delta88
Topic Author
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 7:35 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:34 pm

In light of a recent topic, I thought it would be better to post a new one. Why do major airlines keep older aircraft in Service? What is the Motivation or financial obligation for such operation? Is it simply cheaper to keep older ones in service and pay a little extra in gas? Is the cost of new airplanes simply to high for a major replacement? Parts costs? Labour? Im not bashing any particular aircraft and i feel that older aircraft perform just as well as new aircraft, but what is it about the MD-80, or the DC-9, Boeing 727, even the 737 Classic, Even the A300/A310. ( Please keep Iran and other nations with economic sacntions, or Airlines for political, economic, or other reasons, out of this thread.* This thread is not about why airlines CANT get new airplanes, Please and Thanks).

Edit:Noted with *

[Edited 2014-08-19 12:36:05]
B712,B738,B739,B752,B762ER,B763ER,B772ER,MD82,MD83,MD88,MD90,A320,CRJ9,CRJ2,EMJ145,ERJ175
 
kbmiflyer
Posts: 281
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:52 pm

Airlines are in the business of trying to make money. If it is cheaper to fly an older plane and pay the higher maintenance cost and fuel cost, then an older plane works. With the price of fuel getting so high, newer planes are usually a better option today. However, Boeing and Airbus can only build so many planes at a time. So many airlines are stuck flying older planes just to maintain capacity until they can get newer planes delivered.
 
DIJKKIJK
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 11:03 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:27 pm

Older airplanes are often cheaper to use. They have lower acquisition costs, and in in fleet, are usually paid for and so have lower overheads. For certain routes they can sometimes overcome the fuel cost factor, and can be economical to operate. As the previous poster mentioned, airlines are often forced to use old planes as new ones can take time to arrive.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
bharathkv
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:58 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:38 pm

CX is using 747 on HKG-SFO for quite sometime now. Soon it is replacing the 747 with 77W. I am quite sure 747 made financial sense for the airline for sometime now even though crude prices have been rising. Any thoughts?
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:40 pm

The technology divide is becoming ever greater, which will see older aircraft held onto for longer by low tech airlines, and newer, high tech aircraft parted earlier, as replaced.

Another driver is product liability insurance. Airframe and engine manufacturers withdraw or re-price consummable parts cap liability.

In the future, for how long will A & B continue software support? What are they promising on new sales today? 12 years?

Tech / software will continue the trend of fewer, larger airlines.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 4):
which will see older aircraft held onto for longer by low tech airlines

Is this to imply that DL (which does this) is a "low tech" airline?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3743
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 4):
he technology divide is becoming ever greater, which will see older aircraft held onto for longer by low tech airlines, and newer, high tech aircraft parted earlier, as replaced.

Actually there is a trend the other way around.
In the 50s til the 80s-90s, the airlines in the USA and western Europe bought new airliners, and after 10-15 years they sold their DC-6s and later 707s and early 747s to airlines like Korean Air, Kenya Airways, Thai Airways, Cathay Pacific, Avianca and Varig which flew them for another 10-15 years. Now almost all airlines try to have new and first hand aircraft only. It's also made easier with lessors and attractive low interest monthly payment programs while 30 years ago airlines (besides the blue chip western airlines) had more difficulty financing new aircraft so they could only buy second hand.
That's the main reason you'll now see relatively new 737-700s, 777-200ERs and A-330s being scrapped and the A-380 second hand market will be hopeless too as hardly no airline, except Delta and a few start ups here and there are still picking up older aircraft.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
SASMD82
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:44 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:22 am

To please aviation enthusiasts!      

When I fly to France I am willing to fly via VIE to fly the F100 or via ZRH to take an ARJ. I used to fly to the Nordics via CPH just for the MD-80 (that time is gone now).
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5740
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:37 am

Compare Lufthansa (with its superb in-house maintenance facilities) which still successfully flies 744, with easyJet that buys fresh and mint 319 and 320 and sells them before heavy maintenance is scheduled.

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 6):
and the A-380 second hand market will be hopeless

Somehow I hope for a LCC tourist bomber - 853 pax - but it will need feeder routes though in order to fill the plane (U2 codesharing with LH, AF or BA?)...


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:43 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):
Is this to imply that DL (which does this) is a "low tech" airline?

No. They are a bit of a mixed beast, with both.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 9214
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:47 am

Cost of operation is more than fuel usage. It is capital costs, maintenance costs, crew costs and a few other things. Fuel burn advantages are also dpeneding on the route you fly. A more efficient but heavier plane might see a reduced advantage on shorter routes, compared to the older but ligther plane. For some routes you might also have problems finding a suitable replacement. New planes might be too small, too big, too heavy, too expensive or lacking performance in one way or the other.

And then you often do not have the money to replace all old planes at once. So you do it step by step. (and if you are a big airline getting the new planes delivered also takes time)
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 22674
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:55 am

I find it pretty revealing that airlines are retiring 747-400s as fast as they can, yet are still (more or less) happily flying hundreds of 767-300ERs of similar vintage. To me that speaks a lot about the negative aspects of maintaining four engined VLAs.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:04 pm

It is a very simple equation really. The costs of operating an aircraft are comprised (among other things like overhead, staff etc. that is irrelevant for this consideration) of capital costs and operating cost (fuel, maintenance).

Aircraft are depreciated over their lifetime and thus, capital cost is low or often even zero for older aircraft.

Now, if you want to justify the investment in a new aircraft, you would (oversimplified) look at how much it would save you in operating cost, and if the added capital costs don't outweigh the lowered operating costs, the airline will go for a newer aircraft.
Sometimes, that won't be the case, and the higher capital costs will hurt the companies bottomline.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:04 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 6):
Actually there is a trend the other way around.

I didn't make it clear enough.

We will never see airlines operating aircraft being purchased today for 20 years, even Delta.

At end of life, other than existing operators of the same type maybe, the only used market will be scrap. Even parting will take a hit, as operational lifespans decrease.

High interest rates won't see airlines operating aircraft for longer. It will see more shakeouts and the survival of the fittest. You are right low interest rates make for lower payments, but offset against this are the shorter credit terms linked to aircraft life.

Even with the current lowish interest rates, the financing bar is being raised. Future startups will need the support of backers with deep pockets, as the appetitie of manufacturers and specialist aviation financiers to take on this role has diminished.

Back in the good old 70's and 80's, near 100% financing for 747's over 15 and even more years, with a used residual was the norm. You would be lucky today to find anyone willing to finance for 12 other than with scrap residual. 10 or 11 may well become the new normal.

The barrier / mountain is software support. The 787 / A350 take this to a new level. Manufacturers won't want to provide support, or fund product liability exposure.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3046
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:46 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 6):
except Delta and a few start ups here and there are still picking up older aircraft.

I don't see that as a bad thing. DL is very profitable with their current business plan which involves the use of older aircraft and RA not wanting to take on unproven, technological aircraft.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
I find it pretty revealing that airlines are retiring 747-400s as fast as they can, yet are still (more or less) happily flying hundreds of 767-300ERs of similar vintage. To me that speaks a lot about the negative aspects of maintaining four engined VLAs.

It is the thing that the aircraft that are being retired have a limited operational use. I see the 763s that DL and UA are operating to be the right aircraft for far more routes than the 744s of each airline and thus keeping the 763s make more sense from an operational point of view and retiring the 744s due to the lack of work for them.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
brucek
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:43 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:54 pm

In the financial world there is a term "Cost of Ownership". It's more obvious and direct when it's a leasing payment made to a lessor, or a debt service payment required when the airline has to borrow money to make the purchase itself. Even if the airline "pays in cash" from it's own liquid assets, there is still the issue as to whether that capital is being put to it's "highest and best use", added to the interest revenue forfeited when the funds are depelted by the sale, plus if a public company some shareholders might argue that the capital could have been used to pay higher dividends.

Usually offsetting the Cost of Ownership is the greater effieciency of the new type, however that is amortized over years.

And to whether the flying public care about what the aircraft type/age is? I flew on a B717 (DL) a few months ago, and I heard someone saying how cool it was to fly on a 747...... All the average public care about are the seats, the OH bins, and maybe the IFE....
 
solarflyer22
Posts: 1519
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:07 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:35 pm

There are a lot of different factors at play and excluding the sanctioned nations it really depends on where the airline is and what its financial situation is. It seems like you're focused on the US which has some unique characteristics that keeps planes around.

Some factors to consider would be, fleet commonality and pilots. Its sometimes hard to exit the MD8x and move to 737 in one big swoop and maintain your pilot core and deal with the expense of a new fleet type. In the USA, maintenance costs and parts costs are lower than Europe so I do think that keeps airliners around longer. Some of that is because the parts are made here and the lower union and labor costs.

I also think 9/11 / Internet bubble burst led to many US majors curtailing fleet upgrades. So part of it is economic in nature. No one wants to upgrade when the economy is weak and the airline's financial status is not good.

Interest rates are at a historic low however so one would think financing new planes would be cheap and easy. Its been like this for 7 years so I am surprised American airlines don't borrow the cheap money and then upgrade fleets.

Outside the G-20 economies, I think the primary consideration is acquisition cost. Its an expensive game to get into.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting delta88 (Thread starter):
but what is it about the MD-80, or the DC-9, Boeing 727,

Good question. First production DC-9s and 727s are almost 50 years old. MD-80/90s are still in service with AA and DL being retired by 737-800s and A320s. But besides US gov & military, are there any charter carriers still using the odd DC-9 or 727?

[Edited 2014-08-20 10:00:43]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
lpdal
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:06 pm

Delta clenches and collects 757s because they have had a long a successful history with the type, as well as it's versatility. 752s have proven to be economically superb aircraft for USA-based airlines flying across the pond to secondary European destinations from East Coast hubs.

In addition, cheap, used-condition airplanes are in constant demand by developing nations due to their general reliability, such as African DC and MD frames.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 4):
In the future, for how long will A & B continue software support?

As long as their major customers require that support. If, for example, A withdrew software support from a MAJOR customer then B would be favourite to win the next order from that MAJOR customer. What is more withdrawing support from a type still in service with a MAJOR customer could well influence other airlines, both major and minor to look towards the manufacturer who offered the superior customer support package.

Quoting planesmart (Reply 13):
Back in the good old 70's and 80's, near 100% financing for 747's over 15 and even more years, with a used residual was the norm. You would be lucky today to find anyone willing to finance for 12 other than with scrap residual.

This appears to be in conflict with BA's published policy. In their 2012 Annual Report - the last full report before consolidation into IAG - they said:

"Fleet is generally depreciated over periods ranging from 18-25 years after making allowance for estimated residual values."

They went on to give the following annual amortization rates by type of aircraft:

1. B747 and B 777 amortized at 3.7 per cent per annum

2. B767 and B 737 amortized at 4.2 per cent per annum

3. A318, A319, A320 and A321 amortized at 4.9 per cent per annum

4. E175 and E195 amortized at 6.4 per cent per annum

The oldest 744 in today's BA operational fleet is G-BNLE. It will be 25 years old at the beginning of October. It will be fully written down to its residual value. It will therefore incurr no capital cost. In comparison a new 77W has a Boeing list price of US$ 330 million. Its annual capital cost would be US$ 12.2 million to be reduced by the percentage discount granted to BA by Boeing. If we assume a generous 25 per cent discount we are looking at a capital cost saving of over US$9 million per annum. This capital cost saving compared to a new aircraft will pay for a large amount of additional fuel and maintenance costs. However it is likely that 'NE will be retired immediately in front of its next major maintenance check.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:13 pm

2 uses come to mind.

Quoting mayor (Reply 5):
Is this to imply that DL (which does this) is a "low tech" airline?

  

On the contrary, airlines like DL and KL can hold onto old aircraft because of their technical depth and skill. Tthey can profitably keep fleets of Fokkers or MD-90s running while others would need support. This turns into a business opportunity for them.

Another nice thing about old aircraft is capacity flexibility. You use old airplanes for "peak" capacity needs and keep them cold at other times.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
happily flying hundreds of 767-300ERs of similar vintage. To me that speaks a lot about the negative aspects of maintaining four engined VLAs.

Indeed. There seems to be no sign the 767 is obsolete for operators yet. The 788 may force the issue. I did ride on one of Delta's Pacific 763ER routes and it did the job. If it still beats 788 on trip cost (ownership included), then it is still the cheapest tool for some routes..

[Edited 2014-08-20 10:19:30]
 
1400mph
Posts: 1051
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:29 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:42 pm

I don't think an airline needs to operate young fleets to be successful.

Luck plays a part in having a strong home market.

Combined with a strong brand and reasonable service reputation.

If you rely very heavily on transfer traffic then you have to dangle a carrot to tempt custom from rivals.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7666
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:47 pm

One reason could be west is not able to sell old planes to third world any more. Fuel savings, EXIM/EIB cheap financing and low mx costs moved third world towards buying brand new planes.

Reliability of 777 could be a contributing factor to rash of 747 retirements. If 787 is as reliable (real or perception) as 777 we would see lot more 767 retirements. Now most 787 operators are still hanging on to their old planes for just in case scenario.
 
User avatar
PITingres
Posts: 1282
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:59 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:23 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 13):
We will never see airlines operating aircraft being purchased today for 20 years, even Delta.

If you are saying that effective airplane life is going to decrease to under 20 years, I disagree completely. I think a lot of the relatively low hanging fruit has been plucked, as far as operating efficiency goes. We're seeing a lot of engineering effort going into lowering maintenance costs (electrics replacing pneumatics, for instance) and extending structural lifetime (composites). One can argue over how successful a specific attempt might have been, but overall we're seeing a lot of effort put into longevity and maintainability.

And, given the high acquisition prices of the newest generation of airplanes (which in turn is driven by the massive engineering effort needed to achieve and certify worthwhile gains), I suspect that any short term use-and-replace strategy is completely insupportable.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
747400sp
Posts: 3900
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:52 pm

Hey, sometimes an older plane is better built than a new plane. Those Mad Dogs that Delta use, are likely to have a much stroger hull, than these 737s and A32Xs we have today.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:56 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
This appears to be in conflict with BA's published policy. In their 2012 Annual Report - the last full report before consolidation into IAG - they said:

"Fleet is generally depreciated over periods ranging from 18-25 years after making allowance for estimated residual values."

Depreciation rates are not the same as funding. While BA may depreciate a 744 over say 20 years, was paid for by Y12.

BA, and others of the same ilk may well have finance owing against older aircraft, because they re-financed them for other reasons.
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 19):
As long as their major customers require that support. If, for example, A withdrew software support from a MAJOR customer then B would be favourite to win the next order from that MAJOR customer. What is more withdrawing support from a type still in service with a MAJOR customer could well influence other airlines, both major and minor to look towards the manufacturer who offered the superior customer support package.

Software support will be managed just as it is today with hardware. The cost of support will be increased and increased to the point the customer deems it's uneconomic.

In your example, if A & B are struggling to keep up with new demand, they are more likely to extend support. If A & B are both in the sales doldrums, re-pricing support will stimulate new sales.

The interesting scenario, would be if A had the full order book, and B didn't, or vice versa.

Given the A350 and 787's markedly greater dependancy on software and non-hard systems, what software support guarantees are A & B demanding from suppliers, and in turn, what are they guaranteeing to customers?
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:00 pm

Quoting planesmart (Reply 26):
The cost of support will be increased and increased to the point the customer deems it's uneconomic.

And if a customer perceives that increase in cost is unreasonable that customer will go elsewhere for its next order, Pricing the use of your product out of the market is certainly not the way to obtain repeat business with your new product.
 
User avatar
DocLightning
Posts: 21657
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:26 am

Here's how I think about it:

You can split the costs for owning and operating an airliner into two groups: those fixed costs that will accrue every month regardless of use and those costs that accumulate with use.

So the fixed costs would be mostly lease payments, taxes, and, if stored, storage fees. For a 29yo 757 like the one I recently flew from SFO to DTW, those fixed costs will be very low because the aircraft is paid off and the residual value is low (low taxes). If the economy tanks and volume drops, DL could park that aircraft in the desert and only have to pay the storage costs, which are low. For a brand-new 787, those costs are high because the lease is young. So just owning a new plane is expensive even if you never fly it.

Then there are use-based costs. Some accumulate by mile, some by cycle, some by hour, some by a combination of the two. For an older aircraft, the maintenance and fuel costs will be higher. For a new 787, the operational cost (CASM) will be very low. But the only way you're going to make money on a new 787 is to keep filled and flying as much as possible. It's not only just "not making money" sitting on the ground, it's actively costing you money.

So it depends on your business model. Some companies, like G4, use an older fleet but a lower utilization. That means they have older planes that are cheap to own but expensive to operate. This is also why cargo aircraft are also often old airliners. A given FX MD-10 might only make one round-trip per day and spend most of the day on the ground at OAK. And some companies, like FR, buy brand new airplanes, fly the living daylights out of them, and then sell them. And some companies, like WN, use a hybrid model.

Hope this helps.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
airtechy
Posts: 743
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:49 am

If the stock market is in a bubble as some are predicting, the economy tanks, and people stop flying, wonder which of the three (four?) legacy airlines in the US will be better off......just on the basic of ongoing aircraft cost? Delta has a bunch of owned aircraft they could park. American will soon have a bunch of new aircraft on leases that they may be able to get out off....or not. Don't know about United.   
 
Planesmart
Posts: 2891
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:20 am

If you are predicting a major global, or more specifically US downturn, the Delta model is good, assuming no customer resistance to flying in 29 year old aircraft.

Other than a major global downturn, decline, growth and steady can occur simultaneously, even on the same route for different airlines.

Lease deals incorporate ratchet clauses for excess hours and cycles. Never seen ratchet clauses for less.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:33 am

why not drive a brand new Mercedes every year instead of keeping one you just purchased? I can't believe this is really a topic on a.net!
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:37 am

The 767 is hardly obsolete. You can still order a brand new one today.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5740
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:40 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 32):

The one that flies for about 5000 nm or the one that makes about 9000 nm? 


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
SASMD82
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:44 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:59 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 32):
The 767 is hardly obsolete. You can still order a brand new one today.

which is crazy when you have a 788 in production too. The only thing I can come up with is the availability which is of course much quicker.
 
User avatar
DexSwart
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:35 am

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 34):
which is crazy when you have a 788 in production too. The only thing I can come up with is the availability which is of course much quicker.

How I see it is Boeing would rather build a 767 for an airline that can't afford the 787, as opposed to losing that customer entirely.

Kind of how there's an iPad mini and a regular iPad. Apple would rather you still use iOS, just on a cheaper product (still high quality), as opposed to losing you to Samsung.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4439
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:43 am

Quoting planesmart (Reply 13):
We will never see airlines operating aircraft being purchased today for 20 years, even Delta.

I guess there will be exemptions of this rule. Lufthansa comes to my mind, they flew the first A340s for more than 20 years and just recently sold them. Some were scrapped, but it seems some had some life left.

What is interesting, however, is the fact that LH flies their 737classics till the very end - around 25 years, and sends them directly to the scrapper. There are not really dozens of african airlines buying 20 year old 737 Classics nowadays. This is different from 20 years ago.
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Why Are Older Airliners In Service?

Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:30 am

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 34):
which is crazy when you have a 788 in production too. The only thing I can come up with is the availability which is of course much quicker.

Most 767's still being built are freighters.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos