to keep flying safe.

[Edited 2014-07-29 11:33:49]
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ElPistolero
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:45 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 4):

Including TK is simply ridiculous and tells a lot about the veracity of this analysis.
TK is one of the safest airlines in the world.
These lists are compiled by young summer interns who don't have a clue.

I used to think so too (flown on TK a lot over the past 3 years), but after booking my most recent ticket, I came across some remarkably critical stuff that made me wonder if I had made the right call.

http://europenews.dk/en/node/50578


Granted many of these issues appear to affect the 737 fleet, and the widebodies tend to have seasoned expats, so they're probably safer than these stories suggest. They're on a bit of a hiring spree for pilots in the west these days.

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 8):
I'm skeptical of such rankings, but there have been numerous TK accidents and incidents over the last few decades.

Most of those incidents involve hijackings by one individual. I don't see the A340 incident in BRU reflected in there, nor the 777 near miss near LHR (though there seems to be differing opinions on how to deal with TCAS in such a carefully controlled airspace). They also took a knock for English proficiency and corresponding level bursts/ATC miscommunication s, though I imagine they've made some progress on that.

[Edited 2014-07-29 11:47:11]
 
dtw2hyd
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 12):
Using hull losses and passenger miles to create an index is a very poor statistical study.

There is no issue using published criteria (like 30 years, hull losses and fatalities) across the board. For some reason JACDEC not able to follow this simple principle. If I recall correctly JACDEC included terror related hull losses/fatalities as safety related and left out tech related hull losses/fatalities. Then the integrity of supposed to be independent safety/quality database/ranking become questionable.

But as readytotaxi posted on #2 there is trend with these safety/quality rating sites. Probably they all are started by enthusiasts as a hobby and turned into commercial agency, and they are biased based on subscription levels or other reasons. Those airlines without strong PR, Legal and reputation management contracts end up holding the bag.
 
flyingthe757
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:14 pm

They could have at least used a real Lion Air jumbo, instead of a FlightSim one!
 
roseflyer
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:17 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 14):
There is no issue using published criteria (like 30 years, hull losses and fatalities) across the board. For some reason JACDEC not able to follow this simple principle. If I recall correctly JACDEC included terror related hull losses/fatalities as safety related and left out tech related hull losses/fatalities. Then the integrity of supposed to be independent safety/quality database/ranking become questionable.

I do not agree with using hull losses / fatalities because an airline like GOL ends up on the list because of the statistical impact of one event. GOL has only had accident where a business jet was given incorrect instructions by ATC and with transponder problems flew into one of their planes at 37000 ft. There is absolutely nothing wrong with GOL because of that event which implies they are dangerous in any way, yet it shows up on this list as one of the 10 most dangerous airlines.
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motif1
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 13):
I used to think so too (flown on TK a lot over the past 3 years), but after booking my most recent ticket, I came across some remarkably critical stuff that made me wonder if I had made the right call.

http://europenews.dk/en/node/50578

OMG! Thanks for the link! I don't want to even land in IST anymore let alone fly TK ... and I enjoyed them very much.

I wonder how much of that is true. If it were true wouldn't regulators take notice and do something about it?

M1
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BoeingGuy
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:56 pm

Only an idiot would write this article.

GOL? You know why they are on the list? Because they had a 737 get hit by an executive jet over the Amazon that had it's transponder and TCAS turned off and was at the wrong altitude. GOL had everything working correct and was doing thievery right.

This is just like if I'm driving and a meteor falls on me then I'm an unsafe driver.
 
fanofjets
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:10 pm

These articles come out all the time and have been issued for as long as I remember - which, in my case, is a very, very long time, indeed. I think this article is a copy of one that came out last year - the Gol 738 accident was mentioned in that article as well. It was ridiculous then and even more ridiculous a year later. Ten years ago, Air-India made the list. Yes, they did lose a Jumbo to pilot disorientation, but the other accidents that article cited were the Boeing 707 and Connie lost on Mont Blanc back in the 1960s. Another 742 was lost over the Atlantic, but that was due to terrorism. I flew AI in 1990 and would have given the crew on both flights the highest marks for their professionalism. Plenty of other airlines have made the same list for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Sadly, people less knowledgeable than us Airnutters will take this slop that passes for journalism at face value.
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802flyguy
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:39 pm

Post deleted.


(But the list is meaningless rubbish anyway)

[Edited 2014-07-29 15:42:06]

[Edited 2014-07-29 15:43:00]
 
BostonBeau
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:51 pm

I may be mistaken, but the articles mentions the 10 worst airlines, "as well as who's safest". There are 13 pictures, so I would assume that the first 10 are of the allegedly "worst" airlines, and the last 3 are of the best.
 
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longhauler
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 10):

Interesting considering AC's last fatal accident was more than 30 years ago.

In fact, the very large number of safe flights since then put AC as second safest airline on the earth. (After BA)
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bchandl
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:20 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 4):
Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 2):

Your first tip on quality of reporting should have been the URL.

Yahoo is an absolute joke. Don't waste your time with anything on that site.

bchandl
 
ElPistolero
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting motif1 (Reply 17):
OMG! Thanks for the link! I don't want to even land in IST anymore let alone fly TK ... and I enjoyed them very much.

I wonder how much of that is true. If it were true wouldn't regulators take notice and do something about it?

They are aware; the newspaper interviewed them too. I think the negative coverage forced a rethink - their CEO justified hiring foreign pilots earlier this year and they have been hiring EK pilots. I think their widebody fleet is generally safe, but my doubt's about their 737 cadre will persist until they get rid of the less capable Air Force stock.

Keep in mind that this is an airline that meets FAA and EU requirements. Like AI, I suspect their widebody fleets are safe (the bar to become a widebody pilot has always been set higher). But yes, the article is pretty damning. That said, I'd sooner hop onto a TK widebody than on the RJs flooding North American skies.
 
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malaysia
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:35 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 22):
After BA

BA landed short of LHR not too long ago
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
asetiadi
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:36 am

1. Adam Air (Suspended)
2. Lion Air
3. Merpati Nusantara Airlines (Suspended)

Somehow those 3 airlines came up in my mind instantly and it's funny how they are all from my country lol. Now to include Garuda is questionable, they were indeed pretty dangerous to fly on but after their major transformation and upgrading their planes, etc... I would put Garuda into the top 10 safest airlines in the world.

and I will fly MH any days without any fear.

[Edited 2014-07-29 18:38:12]

[Edited 2014-07-29 18:38:26]
 
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longhauler
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:02 am

Quoting malaysia (Reply 25):

Yes they did.
With no loss of life.
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PlaneHunter
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:59 am

Quoting malaysia (Reply 25):
BA landed short of LHR not too long ago

But you aren't aware of the circumstances, are you?


PH
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oldeuropean
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:33 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 4):
TK is one of the safest airlines in the world.

You are kidding. Right?  Wow!

Here in Germany, even the Turkish fellow citizens rather want to fly with German or other European airlines than with TK, because of their bad reputation.

[Edited 2014-07-29 23:42:56]
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asetiadi
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:04 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 29):
Here in Germany, even the Turkish fellow citizens rather want to fly with German or other European airlines than with TK, because of their bad reputation.

TK? Bad? in terms of what?
 
theaviator380
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:46 am

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 30):

TK have had few incidences in recent past. I can think of one near AMS. B737-800 which was a nasty crash not long ago.

Air NewZeland and Qantas are one of the safest airline to fly imo, although looking at few TRs here, I doubt inflight service for QF is up to the standard compared to other carriers such as SQ, TG, EK, EY etc.
 
Skyeurope
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 29):
Here in Germany, even the Turkish fellow citizens rather want to fly with German or other European airlines than with TK, because of their bad reputation.

I don't believe that! TK has got load factors in the 90s on almost EVERY flight to and from Germany, they now even send Widebodies to Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Munich and Stuttgart daily.

Most of the passengers on these flights are Turkish.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:15 am

I don't know how credible this study is.

First of all, I think this study unnecessarily alarms people as to a particular airline's safety. Studies after studies prove that flying remains one of the safest modes of transportation.

Secondly, I believe this study overlooks (or fails to mention) other critical factors, which in my opinion, would pertain to safety. Those include: amount of pilot experience, amount of pilot/staff training, maintenance records/frequency, average age of the fleet, number of fleet, adequacy of incident reports, quality assurance, etc.

It is quite difficult to come up with a true and accurate comparison between airlines. How can you compare a multi-national airline like Air France-KLM with a much smaller, mainly domestic based airline, like JetBlue.

I think this study does little, but freak out uninformed passengers into thinking that flying a specific airline would make it safer. Would I hesitate flying NZE? No. But I would not hesitate flying TK either.
 
SocalApproach
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:12 am

Its always the same airlines on these list. CI/TK/JT/JJ/KL. G3 and AI are always a head scratcher for why they are on here at least from a wikipedia point of view.

Quoting BostonBeau (Reply 21):

I may be mistaken, but the articles mentions the 10 worst airlines, "as well as who's safest". There are 13 pictures, so I would assume that the first 10 are of the allegedly "worst" airlines, and the last 3 are of the best.

I will entertain that idea. NZ and BA in the same sentence of worlds most dangerous airlines? I think not.

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 26):
I will fly MH any days without any fear.

Not to get off topic....I understand MH370 is still a pending investigation until further notice and MH17 could have happened to any airline, but I keep seeing this statement online or some sort of variation of it. To each his or her own.... but 500+ deaths in six months is hard to ignore. There is no way anyone would sit on a MH B772 right now and not feel a little uneasy. The bad luck alone that MH is having in 2014 should be enough to rattle anyone even if its in the slightest bit.
 
B777LRF
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:44 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 4):
Including TK is simply ridiculous and tells a lot about the veracity of this analysis.
TK is one of the safest airlines in the world.

You, Sir, owe me a new keyboard! To put it in medical terms, TK is to Syphilis what Adam Air is to Ebola. One could be cured, but it won't be; the other is just a lost cause. If you chose to fly TK, do so at your own peril. Knowing the company from the inside, I for one will never set foot on a TK service operated by 737 or A320 aircraft.
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fallap
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:40 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 35):

I'm flying TK next year. Please tell me more about your insider experiences about TK?  
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ElPistolero
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 35):
If you chose to fly TK, do so at your own peril. Knowing the company from the inside, I for one will never set foot on a TK service operated by 737 or A320 aircraft.

Curious to hear your views on the widebody fleets. For some reason, criticism of TK seems to be very cryptic on a.net - not much in the way of details.
 
B777LRF
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 36):
Please tell me more about your insider experiences about TK?

Ok, if you wish. First of all, you should know that on the short-haul fleet - on the Boeings in particular - the skipper will be ex. military. He won't have the first clue about driving anything but a single seat fighter jet, and certainly hasn't the faintest idea what a multi-crew environment entails. The FO sitting next to him will have a university degree, but not unusually it will be one worth less than nothing outside Turkey. He also can't fly worth a damn, and will be cowering in his seat next to the ex. Air Force Major to his left. This may well lead to a situation where the skipper will fly them all to an accident site, with the FO sitting numb doing nothing. It could be worse, though, it could be a flight crewed only by skippers. In that case, run away as fast as you can.

One of my good friends, and a former colleague, had a stint as a 777 skipper with TK. The stories he told of the utter incompetence of the average Turkish pilot beggars belief; I know 50 hour PPL guys who know more about aviation and operates far safer than some of the characters he described. As a general rule, none of the local TK pilots speak very good English. A good portion of them, the vast majority probably, would never have passed a fair ICAO language proficiency test, yet on paper they're all level 6. In reality, they struggle with ATC every single day.

My mate decided his life was worth more than getting killed onboard an aircraft by an incompetent ex. fighter pilot, called it quits and moved back to his old job. He flatly refused to fly onboard any TK short-haul service, for the same reason.

The only reason they don't crash more often is because of the inherent safety and avionics of modern airliners. Take their magenta lines, auto flight and auto throttles away, and they'd be drilling holes in terra firma left, right and centre.
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Navigator
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:16 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 4):
Including TK is simply ridiculous and tells a lot about the veracity of this analysis.
TK is one of the safest airlines in the world.

I think the Turkish 737-800 accident at Amsterdam was a wake up call. That operation was certainly not safe but it is probably not typical of Turkish Airlines operations nowadays. In the 70:s THY had real safetyproblems with many fatal crashed for many different reasons.

On a recent visit to Malta I listened in on the frequency to turkish and that pilot could hardly make himself understood. This leads me to believe that only their best pilots are scheduled to North european airports. The rest that dont understand English tend to go elsewhere. I for one would not go on turkish.

[Edited 2014-07-30 05:25:08]

[Edited 2014-07-30 05:26:41]

[Edited 2014-07-30 05:27:22]
747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
 
brilondon
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:27 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 22):

Interesting considering AC's last fatal accident was more than 30 years ago.

In fact, the very large number of safe flights since then put AC as second safest airline on the earth. (After BA)

I don't think for one that either AC or BA are dangerous in anyway. I was just pointing out how this article has no merit and I would fly and do fly AC. I don't in the least think they are a dangerous airline. You put BA ahead of AC in terms of safety yet they have had their share of incidents in their history. Most recent was the 777 landing short of the runway at LHR.

Quoting malaysia (Reply 25):
BA landed short of LHR not too long ago
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 28):

Quoting malaysia (Reply 25):
BA landed short of LHR not too long ago

But you aren't aware of the circumstances, are you?


PH

Yeah, the RR engine on it froze up. Also the RR engines on the flight that flew over the volcano stopped working. Yet I would hazard a guess that BA is still one of the safest airlines in the world. A couple of months ago I flew them on their A380 to LHR from LAX on business. So I am not even afraid of the aircraft or the airline. This is most irrational thread if people are thinking that it has any merit what so ever.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
B777LRF
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:53 pm

The difference between BA and TK is, that BA had a double engine failure on short final with a 777, yet the crew managed to drag the kite over the fence, and put it down in a manner that did not result in fatalities. TK, on the other hand, ploughed a 737 into the ground in AMS which had no other malfunctions than a single Rad Alt instrument.
Signature. You just read one.
 
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fallap
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 38):

Well, if I'm going to die.

It might as well be in a 18000 ft / min. spiral dive holding a glass of Brut in my hands upfront.
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
theaviator380
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:46 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 38):

I couldn't agree more, very good post. Recently my Father in Law was asking me what airline I would prefer him fly from BOM to MAN. First thing I told him, avoid TK. Not only safety issue but also their punctuality, on ground service for transit at IST etc. is mediocre. Made him to pay extra to book on QR as EK was way expensive.

I can't believe TK is rated so high by people around, even on this site. I know if luck run out, even most safest airline carrier could crash too, but why take chance? I personally would restrict myself to reputed airlines in my eyes such as EK, QR, EY, SQ, BA etc.
 
ozark1
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:21 pm

[quote=bchandl,reply=23]Yahoo is an absolute joke. Don't waste your time with anything on that site
Could not agree more. It is an utterly shameful online version of The National Enquirer
 
JohnGalt
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:22 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 15):
They could have at least used a real Lion Air jumbo, instead of a FlightSim one!

Agreed! I almost spit out of my coffee when I saw that.
 
ytz
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 37):
Curious to hear your views on the widebody fleets. For some reason, criticism of TK seems to be very cryptic on a.net - not much in the way of details.

Same here. Would like to know if their widebody ops are safer or if that culture permeates into the widebody fliers too.
 
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fallap
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:35 pm

Aren't you overreacting? TK flies hundres of flights every day, and the last fatal one occured five years ago at AMS.

 
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
motif1
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 47):
Aren't you overreacting? TK flies hundres of flights every day, and the last fatal one occured five years ago at AMS.

it really is very hard to reconcile the modern image of TK and my own experience flying them over the Atlantic, inside Turkey and to SOF with what is being said on this forum ... I tend to trust this site though ...
I hope TK are doing something about their safety because I enjoy flying them and I love IST the city.

... just as they started flying to BOS ... very sad ...

M1
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VCEflyboy
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RE: The World's 10 Most Dangerous Airlines

Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 36):
I'm flying TK next year. Please tell me more about your insider experiences about TK?

FALLAP dont listen to these negative voices. TK is a very safe airlines, and also IMHO the very best to fly. But this you can judge by yourself.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 38):
Quoting Fallap (Reply 36):
Please tell me more about your insider experiences about TK?

Ok, if you wish. First of all, you should know that on the short-haul fleet - on the Boeings in particular - the skipper will be ex. military. He won't have the first clue about driving anything but a single seat fighter jet, and certainly hasn't the faintest idea what a multi-crew environment entails. The FO sitting next to him will have a university degree, but not unusually it will be one worth less than nothing outside Turkey. He also can't fly worth a damn, and will be cowering in his seat next to the ex. Air Force Major to his left. This may well lead to a situation where the skipper will fly them all to an accident site, with the FO sitting numb doing nothing. It could be worse, though, it could be a flight crewed only by skippers. In that case, run away as fast as you can.

One of my good friends, and a former colleague, had a stint as a 777 skipper with TK. The stories he told of the utter incompetence of the average Turkish pilot beggars belief; I know 50 hour PPL guys who know more about aviation and operates far safer than some of the characters he described. As a general rule, none of the local TK pilots speak very good English. A good portion of them, the vast majority probably, would never have passed a fair ICAO language proficiency test, yet on paper they're all level 6. In reality, they struggle with ATC every single day.

My mate decided his life was worth more than getting killed onboard an aircraft by an incompetent ex. fighter pilot, called it quits and moved back to his old job. He flatly refused to fly onboard any TK short-haul service, for the same reason.

The only reason they don't crash more often is because of the inherent safety and avionics of modern airliners. Take their magenta lines, auto flight and auto throttles away, and they'd be drilling holes in terra firma left, right and centre.

Yours is just verbal diarrhea. You write so many words but include not a single fact, other than "I heard that someone said.." or "my friend's friend's friend said".... A lot of airlines in Europe, Asia and South America emplpy former military pilots. Their skills are often even better than civilian-only pilots because they have been through emergency situations and they are accustomed to taking quick split-second decisions.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 39):
I think the Turkish 737-800 accident at Amsterdam was a wake up call. That operation was certainly not safe but it is probably not typical of Turkish Airlines operations nowadays. In the 70:s THY had real safetyproblems with many fatal crashed for many different reasons.

The different reasons were attributed to the manufacturers. If your plane has a defective cargo door that opens mid-flight, I dont think you can blame the airline or the pilot. Btw the same happened to a UA 747.

The Amsterdam crash is only testament to TK excellent maintenance! I suggest you study the investigation report.
The TK 737 had a faulty altimeter made by Boeing. They attempted to fix it and swap it countless times, but it was just defective and Boeing has at least in partly acknowledged that.

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