Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:18 am

Beginning late fall, CAE, LSE and XNA will go seasonal; interestingly, XNA will still be served daily from CVG. FSD however will continue its seasonal resumption after a multi-year absence.

CUN gets bumped up to an earlier start, which is somewhat surprising given the market's saturation (heck, it's one of the few markets DL cut capacity from ATL) and expected trend in fares.

Also of interest, the early morning departure to MCO will be upgauged to the 763 -- the first regularly-scheduled widebody service into Orlando from DTW in nearly 15 years, and the first regularly-scheduled Delta widebody service into MCO in nearly 10. There's no feed besides what's left of the West Coast redeyes, so it'll be nearly exclusively local traffic...

[Edited 2014-07-31 20:21:23]
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1124
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:45 am

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
interestingly, XNA will still be served daily from CVG

Consider that the Walmart-P&G Express.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
Beginning late fall, CAE, LSE and XNA will go seasonal; interestingly, XNA will still be served daily from CVG. FSD however will continue its seasonal resumption after a multi-year absence.
Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
Also of interest, the early morning departure to MCO will be upgauged to the 763 -- the first regularly-scheduled widebody service into Orlando from DTW in nearly 15 years, and the first regularly-scheduled Delta widebody service into MCO in nearly 10. There's no feed besides what's left of the West Coast redeyes, so it'll be nearly exclusively local traffic...

Probably since the DC-10-40 days.

There is a little feed - beside the west coast red-eyes, there are some very early departures from other Michigan airports - GRR, AZO, MBS, LAN that arrive into DTW before 7:00am that connect to the first departure bank of the morning.

(This is important to me as I consider a move over to the GRR area and how it might impact my travel ability)
 
panam330
Posts: 2187
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:09 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
Also of interest, the early morning departure to MCO will be upgauged to the 763 -- the first regularly-scheduled widebody service into Orlando from DTW in nearly 15 years, and the first regularly-scheduled Delta widebody service into MCO in nearly 10.

Weren't there some scheduled 763s on MSP-MCO lately? I'm certain ATL has also had some schedule holiday wide bodies in the past decade as well. I think the last one I took was a scheduled 777 in 2006 (my first 777 ride, in fact).
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:48 pm

Ok, had some time to look at the schedule more this morning and some stuff of interest:
(Some were previously loaded, others are in the electronic timetable that pushed out yesterday and will upload this weekend):

International:
NRT goes from 777 to 744 starting Oct 28th
PEK goes from 777 to A332 starting Oct 28th
PVG goes from 777 to 744 starting Oct 28th
NGO goes to 5x weekly, loses tag on NGO-MNL and becomes A332
ICN unchanged

AMS will see 333, 764, 77L in November (when it typically goes from 4x to 3x seasonally)
LHR goes back to 1x daily 764 effective in November

MTY operates with an A319 on Mondays, rest of the week is E75 (this already happens now, have never noticed before)
CUN only operates on Saturdays in Sept and then 2 weekly flights only on Saturdays in Oct, the goes daily & 2x on Saturdays in November

Domestic:
SEA is seeing more capacity and frequency this fall compared to 2013 due to the hub build-up and AS launching DTW-SEA: In 2013 - DL operated 4x/day in Sept & Oct, and then some days in Nov dropped back to 3x
This year is 5x per day:
Sept: 738, 738, 738, 757, 763
Oct: 739, 738, 757, 739, 757
Nov: 738, 738, 738, 738, 738

ATL - starting in October they standardize every DTW-ATL flight time at 2 hours. Right now they will vary anywhere from 1:55 to 2:03. ATL-DTW flight time are standardized at 2:05 (except the 7:30am flight is 1:49)

MHT - seeing more 2-class RJs, as CR7s replace 2-3 of the 50 seaters

FWA - (this will delight someone on here) gets a CR7 turn, replacing a CRJ in November. (FWA is getting a CR9 turn from ATL in August & September)

YYZ - More 2 class RJs, less CRJs, gets some E75s on the route in November

TVC - continues to see a mainline RON into the fall, after getting mostly 717s all summer, has a 717 or A319 RON in November

I'm sure there is more but thats what I've seen so far.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:04 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 2):
There is a little feed - beside the west coast red-eyes, there are some very early departures from other Michigan airports - GRR, AZO, MBS, LAN that arrive into DTW before 7:00am that connect to the first departure bank of the morning.

Does LAN still have the like 5:45 or 5:55 Departure? That a bit early, but it would make sense to feed into the early morning bank.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
FSDan
Posts: 3393
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:12 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
the first regularly-scheduled Delta widebody service into MCO in nearly 10

As was stated by another poster, DL flew MSP-MCO (and MSP-RSW) with the 763 last Feb/March. And they do still put the 763 on ATL-MCO occasionally, although it's inconsistent.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting jetblueguy2006 (Reply 5):
Does LAN still have the like 5:45 or 5:55 Departure? That a bit early, but it would make sense to feed into the early morning bank.

Here are DL's early morning arrivals into DTW:

Red-eye flights:
SEA 763 0627
PDX 739 0623
SFO 757 0628
LAX 763 0625
SAN 739 0659
LAS 757 0612
PHX 738 0649

Short/Regional:
GRR CR9 0640
LAN CRJ 0645
AZO CRJ 0655
MBS CRJ 0647
FWA CRJ 0654
ERI CRJ 0655
BUF 319 0706*
GRU 763 0705*

The flights that arrive before 7am can connect to the first departure bank which starts around 7:30am. BUF can make a few of the later flights that are still above the minimum connect time. GRU connects to the 2nd bank that departs around 8:30am-9am.
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:41 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 7):

Thanks for the info. I am on the road and can't easily look that stuff up.
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10410
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Thread starter):
Beginning late fall, CAE, LSE and XNA will go seasonal; interestingly, XNA will still be served daily from CVG. FSD however will continue its seasonal resumption after a multi-year absence.

LSE was seasonal the prior season as well. CAE and XNA are not showing ended in OAG as of now. This weekend's load?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
LSE was seasonal the prior season as well. CAE and XNA are not showing ended in OAG as of now. This weekend's load?

Yeah, will be loaded this weekend.

CAE ends Sept 30th. This used to be an afternoon turn, then earlier this year the moved it an evening RON/morning return.

XNA ends Sept 30th

LSE is 5x weekly, ends Oct 31st (this one has always been on-again/off again seasonal.



DLH, ROA, CRW all now are not operated during January & Feb, as was the case last year too.

SAV is not operating post-holiday January & February (can't remember if this operated last winter)
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 10):
DLH, ROA, CRW all now are not operated during January & Feb, as was the case last year too.

Do you show CRW coming back in March or April? We got pushed to April last year. Amazing that NW used to run this 3x-5x with the saabs.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 10):
CAE ends Sept 30th. This used to be an afternoon turn, then earlier this year the moved it an evening RON/morning return.

XNA ends Sept 30th

These two surprised me... but make me feel less bad about our newfound seasonality to DTW.
 
bchandl
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:37 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 1):
Consider that the Walmart-P&G Express.

Haha. Yep I thought it was weird DTW loses it and CVG didn't but you're entirely right.

Without that business tie XNA would have been gone from CVG 5 years ago. Same with CDG.

bchandl
 
dtwpilot225
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:44 pm

Endeavor is supposed to be down to 70ish 200's by the end of the year and Chautauqua is parking their 41 145s as well so that is roughly 60 50 seat airplanes that will not be here in December. Delta is adding the 717s and Endeavor will be up to 81 900s by Q1 15. Im interested to see what they do with cities like pln, esc, ciu, mqt. mqt could support a 900 but im not sure the others. Also places like atw, cwa, bgm,bmi,cmi,mli,pia. It bet the keep them all just on lower frequency.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:51 pm

DL's also made significant changes to planned capacity into LAX and SFO. LAX isn't too far off 2013 levels, but SFO gets a solid boost. Amazingly, LAX & SFO will offer the same number of seats -- the first time I can ever recall SFO being tied with LAX. Nearly twice as many people travel between DTW/LAX than they do DTW/SFO.

Los Angeles
2013 (actual)
2x739, 3x763

2014 (planned)
738, 739, 2x757, 763

---------------------------

San Francisco
2013 (actual)
320, 3x738, 763

2014 (planned)
738, 2x739, 757, 763
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 13):
Endeavor is supposed to be down to 70ish 200's by the end of the year and Chautauqua is parking their 41 145s as well so that is roughly 60 50 seat airplanes that will not be here in December. Delta is adding the 717s and Endeavor will be up to 81 900s by Q1 15. Im interested to see what they do with cities like pln, esc, ciu, mqt. mqt could support a 900 but im not sure the others. Also places like atw, cwa, bgm,bmi,cmi,mli,pia. It bet the keep them all just on lower frequency.

DL's reluctant to put even the CR7 on DTW/BHM. A pet peeve of mine, since it's a route I frequent -- there's a fair amount of local traffic at strong fare levels, and the rare moment they have scheduled the CR7 (or CR9) onto the route, more than half the plane was listed as standing by for Fist Class. They do plan on upgauging one flight this fall, but I think they're being a tease.

About 40% of DTW's movements are planned on 50-seaters in November.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:53 pm

CVG-XNA stays for the same reasons that DL flies DTW-MTY

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 13):
Im interested to see what they do with cities like pln, esc, ciu, mqt. mqt could support a 900 but im not sure the others. Also places like atw, cwa, bgm,bmi,cmi,mli,pia. It bet the keep them all just on lower frequency.

Those markets are are all likely to stay on what's left of the CRJ-200s. A number are EAS - PLN, ESC, CIU.

The CRJ-200s are literally vaporizing out of ATL, backfilled with the 717s and 2-class RJs.
For now the smallest markets are still going to stay on the remaining CRJs, and DTW has many low-frequency small markets.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 15):
DL's reluctant to put even the CR7 on DTW/BHM. A pet peeve of mine, since it's a route I frequent -- there's a fair amount of local traffic at strong fare levels, and the rare moment they have scheduled the CR7 (or CR9) onto the route,

The evening RON does finally become a 2-class RJ from Sept onward.

NW used to run this route with DC-9s.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 15):
About 40% of DTW's movements are planned on 50-seaters in November.

That is actually down from when it used to be above 50-55% as recently as 2012/2013.
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10410
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:57 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 10):
SAV is not operating post-holiday January & February (can't remember if this operated last winter)

It's the same
 
SouthernDC9
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:41 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 12):
Haha. Yep I thought it was weird DTW loses it and CVG didn't but you're entirely right.

Without that business tie XNA would have been gone from CVG 5 years ago. Same with CDG.

bchandl

I absolutely, positively adore the CVG-XNA service because it offers a perfect connection from/to DCA... I can leave here at 6:30, be in XNA at 10:30... on the return, leave XNA at 4:30, get into DCA at 10pm - all without the hassle of ATL (which I do still love, though, sort of, in theory)... And I can grab Chick-fil-A coming and going (fortunately, I've never done this trip on a Sunday).
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
duckbilled
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:53 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:45 pm

What are the Saturday nonstops DTW-CUN, CUN-DTW? I am booked on 713 on 10/18 and 714 10/25. It was booked by another person so it doesn't show up in "my flights".
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:24 am

Fall peak-day departures @ DTW through the years:

2014:
468 (173 mainline) totaling 46,500 seats; 192 50-seaters

2013:
503 (160 mainline) totaling 46,500 seats; 251 50-seaters

2008 - NW's final year as a truly independent carrier (does not include DL's DTW operations)
474 (208 mainline) totaling 43,500 seats

Quoting duckbilled (Reply 19):
What are the Saturday nonstops DTW-CUN, CUN-DTW? I am booked on 713 on 10/18 and 714 10/25. It was booked by another person so it doesn't show up in "my flights".

320
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
bchandl
Posts: 646
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 18):
I absolutely, positively adore the CVG-XNA service because it offers a perfect connection from/to DCA... I can leave here at 6:30, be in XNA at 10:30... on the return, leave XNA at 4:30, get into DCA at 10pm - all without the hassle of ATL (which I do still love, though, sort of, in theory)... And I can grab Chick-fil-A coming and going (fortunately, I've never done this trip on a Sunday).

[In Steve Irwin's voice]

And here we have one of the most rare creatures in the world... 5 years ago there were millions but today we only have one left in existence. I heard rumors this animal still existed in Cincinnati, but is rarely spotted. They've become a local urban legend.

This rare beast, called a "CVG connection passenger" is rarely seen in it's natural habitat. Many have been moved to zoos in Detroit and Atlanta. She's a beaut!

We have found one in it's natural habit, time to wrangle with this rare animal!

bchandl
 
User avatar
KGRB
Posts: 736
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 13):
Also places like atw, cwa, bgm,bmi,cmi,mli,pia.

About half of ATW's flights are on CRJ-700 or larger. Out of the 10 flights Delta had today, there were four CRJ-900 departures (Two to ATL and two to MSP) and one CRJ-700 to DTW. The remaining flights were on CRJ-200s. Beginning on August 20, one of the ATL flights will go to a 717 every day. ATW has been a strong market for both PMDL and PMNW and I would not discount the ability for ATW to sustain service on "large" RJs and "small" mainline.
First flight: NW DC-10 MKE-MSP December 1996
Most recent flight: DL/9E CRJ-900 LGA-MSN January 2020
 
quiet1
Posts: 324
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:39 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:33 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 16):
The CRJ-200s are literally vaporizing out of ATL...

Love to see a video of that!   
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:44 pm

A couple of other notes about fall service:

- DTW-EWR will go all-717; this route hasn't been all mainline since the merger closed;

- With the systemwide changes accommodating the phase out of select 744, there will be no scheduled 777 service at DTW this fall.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
kenanc
Posts: 185
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:36 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 21):
[In Steve Irwin's voice]

And here we have one of the most rare creatures in the world... 5 years ago there were millions but today we only have one left in existence. I heard rumors this animal still existed in Cincinnati, but is rarely spotted. They've become a local urban legend.

This rare beast, called a "CVG connection passenger" is rarely seen in it's natural habitat. Many have been moved to zoos in Detroit and Atlanta. She's a beaut!

We have found one in it's natural habit, time to wrangle with this rare animal!

bchandl

I feel as if it's always YOU who cracks the good jokes. 
 
as739x
Posts: 5244
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:12 pm

Quoting bchandl (Reply 21):

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 18):
I absolutely, positively adore the CVG-XNA service because it offers a perfect connection from/to DCA... I can leave here at 6:30, be in XNA at 10:30... on the return, leave XNA at 4:30, get into DCA at 10pm - all without the hassle of ATL (which I do still love, though, sort of, in theory)... And I can grab Chick-fil-A coming and going (fortunately, I've never done this trip on a Sunday).

[In Steve Irwin's voice]

And here we have one of the most rare creatures in the world... 5 years ago there were millions but today we only have one left in existence. I heard rumors this animal still existed in Cincinnati, but is rarely spotted. They've become a local urban legend.

This rare beast, called a "CVG connection passenger" is rarely seen in it's natural habitat. Many have been moved to zoos in Detroit and Atlanta. She's a beaut!

We have found one in it's natural habit, time to wrangle with this rare animal!


Excellent my friend, excellent
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
teneriffe77
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:00 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:07 am

Why is it they are keeping so many 50 seat RJs at DTW while withdrawing them like mad from ATL?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:21 am

DTW has a much larger number of small and mid-sized markets that 3-5 flights/day on 50 seat RJs and are of less than 500 miles.

ATL is so much larger they can better optimize on slightly lower frequency with increased gauge. ATL is so much larger it it can absorb the increase capacity. DTW is less than half the size of ATL.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1614
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:51 pm

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 13):
Chautauqua is parking their 41 145s as well so that is roughly 60 50 seat airplanes that will not be here in December.

The 145s are on contract until 2016 and as of now, CHQ plans to finish out the contract, so those airplanes won't be leaving this year or next.
Good goes around!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:18 pm

More updates:

Starting in October, there a 739 is on one the morning LGA-DTW flights. This is the largest aircraft DL has used on the route post-merger. NW used to routinely fly 757s on DTW-LGA.

Sunday 10/26 an A330-300 is being used on the 8pm DTW-LAX flight, and the red-eye return instead of a 763

DL is upgauging flights into SBN on Notre Dame homeball weeks, typical of what they do most years:
Weekend of 9/6 - M88, 717, CR9
Weekend of 10/5 - M90, CR7, CR7
Weekend of 10/11 - M90, CR7
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:25 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 30):
Sunday 10/26 an A330-300 is being used on the 8pm DTW-LAX flight, and the red-eye return instead of a 763

For some reason, DTW/LAX has historically seen unique equipment for the route during October. 332, 333, 76W, 764 and 777 have regularly operated the route; this year, the 333 makes only a cameo appearance but a BE-configured 757 regularly operates on the route.

It's also disappointing that DL continues to squeeze capacity on DTW/LAX. It's absolutely amazing that on some days this fall DL will offer nearly 75% of the capacity on MSY/LAX that they do on DTW/LAX -> even more amazing is that MSY/LAX will see more overall capacity than DTW/LAX (including all airlines operating each route), despite the fact that nearly twice as many people travel between DTW/LAX during this time period, and the fact that DL operates a large hub there. It'll be interesting to see average DTW/LAX fares when they're published for the time frame after DL began cutting capacity -- my bet is a steep increase. Hopefully UA or AA will take notice.

[Edited 2014-08-15 14:27:15]
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:43 pm

Service to CRW and ROA is being permanently discontinued; DL has chosen to upgauge both markets from ATL.

Several of the markets noted above -- including CAE and XNA -- have also changed to permanent discontinuations.

----

DL also attempted to switch DTW-MSY from mainline to E75 while increasing service on ATL-MSY. After NK announced DTW-MSY, DL opted to keep mainline, upgauging both flights to 320; however, the E75 will serve the route much of October (before NK service begins).

DL tried this earlier when they whacked nearly 60% of the YOY seats from DTW-MCO in September. All airlines, including DL, reduce service to Florida in September, traditionally a weak month into the market. This year DL had the brilliant idea of containing all the reductions from DTW, and in fact planned YOY increases from ATL. NK responded by adding a second daily DTW-MCO flight in September; not only is it rare for airlines to increase service in September, it's equally rare for NK to add late service in a published market. Unsurprisingly, DL responded by restoring much of its service.

Competition is good!!

[Edited 2014-08-24 05:53:14]
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2617
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 32):
Service to CRW and ROA is being permanently discontinued; DL has chosen to upgauge both markets from ATL.

Several of the markets noted above -- including CAE and XNA -- have also changed to permanent discontinuations.

Nothing like losing service in good company (CAE and XNA). Hard to believe they can't even keep one flight per day.. just for the international feed if nothing else. That said, death by a thousand cuts isn't just a saying; It really happens.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 9212
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:20 pm

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 31):
It's also disappointing that DL continues to squeeze capacity on DTW/LAX.

Spirit has $235 r/t non-stops in the market. UA and AA aren't going to touch that.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 34):
Spirit has $235 r/t non-stops in the market. UA and AA aren't going to touch that.

Their lowest fare & it's midweek, off-peak travel, requiring a redeye return. And few of us would be able to travel without at least a carry on ($70 at the time of booking) or advanced seat assignment ($22 minimum at the time of booking) since there's a high probability of a middle seat without one.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:03 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
PEK goes from 777 to A332 starting Oct 28th
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 4):
NGO goes to 5x weekly, loses tag on NGO-MNL and becomes A332

The A332 is becoming almost all trans-Pacific...  
 
DeltaXNA
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:52 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:38 am

Quoting kcrwflyer (Reply 33):
Several of the markets noted above -- including CAE and XNA -- have also changed to permanent discontinuations.

It's really going away permanently and not seasonally? No one has mentioned this at all at work. I'm usually the one telling people the news.
 
fjnovak1
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2000 2:23 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:37 pm

I remember XNA-DTW at 2x daily when DL first merged with NW. They've really given XNA a whack.
Go Blue!!
 
razorbackfan
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:36 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:55 pm

Quoting fjnovak1 (Reply 38):

Delta has really put it to XNA, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless you want to travel to the SE or connect through ATL to Europe...Delta pretty much pushed a lot of customers to AA. They used to have SLC, MEM, 2 daily DTW, 3 daily CVG and I believe 2 or 3 daily MSP....now granted they have added a lot capacity to ATL, but definitely not the best option most of the time when you can connect through DFW, or ORD.
 
dtwpilot225
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:31 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:15 pm

Can anyone think of any city that might receive new service from Dtw on delta? I can't think of any.
 
jb1087xna
Posts: 527
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting razorbackfan (Reply 39):

LIT is a similar story. Have to fly east for 1.5-2.5 hours just to go west. It was fine when MEM was still an option as that was a quick hop.
I have a trip to SEA this weekend and the return was originally routed through MSP. The MSP-XNA leg was cancelled several weeks ago and so now I have to go through ATL both ways. That definitely added some hours to the trip.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1765
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:45 am

slowly, little by little, DL is turning DTW into an RJ hub ala CVG. It's a matter of time before DL pulls the plug on DTW hub status, IMO.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:22 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 42):
slowly, little by little, DL is turning DTW into an RJ hub ala CVG. It's a matter of time before DL pulls the plug on DTW hub status, IMO.

Seriously? Is that supposed to be a joke or a serious statement.

DTW has not dramatically changed much post-merger. The biggest changes have been the retirement of the DC-9s which led to more 2-class and 50 seat RJs, something that was already well underway by 2008. Secondly was smaller markets that were dropped with the retirement of the SF3s.

In fact , the tide has started to turn where as recent as summer 2012 & 2013, 50 seat RJs made up well over 50% of the departures at DTW. Now, its is down closer to 40% with more 2-class RJs and 717s making there way into the fleet.

Everyone makes a big deal with a few routes lose service, but doesn't see all of the capacity additions into other markets.
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 42):

A little dramatic IMHO...
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
User avatar
rmoore7734
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:59 pm

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 42):

slowly, little by little, DL is turning DTW into an RJ hub ala CVG. It's a matter of time before DL pulls the plug on DTW hub status, IMO.

how much did NW/DL spend on building the McNamara Terminal ?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8629
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:37 am

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 40):
Can anyone think of any city that might receive new service from Dtw on delta? I can't think of any.

Not really. Some of these routes that were cut where DTW was the secondary hub and DL still has a large prescence to another primary hub may come back at some point in time. Some of these routes periodically come and go as planners want to add additional peak period capacity.

DTW-DLH has always been periodically on-again/off-again and seasonal. CRW, ROA, LIT could always come back at some point in time.

I don't see many markets being added primarily due to the larger trends going on in the industry and the overall economic climate in the country.

- Retirement of 50-seat RJs
- Deteriorating economics of air service in small communities
- Hyper-urbanization and migration to the coasts
- Aging baby boomers and the graying of the Midwest
- The fact that more people are willing to drive up to 3 hours to catch a flight and avoid connections
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:01 am

Quoting rmoore7734 (Reply 45):
how much did NW/DL spend on building the McNamara Terminal ?


Absolutely nothing ($0). This is one of a.net's biggest myths; the terminal was built and is owned by Wayne County (MI). In contrast, DL owns most of Terminal 3 at CVG as well as Concourse G at MSP. DL's still making debt payments on the shuttered Concourse C at CVG; it tried but was unable to divest this responsibility in bankruptcy...

[Edited 2014-08-25 20:12:02]
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
mplsjefe
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:30 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:23 am

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 47):
The terminal was built and is owned by Wayne County. In contrast, DL owns most of its facilities in CVG and a portion of the terminal at MSP.

The MAC owns MSP:


per http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMSP
Airport Ownership and Management from official FAA records
Ownership: Publicly-owned
Owner: METRO ARPT CMSN
6040 28 TH AV SO
MINNEAPOLIS, MN 55450
Phone 612-726-8100


DL does, at times, pay for gate updates, amenities, etc. but I have never heard of them "owning" any of the terminal(s) here at MSP. I think they have some exclusive rights or the ability to influence what shops, etc can be where in Terminal 1 (especially in all but the E concourse) but I am fairly certain DL doesn't "own" any part of either of the terminals.


mplsjefe
 
User avatar
compensateme
Topic Author
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

RE: Fall DL Service Changes @ DTW

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:58 am

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 48):
The MAC owns MSP:

Let's re-phase this: in exchange for financial considerations toward construction at MSP, NW received an exclusive lease at MSP, much like DL did at CVG. NW paid cash, DL issued bonds; DL's still on the hook for the bonds related to CVG. The exclusive leases come with similar rights to ownership.

In contrast, NW did not provide financial considerations toward the construction at DTW, although they did manage the project.

[Edited 2014-08-25 21:00:53]
We don’t care what your next flight is.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 32andBelow, 747classic, AngMoh, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], BoeingGuy, diatraveler, FB330, FluidFlow, goldcrest, HowardDGA, MavyWavyATR, Navion, Noshow, notaxonrotax, qf789, SASViking, Wallsendmag, YMHBSpotting and 158 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos