Once upon a time, Mexicana flew direct between YYC and MEX. However, since Mexicana ceased operations, there are no direct flights. To reach MEX, one typically flies through YYZ, YVR, or through various hubs in the United States. Here are my thoughts on why I think this route is a business opportunity, currently being missed.

• in Calgary, there is a large population of people from Mexico, as well as many other from Central and South America. MEX is a major city in itself, as well as a major gateway to elsewhere in Central and South America. Many of these people would be happy to avoid the potential hassles of flying through the United States

• with the privatization of oil in Mexico, there is every likelihood of increased business traffic between YYC and MEX

• YYC must have some slots opening up, with the new parallel runway now open, and the new international terminal opening soon

• an A319, A320, B737, or B738 would be able to fly this route. No widebodies or ETOPS required. This opens up possibilities for the Mexican LCC's.

Has anyone heard any rumours of airlines considering this route? Any other thoughts about the viability of such a route, for or against?

Quoting aerolimani (Thread starter): Once upon a time, Mexicana flew direct between YYC and MEX.

Canadian Pacific also operated YYC-MEX nonstop for a few years in the 1960s/70s although just once a week on a DC-8 as an intermediate stop on one of the YVR-MEX-LIM-SCL-EZE flights. That was the first flight I was ever offloaded from when flying nonrev during my first year with CP in YYC sometime in 1970. Decided to go to MEX for the weekend (the flight left YYC Friday around 1700) but unfortunately the flight left 100% full.

Most O&D traffic from YYC to Mexico is to the resort destinations (Puerto Vallarta, Cancun etc.) not to MEX. I don't think it would be very lucrative as a scheduled destination.

[Edited 2014-08-18 20:24:19]

Viscount is right. The resort destinations in Mexico get steady traffic from YYC. I am not sure of Mexicana's loads on the YYC-MEX route. I imagine Aeromexico could be limited by its fleet size to be able to add the route. Other Mexican carriers lack the critical mass size to provide the service also.

I am sure the Mexicana's flight had several connections to the beaches. Back in the day there wasn't much International flying from the low-cost carriers in both USA or Canada.

You should write to some Minisitry in Ottawa and ask them to drop their ridiculous requirement of a VISA for Mexicans. That is the main reason most of MX´s routes to Canada and back became unprofitable all of a sudden. It was not because MX disappeared.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4): You should write to some Minisitry in Ottawa and ask them to drop their ridiculous requirement of a VISA for Mexicans. That is the main reason most of MX´s routes to Canada and back became unprofitable all of a sudden. It was not because MX disappeared.

Yes, that is a HUGE reason.

Also I could have sworn I saw Aeromexico 737's here in YYC back around the time MX was serving YYC. Can anyone confirm?

Quoting c172akula (Reply 5): Also I could have sworn I saw Aeromexico 737's here in YYC back around the time MX was serving YYC. Can anyone confirm?

Probably a charter flight full of Mexican migrant workers. I doubt that both AM and MX served YYC at the same time.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4): ask them to drop their ridiculous requirement of a VISA

Although the visa issue does create challenges, AC seems to be doing fine on YVR- MEX, and so is AM on YUL-MEX. If demand was there for YYC-MEX, AM, AC or WS would be on it. Maybe in a few years time.

Thenoflyone

[Edited 2014-08-19 10:02:33]

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4): You should write to some Minisitry in Ottawa and ask them to drop their ridiculous requirement of a VISA for Mexicans. That is the main reason most of MX´s routes to Canada and back became unprofitable all of a sudden. It was not because MX disappeared.

The visa is the main reason why a tier of flights FROM Mexico (Mexican carriers) to secondary cities, that also I believe included Quebec and Edmonton, came and went a few years ago. Mexico was one of the fastest growing sources of non-U.S. international tourists to Canada up until the visa requirement. The number in 2012 was up 80% over 2000 levels.

The visa requirement wasn't put into place for no reason though. There were more than 12,000 refugee claims, most of which would not be approved but Canada's refugee system traditionally has been open to exploitation.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 7): The visa is the main reason why a tier of flights FROM Mexico (Mexican carriers) to secondary cities, that also I believe included Quebec and Edmonton, came and went a few years ago.

I know MX launched 3 weekly MEX-YEG back in june 2008, (didn't last long, til January 2010) but as far as YQB is concerned, those flights were charters for Mexican migrant workers. Nothing to do with tourism. They used to fly in, work in the farms and fields a week or two and then fly back.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-08-19 09:35:13]

Quoting aerolimani (Thread starter): in Calgary, there is a large population of people from Mexico,

Mexico is a big nation, similar to Canada.

Where are these Mexican diaspora's from?

For example on the US West Coast, Jalisco state tends to be a big driver of migrants, hence lots of service to Guadalajara.

At the end of the day a MEX flight might be useless for these migrants. A bit like saying all the Canadians in Mexico need a MEX-YYZ flight.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9): Mexico is a big nation, similar to Canada.

Uh, no, but I get what you're saying.

Quoting aerolimani (Thread starter): • YYC must have some slots opening up, with the new parallel runway now open, and the new international terminal opening soon

Was never "slot restricted", rather just a little 'bunged up' a couple/few times a day mid-week. Enormous overcapacity now with the new runway. It's lovely.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 8): I know MX launched 3 weekly MEX-YEG back in june 2008, (didn't last long, til January 2010)

...shared with the 4 weekly YYC flight. After YEG ended, I think they exclusively flew YYC 5x week. Apparently, the flights to both cities were 80+ LF's but MX was already bleeding prior to this and were already in their death throes when the flights were culled (along with what became their ultimate demise soon after).

My memory is porous at best but I think there was indeed a little overlap between MX and AM flights. AM would've been once per week from either GDL or MTY, and routed XXX-YYC-YEG-XXX. Sometimes they sent up a 757 which was a nice change from the more usual 737.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1): Most O&D traffic from YYC to Mexico is to the resort destinations (Puerto Vallarta, Cancun etc.) not to MEX. I don't think it would be very lucrative as a scheduled destination.

DL & AM have tried it out of SLC for years off and on and are trying it again in December. Unless WS joins SkyTeam, I don't see it being very likely.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 8): I know MX launched 3 weekly MEX-YEG back in june 2008, (didn't last long, til January 2010) but as far as YQB is concerned, those flights were charters for Mexican migrant workers. Nothing to do with tourism. They used to fly in, work in the farms and fields a week or two and then fly back.

Makes sense. The influx to Canada generally wasn't just migrant workers though. That wouldn't explain Quebec City, for example.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9): Mexico is a big nation, similar to Canada.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 10): Uh, no, but I get what you're saying.

  
Yeah… not quite on the same scale, but I too get what you're driving at.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1): Most O&D traffic from YYC to Mexico is to the resort destinations (Puerto Vallarta, Cancun etc.) not to MEX. I don't think it would be very lucrative as a scheduled destination.

I do understand that Calgarians going to Mexico are almost exclusively resort tourists, thus headed for the likes Cancun, Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan, etc. It's too bad that most Canadians don't realize what an incredible cultural destination Mexico City really is. There is a long and rich history, beautiful architecture in the historic centre, incredible art collections, enough museums to keep you busy for at least a month, and INCREDIBLE food.

So, yes, most traffic from YYC is leisure. However, my theory is that business traffic is about to increase. With Mexico's imminent privatization of its oil industry, business traffic may be about to pick up between MEX and YYC. Almost all of Canada's major energy companies are headquartered in Calgary, and MEX is where they will want to go, to do business in Mexico.

My other thought is what I perceive as a missed opportunity. I think there's a case for flying non-Mexican Latin Americans much more conveniently to their destinations. For Latin Americans living in (or visiting) Calgary, who are not Canadian citizens, flying through the States can be quite the immigration/visa hassle. Connections through YVR or YYZ are definitely expensive, and often time-consuming. MEX has frequent (and often more affordable) connections to almost everywhere else in Latin America. Similarly, this routing could be convenient for Calgarian tourists wishing to travel to South America.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 12): Makes sense. The influx to Canada generally wasn't just migrant workers though. That wouldn't explain Quebec City, for example.

  

Indeed, I have some Mexican friends who are here doing graduate studies at the university. Also, there are definitely highly educated "migrant workers" in Calgary, on one and two year contracts in the energy industry; jobs in areas like controls and instrumentation engineering, geology, and geophysics. Something quite different from farm labour.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 12): Makes sense. The influx to Canada generally wasn't just migrant workers though. That wouldn't explain Quebec City, for example.

No, your right, but as far as the tourist market between Quebec and Mexico goes, MX had MEX-YUL covered with up to 10 weekly service during peak season. Generally speaking, a separate scheduled flight to YQB wasn't required, as tourists who visit Montreal usually drive up to see YQB as well.

Even when MX went bust, AC quickly stepped in and upped YUL-MEX to daily. When it cancelled the service altogether, that's when AM stepped in to fill the void.

Still AM's only footprint in Canada, which I find weird. Maybe they want to avoid competing head to head with AC.

All the more reason for an eventual AM MEX-YYC.

Thenoflyzone

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6): AC seems to be doing fine on YVR- MEX,

It helps that YVR is a major transpacific hub. AC YVR-MEX-YVR flights are scheduled to connect with virtually all their Asian flights.

Personally I think AC would be better advised to begin YUL-MEX nonstop service than YYC-MEX. Whenever I visit YUL I'm surprised by the increasing number of people speaking Spanish.

According to the last Canadian census, the metro YUL area has roughly 5 times as many residents whose mother tongue is Spanish than YYC, and they're almost all from Latin America, not Spain. Apart from Canada's national languages, the only mother tongue with more speakers in Montreal than Spanish is Arabic, with Italian close behind Spanish. All 3 have well over 100,000 Montreal residents each.

In YYC there are more immigrants from each of the Philippines, India and China (including HKG) than from all Spanish-speaking countries combined.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6): Probably a charter flight full of Mexican migrant workers. I doubt that both AM and MX served YYC at the same time.

Or to the beach? Many U.S. cities that are not destinations served by AM on a regularly-scheduled basis get AM charter service on behalf of holiday companies. Maybe this is the case in Canada too?

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 6): Maybe in a few years time.

Maybe sooner than that. Lots of opportunities in the oil and gas will open up for foreign investors. As a matter of fact, as of today, there exists a market for Calgary - D.F./Reynosa/Villahermosa air travel. Calgary oil services and technology companies have made business in Mexico even prior to the passing of these reforms.

Quoting aerolimani (Reply 13): calgarians going to Mexico are almost exclusively resort tourists

Maybe the majority, but not almost exclusively I would say.

Quoting aerolimani (Thread starter): in Calgary, there is a large population of people from Mexico, as well as many other from Central and South America. MEX is a major city in itself, as well as a major gateway to elsewhere in Central and South America. Many of these people would be happy to avoid the potential hassles of flying through the United States

I would like to disagree here because I don't understand what's wrong if they want to get to the rest of the continent through MEX when both IAH and DFW are offering a better connectivity. In that case, the fictitious YYC-MEX must operate on a daily basis before, but that possibility is extremely low from the very beginning.
For example, AC MEX-YVR 7x daily with 319 is likely rather oriented to the O&D demand between Vancouver and Mexico.

Regards.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 14): Still AM's only footprint in Canada, which I find weird. Maybe they want to avoid competing head to head with AC.

I'd expect to see AM back at YYZ the moment the visa requirement is removed.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 17): For example, AC MEX-YVR 7x daily with 319 is likely rather oriented to the O&D demand between Vancouver and Mexico.

You mean 1 x daily (or 7 x weekly). Also Asia connections as already mentioned.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19): You mean 1 x daily (or 7 x weekly

My mistake.
I meant AC YVR-MEX 7x weekly:

AC 996....YVR 14:10.....MEX 20:30........Daily......319
AC 997....MEX 06:30....YVR 10:15........Daily.......319

However, I hold my point concerning to few people from Calgary by traveling to Central and South America through MEX.

Regards.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15): According to the last Canadian census, the metro YUL area has roughly 5 times as many residents whose mother tongue is Spanish than YYC,

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15): Personally I think AC would be better advised to begin YUL-MEX nonstop service than YYC-MEX

Seems AC gave up on YUL-MEX 6 months after AM started competing on the route. That's unlike AC, not putting up a fight that is!

AC's schedule to MEX was geared more towards connections to and from Europe. But i guess that still wasn't enough to keep the route alive.

However, AM is better placed to operate the route, as it can provide onward feed across Latin america, to better serve the growing LatAm population of Montreal. Seems CM is doing the same with the launch of PTY-YUL a few months ago.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-08-19 21:53:57]

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 21): However, AM is better placed to operate the route, as it can provide onward feed across Latin america, to better serve the growing LatAm population of Montreal. Seems CM is doing the same with the launch of PTY-YUL a few months ago.

The problem with MEX as a connecting hub for the rest of Latin America from points like YYZ and YUL is that it's too far west. It's much further via MEX to anywhere in South America than other routings, for example YYZ-MEX-BOG is almost 50% further than nonstop. Connecting via PTY on CM is much shorter than via MEX. MEX only makes sense for some of the nearby points in Central America, and even to those points is shorter via MIA or IAH etc.

I'd like to comment on many things that have been expressed in this thread:

Quoting aerolimani (Thread starter): MEX is a major city in itself

Absolutely, it is the largest city in all of North America. Just as a tourist destination, it is the city with the most museums in the world.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1): Most O&D traffic from YYC to Mexico is to the resort destinations

I agree with the "most" part, but that doesn't mean that all resorts are conveniently served from Canada, scheduled or chartered. Many Canadian tourists still have to go through MEX to get to some of their favorite places like PXM, ZLO, HUX, OAX, SZT(TGZ), etc.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4): requirement of a VISA for Mexicans. That is the main reason most of MX´s routes to Canada and back became unprofitable all of a sudden

I totally agree and this must have amounted for maybe half of the O&D traffic. Lets move away from only looking at the southbound perspective.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 7): The visa requirement wasn't put into place for no reason though. There were more than 12,000 refugee claims

Yep, but Canada had the open asylum/refugee system as an alternative, and the violence in Mexico justified SOME of its use for a time as there was nothing illegal in taking advantage from it. On the other side, Canada is losing about ten-fold that number in Mexican tourists. Ottawa's view, take, decision and right.

Quoting Cyeg66 (Reply 10): Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9): Mexico is a big nation, similar to Canada. Uh, no, but I get what you're saying

On this I'd say we're very different in size and population at least, but extremely similar in other ways. Canada has the largest territory, though frozen and empty in its vast majority. Mexico has the largest population but lacking the means for international travel in its vast majority. On the similar sides: Out of Mexico's 120 million strong population, I'd say that Mexico can afford to match the 35 million Canadians with another 35 million Mexicans that can afford the travels. On the GDP side, both countries are in the top 15 of the world with both averaging between 1 and 2 trillion USD a year. All of these with Mexico supplying about four times as many manufactured goods as it buys from Canada with oil, gas, minerals and natural goods amounting today for less than 15% of all trade. Of course, much of this is due to big Canadian investment in Mexico, like Bombardier.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16): Quoting aerolimani (Reply 13): calgarians going to Mexico are almost exclusively resort tourists Maybe the majority, but not almost exclusively I would say.

There are so many other reasons that I have witnessed: from cable producing for perforating in the oil industry to the Canadian retirees and their families in Mexico. Lets not forget (noting the proportions are very different) that Mexico is home to the second largest number of illegal Canadians after the US and also to the largest number of illegal US citizens out of the USA with also about 100 thousand legal Canadian migrants and 1 million legal American migrants.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22): The problem with MEX as a connecting hub for the rest of Latin America from points like YUL is that it's too far west.

Yes! Lets remember that as Wellington, NZ, is the eastermost (out of Greenwich) national capital in the world, Mexico City is the westernmost national capital in the world. Thus, leaving MEX as a convenient connecting city for Cuba, Central and South America only from AB and BC, excluding eastern Canada because of the westerly detour required.

During the no-visa-for-Mexicans times, not only did YVR had become a connecting point for Asia, but a cruise ship departure point and, with Victoria and Whistler, an extremely desired vacation destination for Mexicans along Calgary and Edmonton. I'm witness to thousands of Mexicans vacationing in summer and winter in Canada from coast to coast.

Not anymore. Who were they? They came from all ways of life, but many, went there because they didn't want the hazzle or couldn't afford the requirements for a US visa, but still wanted to enjoy visiting English (or French)-speaking North America. These kind of O&D traffic is now leaving Mexico for "friendlier/no-visa" destinations such as Colombia which has tripled its Mexican traffic since the Canadian visa imposition or for other close destinations like Cuba and Central America.

YYC - MEX Direct - Is There A Case For This Route? Not with a visa for Mexicans.

[Edited 2014-08-20 01:00:48]

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15): Personally I think AC would be better advised to begin YUL-MEX nonstop service than YYC-MEX. Whenever I visit YUL I'm surprised by the increasing number of people speaking Spanish. According to the last Canadian census, the metro YUL area has roughly 5 times as many residents whose mother tongue is Spanish than YYC, and they're almost all from Latin America, not Spain. Apart from Canada's national languages, the only mother tongue with more speakers in Montreal than Spanish is Arabic, with Italian close behind Spanish. All 3 have well over 100,000 Montreal residents each.

Montreal stands to gain a lot by expansion of transit without visa options as most if not all of the non-holiday south traffic between Montreal and Latin America currently flows through the U.S. If travellers from visa required countries in Latin America can connect through Canada without a visa to get to Europe/Asia, the transit traffic would improve the viability of direct links.

Quoting drgmobile (Reply 7): The visa requirement wasn't put into place for no reason though. There were more than 12,000 refugee claims, most of which would not be approved but Canada's refugee system traditionally has been open to exploitation.

Absolutely. I saw it coming back then. A bunch of ill-advised free loaders complicated matters for the lots of law-abiding citizens that used to enjoy visa-free travel to Canada.

Speaking of YYC. I think there will be a direct flight at some point. Most likely from AM since it won't be leisure travel, but VFR, business, and maybe some Mexico originated tourism.

I don't think the Visa will ever go away but neither are economic ties, so a sizeable group of Mexicans will end up with a multiple entry Canadian Visa at some point, making YYC viable.

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 23): Quoting AR385 (Reply 4): requirement of a VISA for Mexicans. That is the main reason most of MX´s routes to Canada and back became unprofitable all of a sudden I totally agree and this must have amounted for maybe half of the O&D traffic. Lets move away from only looking at the southbound perspective.

When I worked for MX back in the day, we were able to fill charters from MEX to YYC and YVR in the winter, with well to do Mexicans all bound for Banff and Whistler. The same held true to Tahoe via SFO and Vail through DEN.

Tomas SJC

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22): The problem with MEX as a connecting hub for the rest of Latin America from points like YYZ and YUL is that it's too far west.

Yes, MEX is only convenient as a transit point for West Coast Canada/USA on the one hand, and South America on the other hand.

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 23): Canada had the open asylum/refugee system as an alternative, and the violence in Mexico justified SOME of its use for a time as there was nothing illegal in taking advantage from it.

I believe this was abused by lots of Mexicans who simply thought it'd be best to move to Canada without them actually being persecuted. This is not what an asylum-friendly system is for. I certainly don't like the visa requirement because it complicates life to many fellow Mexicans who want to go to Canada, but it was certainly the right thing to do by the Canadian government in view of the flood of Mexicans who wanted to freeride for a while.

Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 23): There are so many other reasons that I have witnessed: from cable producing for perforating in the oil industry to the Canadian retirees and their families in Mexico.

That was exactly my point. Certainly tourism by Albertans in Mexico is the main reason for YYC-Mexico air service, but there are other sources as I have already mentioned:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 16): As a matter of fact, as of today, there exists a market for Calgary - D.F./Reynosa/Villahermosa air travel. Calgary oil services and technology companies have made business in Mexico even prior to the passing of these reforms.

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 21): CM is doing the same with the launch of PTY-YUL a few months ago.

  
CM PTY-YUL 4x weekly with 73G began on June 02nd and it was rapidly upgraded to 738 till August 31st.

Regards.

This thread is still open! And, here we are, with the visa requirement dropped, and AM starting daily MEX-YYC service on a B738 as of June 1, 2017.

Current thread: viewtopic.php?p=19232559

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... june-2017/

I'm still curious to find out who's filling up this plane. I have the same question for YVR-MEX.

I just don't see there being a whole lot of traffic, but I'm happy that they think they can make it work!

b6sea wrote:

I'm still curious to find out who's filling up this plane. I have the same question for YVR-MEX.

I just don't see there being a whole lot of traffic, but I'm happy that they think they can make it work!

Well… I recently flew YVR-MEX and MEX-YVR, so I can speak somewhat to that. Of course, my evidence is anecdotal at best, but from observation, I can guess at a few things. First… both flights were very full, and this is despite AM now competing on the same route with 10 flights/week, on a B738.

The flight to MEX appeared to be mostly filled with Mexican foreign workers; men mostly in their 30s and 40s. They were flying home with big bags, and tons of hand luggage including lots of toys/gifts.

The flight back north was very different. Most of the passengers were Latin American families. Upon arrival at YVR, and long before they reached the immigration hall, they were stopping to take photos of the falling snow, and the planes/apron covered in it.

As an interesting aside, my companion, who is fluent in Spanish, also detected different accents among the travellers on MEX-YVR. Besides Mexican, she heard Argentinian, Columbian, and Nicaraguan.

I too am curious to see who will be flying on the YYC-MEX flights. I have some theories, as already expressed in this thread. So far, AM has only released regular fares, so the price is quite high. Hopefully, they will post some discounted fares soon! I won't pay $1400 when connecting through YVR only costs $600-ish.

It is great that AM wil launch MEX-YYC nonstop. There should be a fair amount of oil & gas-driven traffic originating on both sides (probably more on the Canadian side), so that plus the V.F.R. passengers and a few tourists (connections) should keep it going.