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voodoo
Topic Author
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C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:00 pm

Seems the C-Series (alone or in combo with some SSJs) is leading the Cityjet consideration viz. LCY services.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...ked-by-london-city-specialist.html
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aviationaware
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:15 am

Interesting. I would have thought this was a sure fire win for Embraer, as the E190 is LCY certified and much cheaper to have than the CSeries. What's very interesting is that the E2 seems to have killed this order for Embraer. This means residual value considerations were at the forefront of this contest.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:43 am

It's difficult to get excited about sales campaigns. All airlines are going to look at all possible candidates to fill their needs so news that an airline is looking at the CSeries, isn't really news.

Actual sales are a different matter entirely.
What the...?
 
columba
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:54 am

Wöhrl is surely on of the most interesting personas in today´s aviation world. As a huge fan of the CSeries I do hope that we this is not just a rumor and we will see the CSeries with Cityjet and maybe later at some point with Intersky.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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lollomz
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:01 am

Personally I really hope to see the SSJ in Cityjet colors in the future: fingers crossed!!!
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r2rho
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:01 pm

I wonder if the SSJ is a serious consideration or just a negotiating tactic to get cheaper airplanes - which likely won't work since BBD is not known for its discounts. I'd love to see the SSJ at CityJet!
The Cseries though would be quite a jump in capacity respect to RJ85's and F50's - specially if they get the CS300 in addition.
A mixed fleet would not be wise IMO - CityJet does not have the size for that, a single type would be better.
 
planemaker
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:17 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 5):

I wonder if the SSJ is a serious consideration or just a negotiating tactic to get cheaper airplanes - which likely won't work since BBD is not known for its discounts. I'd love to see the SSJ at CityJet!

It will be interesting to see how CityJet will end up weighting their criteria: “It’s not just about the model. It’s about maintenance, reliability, simulator capacities, resale potential, financing and total costs.” As per the article, CityJet is looking at:

- CS100 & CS300

- Superjet 100LR & CS300

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 1):
What's very interesting is that the E2 seems to have killed this order for Embraer. This means residual value considerations were at the forefront of this contest.

Perhpas it could be the 190E2 EIS timing and/or the notable smaller pax capacity vs competitors.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
aviationaware
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:42 pm

Quoting planemaker (Reply 6):
It will be interesting to see how CityJet will end up weighting their criteria: “It’s not just about the model. It’s about maintenance, reliability, simulator capacities, resale potential, financing and total costs.”

Also a very interesting notion, as the Superjet is not exactly known to be a top performer in those categories. Aeroflot has had excessive technical problems with the SSJ since EIS.
 
golfradio
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:50 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 7):

But look at 4O. Their dispatch reliability is at 99.7% and they are very happy with their SSJ fleet. I think SSJ might not get picked up for other reasons than performance. They will have to consider issues like sanctions and it's impact of product support.

But being a CSeries fan, I will be happy if BBD gets the order.
CSeries forever. Bring back the old site.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:28 pm

In my view CityJet need a mixed fleet for their wider operation; the ATR 72 and a next generation regional jet. It would certainly be interesting to know if or how Bombardier are positioning the CS300 as an aircraft compatible with LCY, this will be a key factor I suspect.

The SSJ is an interesting but not unexpected contender here. Compared to the C Series, E2 and MRJ it exhibits a poor fuel consumption and large noise footprint. But it is also much cheaper to acquire and supposedly cheaper/easier to maintain as well. Certainly a great contender against current generation aircraft, but my take is that this will not be enough to overcome the benefits of operating a next generation aircraft such as the C Series, if operationally possible, and I can't see the benefit in operating both the SSJ and CS300.

However that leads onto the issue of capacity at LCY and what aircraft are operationally feasible. The stand replacement and expansion plans are critical to airlines physically being able to operate the C Series into LCY in any volume, as only the four newest stands can accommodate it. Fine for Swiss to park alongside the BA 318s, but this could not accommodate a CityJet fleet as well. The airport's plans were due to be put before Newnham Council last Thursday, now I've not heard any news on whether they were approved or rejected - but considering this was the same day that MH17 was shot down it was hardly the time to publicise either outcome in the press.

Even if they have been approved in outline permission, the new infrastructure is years away from completion, so if the article is correct and CityJet really want to overhaul their fleet in a two and a half year process, the C Series may not actually be an option, at least in the short term. So do they instead select an aircraft (like the SSJ or E90) which is compatible with the current stands as a long term replacement, a leased interim replacement before taking the C Series, or do they postpone the fleet replacement altogether until the new stands are available.

I certainly can't imagine they will be able to make a decision on the replacement until it is known whether the news stands have been permitted and what the construction time-scale will be.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
planemaker
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
I certainly can't imagine they will be able to make a decision on the replacement until it is known whether the news stands have been permitted and what the construction time-scale will be.

The article mentions Sept 2014 when a decision could be made... however, CityJet "could still push back a decision on the City fleet for a year" . There is naturally uncertainty with the article mentioning:

- "replace about 10 Avro RJ85 planes as their leases expire".

- "wider Avro fleet of 19 planes due to be stood down as part of a 2 1/2 year renewal plan".

- "Belgian arm VLM operating 15 aging Fokker 50 turboprops".

- "may also acquire Airbus A320s or Boeing 737s for operations away from the London terminal".


So... we don't really know when or what!  
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
r2rho
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:55 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 7):
the Superjet is not exactly known to be a top performer in those categories. Aeroflot has had excessive technical problems with the SSJ since EIS.

There is more to the so-called "technical issues" at Aeroflot than what we know (specially from Western media). A good bit of politics mixed in there plus a negotiating tactic against Sukhoi. And then some true technical issues as well. Furthermore SU got the first frames which were not up to spec. These are progressively being replaced by Sukhoi for all-new ones.
Interjet - the first operator to take the SSJ seriously - is achieving excellent reliability.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
the ATR 72 and a next generation regional jet.

I agree and am surprised not to see the ATR72 in there, as replacement for the F50's.
 
cabochris
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RE: C-Series Leading Cityjets Consideration

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:50 pm

No SSJs. Sanctions on Russia now in place for the foreseeable future.

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