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MSYtristar
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NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:27 pm

NK grows again.

DTW-ATL begins 11/2
ORD-ATL begins 11/2
ORD-MSY begins 11/6
DTW-MSY begins 11/6

I'm not sure if anything else is being added...just ran across these two newspaper articles and thought I'd share.

http://www.nola.com/business/index.s...s_announces_nons.html#incart_river

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...s-flights-20140730,0,5954114.story

[Edited 2014-07-30 10:35:56]

[Edited 2014-07-30 10:36:33]
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:30 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
DTW-MSY begins 11/6

I am surprised they haven't gone after this one before, although I did hear they have recently been hiring for DTW based Flight Attendants, so there might be more on the horizon
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MSYtristar
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:33 pm

DTW-ATL is being added as well. That should be a good one.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:41 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
DTW-ATL is being added as well. That should be a good one.

Only one competitor, although it will undoubtedly lower fares
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Capt.Fantastic
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:43 pm

Two competitors  
Quoting jetblueguy2006 (Reply 3):
Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
DTW-ATL is being added as well. That should be a good one.

Only one competitor, although it will undoubtedly lower fares
 
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enilria
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
That should be a good one.

This should speed up WN's slow demise in ATL. I think in markets where NK and DL both operate there ultimately isn't a place for WN unless it is a traditionally loyal market for WN like AUS. I think we will see NK and F9 both advance in ATL. Maybe if EA gets off the ground they will join the party too.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:49 pm

NK has 8 A320's coming in the second half of the year, so lots of added flying will be forthcoming.
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ORDfan
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:51 pm

Yea there's been some chatter on here about NK growing out ORD. I'm not a fan, but I'm all for the competition and added pressure on UA, AA, and even WN. 21/day @ ORD still keeps them just behind their DFW hub, but ahead of their DTW hub. So does that kind of make ORD a defacto hub?
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:51 pm

I wonder if both NK and F9 can survive on ATL-ORD? Huge market obviously, but you never know.

[Edited 2014-07-30 10:52:56]
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 5):
Two competitors

Haha, completely forgot that WN/FL flies to ATL...thanks for the reminder
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Mexicana757
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:15 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 8):
I wonder if both NK and F9 can survive on ATL-ORD? Huge market obviously, but you never know.

Spirit responding to F9? Should be interesting to see how these two perform on that route.
 
sdoyon
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:39 am

Thought it would be interesting to look at pricing (even though other airlines haven't had a chance to adjust). Here is ORD-ATL for 11/18 with one carry-on and one checked bag:

Airline.....Fare.......Carry-On.....Checked Bag.....Total
NK.........$42.09....$26.............$21...................$89.09
F9..........$62.10....$25.............$20...................$107.10
AA.........$142.......$0...............$25...................$167.00
DL.........$318.10...$0...............$25...................$343.10
UA.........$318.10...$0...............$25...................$343.10

WN/FL...$141.10...$0...............$0.....................$141.10 (MDW)
 
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mariner
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 10):
Spirit responding to F9? Should be interesting to see how these two perform on that route.

Much as Frontier and Spirit compete on several routes out of DEN, I guess, and will compete on DEN-ORD.

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spinkid
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:21 am

Great to see NK growing at Detroit again!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:29 am

I'm fairly certain there has never been two airlines flying in the DTW-MSY market at the same time. Two thumbs up for competition..

Quoting mariner (Reply 12):
Much as Frontier and Spirit compete on several routes out of DEN, I guess, and will compete on DEN-ORD.

I'm curious about this one. I suspect both can co-exist, but it'll be interesting to follow, since both airlines are growing in both cities as of late.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:34 am

They are also adding IAH-MSY. If it's only one flight a day, it will most likely fail, since most people drive from Houston to New Orleans and prefer the frequency.
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MSYtristar
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:41 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 15):
They are also adding IAH-MSY. If it's only one flight a day, it will most likely fail, since most people drive from Houston to New Orleans and prefer the frequency.

That one starts this Friday. It's actually same plane service IAH-MSY-FLL...and it's getting upgauged to an A320 next month.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:49 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
This should speed up WN's slow demise in ATL

You still wont let this go. One flight from DTW-ATL isnt going to drive WN off the route or out of ATL. NK isnt stealing DL or WN passengers. Their client base is people who are very infrequent flyers who do more flying once NK enters the market.
 
lpdal
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:53 am

Great for NK, they are growing at a rapid pace. Now if we could only see some more Intrafloridian routes, I'm thinking FLL-JAX-FLL and FLL-EYW-FLL (WN left that market a few months back).

-LPDAL
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dtwpilot225
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:56 am

Now that they are growing Dtw again let's hope they keep it. Once I saw Dtw-mci added I thought all bets were off for future city pairs. What about future ones now? How about Dtw-Phx Dtw-clt Dtw-Bos Dtw-phl
 
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:16 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 14):
I'm curious about this one. I suspect both can co-exist, but it'll be interesting to follow, since both airlines are growing in both cities as of late.

It's one flight a day each, I'd be surprised if that huge ATL/ORD market can't support both.

The surprise to me is Delta - previously the most fierce turf defender around - who has watched growth by both Frontier and Spirit at its hubs and scarcely said "meh."

Perhaps Delta understands that the ULCC's are no threat to its market.

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Bobloblaw
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:22 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 18):
Great for NK, they are growing at a rapid pace. Now if we could only see some more Intrafloridian routes, I'm thinking FLL-JAX-FLL and FLL-EYW-FLL (WN left that market a few months back).

WN dropped MCO and TPA, not FLL to Key West.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
The surprise to me is Delta - previously the most fierce turf defender around - who has watched growth by both Frontier and Spirit at its hubs and scarcely said "meh."

Because there is nothing DL can do. F9 and NK are going after passengers that DL doesnt carry. NK and F9 are stimulating new traffic. Passengers who dont care about Skymiles or SkyClub. Delta's Atlanta flights are running at nearly 90% Loads. Matching NK or F9 only dilutes revenue and does nothing to keep passengers off NK or F9.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:27 am

Also part of the press release that was somewhat in the shadows since it's not a new route was ORD-BWI going year round. Obviously a better than expected performer as ORD-BWI was originally seasonal. The focus as of late fit NK definitely has been the upper Midwest (namely growth out of DTW and ORD), where a year ago it was DFW, and a year before that it was building up LAS.

As LAXintl points out, with 8 more planes coming online by years end, it will be interesting to see where these frames are deployed. I'm guessing since these new additions are early Nov '14 start dates, many new route/cities/frequency announcements will be forthcoming very soon. I'm estimating that these new additions represent usage of roughly 1.5 aircraft per day based on Spirits current daily usage. Essentially they can repeat an announcement of explanation the same size of this one just over 4 more times with the aircraft they're getting this year (not to mention the 8 that are coming the first half of next year).

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 8):
I wonder if both NK and F9 can survive on ATL-ORD? Huge market obviously, but you never know.
Quoting Mexicana757 (Reply 10):
Spirit responding to F9? Should be interesting to see how these two perform on that route.

Honestly, I think there will be room for both. If DEN-DFW, DEN-PHX, DEN-LAS, DEN-MSP, DEN-DTW, DEN-IAH, and DEN-FLL can all support multiple daily frequencies between F9 and NK, not to mention a formidable cadre of legacy airline flights plus WN flights, I think ORD-ATL will be able to support these 2 together. The route is currently is basically DL with 11 or so main lines and a token RJ presence from UA and AA to feed the route on the ORD side (plus WN and DL at MDW). If these two were in competition on the route, all other things being equal (price, service, ancillary fees, etc.), Spirit does seem to have a slight advantage. Their flight is daily where Frontier is 4x weekly. Spirit also has a pretty well established focus city in ORD that will be able to feed the flight somewhat on the ORD (yes, I know Spirit's point to point network doesn't mean too many connectors, but there are always some). F9s Chicago presence has basically just some MDW-DEN flying over the last 15 or so years plus the Apple Vacation charters. But again, I think neither will have any problem filling planes and making money on the route.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:07 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
I think in markets where NK and DL both operate there ultimately isn't a place for WN unless it is a traditionally loyal market for WN like AUS. I think we will see NK and F9 both advance in ATL. Maybe if EA gets off the ground they will join the party too.

So let me understand this. Airlines with no hub and no feed in ATL are going to drive an airline with feed and a local market presence out of ATL? Yet amazingly, in DEN WN manages to compete with two other airlines in a city with nearly 2 million fewer people than ATL. So WN cant make ATL work but Eastern will.
 
727LOVER
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:18 am

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 11):
Airline.....Fare.......Carry-On.....Checked Bag.....Total
SA)">NK.........$42.09....$26.............$21...................$89.09
SA)">F9..........$62.10....$25.............$20...................$107.10
SA)">AA.........$142.......$0...............$25...................$167.00
SA)">DL.........$318.10...$0...............$25...................$343.10
SA)">UA.........$318.10...$0...............$25...................$343.10

SA)">WN/FL...$141.10...$0...............$0.....................$141.10 (MDW)

So wait, I thought it was BY THE TIME YOU ADD UP ALL THE FEES, IT'S THE SAME....isn't that what we always hear?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:19 am

[







Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 24):
So wait, I thought it was BY THE TIME YOU ADD UP ALL THE FEES, IT'S THE SAME....isn't that what we always hear?

There are more Fees for NK and F9 than listed there.
 
727LOVER
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:47 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 25):
There are more Fees for NK and F9 than listed there.

Such as.....and don't say food & drink....because you can bring your own dang food....and bring an empty water bottle and fill it past security and add flavored powder
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
lpdal
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:01 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 21):
WN dropped MCO and TPA, not FLL to Key West.

WN did not drop FLL-TPA-FLL, and they did drop EYW. You can book FLL-TPA-FLL right now, and here's a random search on a Saturday in October:



Typing "EYW" or "Key West" returns a "No Airport Found" error message. WN no longer serves neither EYW nor JAX.

-LPDAL
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727LOVER
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:07 am

I think TPA-FLL is WN's sole remaining intra-Florida service
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
lpdal
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:56 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 30):
WN didn't drop TPA-FLL.   As of now EYW is not served from FLL by WN.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2014-07-30 23:00:42]
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SurfandSnow
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:15 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
ORD-ATL begins 11/2
ORD-MSY begins 11/6

I'm guessing these moves serve as further proof that NK got additional gate space at ORD, if only partial access to one of the divested AA gates. At this point it seems F9 and NK got some or all of the newly available divested gate capacity. On that note, VX has publicly stated its desire for an additional ORD gate, with the proposed addition of ORD-DAL only being possible if they get one. 2 of VX's newly acquired LGA slots are still unaccounted for, I think they may want to add 2x daily ORD-LGA service too. I've also wondered if airlines like B6, AS, or even WS could be interested in expanding from ORD. IMO B6 is long overdue to add ORD-FLL, maybe they'd even want to try ORD-MCO too. AS could be in a good position to add stuff like ORD-SAN, ORD-SJC, or even ORD-SMF. WS could probably do very well on the ORD-YYZ route.

Now the only obvious domestic route addition for NK from ORD would be SAN, although I think PHL and seasonal PBI could be good opportunities as well (as it stands today they wouldn't have to worry about any F9 competition). Internationally, I wonder if ORD-TLC could work, or maybe some Caribbean service like ORD-AUA/MBJ/PUJ etc.

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
DTW-ATL begins 11/2
Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
DTW-MSY begins 11/6

Nice to see DTW really getting some love from the one LCC that actually seems to do well there. Though, I will say it is remarkable that both F9 and NK have been taking so much interest in DTW and particularly ATL lately. With respect to Atlanta I suppose the replacement of FL's very low fares with notably higher WN fares has left a void for the ULCCs to fill. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see NK go after other WN routes as well, like ATL-MSY, BWI-ATL/MSY, DEN-ATL/MSY, etc.
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jcwr56
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:36 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 31):
I'm guessing these moves serve as further proof that NK got additional gate space at ORD, if only partial access to one of the divested AA gates. At this point it seems F9 and NK got some or all of the newly available divested gate capacity.

They will have access to L1 and L2, but not on a preferred basis like they do with 7, 9 and 11. I'm also hearing some rumblings that other "L" gates could go common use on the even number side.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 27):
WN no longer serves neither EYW nor JAX.

What in the world are you talking about? WN most certainly still serves JAX (although they have shrunk a lot there).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
727LOVER
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:26 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
What in the world are you talking about? WN most certainly still serves JAX (although they have shrunk a lot there).

He meant from FLL....are you not following along?   
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:29 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 34):
He meant from FLL

Had he meant that, he should have written that, not lumped in JAX with a station they have, in fact, closed.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 35):

Personally, I was able to infer what he was talking about.
 
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N587NK
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:05 pm

How I read it originally was that WN no longer serves FLL-MCO and FLL-TPA. When I first saw that I thought WN still does serve FLL-TPA because many NK TPA commuters still use WN to get home!! Its too bad they dropped the MCO flights!!!!
 
brilondon
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 24):
So wait, I thought it was BY THE TIME YOU ADD UP ALL THE FEES, IT'S THE SAME....isn't that what we always hear?

You did not add up all the fees. You still have to check in and if you want to reserve a seat you have to pay for that and you have to add checked baggage.
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n521na
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:52 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 38):
You did not add up all the fees. You still have to check in and if you want to reserve a seat you have to pay for that and you have to add checked baggage.

If you're checking a bag, then you're probably not going to bring a carry on and vice versa. Also, all other airlines, besides WN and B6 will be charging for that first checked bag so, no, checked baggage does not need to be added.

Spirit only charges for check in if you check in at the airport. If you check in online but print your boarding pass at the airport, this fee is waived. I'm not even sure they still charge the check-in fee since I don't see it on their website.

But let's say you really want to have that seat assignment and you really can't check-in online for whatever reason, that's only an additional $15, bringing Spirit's total to $104.09. Still $40 cheaper than WN...

And you don't get a seat assignment on WN.
 
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:58 pm

[/quote]

Quoting brilondon (Reply 38):
You did not add up all the fees. You still have to check in and if you want to reserve a seat you have to pay for that and you have to add checked baggage.

The poster included a carry-on and checked bag in the example price, so obviously if unwanted remove so increasing the differential between NK and the others. Like reserving a seat, these are optional. If you want to save a bit of money, don't take it or do it. P.S. you don't pay a fee to check-in if you check-in online like most in the Western world now do.

[Edited 2014-07-31 10:05:58]
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SANFan
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:09 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 30):
Now the only obvious domestic route addition for NK from ORD would be SAN,

I've been half expecting to see this route started for a while now. Since May of 2012, NK has consistently offered a direct roundtrip flight between the 2 cities (via LAS.) This is certainly no guarantee of any future move but it could very well show that there is constant traffic for Spirit in the market.

My guess is since NK at ORD is short on gate space and when/if the carrier secures more real estate there, daily, nonstop, year-round service to SAN will begin. That's my hope anyway.  

bb
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:18 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 24):
So wait, I thought it was BY THE TIME YOU ADD UP ALL THE FEES, IT'S THE SAME....isn't that what we always hear?

Spirit also has passenger usage fee $8.99-$16.99 each way, their DOT fee $2, $15 if booked over phone.
And as for above that stated if you check one, prob won't carry on and vice-versa, these days I would highly disagree.
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 42):
Spirit also has passenger usage fee $8.99-$16.99 each way, their DOT fee $2, $15 if booked over phone.

If you do a dummy booking, the 'base fare' automatically includes the flight, unintended consequences, and pax usage fee. You'd have to deliberately exclude them. What % of NK's pax book over the phone?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Nola
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RE: NK Adds ORD-ATL/MSY; DTW-ATL/MSY

Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 15):
They are also adding IAH-MSY. If it's only one flight a day, it will most likely fail, since most people drive from Houston to New Orleans and prefer the frequency.

There is almost hourly service to either IAH or HOU on UA/WN. It is a five to six hour drive from Houston to New Orleans. NK's target customer might drive it, but there is basically hourly service between MSY and the Houston airports on UA and WN....

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