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Baexecutive
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Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:08 am

Just wondering what people's thoughts were on the future of this Scottish airline, how long is the franchise with flybe for? Any chance of the airline going it alone or striking up a franchise with another carrier?

Also, what happened to the Scot Airways fleet, are they painted in flybe colours?
 
vv701
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:20 am

I think Loganair, who promote themselves as "Scotland's Airline", could have a very different future depending on whether it is "Yes" or "No" on 18 September.
 
Baexecutive
Topic Author
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:07 am

I was thinking that too. Wonder what sort of fleet they would have in ten+ years
 
vfw614
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:18 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
I think Loganair, who promote themselves as "Scotland's Airline", could have a very different future depending on whether it is "Yes" or "No" on 18 September.

Why? I hope that Scotland will not be foolish and dream of a national airline blown out of proportions. Even England & Wales only have London Airways.... The type of routes that in the past would have been serviced by an "Air Scotland" to Euroepan capitals are nowadays offered by the likes of easyJet
 
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lapper
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:26 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
depending on whether it is "Yes" or "No" on 18 September.

Slightly off track, but if it is "Yes", we'll probably see them re-registered at some point losing a G- prefix. Could Scotland adopt an S- prefix, similar to IOM's M- prefix?
 
vfw614
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:33 am

Wonder if the APD for flights between Scotland and England will be for international flights after a possible independence... (and how about VAT - this is slapped on domestic flights in Germany, but not international flights...)
 
EIDL
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:12 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 5):
Wonder if the APD for flights between Scotland and England will be for international flights after a possible independence... (and how about VAT - this is slapped on domestic flights in Germany, but not international flights...)

They would have to charge the same APD on distance alone as they currently do as any other penalty would be against EU regulations - as was found to be the case when Ireland had two rates (thankfully those two were combined to the lower rate then removed entirely). Charging higher APD for the distance to GLA/EDI/ABZ etc from London would also hammer remaining UK domestic routes like STN-LDY

UK charges no VAT on flights.
 
Lofty
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:48 am

They did the franchise line before with BA.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:29 am

Quoting baexecutive (Reply 2):
I was thinking that too. Wonder what sort of fleet they would have in ten+ years

Probably a similar one to the fleet they've got now! I don't see any massive expansion in Loganair, independence or not. Although I wouldn't put it past the first minister to launch a vanity airline, it wouldn't last long as aviation is bigger than Scotland and her aspirations.

Quoting Lofty (Reply 7):
They did the franchise line before with BA.

Has Loganair ever flown it's own flights? For as long as I have known them they've flown under BA and then BE since 2008. I think the BE business model seems to fit them better over the last 6 years.

Quoting lapper (Reply 4):
Slightly off track, but if it is "Yes", we'll probably see them re-registered at some point losing a G- prefix. Could Scotland adopt an S- prefix, similar to IOM's M- prefix?
Quoting baexecutive (Thread starter):
Also, what happened to the Scot Airways fleet, are they painted in flybe colours?

Some of them. 5 were transferred to Loganair and fly in BE colours (one promoting Dundee) and 2 went to Cityjet.

The DND flight went over my house last night.

Sandyb123
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EIDL
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 8):
Has Loganair ever flown it's own flights?

They operate the Orkney services as themselves I believe. Their main flights have been franchised for as long as I can remember.
 
Lofty
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:56 am

Before the BA franchise they operated as themselves. I was based in EDI and they had their own check-in desks and staff in tartan.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:08 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
I think Loganair, who promote themselves as "Scotland's Airline", could have a very different future depending on whether it is "Yes" or "No" on 18 September.

Oh come off it, they're flybe to the general market, all client facing branding is in line with that. A revertion to the old branding was condsidered when the BA franchise was not renewed but flybe made the deal which means sales and marketing expenses setup expenses were avoided. The routes and market themselves will not change markedly with the politics of the day. Most of the operation is internal Scottish anyway. The next major change looks like more S2000s and the departure of the Tw'Otters.

Quoting Lofty (Reply 10):
Before the BA franchise they operated as themselves. I was based in EDI and they had their own check-in desks and staff in tartan.

That changed in 1994 when Airlines of Britain was re-orged, in house staff were let go and they were then handled by Midland.

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 8):
Has Loganair ever flown it's own flights? For as long as I have known them they've flown under BA and then BE since 2008. I think the BE business model seems to fit them better over the last 6 years.

Good heavens man, a very basic search on google would show a very long history, they celebrated 50 years of operation just recent;y. Have a look on the photo search page and filter Loganair by 1970s and 1980s.

Quoting EIDL (Reply 9):
They operate the Orkney services as themselves I believe. Their main flights have been franchised for as long as I can remember.

Franchising began in 1995 when they split back out from Manx.

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 3):
Even England & Wales only have London Airways....

Except BA have a major domestic operation out of EDI/GLA and less so from ABZ. Willie Walsh himself has said he sees no issue with the potential departure of Scotland from the Union, tweaks to the flag being the main one I imagine. Life would go on surprisingly as it did before for most of us, I don't think there would be a major impact on the industry.
 
richcandy
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:19 am

Hi

I can't remember all the routes they used to operate with their own flight code but in the early 90's when I was working in Belfast, they flew.

BHD-MAN
BHD-EDI
BHD-GLA
BHD-BLK (think this might of been summer only)

Alex
 
vv701
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:39 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 3):
Even England & Wales only have London Airways..


British Airways are not even the largest UK airline measured by passengers carried.

The largest in 2013 was easyJet who carried 50,963,923, significantly more than British Airways (38,412,127).

And SRB would be pretty miffed at being totally discounted even if there are four other British airlines in addition to BA and U2 that carried more passengers in 2013 than did his beloved VS.
 
vfw614
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 3):
Even England & Wales only have London Airways....

Except BA have a major domestic operation out of EDI/GLA and less so from ABZ.

Which is, if I am not mistaken, a single route - to LHR (or make two if you count in BACF to LCY) - which exist because of the LHR end.
 
vv701
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:49 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
Which is, if I am not mistaken, a single route - to LHR (or make two if you count in BACF to LCY) - which exist because of the LHR end.

Certainly BA only operate from EDI to LON.

BA fly 12 times a day from EDI to LHR, ten times a day to LCY and four times a day to LGW. Two of the LHR flights are operated by 763s.
 
vfw614
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:39 pm

My point was that it is unconvincing to suggest that BA is sort of dedicated to Scotland because they operate from there to their London hubs. Now, if they were flying nonstops from GLA and EDI to domestic and/or European destinations, I would rest my case, but other than that....

The fact that they have crew based up there can hardly be seen as a strong commitment - that's simpy the result of how the schedule is structured to meet customer demand.
 
vv701
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
The routes and market themselves will not change markedly with the politics of the day.

The Scottish government thinks differently. Here is what their White Paper on independence says:

"Scotland’s geographical position makes strong international and cross-border transport links vital for our economic success and our social wellbeing. Connecting Scotland with the world will never be a top priority for a Westminster Government, with its focus on the transport needs of London and the South East. It is only with independence that we can make choices based upon what is right for Scotland and our economy and what is right for communities and the quality of life of our people."

Note the use of the word "vital". So it is probable that the ball game of civil aviation in Scotland will change significantly with a "Yes" vote. If that happens Loganair's choice is to be part of that game or remain a local franchise operator for an English airline. If their is a "No" vote then we are unlikely to see much change in Loganair's operations despite the fact that in their 52 year history they made significant strategy changes particularly in 1967, 1983, 1994 and 2008.
 
Humberside
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:32 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 15):
Certainly BA only operate from EDI to LON.

Not that it changes much in this discussion, but BA do also fly EDI-Ibiza on a seasonal scheduled basis
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
anstar
Posts: 3322
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 3):
The type of routes that in the past would have been serviced by an "Air Scotland" to Euroepan capitals are nowadays offered by the likes of easyJet

And lets not forget the likes of Emirates who would take all the traffic going east and south. Doesn't really make a scottish "national carrier" very viable.
 
CaptCosslett
Posts: 39
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:37 pm

Just my 5 pence worth, There is not going to be an Independent Scotland. Alex Salmond lives in the land of fairys.
 
skipness1E
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RE: Future Of Loganair

Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:19 pm

VV701 that's a fantasy, like their defence policy. Worth a read though if you need a laugh.
 
by738
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: Future Of Loganair

Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:44 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 18):
Not that it changes much in this discussion, but BA do also fly EDI-Ibiza on a seasonal scheduled basis

Not anymore they don't. That has been canned after dire bookings- last flight this week I think. Often running in single figures.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Future Of Loganair

Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:54 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 22):
That has been canned after dire bookings- last flight this week I think

I believe the last rotation was on 8 / 9 August.
 
evomutant
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 8:47 am

RE: Future Of Loganair

Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 22):
Not anymore they don't. That has been canned after dire bookings- last flight this week I think. Often running in single figures.

Which was probably half the intention.

Look! The reason we don't operate out of anywhere but London is lack of demand! The fact nobody wanted our short season, thrice a week, badly timed flight from EDI to IBZ is all the proof you need!

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