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Alaska And SLC
Just a curios question: With Alaska starting several new routes in SLC-how are they doing? Anyone think additional flights or cities will be added?
RE: Alaska And SLC
SEA has done really well. Up to 3x AS and 1x OO per day. Would not be surprised to see this go all AS and perhaps 5x next summer.
I believe the other routes are doing okay, but I have been told the SFO/ SJC flights continue to go empty.
ANC would probably be next, but AS has already stated that route is unlikely.
I believe the other routes are doing okay, but I have been told the SFO/ SJC flights continue to go empty.
ANC would probably be next, but AS has already stated that route is unlikely.
"When you go out to battle against your enemies and see horses and chariots and people more numerous than you, do not be afraid of them; for the LORD your God is with you." Deuteronomy 20:1
RE: Alaska And SLC
Doing well enough that I don't see any major changes to the schedule. AS has definitely got their foot in the door in SLC.
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting SEAtown (Reply 1): but I have been told the SFO/ SJC flights continue to go empty |
Yes, I don't see how they will last. Eastbound timings are bad. (9PM departures from the Bay) They have no connection feed on either end and depend solely on O and D traffic. Westbound SLC-SJC, however, does a bit better with connections feeding Hawaii and Cabo.
Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
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- 32andBelow
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RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting SEAtown (Reply 1): ANC would probably be next, but AS has already stated that route is unlikely. |
No way. DL has a 757 on the route when they need to. Connecting in SEA is not out of the way, and connecting in SLC on AS is a non starter. Connecting in SLC on DL makes way more sense if you need to travel elsewhere.
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 3): Yes, I don't see how they will last. Eastbound timings are bad. (9PM departures from the Bay) They have no connection feed on either end and depend solely on O and D traffic. |
Yeah, I think AS should switch those flights to something more useful like SJC-FLL, SJC-AUS or SJC-BOS that have a better chance of success.
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 2): Doing well enough that I don't see any major changes to the schedule. AS has definitely got their foot in the door in SLC. |
I believe SLC-SJC is doing terribly. Loads under 50 passengers are common. First class going out empty. It is bleeding money. It would be cheaper to leave the 737 on the ground overnight in SJC. SLC-SFO appears to be doing better but I doubt that it is earning money.
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 3): Yes, I don't see how they will last. Eastbound timings are bad. (9PM departures from the Bay) They have no connection feed on either end and depend solely on O and D traffic. Westbound SLC-SJC, however, does a bit better with connections feeding Hawaii and Cabo. |
The timing is to use an airplane that would otherwise be on the ground overnight in SJC. They are not going after connections. Their only point is to offer a bunch of cheap seats on the route to hurt Delta margins. It is retribution for Delta getting in on markets from SEA and hurting AS' margins.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5): Yeah, I think AS should switch those flights to something more useful like SJC-FLL, SJC-AUS or SJC-BOS that have a better chance of success. |
AS could not operate any of those routes with the utilization that they have. SJC-SLC and SFO-SLC use an airplane that would otherwise be sitting on the ground overnight. FLL, AUS or BOS would affect the rest of the operation more and would not be as much of a sign to DL since they are not routes where DL competes.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5): Yeah, I think AS should switch those flights to something more useful like SJC-FLL, SJC-AUS or SJC-BOS that have a better chance of success. |
I agree, these little shorthaul squabbles are not turning any heads and probably only hurting themselves more than DL. I'd much rather see them focus on an SFO-ANC and an SJC-Transcon, I think FLL or MCO would be a simply massive leisure success.
...On side note, any chance of an ANC-CTS on their MAX 8's when they get them? (~3000 Miles).
RE: Alaska And SLC
If any were dropped I'd guess LAS and LAX. They need to allocate a SNA slot for SLC and drop a SEA flight until SNA takes applications for slot distribution next year.
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 5): Yeah, I think AS should switch those flights to something more useful like SJC-FLL, SJC-AUS or SJC-BOS that have a better chance of success. |
Unfortunately Boeing Guy, we won't see any additional growth here in SJC for sometime.
| Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6): The timing is to use an airplane that would otherwise be on the ground overnight in SJC. They are not going after connections. Their only point is to offer a bunch of cheap seats on the route to hurt Delta margins. It is retribution for Delta getting in on markets from SEA and hurting AS' margins. |
Yes, I'm quite aware of all of that. The only time the SJC-SLC is even close to full is Sunday evening, and even then the majority of customers have purchased sale fares.
| Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6): It would be cheaper to leave the 737 on the ground overnight in SJC |
Tom in SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
RE: Alaska And SLC
If the Bay Area-SLC flights are not doing well, perhaps AS will be able to scrape together an entire airplane to run a couple of daytime r/t flights from both SFO and SJC. Right now they use virtually no a/c time -- using planes that RON in both Bay Area airports -- but if that just isn't working, then perhaps they can find a way to change the schedules. I suspect there's perhaps enough slack in the mainline fleet to work in 4, 2-hour flights to make those flights more attractive.
Of course if AS is going to continue to pour just about everything with they have with wings and 2 engines into new SEA-service, that scenario probably isn't going to happen.
I would hate to see AS dump any SLC-markets but I can't see them continuing all of those routes IF some are performing as dismally as some posters seem to think.
bb
Of course if AS is going to continue to pour just about everything with they have with wings and 2 engines into new SEA-service, that scenario probably isn't going to happen.
I would hate to see AS dump any SLC-markets but I can't see them continuing all of those routes IF some are performing as dismally as some posters seem to think.
bb
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6): I believe SLC-SJC is doing terribly. Loads under 50 passengers are common. First class going out empty. It is bleeding money. It would be cheaper to leave the 737 on the ground overnight in SJC. SLC-SFO appears to be doing better but I doubt that it is earning money. |
Not to change the subject and I know this would require some schedule rearrangement but swapping either OMA-SEA or COS-SEA to a 737 vs CR7 and then change SLC-SJC to a CR7 might improve things all around. I see that OMA-SEA is averaging 95% loads the past several months and COS-SEA is 80%-90% for the most recent data in April and May. (stats per OMA and COS airport websites)
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 14): Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 11): Unfortunately Boeing Guy, we won't see any additional growth here in SJC for sometime. Why not? |
Any available or new metal is going into the SEA market for the time being.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
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- mikesairways
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RE: Alaska And SLC
While I love and will take any SJC service we can get, this still doesn't make sense. By the way, slightly off topic, but did anybody else see this sneak in to the press releases today:
LAS-MHT using Horizon DH8's?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/play-s...ka-airlines-between-120000064.html
LAS-MHT using Horizon DH8's?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/play-s...ka-airlines-between-120000064.html
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting mikesairways (Reply 16): LAS-MHT using Horizon DH8's? |
All the way from Vegas to New Hampshire on a Q-400. That is just torture. Just teasing you man.... I think you meant MMH
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting mikesairways (Reply 16): LAS-MHT using Horizon DH8's? |
Interesting. That explains it... I knew that the SAN-MMH flight was not oping daily after December this year, and there was something funky happening with the advanced winter schedules, so I guess AS figured out something to do with that idle plane. Hope it works for them.
bb
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- mikesairways
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RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting LV (Reply 17): All the way from Vegas to New Hampshire on a Q-400. That is just torture. Just teasing you man.... I think you meant MMH |
Doh!!! - 100 points for me ;-(
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
RE: Alaska And SLC
If SJC - SLC is doing badly, and they want to utilize the metal in the evening, why not use it to somewhere in SoCal?
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting AirFiero (Reply 20): If SJC - SLC is doing badly, and they want to utilize the metal in the evening, why not use it to somewhere in SoCal? |
My personal preference would to be to use the aircraft on a red eye SJC-MEX to compliment the GDL service, or at least alternate MEX and GDL nightly, but we won't be seeing that either.
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
RE: Alaska And SLC
How are the loads on SLC - BOI? As expected, DL fares on that route soared after WN dropped it. Was nice to see some new competition
RE: Alaska And SLC
LAS-SLC loads have been terrible. But remember if you believe AS, the Q400 can make $ at half loads depending on fuel.
RE: Alaska And SLC
The Horizon LAS-SLC-BOI service never made any sense to me. LAS-SLC has competition from both WN and DL, and SLC-BOI has 5x daily on DL. AS has virtually no feed at any of these airports, and obviously they don't compete on frequency. Horizon seems to struggle even with operating the SLC-BOI flight. I can't see it as anything other than retaliation.
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 21): My personal preference would to be to use the aircraft on a red eye SJC-MEX to compliment the GDL service, or at least alternate MEX and GDL nightly, but we won't be seeing that either. |
Sure, that would be great, but would there be enough time to do that turn, and have the aircraft back where they want it in the morning?
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- tylersmithsjc
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RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 21): My personal preference would to be to use the aircraft on a red eye SJC-MEX to compliment the GDL service, or at least alternate MEX and GDL nightly, but we won't be seeing that either. |
MEX does seem like a long shot although I think the next Mexican Destination will be served by either Y4 or AM.
AS is really shooting themselves in the foot here trying to go up against an airline as large as DL is at SLC. Even though they are utilizing the aircraft it doesn't make sense if the aircraft is half full.
SJC/CLD
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 15): Any available or new metal is going into the SEA market for the time being. |
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 21): My personal preference would to be to use the aircraft on a red eye SJC-MEX to compliment the GDL service, or at least alternate MEX and GDL nightly, but we won't be seeing that either. |
I was just going to suggest this. I think adding SJC-MEX could do wonderfully in addition to the SJC-GDL flight. I was hoping we'd see it added over the last couple of years as Volaris doesn't seem interested in adding an additional flight to their SJC schedule, and AM doesn't seem to want to start SJC.
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting AirFiero (Reply 26): Sure, that would be great, but would there be enough time to do that turn, and have the aircraft back where they want it in the morning? |
Yes, the GDL-SJC aircraft arrives at 8am and usually makes up a Hawaii departure. (Same with the SLC-SJC aircraft)
| Quoting tylersmithsjc (Reply 27): MEX does seem like a long shot although I think the next Mexican Destination will be served by either Y4 or AM |
IMHO, I think MEX could work 3-4 times a week from SJC. The GDL flight carries quite a bit of connection traffic to MEX, due to the codeshare with AM. I am wondering, however, how much longer the AS/AM codeshare will be around due to DL's deep investment in AM? As far as Y4 goes, I could see them perhaps expanding to MLM from SJC, due to the large amount fo VFR traffic to that area from the Bay, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Tom SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting EIPremier (Reply 25): The Horizon LAS-SLC-BOI service never made any sense to me. LAS-SLC has competition from both WN and DL, and SLC-BOI has 5x daily on DL. |
There is a lot of traffic between BOI and SLC. However, DL drove up the pricing on the route after WN left, so making the 4+ hour drive became more appealing. I'm sure most of the people on those DL flights have become connecting traffic.
| Quoting EIPremier (Reply 25): AS has virtually no feed at any of these airports, and obviously they don't compete on frequency |
AS has a decent sized operation at BOI, so they have plenty of frequent fliers in the market. They are obviously catering to people who are trying to get to SLC, not people looking to connect
RE: Alaska And SLC
| Quoting msp747 (Reply 30): There is a lot of traffic between BOI and SLC. However, DL drove up the pricing on the route after WN left, so making the 4+ hour drive became more appealing. I'm sure most of the people on those DL flights have become connecting traffic. |
AS & QX have done a splendid job in driving down many fares in SLC after WN gave up on them. I just booked a flight at Delta.com for YYJ-SEA-SLC via QX and DL and figure that pi$$ing contest is yielding more low fares. For a 7 night stay it was only $379 (USD)/$413 (CAD). With $114 in taxes the yields can't be any good for either carrier. Question is does AS or DL blink 1st?
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