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SelseyBill
Topic Author
Posts: 713
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BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:33 pm

According to 'Airport Coordination Ltd' summer 14 slot statement, BA has an allocation of 4893 weekly slots @ LHR. IB has 112, AA = 196, US = 28 and VY = 28.

How can this slot allocation be an odd number ? How can you have a plane take off, and not land ? Do "non-scheduled' movements like LHR-LGW/ CWL positioning flights have to be made from these allocated slots, or are they discounted for the purposes of slot allocation ?

All feedback welcome gentlemen.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
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RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:22 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Thread starter):
How can this slot allocation be an odd number ?

I thought an airline only had to operate a slot 80% of the time under the "use it or lose it" rule at Heathrow. Slots are valuable, but if BA has earned an odd one via whatever means, it doesn't have to fully utilize it every week.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Andy33
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Thread starter):
Do "non-scheduled' movements like LHR-LGW/ CWL positioning flights have to be made from these allocated slots, or are they discounted for the purposes of slot allocation ?

According to the ACL website, these flights can be dealt with separately from passenger service slots under rules for ad-hoc flights.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:16 pm

So what is next for BA? PDX, SJC, SLC, MSY?
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:25 pm

The question of the ownership of an odd number of weekly slots at LHR has always baffled me. All I can tell you is where that odd BA slot came from. Immediately in front of the purchase of BD by BA BD (at start of Summer Season 2012) had 461 weekly LHR slots.

Since there are an even number of total slots some other airline has to have an odd number of slots. Back then it was BCS who operate freighter flights primarily for BA. They had 27 weekly slots. This summer BCS still have 27 weekly LHR slots. So I guess - no more - that they use a BA slot to make up a slot pair much as DL uses AF and KL slots as well as its own.

But that leaves the question of why the odd slot came from BD. Could it be that as BD and BCS were both based at EMA and that BCS used one of their slots?
 
SelseyBill
Topic Author
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RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 4):
The question of the ownership of an odd number of weekly slots at LHR has always baffled me. All I can tell you is where that odd BA slot came from. Immediately in front of the purchase of BD by BA BD (at start of Summer Season 2012) had 461 weekly LHR slots.

Since there are an even number of total slots some other airline has to have an odd number of slots. Back then it was BCS who operate freighter flights primarily for BA. They had 27 weekly slots. This summer BCS still have 27 weekly LHR slots. So I guess - no more - that they use a BA slot to make up a slot pair much as DL uses AF and KL slots as well as its own.

But that leaves the question of why the odd slot came from BD. Could it be that as BD and BCS were both based at EMA and that BCS used one of their slots?

Thanks for that VV701.

My wife doesn't say much, so when she does its usually worth listening to; and she may have come up with the answer.

4893 slots per week = 9786 per fortnight. Maybe one slot pair is a Sunday departure with a balancing Monday arrival, which would be split across 2 weeks to give an odd-number in each week.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:19 am

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 5):
4893 slots per week = 9786 per fortnight. Maybe one slot pair is a Sunday departure with a balancing Monday arrival, which would be split across 2 weeks to give an odd-number in each week

Great (?) minds think alike. I went down that route some time ago. But I eventually decided it was unlikely. But who knows?

This is also a bit of a dilemma:

Quoting SelseyBill (Thread starter):
Do "non-scheduled' movements like LHR-LGW/ CWL positioning flights have to be made from these allocated slots, or are they discounted for the purposes of slot allocation ?

Of course there are BA ferry flights of 744s, 772s and 77Ws between LHR and CWL as all routine heavy maintenance on these aircraft is carried out at British Airways Maintenance Cardiff. And there are ferry flights between LHR and LGW. These are often operated at short notice as, for example, BA does not have a back-up 772 at LGW and frequently ferries in an aircraft from LHR when a technical problem is experienced with one of its LGW fleet.

Additionally there are a small number of biz jet movements at LHR. So, for example, according to

http://www.lhr-lgw.co.uk/lhr-movemen...7-lhr/jullhrbiz14/lhrbiz030714.mht

these two aircraft


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as well as N15LE, a Beech Super King Air, were all at LHR on 3 July last with the two US registered aircraft departing that morning and the Gulfstream 200 arriving that evening.

So it might be that there are a small number of unallocated slots that the slot coordinator will use as appropriate for these unscheduled flights.

In the case of BA's ferry flights I suppose it is possible that the slots used are operational slots where the flight has been cancelled. For example for security reasons - the conflict between Zintan and Misrata militias not far from the airport - BA cancelled its daily rotation to TIP on 20 March last before resuming it on 27 April and then suspending it again on 10 June. In theory under the EU use it or loose it rule BA would eventually have the slots used by this flight confiscated. But they could always use them for the CWL ferry flights that are time insensitive. The 772 LGW ferry flights are, however, time sensitive as passengers are likely waiting for the aircraft to fly them out of LGW.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3852
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:27 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):
So it might be that there are a small number of unallocated slots that the slot coordinator will use as appropriate for these unscheduled flights.

To the best of my knowledge, there have always been so-called "moonlight slots" available at LHR, i.e. slots that are of no sufficient commercial value for scheduled airlines as they are at unsuitable times of the day.
 
vv701
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 7):
To the best of my knowledge, there have always been so-called "moonlight slots" available at LHR, i.e. slots that are of no sufficient commercial value for scheduled airlines as they are at unsuitable times of the day.

This certainly seems to have been the case. But I am unsure if it is now still true - but see below.

My uncertainty is illustrated by Airport Coordination Ltd's LHR report at the start of S10. It says that there were 9,524 weekly slots listing 9,513 as 'allocated' and 11 as 'contingency'. However since then the number of allocated slots - for S14 there were 9,564 - has equalled the number of allocated slots with 'contingency' listed as zero.

So the three biz jet movements on 3 July still occurred but apparently with no 'contingency' slots available.

BUT on the other hand the ACL S14 report (like that for other seasons) has bar charts that shows allocated slots for each day of the week in what it describes as the 'peak week' against the number of 'available' slots. And, despite the above, this does show unused slots, mostly at the weekend but also on weekdays and at various times across the day. For example on a Thursday (the day of the week the three biz jets were at LHR) an accompanying table to the bar charts suggests a single unused arrival slot between 19:00 and 20:00 and two unallocated departure slots, one between 07:00 and 08:00, the other between 20:00 and 21:00.

One of the three biz jets is reported to have departed at 06:57 (which fits the above), another at 09:15 (that does not fit the above). The third arrived at 21:00 which is 60 minutes out from fitting the above.

It looks as if there is a data discrepancy between the ACL listing of allocated slots and their bar chats and accompanying tables. But I doubt that this actually the case. This is because it recurs through their various reports. Although I cannot explain it I think it is because the reports do not include all possible data / comment, only that of prime interest. And this just could have something to do with slots retained for positioning flights and occasional other non-scheduled operations.
 
vfw614
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RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:14 am

Slots allocated does not necessarily mean slots used. Hence the 80 per cent use-it-or-lose-it rule. If an operator does not use an allocated slot, I suppose the slot can be used for one-off biz flights or charters if requested? Although slots are traded by airlines, in the EU they are technically not owned by the airline.
 
vv701
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:14 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 9):
Although slots are traded by airlines, in the EU they are technically not owned by the airline.

  

Here is what the EU actually says:

"In particular, this Regulation stipulates some basic rules of the slot allocation mechanism: an air carrier having operated its particular slots for at least 80% during the summer/winter scheduling period is entitled to the same slots in the equivalent scheduling period of the following year (so-called grandfather rights). "

at

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/air/airports/slots_en.htm

published last November.

In this case the difference between "ownership" and "entitlement" is pretty narrow. The "use it or loose it" rule as stated in the above document :

"Consequently, slots which are not sufficiently used by air carriers are reallocated (the so-called "use it or lose it" rule)."

is probably the factor that here appears to distinguish "ownership" from "entitlement".

What pushes in the opposite direction is an airline's right to sell or trade something that it actual does not "own". This right has only been confirmed by the EU relatively recently. It formally happened on 1 November 2011 as mentioned in the linked document above.
 
Utah744
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:41 pm

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:15 pm

Ouoting poster: How can this slot allocation be an odd number ? How can you have a plane take off, and not land ?

At one more T/O per week than landing somewhere around 89 months the last BA plane will takeoff and there will be more planes at LHR.
You are never too old to learn something stupid
 
SelseyBill
Topic Author
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:38 pm

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 6):
Great (?) minds think alike

I'm glad there is someone else on this island as smart as my better half; she knows everything !!!!
 
spottingpete93
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:16 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:20 pm

There are two types of slot allocations:
1: Those which qualify for historic precedence for the next equivalent season provided the 80% utilisation rule is passed
2: Those which DO NOT qualify for historic precendence (essentially an ad-hoc allocation).

It is true that BA have an odd number of historic slots allocated at LHR in a Summer season (following the BMI purchase) but ACL normally find enough non historic Air Transport Movements to balance this out on a season by season basis.

Because the other odd historic slot is allocated to a freight service and as new historic slots cannot be allocated to freighters at LHR there will always be this imbalance between BA and BCS (DHL) until either BA or BCS do not retain the historic right to one of their slots per week. Just for your information, BCS actually have an even number of historic slots - it's just that 1 slot per week is a positioning flight and therefore does not qualify for a historic air transport movement.
 
timboflier215
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:07 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Thread starter):
4893 weekly slots @ LHR

This is an increase of 38 on last summer's total of 4825. Only a 0.8% increase, but nice to see BA being able to continue to increase it's total slot holding.
 
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VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
So what is next for BA? PDX, SJC, SLC, MSY?

MSY should be next but no announcement has been made yet.
 
vv701
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 14):
This is an increase of 38 on last summer's total of 4825.

I believe that at least a few of these slots were old BD slots that were leased to other operators at the time of the BA-BD merger and have now been returned to their new owner.
 
timboflier215
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:24 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 16):

That would make sense. I'm still impatiently waiting for BA to announce the rest of the new long haul flying they promised us when they finished the purchase of BD...
 
Andy33
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RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:59 am

I think BA may be impatiently waiting for the arrival of the extra long haul aircraft to do it with...
 
timboflier215
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: BA S14 LHR Slot Allocation

Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:28 am

True. Though they have prioritised replacements of older a/c with their new deliveries, rather than using them to grow long haul.

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