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LLA001
Posts: 215
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:47 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 97):
As you can see, there is still not much activity.

If you have photoshop or any other drawing tool, can you mark the boundaries of the airport on the photograph ?
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:25 am

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 100):

I tried to make a simple drawing for you. However I'm not sure about exact boundaries.
http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p682/UmutAydinOrtana/3rdAirportPosition27-8-2014_zps527ad17f.png
The future is in the skies.
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:27 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 101):
I tried to make a simple drawing for you. However I'm not sure about exact boundaries.

Thanks for this it makes it easier to understand.   
 
LLA001
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:17 pm

Thank you,

Indeed I expected more progress compared to 3rd bridge highway constructions progress. It is a very big area to level out.

Is it true that all of the airspace above airport construction area is restricted airspace ?

Quoting TK105 (Reply 101):
I tried to make a simple drawing for you. However I'm not sure about exact boundaries.
 
wing
Posts: 1366
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:03 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 103):
s it true that all of the airspace above airport construction area is restricted airspace ?

No its not.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 103):
ndeed I expected more progress

this area is full of tens of closed mines,which are very deep and wide in diameter.The hardest part is to fill them with something hard enough to support when airport facilites are built over it.The current selected area is reaaly hard to built and as aviation wise its a factually wrong place to built an airport.All the bad weather and storms coming to Marmara starts from there.
Weall have to get used to some roller coaster rides approaching to istanbul in the future
follow me on my facebook page" captain wing's journey log"
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting wing (Reply 104):
Weall have to get used to some roller coaster rides approaching to istanbul in the future

Great !!!!!  
Something to look forward to  
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:28 pm

Don't know if this was mentioned on here but Air Serbia returned to IST on August 1st with daily flights operated by the A319.
There is also a new Turkey-Serbia bilateral in place which bans TK from sending anything bigger than an B737-800 to Belgrade (charters are excluded). This means that they can't send the A321 either. Turkish Airlines was also forced to reduce its presence in BEG to double daily flights- Pegasus was unaffected.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:35 am

TK pilot proposes to girlfriend onboard during P/A announcement.

Story with video:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/tur...riage-proposal-at-38000-feet.aspx?

=

     
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:12 am

Anyone a link to interior pics yet?

Presidential jet arrives one day after Erdoğan inauguration

Turkey’s new presidential jet, which was likened by some observers to the United States’ Air Force One, has been delivered, one day after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s inauguration.
The Airbus A330-200 Prestige, which landed at Istanbul’s Sabiha Gökçen Airport in the morning of Aug. 29, was ordered by Erdoğan two and a half years ago.
The 90-seat aircraft, which was modified by San Diego-based Gore Design, will start service in Ankara after customs and repainting procedures are completed in Istanbul.
Main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) deputy chair Sezgin Tanrıkulu filed a parliamentary question on Aug. 27, demanding a government response over reports that the aircraft cost 436 million Turkish Liras and was bought using state finances.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/pre...pageID=238&nID=71060&NewsCatID=338
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:34 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 108):
Aug. 27, demanding a government response over reports that the aircraft cost 436 million Turkish Liras and was bought using state finances.

I don't get it. How else are they supposed to pay for this governmental aircraft other than using state finances? Did they expect Erdogan to pay from his pockets? After all, it is not his personal jet.
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:44 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 109):
I don't get it. How else are they supposed to pay for this governmental aircraft other than using state finances? Did they expect Erdogan to pay from his pockets? After all, it is not his personal jet.

Indeed despite what people think of the new President the state does need a proper aircraft to get around for state business. Some say he should fly civil flights but I dont think that is a viable option for both security and other reasons. There are some in the Parliament who will try to use it as a weapon and it can get heated at times. Only a few weeks back it broke out it a full blown fist fight !
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:14 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 110):

Oh well... opposition will always trash the government, after all, that's what they are paid for.

So the presidential aircraft is currently all white? Will it be based at Ankara airport or at some military airport?
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:25 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 111):
Will it be based at Ankara airport or at some military airport?

It will be based here in Ankara together with other government aircrafts (including A319 and couple of smaller business jets) at ESB:

The future is in the skies.
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:29 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 112):

Great, thank you!
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 106):
There is also a new Turkey-Serbia bilateral in place which bans TK from sending anything bigger than an B737-800 to Belgrade (charters are excluded). This means that they can't send the A321 either. Turkish Airlines was also forced to reduce its presence in BEG to double daily flights- Pegasus was unaffected.

Sounds like classic protectionism. Unfortunately the ones that lose will be consumers.
mercure f-wtcc
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 114):

I don't see how they will lose? Air Serbia returned to Ataturk, Pegasus remained unaffected and Turkish Airlines got to keep double daily flights despite having more frequencies than the bilateral allows it (it says that Serbian carriers and Turkish ones should operate equal number of flights).
The new bilateral was put in place because Air Serbia could not secure proper slots at IST. By the way, Turkish Airlines Cargo and Anadolujet's charter flights remain unaffected.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 112):
It will be based here in Ankara together with other government aircrafts (including A319 and couple of smaller business jets) at ESB:

There is talk of moving the VIP fleet to Ankara Etimesgut air base.
There is pressure to move the army air school at Etimesgut to Eskisehir which would open the airport.

The main push for this is that there is a new government complex including future prime ministry that is being built nearby, so Etimesgut would provide very easy access versus the long drive or helicopter ride to ESB.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 115):
I don't see how they will lose?

The world is headed towards open-skies, not more restrictive bilaterals.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 116):

Well, though I agree with you unfortunately this was a needed move in order to secure daily slots at IST. Air Serbia was offered 02.30 and 04.30 departure slots at IST which would have been a disaster for the carriers.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:00 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 117):
Well, though I agree with you unfortunately this was a needed move in order to secure daily slots at IST. Air Serbia was offered 02.30 and 04.30 departure slots at IST which would have been a disaster for the carriers.

Air service agreements and slots should never mix.

Should the UK hand slots out at LHR just because you have bilateral rights to service London? Of course not, and actually UK government has no authority over LHR slots. You want a LHR slot, then take what is available, or go buy one instead.

IST is the same. Not many free slots are available. Even LH for 2 years now has been unable to launch a 4th FRA flight with times that work for its hub structure. So your options are to take what is available or trade with another airline - something Air Canada for example did.

So its rather childish to work backwards to utilize government agreement in order to gain something that is strictly a commercial issue.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:09 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 118):

Obviously the ASA and the slots should not be mixed but when the airline has failed to secure slots for two seasons then obviously they are going to turn to the government which will use the bilateral to protect its carrier against an unfair situation. Not to mention that the Turkish authorities refused to allow Air Serbia to keep on using Jat Airways' slots.
It's not as if JU asked for its fourth daily flight, all they were asking is for 7 weekly slots, that's not that much and I am sure they could have found them. Especially since Serbia had turned a blind eye when it came to the presence of Turkish carriers in Belgrade- in relation to what was agreed in 1953 by Yugoslavia and Turkey.
Before the new ASA was concluded Turkish Airlines had 17 weekly flights, Pegasus 5 and Air Serbia had 7 to SAW. The bilateral even then stated that both Serbian and Turkish carriers must have the same number of frequencies.

Actually, this whole mess was solved by Davutoglu.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:59 pm

First TK Cargo flight to Hyderabad.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 119):


Personally I think the Serbian side went somewhere they should not have and did it the wrong way. I'll leave it at that, as I do know quite a bit more about the behind the scenes events. But the story is not over yet, the pot will get even more mixed up.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 120):

Doubt it since the very top of Turkish political elite got involved and Air Serbia has no ambitions to expand in Turkey beyond the daily flight to Ataturk.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 121):
Doubt it since the very top of Turkish political elite got involved and Air Serbia has no ambitions to expand in Turkey beyond the daily flight to Ataturk.

That's part of the problem, people that have nothing to do with this were bothered to intervene. There are ways to deal with a slot problem. Stay tuned.

And no Air Serbia is not done in Turkey. They are in talks about other opportunities. Matter of fact, just yesterday !
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 122):

I still don't agree with you. Why should they lose even more money by delaying even further their return to IST? If they could have secured slots via political channels then good for them.
None of these 'opportunities' are serious, I know for a fact.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:57 pm

Yes seems strange process to get prime minister involved in petty slot issue. Maybe airline should contact David Cameron or Shinzo Abe will unlock slots at respective airports.

But regardless, why limit to TK only 2 x daily @ BEG with 738? They should easily be able to do 3 and eventually 4. Good connection banks for beyond transfer opportunity.
Seems Serbia to protect JU is limiting options for its own consumers, and potentially making their global travel more expensive. Goes counter to world becoming more liberal in with air service.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:03 pm

Are slots in Turkey not managed per standard IATA protocols?

[Edited 2014-08-29 11:03:52]
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:17 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 123):
I still don't agree with you.

Disagree if you want. The process just looks bad and left bad impression how a simple commercial issue was handled. Slots are slots, and there is a well established legal process for them.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 123):
None of these 'opportunities' are serious, I know for a fact.

If so why are JU executives spending time negotiating if they are not serious? I better let parties know this fact, so they dont waste time on JU then.


Quoting mercure1 (Reply 125):
Are slots in Turkey not managed per standard IATA protocols?

Of course they are.

DHMI (state airports authority) slot coordination group manages them for ADB, AYT, BJV, DLM, ESB, IST and SAW airports per IATA WSG standards.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 116):
There is talk of moving the VIP fleet to Ankara Etimesgut air base.

I highly doubt about it. ANK has 2600m runway according to Wikipedia which is shorter than MTOW take off distance of A332 which is 2770m at sea level as per Wikipedia. Moreover they have build a brand new luxurious VIP terminal and those exclusive hangars at ESB which I posted photograph above. As a result, I consider this very unlikely on short/medium terms.
The future is in the skies.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 127):
I highly doubt about it. ANK has 2600m runway according to Wikipedia which is shorter than MTOW take off distance of A332 which is 2770m at sea level as per Wikipedia. Moreover they have build a brand new luxurious VIP terminal and those exclusive hangars at ESB which I posted photograph above. As a result, I consider this very unlikely on short/medium terms.

Here you go --

Here are some recent news stories. Its happening and been planned for about 2 years.

Airport to be constructed for new Prime Ministry building
http://www.todayszaman.com/business_...rime-ministry-building_354381.html

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan hangi uçağı kullanacak?
http://www.haberturk.com/yasam/haber...ani-erdogan-hangi-ucagi-kullanacak


For the ESB hangars, I'm sure TK Technic will be happy to buy them..  
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 122):
And no Air Serbia is not done in Turkey. They are in talks about other opportunities. Matter of fact, just yesterday !

So probably they are after AYT or BJV , perhaps a second frequency to Istanbul. Unfortunately they have nothing to offer in return.

I remember the days back in 1990s when Sabena put a lot of pressure via ministry of foreign affairs to get flight rights to a second airport in Turkey. Turkish foreign affairs offered them VAN. Belgians had difficulty to understand what VAN is and shocked when they found out where it is. We laughed about it for weeks after.

 
The future is in the skies.
 
JU068
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:42 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 124):

Because the market between Serbia and Turkey is not liberalised but it was originally subject to the ASA signed in 1953. A few months ago a new one was signed but the content did not change much. In other words, according to the agreement both Serbian and Turkish carriers must operate an equal number of frequencies between the two countries. Even to this day this agreement is not respected because Turkish carriers operate a total of 19 weekly frequencies while Air Serbia operates mere 7. Serbian consumers/travellers are not at a loss here. If anything they are at a gain because there are currently more frequencies than they are allowed by the ASA.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 126):

I am sure it did not leave a bad impression for Air Serbia travellers who were forced to fly into SAW. Aviation is a business, not a beauty pageant, so who cares if a few people are left with a bad impression- as long as the airline doesn't lose the competitive edge. As for the management, just because they are negotiating doesn't mean that are going to add frequencies/destinations, they could be testing the waters. Anyway, if Air Serbia eventually does expand into Turkey, it will be because of an order from Abu Dhabi, not Belgrade. Huge difference.
 
JU068
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Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:03 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 129):
So probably they are after AYT or BJV , perhaps a second frequency to Istanbul. Unfortunately they have nothing to offer in return.

They also have nothing to use to fly these routes. They are short on aircraft as they currently operate a fleet of 7 A319 and 2 A320 (plus 5 B733 and 5 Atr). Not to mention that some of the birds will have to undergo regular maintenance checks which will further complicate scheduling.
Of course, I hope I am wrong but there is no mention of a Turkish expansion and from what I heard, IST is still performing poorly.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation August 2014

Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:42 pm

Please continue here:
Turkish Aviation September 2014 (by TK787 Aug 31 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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