Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): So are we thinking of DFW as an "Asian Gateway" in that we would see significant service to/from DFW by Asian-flagged carriers (SQ, NH, JL, MH, KE, OZ, etc.) or are we thinking of AA significantly increasing flights between DFW and Asian destinations (NRT, HND, ICN, KUL, BKK, SIN, PEK, PVG, HKG, etc.) making it an "Asian Gateway" for AA? |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): DFW-AUH |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): To point one, Im unsure. On one hand, I look at ATL which at one or two points has received alot of service at once. Some stuck and some didnt. On the other hand, I look at IAH to which everything sticks. I think DFW, may fall somewhere in between. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): 1) Can the current level of service be sustained? |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): To point one, Im unsure. On one hand, I look at ATL which at one or two points has received alot of service at once. Some stuck and some didnt. On the other hand, I look at IAH to which everything sticks. I think DFW, may fall somewhere in between. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): To point two, the 787 will do wonders for a couple of these routes. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): To point three, if the carriers in question were European carriers, it would not be sustainable. However, given the resources that the ME3 have, I dont see any of them backing off DFW at all. The big capacity increase will really come from EK and the 380. I have always said that 17x weekly from DFW to the Middle East is do-able, but not when one of them is a 380. |
Quoting Flighty (Reply 3): Without transit visa liberalization, DFW's hub catchment area does not seem to justify 77Ws to Asia. JMO |
Quoting irishayes (Reply 4): I read somewhere (and this is a VERY unsubstantiated source) that EY is encouraged by the DFW flight and plans to increase frequencies up from 3x weekly in the future. |
Quoting irishayes (Reply 4): Would it be possible to send the 77W to DFW-NRT and then move one of the DFW-TYO flights to HND, maybe launch a AA or JL 787 flight to Haneda? Depends on a lot of factors. |
Quoting irishayes (Reply 4): 1. How LFs change (if at all) on EK's DFW flights now with a) the introduction of QR b) the introduction of the A380 and c) the advent of EY in December. It is noteworthy that DFW is EK's only North American market with LF's in the 90%+ since inception. |
Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 5): Would the flight(s) be in addition to what AA already serves from other cities, or would it be a transfer to DFW? |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): To point two, the 787 will do wonders for a couple of these routes. DFW-PVG would be far better suited for the 787 and DFW-ICN would be a great canidate for the newly configured 777. DFW-HKG is the wildcard. The 77W may be two big, but the 787 may be too small. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2): Definately not the former. DFW is not going to be flooded with Asian carriers. At best, JL may show themselves at some point and AA may launch DFW-PEK. |
Quoting Flighty (Reply 3): But why AA really has is a 787 type network. The 777s just don't look necessary imo. |
Quoting Flighty (Reply 3): Given the transit visas required, DFW is not a very convenient place for Latin America - Asia links. Although the geographic location is perfect. |
Quoting Flighty (Reply 3): Without transit visa liberalization, DFW's hub catchment area does not seem to justify 77Ws to Asia. |
Quoting irishayes (Reply 4): Separately, I wonder what will happen to DFWNRT with the growth in DFW-ASIA nonstops. Would it be possible to send the 77W to DFW-NRT and then move one of the DFW-TYO flights to HND, maybe launch a AA or JL 787 flight to Haneda? Depends on a lot of factors. |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): For AA, if for whatever reason they cant make LAX their Asia-Pacific gateway then DFW likely must be it |
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): The only question is how much DP is truly committed to his claim to make LAX a TPAC gateway |
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): how much (if any) LAX/DFW-Asia expansion will cannibalize ORD. |
Quoting commavia (Reply 13): Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): The only question is how much DP is truly committed to his claim to make LAX a TPAC gateway Recent actions - numerous new routes added in the last few years, recent upgauging of capacity in multiple markets, taking over T6 gates, etc. - indicates AA is very serious about LAX. |
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6): That said, what happened to their plan to make LAX their Pacific gateway to compete with UA in SFO and DL in SEA? |
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6): If NW can make a Pacific gateway out of DTW, I'm pretty sure the new AA can make a gateway out of DFW. |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): DFW geography is hardly ideal however. Both long stage lengths, and also not ideal for Northeast connections, while totally useless for West Coast traffic. |
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): And it's really 2 things you're discussing here : 1. ME services, primarily benefiting India and neighbors, and 2. East Asian services, benefiting everything from NRT to SIN. (DFW-DOH-SIN is a good 2000mi longer than DFW-NRT-SIN so I don't think they're really competing for the same market) |
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): 1. ME services - those are staying. Those deep pockets wont retreat unless it's external events like Kiev. |
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): 2. East Asia - outside of oneworld partners, the number of foreign East Asian carriers arriving at DFW will be far and few in between |
Quoting bchandl (Reply 11): If that's the case, they will just simply throw a 772 on it. AA fleet is big and varied enough to really have the right plane for the route. |
Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 10): PVG is the one that I think could be questionable, seeing as how other routes from the US to PVG have struggled recently. |
Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 10): I think HKG is going to do well, even with the capacity of the 77W. It may take some time, but if AA gives this 24 months, I think it will be a winner |
Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 10): QH will be helped by the codeshares with AA and One World. |
Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 10): My question to you, since you follow this more than I, is how are the fares on the ME3 going to the Gulf, and beyond to India? |
Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 10): My understanding from reading your previous posts is that DFW has a larger population with ties to South Asia than does Houston |
Quoting IAHWorldflyer (Reply 10): Finally, what's the primary traffic of KL at DFW? I doubt more than 30% of the plane terminates at AMS. So where are they connecting to? |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15): Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 8): And it's really 2 things you're discussing here : 1. ME services, primarily benefiting India and neighbors, and 2. East Asian services, benefiting everything from NRT to SIN. (DFW-DOH-SIN is a good 2000mi longer than DFW-NRT-SIN so I don't think they're really competing for the same market) Indeed I am, but while its true that DFW-NRT-SIN isnt as far as DFW-DOH-SIN, the ME3 actually carry more Southeast Asia traffic from here than one would think. Thats not specific to DFW either. EK and QR carry quite a bit of VFR from IAH-Asia as well. Its not the bulk of the traffic for sure, but its not nothing either. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): Also, Doug Parker has stated his desire (even if its not real) to fly DFW-PEK. |
Quoting Prost (Reply 17): How closely aligned are AA and CX? |
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): Not so sure about the former, as I am not familiar with the demographics and business links between DFW and major Asian metropolitan areas. |
Quoting Prost (Reply 22): I'll be curious if AA or JL will start DFW-NGO for Toyota and other auto related traffic. |
Quoting bartond (Reply 21): Regarding flights/service to Asia, I agree that there probably won't be another new carrier to serve East Asia, but I will also say that the recent influx of companies, including Toyota North America, to relocate their headquarters to DFW can not hurt DFW's chances for keeping all of the new service. A few more companies (mostly tech) have recently moved their HQ's from San Diego and other points within California to DFW so this will only help DFW's Asia flights. Every little bit helps. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15): There are no codeshares from AA on DFW-DOH-XXX unlike IAH, MIA, ORD, IAD, and JFK which AA codes QR's flights. |
Quoting bartond (Reply 21): EK looks well-established and will probably stick around, but Qatar and Etihad may have to duke it out to see who the second established player is. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): 1) Can the current level of service be sustained? 2) Will the growing AA fleet help with the more secondary DFW-Asia routes (Im speaking mainly of PVG but also HKG as well)? 3) The ME3 are unleashing an insane amount of capacity at DFW in a very short amount of time. Is this sustainable? |
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 6): If NW can make a Pacific gateway out of DTW, I'm pretty sure the new AA can make a gateway out of DFW. |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28): DFW has little O and D to Asia. |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28): Customers will back track if the price is right. NE (where the Asians are)-DFW-Asia? |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 15): The 772 doesnt have the legs. |
Quoting Flighty (Reply 12): |
Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 14): Serious about LAX as a hub versus committed to LAX as a TPAC gateway aren't 1-to-1. |
Quoting Prost (Reply 17): How closely aligned are AA and CX? |
Quoting Prost (Reply 17): I always felt that AA could do their best by funneling passengers to TYO and HKG to join up with oneworld partners JL and CX to meet their customers needs. |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20): but even that has some issues as JL tries to find its footing on stage again which does not always align with AA interest. |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27): As part of his Q&A with the moderator NBCs Peter Greenberg he mentioned he just spent this morning talking about how AA could build LAX into "our Asian gateway". In other comments however he stated however AA was not going to be hasty in moving the chess pieces around globe, and the primary taks and focus for everyone was the merger and integration would take till late 2015. |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27): such as "getting rid of the MD-80 as quickly as we can" (which drew an applause) |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27): Oh p.s. - for anyone worried about AAdvantage changes (revenue model ala DL/UA) he said while "we may chose to do that", any changes to FF'er program structure before full integration would add needless complication and be "foolish". |
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 27): As part of his Q&A with the moderator NBCs Peter Greenberg he mentioned he just spent this morning talking about how AA could build LAX into "our Asian gateway". |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 29): I dont think you know much about this market..... |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): 2) Will the growing AA fleet help with the more secondary DFW-Asia routes (Im speaking mainly of PVG but also HKG as well)? |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 34): I live in Queens. And I fly planes to Texas 3 times a week. I know an Asian neighborhood when I see one. You don't have one in Dallas. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9): In my opinion, the best thing to do is to have one 77W on DFW-NRT and one 77W on DFW-HKG to even out the traffic flows. |
Quoting texdravid (Reply 36): Then you have not seen much of Dallas then. North Dallas/Farmers Branch just south of 635 and east of 35 is a Korean stronghold. So many businesses, restaurants, shops, legal services, etc. Great sushi at Korea House! While we don't have an "official" Korea town or "official" Chinatown, we have pockets throughout the metroplex of Asians of all stripes and backgrounds. Frisco is full of Indian engineers and doctors. Irving has the DFW Hindu temple and plenty of Indians, as does Las Colinas. Its just that Asians here are well-integrated into the communities and are not shunted into racial/ethnic specific enclaves. Furthermore, like others have stated, the O&D to Asia is substantial, and homegrown. Please come by the beautiful Terminal D in the late mornings and afternoons. From KE and EK in the mornings to LH and BA in the afternoon, the throng of Asian individuals is amazing. Lol, I am there frequently dropping off friends and relatives all the time. |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 34): I live in Queens. And I fly planes to Texas 3 times a week. I know an Asian neighborhood when I see one. You don't have one in Dallas. |
Quoting commavia (Reply 39): You're right. Dallas doesn't "have one" Asian neighborhood. It has several. Big ones. I'm not disputing that at least some of these DFW-Asia flights are being filled largely with connections - DFW is the world's busiest largest airline hub, after all - but respectfully, the statement you made so definitively above is simply not reflective of reality here in the Dallas/Fort Worth metro area. |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 40): the numbers aren't there compared to ny dc sf la |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 40): Secondly the geography isn't there. |
Quoting bchandl (Reply 41): It's not fair to compare any other community to the ethnic communities of NYC. NYC is 20m people, and one of the most ethnically diverse metros in the world. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Thread starter): DFW As An Asian Gateway - Is It Plausible? |
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 34): I live in Queens. And I fly planes to Texas 3 times a week. I know an Asian neighborhood when I see one. You don't have one in Dallas. |
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 24): Well, Toyota is moving their N. American headquarters to DFW |
Quoting Prost (Reply 17): How closely aligned are AA and CX? |
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 44): The recent expansion only caught up with demand, some of it because of healthy O&D and business ties |
Quoting commavia (Reply 42): But if DFW can capture much of the traffic going to many of the smaller markets in the eastern and southern U.S. for which it is well-situated geographically, and it can do so with minimal competition from other hubs, isn't that good enough? |
Quoting CXGabriel (Reply 47): I can see Houston to HKG/Asia traffic can be won by AA despite it's a UA's hub. |