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bjorn14
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Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:51 pm

With demise of Dominicana almost 20 years why has the Dom. Rep. struggled to have its own flag carrier? I know there have been attempts in the past with Air Dominicana, Air Europa, etc. but all have been still born. A country of almost 10 million and probably the biggest tourist traffic in the Caribbean. Thoughts?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
prosa
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:09 am

AA and B6 provide such extensive service there probably isn't much of a practical need for a flag carrier.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
flyby519
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:09 am

They should just name JetBlue the flag carrier of the DR   B6 must be one of the top carriers for traffic to/from the country, right?
 
bjorn14
Topic Author
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:37 am

I believe B6 is the largest operator at SDQ and STI.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:54 am

"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa

 
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
bchandl
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:06 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 4):

Nukes, Airplanes and Beer?

You had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
 
prosa
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:12 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 4):
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer." - Frank Zappa

Well, the Dominican Republic may no longer have a flag carrier, but it does have Presidente Beer.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
Chisky16
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:10 am

Better question, Why doesn't the USA have an official flag carrier?
Using common knowledge to save the day!
 
Thomas_Jaeger
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 am

PAWA Dominicana is planning to launch again this fall.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:25 am

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 7):
Better question, Why doesn't the USA have an official flag carrier?

Please define flag carrier as it applies to the USA or the Dominican Republic.

[Edited 2014-08-05 04:26:48]
 
brilondon
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:41 pm

First you need to define what a "Flag Carrier" and then you have to ask whether they need one.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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tlecam
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:50 pm

My observation is that expressing personal political beliefs or opinions rarely (ever?) results in anything positive on this site. Editorializing is best done elsewhere.

Having said that, I use flag carrier very loosely - simply to mean the home country where an airline is registered. In the US, it could be DL, AA, UA, B6, Southwest, Vx, AS etc.., although since I am usually using the term when discussing mid to long haul international flights, I usually use the term to refer to DL, AA, UA.

The same is true for other countries; I'd consider both VA and BA to be flag carriers, along with AirBerlin and LH etc...

That's my own personal lexicon. I don't think there is a standard definition.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
YLWbased
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:25 pm

de facto flag carrier and flag carriers are 2 totally different things, please don't mix them up.

A country can have multiple flag carriers, for example the Philippines, both PR and 5J are flag carriers.
a "de facto flag carrier" however is an airline that enjoys preferential rights and privileges given by the government and sometimes even printed in legal text.

YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:15 pm

Besides the US, what are the biggest markets from the Dominican Republic?
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DashTrash
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:15 pm

The Dominican may not have an airline, but they definitely have their own beer. Gotta have a Presidente when overnighting in the islands. Any island.
 
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yowza
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:03 pm

Personally I think this is a great thing. Too many countries have pissed away millions (and in some cases billions) of dollars for the sheer vanity of wanting a flag carrier seen in major cities around the world. More countries should follow suit.

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 7):
Better question, Why doesn't the USA have an official flag carrier?

Not everything is about 'murica.  

Signed,
The rest of the world

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 17):
what are the biggest markets from the Dominican Republic

I can't seem to find any stats but I think Canada has got to be up there. AC, WS, TS, and WG all serve between 3-5 destinations each.

YOWza
 
capitol8s
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:32 pm

I remember my days at Capitol International Airways back in the late 70's-early 80's when we operated a Domincana wet-lease on the DC-10 back and forth between JFK and SDQ along with our scheduled DC-8 service JFK-SDQ-BQN-SJU-JFK service. I also remember Dominicana Airways operating a couple 727's and 1 Boeing 707 as well.

[Edited 2014-08-05 12:33:47]
"Happiness is a flight on a Capitol Air DC-10"
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:35 pm

Speaking of flag carriers, are CZ and MU considered flag carriers too, or is that title exclusive to CA ?
 
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einsteinboricua
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:38 pm

I think the main problem with the Dominican Republic not having its own flag carrier is that it's not so much Dominicans going abroad or traveling within as much as tourists from all over going TO the country. Essentially the airline would exist to bring people to the country, not help Dominicans move about. Why would the government want to invest in something that would benefit outsiders more?

Besides, it looks like B6 and AA so more than enough to bring tourists to the country so a new Dominican airline would be at a serious disadvantage. PAWA Dominicana, Fina Air, among others, are examples of airlines that tried to establish themselves and failed.

A successful Dominican airline would have to pull an EK: establish a product (tourism being the most notable) and market that product aggressively. With good funding, it IS possible.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
stxbohn
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 18):
The Dominican may not have an airline, but they definitely have their own beer. Gotta have a Presidente when overnighting in the islands. Any island.

Absolutely - Presidente (and Presidente Light now) is some of the best island beer out there. Haven't had the Heineken Pilsner on St. Maarten though - I hear it's much better than the regular greenies.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:55 pm

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 7):
Better question, Why doesn't the USA have an official flag carrier?

All U.S. airlines that operate international routes are flag carriers. The term is now obsolete.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 19):
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 17):
what are the biggest markets from the Dominican Republic

I can't seem to find any stats but I think Canada has got to be up there. AC, WS, TS, and WG all serve between 3-5 destinations each.

The question was "from" the Dominican Republic. Almost all Canada-Dominican Republic travel is Canada-originating.

According to Canadian government statistics for 2012 (don't have 2013 numbers), the Dominican Republic was the 5th largest foreign destination for Canadian residents based on the number of visits, after the U.S., Mexico, Cuba and UK.

Based on number of nights spent and the amount spent in the country in question the Dominican Republic was 6th, after the U.S., Mexico, UK, Cuba and France.

Based on the number of Canadians visiting the country, following were the top 15 destinations in 2012. I doubt there was much change for 2013.

1. U.S.
2. Mexico
3. Cuba
4. United Kingdom
5. Dominican Republic
6. France
7. Italy
8. Germany
9. China (mainland)
10. Spain
11. Jamaica
12. Netherlands
13. Hong Kong
14, Ireland
15. Australia

Statistics show China (mainland) and Hong Kong separately. If combined, China in total would be #7 after France.

[Edited 2014-08-05 14:22:07]
 
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yowza
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:55 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
The question was "from" the Dominican Republic. Almost all Canada-Dominican Republic travel is Canada-originating.

My mistake, I missed that. Is that something carriers really at though? Isn't raw PDEW the key figure? I don't know - I'm just asking.

YOWza
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting yowza (Reply 26):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
The question was "from" the Dominican Republic. Almost all Canada-Dominican Republic travel is Canada-originating.

My mistake, I missed that. Is that something carriers really at though? Isn't raw PDEW the key figure? I don't know - I'm just asking.

I think the point is that a new carrier based in the Dominican Republic would find it very difficult and expensive to establish themselves in the Canadian market where almost all the passengers originate and where there are already several carriers with much deeper pockets and long experience serving the market.

A high percentage of passengers from Canada to those sun destinations are booking packages including hotel accommodation through travel agents where the airline seat is only part of the package. Many tour wholesalers would probably also be reluctant to deal with a brand new and no doubt very small carrier from the Dominican Republic due to concerns about reliability, delays, cancellations etc.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Tue Aug 05, 2014 10:37 pm

I think Samoa is an interesting case in point for this Flag Carrier question, and as it may pertain to The Dominican Republic.

In 2004 The Government of Samoa mooted the partial sale of its flag-carrier Polynesian Airlines. Samoa realised the airline was not of significant enough size to bring about any critical mass so as to achieve any cost efficiencies; they also recognised however that they needed to invest in assuring tourists could always get to Samoa and that they couldn't rely on foreign carriers to do this when other island destinations were competing for their feed.

Samoa's Govt then asked for expressions of interest from Virgin Blue Holdings (now Virgin Australia), the Qantas Group and Air New Zealand. Virgin came back with the most compelling offer and the resultant entity (now known as Virgin Samoa) is owned 49% by Virgin Australia, 49% by Govt. of Samoa and 2% by local hotel group Aggie Grey's (which owns the inflight catering service in Samoa); it came into operation in 31 October 2005.

Essentially the Samoa shareholders own a smaller shareholding in Virgin Australia; no actual aircraft or other hard or soft product is owned by Virgin Samoa, although there is a 738 with a distinct Virgin Samoa livery, and the crew to and from Samoa are discrete to Virgin Samoa, plus have their own uniforms. The Virgin Samoa painted bird rotates throughout the fleet. Virgin Samoa has direct non-stop flights from Apia APW to AKL, BNE and SYD. The JV has been extraordinarily successful for Samoa and Virgin as it provides guaranteed links to Australia and New Zealand, while allowing them to ride out nature's fury (when a cyclone, tsunami or quake hits Samoa, capacity can be offloaded to Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands or absorbed into Australian domestic).

Anyhow, to avoid having to invest in the infrastructure of an airline and the necessary crew etc, perhaps the Dominican Republic could start a JV with Virgin America or JetBlue.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
DesertAir
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:20 pm

It is interesting to note that most of the Central American countries do not have a flag carrier. The TACA group and now Avianca provides service to and from. The small countries discovered it was too costly to run their own independent airlines. By banding together they could lower their costs and provide a more effecient and professional product. The only excepción is Panamá that has the powerful COPA.
If Haiti and the Dominican Republic could work together (long shot) they could have formed an airline to serve both countries to certain North American and Carribean markets.

Former national carriers:
Guatemala: Aviateca
Honduras: Sasha
El SAlvador: TACA
Nicaragua: I don´t recall the name.
Costa Rica: LACSA
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: Why No Flag Carrier For The Dominican Republic?

Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:43 am

Quoting DesertAir (Reply 25):
Honduras: Sasha
El SAlvador: TACA
Nicaragua: I don´t recall the name.

SAHSA: Servicio Aéreo de Honduras S.A. No longer in service since 1994.
Nicaragua: Lanica, Aeronica, Nica. Only Nica was forming part of GRUPO TACA.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

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