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iowaman
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New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:21 pm

Time for another new thread due to length of part 46. It is archived but available for viewing here: New Frontier Part 46 (by EK413 Jun 13 2014 in Civil Aviation)
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:50 am

New thread, new focus city. IAD starts this week.

I think it's a ballsy move by Frontier, and aggressive - already 17 cities are announced (18 if you include the unannounced NAS), and there are some interesting choices.

I think the timing is interesting, too - the end of the big holiday travel and probably before the Fall travel starts, but it may be a sensible way to ease IAD into the system, iron out the glitches.

It's possible that not all of the routes will work, there may be a duffer or two, and, at this time of the year, it's possible to think that even Florida will have its down days.

But there are a couple of anecdotal clues already. First IAD-MCO - 8/19 - has a sticker on it in the booking engine saying "sold out" and, just going by the seats maps, second MCO seems close to full as well.

So what, I hear you cry, first flights are often full, Well, yes, often but not always, sometimes first flights can be turkeys and in he case of IAD-MSP it is the second flight - 8/20 - that has a "sold out" sticker.

These "sold out" stickers are new to me, it used to be that if a flight was full they would simply grey it out, and I'm not sure how much they mean - there may be novelty value at work and there are bound to be bumps in the road.

I guess it may take some time to bring IAD fully up to speed - CLE started (mostly) at the beginning of the peak travel season and under different circumstances - and like TTN Frontier may have to get people used to the idea that it is at IAD, but I have my fingers and toes crossed.  

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GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:36 am

I'm somewhat surprised F9 opted to fly to both IAD-PBI and IAD-FLL which are 42 miles apart; airport to airport. The IAD-FLL service inaugurates next month and the IAD-PBI flies in November.

The service is offered on alternating days of the week which should provide ample coverage for southeast Florida. It looks like a Saturday flight may be offered to both cities from IAD in November after PBI ramps up.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Dallas
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:07 pm

Okay F9 emps, I have to ask. Two of us tried nonreving the other weekend on you guys roundtrip, and we didn't make any of your flights due to loads. I completely understand that aspect, but when I went to get refunded, you kept $5 per ticket, per leg. In the end up I only lost $20, but really, a $5 fee just to even have the honor of being listed?

I'll be sure to remember this for next time when choosing my flights, or wait until the very last possible second to list myself when I know for a fact I'll make the flight.
 
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:45 pm

According to both The Times of Trenton and Philly.com, NAS is now official and will go on sale tomorrow, Tuesday, at 10 am (or at least TTN-NAS will).

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines...kly_Trenton-to-Nassau_flights.html

"Frontier to begin bi-weekly Trenton-to-Nassau flights

Tickets are scheduled to go on sale at 10 a.m. Tuesday on the airline website."


Perhaps to coincide with the start of IAD service - I assume IAD-NAS is cleared as well?

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Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:47 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Frontier to begin bi-weekly Trenton-to-Nassau flights

Only 2X weekly? It was supposed to go 3X weekly according to the application to the DOT but I guess maybe the constraint on planes forced them to scale back. But another good milestone for TTN, International service.

Also $79 intro fares, thats great, you can hardly travel anywhere for that these days.

[Edited 2014-08-18 17:48:51]
 
F9Animal
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:24 am

Quoting Dallas (Reply 3):
Okay F9 emps, I have to ask. Two of us tried nonreving the other weekend on you guys roundtrip, and we didn't make any of your flights due to loads. I completely understand that aspect, but when I went to get refunded, you kept $5 per ticket, per leg. In the end up I only lost $20, but really, a $5 fee just to even have the honor of being listed?

I'll be sure to remember this for next time when choosing my flights, or wait until the very last possible second to list myself when I know for a fact I'll make the flight.

You have got to be kidding me! That is the low of all lows in my opinion. They should have refunded the entire amount. This practice is disgusting. For a ramp worker or customer service agent that makes say $10 an hour, $5.00 is alot of money to be taken for. I would suggest sending a letter to the CEO. Sadly, the CEO would send you a $5.00 fee to get a response. I am all for F9 making money, but to slither a profit off of airline workers for a listing, and no seat is pretty scummy. Sorry you had this experience.

The only true customer service agents are in Denver. All outside cities have been outsourced to the cheapest vendors possible. Most just don't care, and have no empowerment to make a decision based on good customer service. Sadly, the customer service agents in Denver are also in that same position. The management team at Frontier has become militant on the workers. Needless to say, they have taken the brunt of the abuse. Which is why we will see them going union soon. It saddens me to see these wonderful people get shafted, replaced, and kicked in the back daily. The only hope for dignity and respect for the Denver agents is to follow their ramp coworkers. The leadership at F9 then tells them that a union would hamper their ability to work together on issues. However, F9 leadership can't understand why they want to unionize, and why they are upset. Especially since the airline outsourced every city besides Denver, which has created absolute fears that they will do the same to Denver. The leadership could at minimum use lubricant on their workforce.
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kingcavalier
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:50 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 6):
For a ramp worker or customer service agent that makes say $10 an hour, $5.00 is alot of money to be taken for.


Something isn't right here. If he is an employee then it would not have cost him a penny to list or travel unless it's int'l and then that's pretty nominal. If it's a buddy pass, then yes, there is a fee, but isn't the buddy pass rider responsible for their own fare? Frontier has one of the cheapest buddy pass fees in the industry. The base fare for 4 segments LAX-DEN-DCA-DEN-LAX is $40. Then there is a TFC fee (whatever that is) of $22.20 and a Conveniece Fee of $20. The total price is $82.20.

Just to be clear, Frontier makes no money off nonrev travel. Frontier didn't collect or receive a $5 convenience fee. All related fees go directly to ID90Travel.com. They manage all of Frontier's nonrev program.

This is not the proper forum to grieve Frontier's travel privileges and no one should be surprised when they don't get on a plane with load factors in the high 90's.

[Edited 2014-08-19 04:03:29]

[Edited 2014-08-19 04:12:34]
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:52 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 5):
Only 2X weekly? It was supposed to go 3X weekly according to the application to the DOT but I guess maybe the constraint on planes forced them to scale back

"The flights will be twice a week, Thursday and Sunday, on a 138-seat Airbus A319 aircraft"

If I were suspicions I would say the Bahamian government had something to say about the days of service. Perhpas the reason for the modification from three days to two. Like most gambling mecca's most arrive late Thursday and depart Sunday. In LAS I use to to do it the other way. Arrive mid to late day on Sunday and depart Tuesday or Wednesday for the best deals.

In the idea department    I think NAS would be the perfect destination to promote sail one-way fly the other for F9 be it from the Jersey shore or south Florida perhaps PBI or FLL. As I recall Nassau is only a six hour sail from south Florida.

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 5):
But another good milestone for TTN, International service.

Perhaps TTN will change their moniker to Trenton International Airport.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
Dallas
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:01 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 6):
You have got to be kidding me! That is the low of all lows in my opinion. They should have refunded the entire amount. This practice is disgusting. For a ramp worker or customer service agent that makes say $10 an hour, $5.00 is alot of money to be taken for. I would suggest sending a letter to the CEO. Sadly, the CEO would send you a $5.00 fee to get a response. I am all for F9 making money, but to slither a profit off of airline workers for a listing, and no seat is pretty scummy. Sorry you had this experience.

Sorry, I should have definitely clarified I do not work for F9, but a different airline. I was planning on using MyID for the trip, but I have a buddy that works at F9 with a bunch of extra passes. She too had no idea about the fee until I asked her about it yesterday when I looked at my credit card. Trying to not make that big of a deal about it, and definitely don't want to get her in trouble for it, but the $5 fee per ticket, per leg did come as a surprise and I was hoping for more information.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 7):
If it's a buddy pass, then yes, there is a fee, but isn't the buddy pass rider responsible for their own fare?

Well yes, provided that they actually get to fly and use the benefit.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 7):
no one should be surprised when they don't get on a plane with load factors in the high 90's.

Yep, I think I already mentioned that:

Quoting Dallas (Reply 3):
and we didn't make any of your flights due to loads. I completely understand that aspect,

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 7):
This is not the proper forum to grieve Frontier's travel privileges

It's a forum on "The New Frontier" and this was one topic pertaining to Frontier and their revenue strategies. Hardly would say I'm out of line, especially when I compare this to other airlines I've non-reved on. I just looked at my credit card statements for DL, UA, LH, and US from the past year and I always got back the full refund, minus any differences in the currency exchange. This practice I wouldn't think is industry standard when I know my own carrier doesn't do it, nor does the others I listed.
 
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:20 pm

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 5):
Only 2X weekly? It was supposed to go 3X weekly according to the application to the DOT but I guess maybe the constraint on planes forced them to scale back.

TTN-NAS is 2 x weekly to start with but goes to 3 x weekly middle of February.

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adamblang
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting Dallas (Reply 3):
a $5 fee just to even have the honor of being listed?

I don't work for Frontier but another airline. My company's listing tool charges a non-refundable fee to list on Frontier. The airline portion appears to be fully refundable, the listing tool fee appears to not be.
 
Dallas
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:21 pm

Quoting adamblang (Reply 11):
I don't work for Frontier but another airline. My company's listing tool charges a non-refundable fee to list on Frontier. The airline portion appears to be fully refundable, the listing tool fee appears to not be.

Ah good to know. Thanks for the info! Cheers
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:05 pm

Quoting Dallas (Reply 3):
on you guys roundtrip

Some of us have a discussed IAG as a possible destination form TTN. IAG has $500,000 (1/2 million) SCASD Grant request under docket OST-2014-0113 (file 0030) OST-2014-0113;fp=true;ns=true" target="_blank">http://www.regulations.gov/#!searchR...=0;s=OST-2014-0113;fp=true;ns=true IAG match is $150,000

Their twenty page application seems to promote their new terminal capability of supporting a 747 They're not chasing a specific airline but want to use to money to woo potential suitors.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
LoudounHound
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:22 am

Anybody on one of the new flights to/from IAD today? Would love to hear any observations.
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:35 am

Frontier management team were good sports today as they did the ALS Ice Bucket Challenge. For those who have been living under a rock, the Ice Bucket Challenge is where people film themselves dumping a bucket of ice water over their head to raise awareness for ALS also known as Lou Gehrig's disease and challenge atleast 3 people to do it as well. It is put it on Youtube,Facebook. or Twitter. It has really taken off with celebrities such as Matt Lauer from the Today show, Bill Gates and Charlie Sheen doing the challenge to name a few. Its raised over $22 million dollars in donations over the past 3 weeks due to the awareness. For more details you can go to the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Bucket_Challenge,

In any event I have to give them credit as they have done one of the best IBCs I've seen and actually used a bucket of ice (most people used "ice water" but you don't know what the temperature of the water is but ice there is no doubt its frozen).
Only problem I have with the stunt is when challenging the 3 people to do it they promoted their new IAD service (by nominating people related to the DC area) which I find to be a bit cheesy.

Frontier Airlines execs that did it were: Dave Seigel (CEO), Barry Biffle (President), Daniel Schurz (SVP/Commerical) and Bill Mehad(?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtsReZlhSmI

[Edited 2014-08-19 19:36:53]
 
smoot4208
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:58 am

Looks like something funny is going on with ILG. All flights after 10/25 are showing as soldout except ILG-MCO. ILG-TPA is bookable again in early December. Possibly suspending service earlier than expected or discontinuing the other routes.

[Edited 2014-08-20 19:06:58]

[Edited 2014-08-20 19:17:14]
 
runningonempty
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:10 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 16):

Yeah I think this is the beginning to a probable end to ILG. To Frontier management, it's kind of lost its luster. Loads haven't been stellar and there hasn't been too much growth opportunity. Florida bound flights don't do too bad but other than that, I think F9 wants their planes elsewhere. Oh well.
 
jeepyjeep
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 16):

I'm not sure about that, actually. I noticed today that someone asked a question on the Frontier Facebook page regarding all flights from DRO-DEN showing as sold out after a specific date, yet connecting flights from DRO that connect through DEN to somewhere else are still showing as available. This might just be another website glitch.

I love my current job, but sometimes I wish I could go work for Frontier and help to fix the website. I'm passionate about web development and usability.  
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:04 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 17):
Yeah I think this is the beginning to a probable end to ILG. To Frontier management, it's kind of lost its luster. Loads haven't been stellar and there hasn't been too much growth opportunity. Florida bound flights don't do too bad but other than that, I think F9 wants their planes elsewhere. Oh well.

Anything is possible, of course, but I think that would be a pity, and I'm not sure why they'd can ILG-Florida.

Even if ILG is only Florida - and/or other warm weather ports in winter - it seems to have value, not unlike Southwest at ISP.

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RL757PVD
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 17):
Loads haven't been stellar

I can assure you that has not been the case, the only route that is not averaging above 90% for the entire summer is DTW
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
runningonempty
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:43 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 20):

I meant to say yields. DTW is a flop, but I don't think F9 is going to keep a A320 (which they are in great demand of) to do LTD flying to a few Florida destinations. They may still serve ILG but with Denver and looping some IAD florida flying to continue through to ILG and back (like IAD-RSW-ILG-RSW-IAD). ILG is not a strong market like TTN and they know that. Their only two non seasonal markets are operated at some points once a week. Frontier were growing TTN and ILG simultaneously and maybe just didn't take as much care to Wilmington. ILG = Lackluster Will service continue? Probably, but I think they'd be wasting money leaving an A320 stationed there.


On a completely separate note, I'm very excited for TTN and their new NAS and especially PBI service, and I'm really hoping they do well. I'm pretty sure PBI will succeed, I have my doubts about NAS.... But new service for TTN is good after the cuts to some midwest destinations.

[Edited 2014-08-21 13:47:02]
 
RL757PVD
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:47 pm

Atlanta service has been strong from the start and Chicago does well in the summer, so I am hoping that more than DEN can be seasonal from ILG.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:57 pm

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 21):
But new service for TTN is good after the cuts to some midwest destinations.

Most of the midwest cuts - that I'm aware of - are those going seasonal, which is, to some extent, a fleet issue.

Aircraft will be leaving the already constrained fleet in order to have the new seats installed - better do it in deep winter than in high summer.

Maybe the sessional reductions will be maintained, but I don't know that and very little in this winter schedule can be taken as indicative of what may happen next winter.

mariner

[Edited 2014-08-21 16:55:48]
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TZTriStar500
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:44 am

Speaking of new seats, does anyone know what seat type was chosen for slim lines? Also, I assume the 138 and 168 for the A319 and A320 will stay the same. I don't think either layout can do more dense without monument changes unless pitch goes down to 28"/29". I also assume LiveTV is a goner as I see some of the newer fleet acquisitions do not have it.
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n7371f
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:22 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 24):
Speaking of new seats, does anyone know what seat type was chosen for slim lines? Also, I assume the 138 and 168 for the A319 and A320 will stay the same. I don't think either layout can do more dense without monument changes unless pitch goes down to 28"/29". I also assume LiveTV is a goner as I see some of the newer fleet acquisitions do not have it.

Republic looked hard at removing one of the aft lavs on the 319's for 3 additional seats but there were numerous issues, least of which was money at the time.

There isn't much they can do aft of the overwing exit(s) unless they want to go 28-29. But forward of the exit they have some room depending on what they do with the four rows of Stretch.

Yes, LiveTV is a goner. And when Franke was with Spirit, they made it known internet was a waste. So there's that.
 
dbo861
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:43 am

What's going on at SUX right now for Frontier? Every flight for the next couple months is showing SOLD OUT. There's no way this is possible.
 
whereitswarm
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:41 am

The seat vendor is Acro.

Www.acro.aero.

Thats all the information i'm good for on that topic though.
 
point2point
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:25 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 22):
Atlanta service has been strong from the start and Chicago does well in the summer, so I am hoping that more than DEN can be seasonal from ILG.

Without ILG, F9 won't have any presence in the DEN-Philadelphia market........

 
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:38 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 28):
Without ILG, F9 won't have any presence in the DEN-Philadelphia market.......

I was thinking the same thing last night at least until TTN-DEN comes on line.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
joeljack
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 26):
What's going on at SUX right now for Frontier? Every flight for the next couple months is showing SOLD OUT. There's no way this is possible.

Everything after October 23rd is showing SOLD OUT. I'd say this is a good sign that service is ending October 23rd on this route.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:31 pm

F9 has added the Nassau dot to the route map http://www.flyfrontier.com/plan-book/routes-schedules/route-map
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
smoot4208
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:31 am

Confirmed. DEN-SUX 'seasonally ending' oct 24. No date has been determined if or when flights will resume next year.

http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/loc...6-3cd8-577e-8448-d6c923cfaf3d.html
 
rampart
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:13 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 17):
Yeah I think this is the beginning to a probable end to ILG. To Frontier management, it's kind of lost its luster. Loads haven't been stellar and there hasn't been too much growth opportunity. Florida bound flights don't do too bad but other than that, I think F9 wants their planes elsewhere. Oh well.

Sounds like the COS experiment that didn't work.

-Rampart
 
Jerseyguy
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting SCJ Article (Reply 32):
At the time, the move had virtually nothing to do with the airline's performance in Sioux City, where passenger loads regularly exceeded 75 percent

75% load factor pardon the pun SUX. AA needs to have a subsidy to keep air service. The times don't help the 645am departure and the 1155pm arrival. OMA is only 1 1/2 hours from SUX and the eastern portion of the catchment is close to DSM. Be happy that your getting Summer service or give F9 a subsidy to make it year round .
 
freakyrat
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:27 am

Heck SUX is worse than SBN was. The 11 month that Frontier was there averaged out to 81% load factor, January and February were terrible at only 60% if that. March was 84% April was about 82% May-August had load factors in the low-mid 90's and some flights were completely full. If Frontier didn't have their small fleet spread so thin, I'm sure they could return seasonally. But where F9 really screwed up on SBN-DEN is they started the service near the end of Notre Dame Football season so they missed that traffic. They had bang-up business during Spring Break and did very well on the college graduation weekends but they ended the service prior to the start of Notre Dame Football season so they screwed up there. Since they were receiving a subsidy they never priced the flights to make an adequate profit. They did make a small profit however excluding the subsidy based on average fares in the market but that was not sustainable during the slow first qtr. I don't feel to bad because Frontier recently pulled out of CID and BMI during the winter months and their load factors especially CID were only slightly better than SBN.

Here is a little history lesson about SBN-DEN. When United flew the route right after deregulation with B727-100 they would average about 65 passengers on the flight which would leave SBN for DEN about 4:30 in the afternoon afar arriving from DEN and going to FWA and back to SBN. They even tried SBN-PIA-DEN and couldn't get it to work. Frontier however was flying a fuel efficient Airbus A319 and on the months from March-September was averaging 118 to 135 passengers per flight.

Frontier definitely stimulated demand in the market. They also were stealing 20-30% of United's traffic during the spring and summer months. They provided a reliable flight operation and a better connecting experience over Denver vs United at O'Hare and didn't hurt Delta whose DGS unit did their ground servicing. They are welcome back anytime.
 
iowaman
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:54 am

CID is now showing as seasonal, ending Jan. 5. I may be wrong but I don't remember this being seasonal in the past.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 32):
Confirmed. DEN-SUX 'seasonally ending' oct 24. No date has been determined if or when flights will resume next year.

Very unfortunate to see SUX go. They will be back to just American Eagle to ORD. NW flew MSP-SUX for years on Saabs and CRJ's.
 
freakyrat
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:19 am

According to some of the DGS folks at SBN the only real reason F9 did pull out was( with the exception of January and February) not for the lack of passengers but at the time the sale was going thru to Indigo and the fact that they had just a shortage of aircraft and still do and had better places to put the airplane.
 
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mariner
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RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:21 am

Quoting iowaman (Reply 36):
CID is now showing as seasonal, ending Jan. 5. I may be wrong but I don't remember this being seasonal in the past.

New owners - new priorities.

There are a lot of things in play, and partly it is the fleet issue and the installation of new seats. which will constrain an already constrained fleet even more. But - as above - better to do it in deep winter than high summer.

There's more. Indigo didn't buy Frontier for what it was - it bought the airline for it believed the airline could be. A lot of the old rules don't apply.

It's probably best to throw away any legacy concepts of constancy or frequency because the guiding line appears to be - fly where people want to go BUT only when they want to go there.

And with the best will in the world, it is tough to imagine some of the smaller stations - or even some of the larger ones - getting great loads in the winter, but seasonality may be the key to them.

There's another priority - that Frontier be profitable in 1Q, deep winter, which hasn't happened for a very long time. Thus the almost exponential increase in north/south snowbird flying.

The most obvious (and dramatic) evidence of the changed priorities is the route map, with the present concentration on primary airports, and, especially, the willingness to take on the competition. I assume there will be some ructions and not every route will work, but Bill Franke is an old hand and that's happened before.

Indigo seems to have embraced TTN - although with the same rules, as above - but ILG is being reimagined and I would be surprised if the next focus city (assuming there is one) is at a tertiary or even secondary airport.

DEN is still the heart of the airline (I saw a good photo of the hangar being repainted last week) but, as San Menke said years ago, there has to be more to Frontier than DEN.

I imagine there will be tears (already are) at some airports who will feel hard done by, but fasten your seats belts, I say - it isn't going to be dull.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
jeepyjeep
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:13 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 38):
Indigo seems to have embraced TTN - although with the same rules, as above - but ILG is being reimagined and I would be surprised if the next focus city (assuming there is one) is at a tertiary or even secondary airport.

I've been thinking a lot about this, too. I've noticed as well that it seems like Frontier management is now concentrating on primary airports, like CLE, STL, IAD, and perhaps somewhat unintentionally, ATL and MCO. I'm hoping, however, like Spirit, that there is still room for some secondary or even tertiary airports -- sort of like how Spirit is in a lot of major airports, yet also still serves Latrobe, PA and Plattsburgh, NY.

For selfish reasons, I really hope the MDT service can stay, and maybe even grow.

Either way, it's definitely an exciting time!

[Edited 2014-08-24 07:28:45]
 
airlinewatcher1
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 38):
(I saw a good photo of the hangar being repainted last week)


Mind sharing with us that photo?
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:12 pm

Per Frontier's website, DEN-SUX says 'discontinued after October 24' while DRO and the ILG routes just say seasonally end. Looks like SUX is a goner. SUX makes sense IMO for UA or for Frontier when it was an LCC, but not in the ULCC model. With low fares already at OMA and FSD, and more frequency and destinations, SUX faces an uphill battle.

DEN-LIT is also discontinued after October 25th.

[Edited 2014-08-24 10:22:08]
 
jeepyjeep
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:13 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 41):
Per Frontier's website, DEN-SUX says 'discontinued after October 24' while DRO and the ILG routes just say seasonally end.

Interesting -- just noticed that DEN-MDT loses the Wednesday frequency in November and early December, so it goes down to 3x/week. I think the Wednesday frequency had been an A320 instead of the A319, so maybe it has to do with replacing seats. From what I've heard, DEN-MDT does very well.

Also looks like service between DEN-EUG is discontinued after January 5th. (vs. seasonal)
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 38):
The most obvious (and dramatic) evidence of the changed priorities is the route map, with the present concentration on primary airports, and, especially, the willingness to take on the competition.


CLE-LAS going to daily - and RSW - and CLE-PHX to 4 x weekly - despite American and Southwest jumping on the route.

CLE-MCO goes to double daily most days. More north/south snowbirds.

It will be interesting too see if Southwest brings back their seasonal CLE-MCO/RSW.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
runningonempty
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:04 pm

Another cut that may have been mentioned is the cut to TTN-BNA on Jan. 5th. It is upsetting to see because that was a route that looked like it had a possibility to do well, and the loads don't seem like CLE or MSY (going way back) horrific. They probably just didn't get good yields. So what really bothers me is the once weekly service IAD-CUN. There is a larger market and Limiting the once weekly really narrows down the possible pax.
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:24 am

Quoting RunningOnEmpty (Reply 44):
Another cut that may have been mentioned is the cut to TTN-BNA on Jan. 5th. It is upsetting to see because that was a route that looked like it had a possibility to do well, and the loads don't seem like CLE or MSY (going way back) horrific. They probably just didn't get good yields. So what really bothers me is the once weekly service IAD-CUN. There is a larger market and Limiting the once weekly really narrows down the possible pax.

Not only that. TTN-DTW/CVG also are discontinued after Jan 5. TTN-BNA/CLE/CVG/DTW all appear to bite the dust, MKE, MSP, STL all say seasonal for now.
 
Buddys747
Posts: 312
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:33 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting Jeepyjeep-
Interesting -- just noticed that DEN-MDT loses the Wednesday frequency in November and early December, so it goes down to 3x/week. I think the Wednesday frequency had been an A320 instead of the A319, so maybe it has to do with replacing seats. From what I've heard, DEN-MDT does very well.


The Wednesday turn was unique in that Tuesday evening the plane came in from CUN to PHL, then Wednesday morning did a short positioning hop to MDT then onto DEN. Then Wednesday afternoon a flight from DEN to MDT, then another short positioning hop to PHL for Apple flight. The Apple flights are done in November, I guess they would rather use the plane else where. Kind of disappointed reducing it to 3x weekly, the flights do well.
 
smoot4208
Posts: 595
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:39 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:19 am

Also appears that IAD-CLE/DTW/MSP are discontinued after Jan 5.
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:13 am

Damn F9 is cutting routes like a machete cutting through the jungle.   
 
runningonempty
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:04 am

RE: New Frontier Part 47

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:33 am

DEN-EUG is axed too in January. Could this be because they are retrofitting their planes, or maybe to drop a few old 319s for 320s. JAC-DEN is discontinued in September.... It is seasonal but discounted sounds like they could be done.

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