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phxtravelboy
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"Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:15 pm

This list is probably more of a wish list than anything. It would be nice if the following were added to MKE:

AA: MIA I think this route is pushing it on the E145. I read the E175 will be coming to MIA. This would be the perfect market for it.

DL: LGA Mainline instead of all regional
SLC Tried 2 times I believe and discontinued both times. I've read on here it's rumored once again.
SEA With the recent build up why not add MKE for more Asian connections

UA: SFO I'm amazed they don't offer a flight to their huge West coast hub offering numerous Pacific destination connections
IAD Tried a few times and discontinued. With IAD struggling maybe not such a good add.

In general I wish UA would add some mainline flights as it's nothing but UA Express. Every single flight excpet for maybe 2 is on the 50 seaters which is ridiculous. Why not fly the E175 on some of the flights? For example, a measley 2 50 seaters to DEN? Only 100 seats a day? It is increased to a whopping 3 50 seaters during summer. Wow.

US: PHX Currently 2 flights per day.I can't believe they can't make at least 3 work. I see they will finally be switching the flights to A320 instead of A319 at least.

Like UA, US is entirely US Express (except for the 2 mainline to PHX). You can't add some mainline flights to CLT or PHL? Really? Also like UA, every single flight is on a 50 seater except for I think 1 CR7 to CLT. Again, why can't you fly the E175 on some of these flights?

WN: BNA This would open up more connection options to the Southeast plus there is some O & D
HOU This also opens up more connection possibilities plus there is some O & D
MSY You can't make this market work daily, year round? It's going to seasonal Sat only service. Really?
PHX Like US, only 2 flights per day. I would think at least 3 a day is doable
MCI & STL Only 2 flights per day. Again, I would think they could profitably fill at least 3
SAN I don't see anyone else flying N/S to SAN except for WN

AS With their recent expansion East, why not MKE to SEA? WN already flies it but only one per day. AS would open up the entire Pacific NW and Alaska for connecting options and the O & D to SEA

NK NK flies those looking for the absolutely lowest possible fare. People in WI are known to be shall we say "frugal" so NK would have NO problem filling their flights from MKE. They could fly to LAS, MCO, DFW, MSY among others.


As I said above, this is primarily a wish list. I realize not all airlines have the aircraft available to expand, and that if an airline thinks market B will generate more profits than market C, they'll go to marker B. It would be nice to see this service. What else would you add or suggest?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):

DL: LGA Mainline instead of all regional

Doubt it. NYC is a market where frequency is important. Going from 5x CR7/CR9 to 3x 717 wouldn't be consistent with the frequency-for-business-markets ethos. UA flies 3x ERJ to EWR so DL is already doing well by MKE on this score.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:54 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 1):
Doubt it. NYC is a market where frequency is important. Going from 5x CR7/CR9 to 3x 717 wouldn't be consistent with the frequency-for-business-markets ethos. UA flies 3x ERJ to EWR so DL is already doing well by MKE on this score.

I didn't mention reducing the frequency in the market; just converting it to mainline. I think the current schedule of 5 per day all on mainline would work. NYC is always in the top 3 destinations from MKE.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:31 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
DL: LGA Mainline instead of all regional
SLC Tried 2 times I believe and discontinued both times. I've read on here it's rumored once again.
SEA With the recent build up why not add MKE for more Asian connections

As a DL/DM I am only interested in that airline:
LGA: I think they have the perfect fit for the traffic on the route. You might be able to upgauge at times, but not all the time.
SLC: It has never worked for DL. I flew it several times, but there is very little served that can not be served from MSP.
SEA: After you strip away the ORD, DTW flyers, not sure enough demand.

I think DL MKE will be relatively stable for them in the near term. If anything you might see the loss of three trips to CVG if DL trims more there.
 
Chisky16
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:34 pm

If NK opened MKE, it would pull traffic from their growing ORD base. A good amount of Spirit customers do drive from Wisconsin to take advantage of the low fares at ORD, and with its ULCC model, Spirit doesn't trouble with making it "convenient" and closer for people by serving more than one airport within a region. I can see G4 perhaps entering the market instead.
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phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:36 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 3):
I think DL MKE will be relatively stable for them in the near term. If anything you might see the loss of three trips to CVG if DL trims more there.

At least DL has converted 2 of the flights to ATL to the 757. That's a start. I agree, DL will be pretty stable in MKE. They are #2 in the latest stats released on market share at Mitchell.
 
apodino
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
US: PHX Currently 2 flights per day.I can't believe they can't make at least 3 work. I see they will finally be switching the flights to A320 instead of A319 at least.

Like UA, US is entirely US Express (except for the 2 mainline to PHX). You can't add some mainline flights to CLT or PHL? Really? Also like UA, every single flight is on a 50 seater except for I think 1 CR7 to CLT. Again, why can't you fly the E175 on some of these flights?

One complication with US operating mainline to PHL and CLT is that Air Wisconsin has a maintenance hangar in MKE that dates back to the UA days, and because of this their contract with US necessitates ZW RONs in MKE (which also increases the number of RTs they operate due to the need to stage crews on RONs, especially with 117), and previously CLT and PHL were the only gateways to get these planes into MKE for MX. With the AA merger, they may be able to rightsize some equipment here as I would not be surprised to see ZW metal replace MQ on some ORD RTs, especially with JI adding the CRJ 900s in CLT, likely leaving ZW to reduce there (not hard since they have no Crew or MX base in CLT presently)

As for PHX, this route was at 3X during the spring, and has actually seen the 321 in recent months. Given the seasonal nature of PHX from MKE, the close proximity to ORD, the merger, and the need to repaint the US Fleet, it is difficult to say where they are going with this in the future. That being said, next spring is currently loaded as 2X on the 319. Things will change before then, I promise you.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 4):
If NK opened MKE, it would pull traffic from their growing ORD base. A good amount of Spirit customers do drive from Wisconsin to take advantage of the low fares at ORD, and with its ULCC model, Spirit doesn't trouble with making it "convenient" and closer for people by serving more than one airport within a region. I can see G4 perhaps entering the market instead.

As discussed previously on this forum, ORD is a thorn in the side of MKE's growth as people do what you just said; drive to ORD.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:48 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
SEA With the recent build up why not add MKE for more Asian connections
Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
UA: SFO I'm amazed they don't offer a flight to their huge West coast hub offering numerous Pacific destination connections

Does MKE even have that much Asia/Pacific demand?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:52 pm

The last time Delta ran MKE-SLC it was horribly timed and had LONG connection times to all the smaller and unique cities for which SLC would be really useful. Delta ran it timing wise when the gate space was available and o&d i guess wasn't enough to carry it alone. Its out of CR2 range according to their own guidelines which Delta has the gate space for so i think it just got dropped for that reason alone, not worth the gate space at a prime time.

I guess Delta must have numbers to show they are carrying alot of the o&d off connections in MSP anyway, no reason to fly it if you are winning the customers anyway. Its a big hole in the Delta system but a connecting in MSP is only 42 miles out of the way so your almost directly flying over another hub. If there was a huge business demand from people in SLC I think Delta would fly it, but its not a route any company needs to have.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:54 pm

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
As for PHX, this route was at 3X during the spring, and has actually seen the 321 in recent months. Given the seasonal nature of PHX from MKE, the close proximity to ORD, the merger, and the need to repaint the US Fleet, it is difficult to say where they are going with this in the future. That being said, next spring is currently loaded as 2X on the 319. Things will change before then, I promise you.

I'm from WI but now live in PHX. I fly the PHX/MKE/PHX route frequently. I try to book the nonstops usually. The flights are always packed. I fly to WI usually in April, July, and October. I realize a full flight doesn't mean a profitable flight. My flights to MKE even in July are packed both ways. PHX isn't as seasonal to some of the Midwest markets as some think as there is plenty of year round demand both ways. Winter from WI to AZ and summer the other way around.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 9):
Its out of CR2 range according to their own guidelines which Delta has the gate space for so i think it just got dropped for that reason alone, not worth the gate space at a prime time.

I know that DL's preferred policy is to use a jet bridge when boarding any flight with an F cabin, but I for one wouldn't complain too much if they boarded a few CR7s from the E concourse if they really need the space.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Reply 10):
PHX isn't as seasonal to some of the Midwest markets as some think as there is plenty of year round demand both ways. Winter from WI to AZ and summer the other way around.

Your right some of those midwestern routes aren't as seasonal, but there is far more traffic across the board during the winter and spring months. Enough to seasonally adjust capacity and frequency. I think your wish for 3x daily is very optimistic. Look for 2x 321s or 2x 320s before they more to a 3x 319 schedule. 2x 321 is actually 2 seats more than 3x 319. They also have to compete with the 2x daily WN nonstops. So 4x daily MKE-PHX is pretty generous capacity considering the amount of ORD/MDW-PHX as well if you consider leakage.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
Does MKE even have that much Asia/Pacific demand?

I don't know to be honest. A flight to SFO opens up other connections too to cities on the West coast plus O & D to SFO and the Bay Area in general.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:26 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Reply 5):
At least DL has converted 2 of the flights to ATL to the 757.

A couple to MSP as well.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 11):
I know that DL's preferred policy is to use a jet bridge when boarding any flight with an F cabin, but I for one wouldn't complain too much if they boarded a few CR7s from the E concourse if they really need the space.

The gate issue is in SLC. Delta used CR7's on the route when they flew it.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:12 pm

Wingspan is like 6 feet longer in CR7 and the whole concourse in SLC was not designed for planes that big, it was designed for CR2s there were a few problems

Alaska was pushing for the airport to let them use their Q400s in a remote area or in E and the airport doesn't seem too hot on the idea anywhere
 
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mariner
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:26 pm

Frontier has just applied to fly MKE-PVR this winter - click on the off icon in the link to read the filing:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-2014-0132-0001

mariner
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S75752
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
UA: SFO I'm amazed they don't offer a flight to their huge West coast hub offering numerous Pacific destination connections

This (and LAX) seem like it really could use some Legacy love... but given the WN invasion, it would almost certain have to be an express flight, and UA doesn't have any regional craft that would likely make that distance.

I also wonder if MKE could use some Turboprop hopper operations within the state, like from ATW and GRB, continuing to ORD.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:53 pm

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 14):

The gate issue is in SLC. Delta used CR7's on the route when they flew it.

Right--I'm talking about the E concourse in SLC--tons of CR2 gates, and not currently operating at capacity, but no proper jetbridges. I've often wondered if DL might consider parking some CR7s there to alleviate the gate issues elsewhere. But part of the E concourse will be demolished in the early phases of the terminal rebuild, so that would only be a short-term option.
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:34 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 18):

Doh! I'm MKE centric.  
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:33 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 12):
Your right some of those midwestern routes aren't as seasonal, but there is far more traffic across the board during the winter and spring months. Enough to seasonally adjust capacity and frequency. I think your wish for 3x daily is very optimistic. Look for 2x 321s or 2x 320s before they more to a 3x 319 schedule. 2x 321 is actually 2 seats more than 3x 319. They also have to compete with the 2x daily WN nonstops. So 4x daily MKE-PHX is pretty generous capacity considering the amount of ORD/MDW-PHX as well if you consider leakage.

Even 2X A321 on the PHX route would be great. More seats.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:35 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 17):
I also wonder if MKE could use some Turboprop hopper operations within the state, like from ATW and GRB, continuing to ORD.

I don't think those types of flights would do well at all unfortunately. ATW is only a 2 hour drive to MKE and GRB slightly longer. Back in the day of the YX hub, yes, then those flights worked as the overwhelming majority of pax were connecting to another YX flight.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:26 am

Quoting phxtravelboy (Reply 2):
I didn't mention reducing the frequency in the market; just converting it to mainline. I think the current schedule of 5 per day all on mainline would work.

Well you might see the ability to upguage all five flights to mainline, and I might see the ability to upguage one or two (which is what I think would be plausible if 717s were used), Delta unfortunately doesn't.

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
US: PHX Currently 2 flights per day.I can't believe they can't make at least 3 work. I see they will finally be switching the flights to A320 instead of A319 at least.

Frankly, I've always been impressed that MKE could maintain the level of service to PHX that it has.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:16 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 22):
Frankly, I've always been impressed that MKE could maintain the level of service to PHX that it has.

Why? The ties between WI and AZ are deep as thousands of people (like my brother and me) have relocated from WI to AZ. That alone creates demand. Us traveling back to WI; family and friends visiting us in AZ. Then there is the obvious increase in travel in the winter for those from WI wanting to come to the sun; Spring Break; Milwaukee Brewers Spring training here in PHX. Those are just the local ties. Add in those on the flights connecting and they equal full flights.
 
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knope2001
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:53 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 22):
Frankly, I've always been impressed that MKE could maintain the level of service to PHX that it has.

MKE is actually a relatively large local traffic market to/from Phoenix. Using Q1 stats from last year MKE was the 21st largest destination overall, and the 9th largest in the central & eastern time zones:

Daily local passengers to/from PHX, Q1 2013 central / eastern time zones

2178 ….. MSP
1662 ….. ORD
1085 ….. EWR
1083 ….. DFW
1053 ….. MDW
1037 ….. DTW
1006 ….. JFK
913 ….. ATL
895 ….. MKE
879 ….. PHL
877 ….. BOS
798 ….. BWI
789 ….. MCI
752 ….. STL
658 ….. MCO
630 ….. OMA
613 ….. IND
526 ….. AUS
508 ….. CLE
506 ….. IAH
500 ….. FLL
473 ….. TPA
458 ….. CMH
442 ….. CLT
424 ….. BNA
420 ….. SAT
410 ….. DCA
371 ….. PIT
346 ….. HOU
341 ….. DSM
295 ….. MSY
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:57 am

Thank you Knope. I was waiting for you to chime in since this thread involves MKE.   
 
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asqx
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:14 am

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 18):
I've often wondered if DL might consider parking some CR7s there to alleviate the gate issues elsewhere.

Back when they were all coach the CRJ-700s were frequent visitors to the E Gates in Salt Lake. I can remember walking through falling snow in Salt Lake only to be greeted by 70+ degree weather on arrival in Phoenix.
 
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knope2001
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:26 am

Quoting phxtravelboy (Reply 25):
Thank you Knope. I was waiting for you to chime in since this thread involves MKE.

Wasn't sure if I'd have time to chime in or not, plus a lot of what I'd say has already been said. On PHX-MKE those are Q1 numbers which is peak, but when I took a quick look at other quarters the rankings didn't vary much even though total numbers were lower to MKE and to many other markets.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:35 am

I assume MKE-PHX is the snowbirds hence why its so popular in winter? Much like how NYC/BOS-FLL has so many flights during the winter? Escaping the cold snowy cities for some sun and no snow
 
jumpjets
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:36 am

C'mon guys - we are up to 30 posts nearly and no one has yet suggested a seasonal 757 service to LHR - things are slipping round here  
 
rj777
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:40 am

I know I've said this in almost every MKE centered thread...... but I hope SOMEBODY brings back MKE-OMA!
 
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knope2001
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:34 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 28):
I assume MKE-PHX is the snowbirds hence why its so popular in winter? Much like how NYC/BOS-FLL has so many flights during the winter? Escaping the cold snowy cities for some sun and no snow

Yes, but a similar seasonal component exists for many if not most Phoenix markets. For example in Q3 2013:

PHX-ORD 1158, down from 1662 in Q1
PHX-MDW 841, down from 1053 in Q1
PHX-ATL 732, down from 913 in Q1
PHX-BWI 668, down from 798 in Q1
PHX-MKE 662, down from 895 in Q1
PHX-STL 592, down from 752 in Q1
PHX-MCI 541, down from 789 in Q1
PHX-IND 452, down from 613 in Q1
PHX-MCO 432, down from 658 in Q1
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:46 pm

Once upon a time, wasn't MKE a focus city of Northwest Airlines? I am thinking mid-90s. If my memory serves me correctly, they flew daily to: LAS, LAX, LGA, PHX etc. Anyone have more exact info? I don't believe it lasted very long.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:50 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 29):
C'mon guys - we are up to 30 posts nearly and no one has yet suggested a seasonal 757 service to LHR - things are slipping round here

MKE should ask BWI how they manage to keep a LON flight being so close to IAD with so many daily LON flights.
And if MKE is not that picky, if being offered LON, It shouldn't refuse something like a seasonal summer + Xmas/NewYear only BA LGW-MKE.
B.T.W, When is MKE international arrivals gate going to be linked by a connector to the concourses at the airport terminal?
That way It could be used as an extra gate (jet-way), whenever needed and if available.

Some U.S. airports are noticing CM started FLL so close to MIA, so it's not foolish to think that airports like PVD and BWI have contacted the Latin American airline. MKE should look how CM is doing at ORD and introduce itself. Having that F.I.S. gate free when ORD international arrivals gates are full can be considered a big plus.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
ScottB
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
SEA With the recent build up why not add MKE for more Asian connections

Because those Asian connections can be made more efficiently through DTW or MSP. Every connecting route except for NRT is shorter via DTW than SEA, and NRT is shorter via MSP.

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
For example, a measley 2 50 seaters to DEN? Only 100 seats a day? It is increased to a whopping 3 50 seaters during summer. Wow.

United isn't interested in fighting F9 & WN for low-yielding traffic to DEN, so they cater to the miles-obsessed and those making expensive connections at DEN to uncompetitive markets.

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
MSY You can't make this market work daily, year round? It's going to seasonal Sat only service. Really?

The O&D is 75-100 passengers daily each way, and the connections at either end aren't great.

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
MCI & STL Only 2 flights per day. Again, I would think they could profitably fill at least 3

Based on what data? The total O&D traffic is only 100-150 passengers daily each way in both markets, so they already rely heavily on connections.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):
The O&D is 75-100 passengers daily each way, and the connections at either end aren't great.

  

MKE-BNA-MSY or MKE-HOU-MSY thru service could be interesting, though, given that there is some O&D.
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AADC10
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
UA: SFO I'm amazed they don't offer a flight to their huge West coast hub offering numerous Pacific destination connections

Why would passengers want to connect at SFO when they can go non-stop from ORD? A large number of passengers drive from the Milwaukee area to ORD just to get lower fares. The 90 minute drive is probably shorter than the time on the ground at SFO. UA goes to NRT, PEK, PVG and HKG not to mention HNL from ORD. Many other Asian destinations are available on other carriers at ORD so only a small subset of the already limited demand for Asia out of MKE would benefit from a flight to SFO.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):
The O&D is 75-100 passengers daily each way, and the connections at either end aren't great.

MKE-MSY has never really been a large market. Weekly seasonal service likely works due to the cruise ship traffic and peak vacation season in NOLA. The route probably worked better when FL was its own entity because they flew it with a smaller a/c and there were connections offered via MKE. WN's larger presence in MSY makes connections via MKE somewhat obsolete.
 
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Frontier14
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:16 pm

Unfortunately for MKE, the demise of FL and the RAH debacle with Midwest and F9 allowed the erosion of what was once a functioning hub to collapse into the history books. Sadly, barring a miracle, MKE seems destined to be a step child to ORD going forward and only a spoke city for the nation's remaining carriers.   

Frontier 14
 
phxtravelboy
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:30 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 29):
C'mon guys - we are up to 30 posts nearly and no one has yet suggested a seasonal 757 service to LHR - things are slipping round here

LOL! That would be cool!

Quoting rj777 (Reply 30):
I know I've said this in almost every MKE centered thread...... but I hope SOMEBODY brings back MKE-OMA!

I was thinking of adding OMA, CMH, and PIT to my cities but I'm not sure who would fly them. I think a WN 737 would maybe be to big. Who else then?

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 32):
Once upon a time, wasn't MKE a focus city of Northwest Airlines? I am thinking mid-90s. If my memory serves me correctly, they flew daily to: LAS, LAX, LGA, PHX etc. Anyone have more exact info? I don't believe it lasted very long.

Yes. I'm thinking it was even earlier than that possibly... The flew to a number of cities including OMA, DSM, and some J31 to OSH, ATW, GRB, CID and I think maybe even RFD.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 33):
B.T.W, When is MKE international arrivals gate going to be linked by a connector to the concourses at the airport terminal?

I've been wondering that too. Granted, most people arriving on the int'l arrivals to MKE probably aren't connecting somewhere else, but still..

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 38):
Sadly, barring a miracle, MKE seems destined to be a step child to ORD going forward and only a spoke city for the nation's remaining carriers.

Sadly, I think you're right.
 
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TVNWZ
Posts: 2259
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:05 pm

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 38):
Unfortunately for MKE, the demise of FL and the RAH debacle with Midwest and F9 allowed the erosion of what was once a functioning hub to collapse into the history books

I think the YX hub concept was doomed from the beginning no matter who ran the hub. First , when oil prices went up it was impossible to make a living with an airplane (717) that only had 88 seats and charge a reasonable fare people would buy. Sadly, the only debacle was for shareholders who tought they could.
 
crAAzy
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
AA: MIA I think this route is pushing it on the E145. I read the E175 will be coming to MIA. This would be the perfect market for it.

The E145s don't have the range for MKE-MIA. E175s and of course the A319s do.

Quoting phxtravelboy (Reply 7):
As discussed previously on this forum, ORD is a thorn in the side of MKE's growth as people do what you just said; drive to ORD.

Overall yes, but there are actually some markets out of MKE that will pull in travelers from N. IL/SE WI that will use MKE for convenience, FF benefits (easier upgrades, etc) and for the sole purpose of avoiding ORD. AA has found that MKE-DFW happens to be one of those routes for them.

MIA may just be another one of those routes for AA, when the time comes.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 2155
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:57 am

in regards to the NW MKE hub I did find this article

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...press-northwest-airlines-concourse

also another article

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...&sjid=hiwEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2117,5680981

[Edited 2014-08-15 19:00:43]

[Edited 2014-08-15 19:01:04]
 
phxtravelboy
Topic Author
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:42 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:30 am

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 42):
in regards to the NW MKE hub I did find this article

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...press-northwest-airlines-concourse

also another article

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...80981

Thanks Cidflyer. I was laughing to myself as the first article in the Chicago Tribune was published on my 20th birthday. Lol. Oh to be 20 again.....lol.
 
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knope2001
Posts: 3020
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RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:52 pm

Some quick notes on the two NW minihub operations at MKE.

(1) In the wake of the NW/RC merger Northwest operated some nonhub flights at MKE...mainline to a couple of places including LGA and LAX, and J31 NW* to a few more places including Green Bay, Indianapolis, Oshkosh, Grand Rapids. In 1988 or so they decided to turn MKE into a mini-hub to take pressure off of DTW and MSP. Milwaukee got mainline nonstop to BOS, LGA, EWR, PHL, DCA, YYZ, Florida, OMA, DSM, MSN, LAS, LAX, SFO, and SEA or PHX, plus the Convair 580 was brought into MKE for the first time in years for flights to GRR, GRB, CWA. There were also J31 flights to places like ATW, CMH, IND, CID. Most flights were operated in banks. The banked schedule didn't last all that long with OMA and DSM doing especially poorly and being dropped. The Convair went away and most feeder markets turned into J31 and SWM with the occasional SF3 or F27. The mainline flights become somewhat less banked and connectivity dropped. The gulf war / recession of the early 90's led NW to post big losses, and they pulled the plug on their mini-hubs in Milwaukee and Washington DCA. Not coincidentally at the time of the pullback Midwest Express joined the NW frequent flyer program, and Midwest Express also dropped their weak-performing, NW-competing MKE-DTW flights. The partnership with NW lasted several years but ended in the late 90's if I recall correctly.

(2) In summer of 2003 in the ongoing post 9/11 recession and travel slump Northwest announced and heavily-promoted "Six New Nonstops" around Milwaukee. These were once-daily Airbus nonstop to BOS, LGA, DCA, MCO, LAS, LAX, with the business markets offering and early morning outbound and an early evening return to Milwaukee. They were clearly trying to nab Milwaukee business traffic from Midwest Express. Loads to the business markets were pretty awful (load factors in the 20's, 30's and 40's many months) though the long haul leisure markets did okay. Within about a year BOS/LGA/DCA were switched to CRJ and frequency increased. These flights did much better and several more CRJ markets were added including Denver, Kansas City, Baltimore, St Louis, Pittsburgh and Toronto, plus some additional leisure flying including Phoenix and Fort Myers were added. There was a fair amount of banking, connectivity and thru flights including routings like BOS-MKE-DEN on a CRJ. Northwest pulled the plug on this flight in late 2006.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:58 pm

I see that WN has filled a hole by starting CUN. Good for MKE.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
phxtravelboy
Topic Author
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:42 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:34 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 45):
I see that WN has filled a hole by starting CUN. Good for MKE.

This is WN simply transitioning the flight from FL. DL and F9 also will fly to CUN this winter. All the service is Saturday only.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting phxtravelboy (Reply 46):
DL and F9 also will fly to CUN this winter. All the service is Saturday

The Frontier website is showing 2 x weekly - Thursday and Saturday - from January 8 though the booking period.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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mke717spotter
Posts: 2156
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:18 am

Quoting phxtravelboy (Thread starter):
US: PHX Currently 2 flights per day.I can't believe they can't make at least 3 work. I see they will finally be switching the flights to A320 instead of A319 at least.

Wasn't US just running 3x daily MKE-PHX flights not too long ago? I could've sworn I saw a post in the OAG thread that they added a redeye flight. I've never seen a US A321 at MKE though, the last few years its been a mix of A319/320. WN was flying MKE-PHX 3x daily for a while too but its since dropped down.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
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knope2001
Posts: 3020
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: "Holes" In MKE's Route Map

Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:21 am

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 48):
Wasn't US just running 3x daily MKE-PHX flights not too long ago? I could've sworn I saw a post in the OAG thread that they added a redeye flight. I've never seen a US A321 at MKE though, the last few years its been a mix of A319/320. WN was flying MKE-PHX 3x daily for a while too but its since dropped down.

US ran that 3rd (red-eye) PHX-MKE-PHX flight only for the month of March last year. IIRC it was added to the schedule fairly close in...perhaps late fall...and only for that single month. They filled the added capacity reasonably well:

89.1% @ 2x/day January
90.4% @ 2x/day February
92.3% @ 3x/day March
82.7% @ 2x/day April
87.4% @ 2x/day May

Southwest has gone back and forth between 2x and 3x on MKE-PHX in recent years depending on season. Wouldn't be a surprise for a 3rd one to be back with the next schedule extension (assuming it is not a casualty of a the currently-tight fleet) with a return to 2x come summer.

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