Overseas Territories And Hubs

czek6 · Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:48 pm

Aside from United/Continental operating from Guam, are there any other examples of airlines from the 'home' country operating a hub from a territory of their country.

For example, could Air France operate a hub connecting the Americas and Africa from French Guiana, or could KLM connect north and south America via a hub in Aruba?

Likewise, maybe British Airways could operate a hub in Akrotiri...well politics aside, perhaps.

SCQ83 · Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
For example, could Air France operate a hub connecting the Americas and Africa from French Guiana, or could KLM connect north and south America via a hub in Aruba?

AF already does that at PTP. They fly to MIA and PAP (international) and ORY, FDF and CAY (domestic).

boeing773er · Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:52 pm

Technically KL could open a hub up in Aruba since it is still a Dutch colony, if I'm wrong correct me. But they could do that, but as we are seeing GUM/NRT is being over clown and reduced as a whole for UA/DL.

I this this idea could of worked better in the 1990s but with aircraft such as the 787 we don't need to have these little hubs.

iFlyLOTs · Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
Aside from United/Continental operating from Guam, are there any other examples of airlines from the 'home' country operating a hub from a territory of their country.

Would you consider what AA did and what B6 is doing in SJU as a hub in an over-seas territory?

KL could also have a hub in SXM correct? I'm not very familiar with what their exact political status is though

[Edited 2014-08-20 12:52:24]

spinkid · Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:55 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 3):
KL could also have a hub in SXM correct? I'm not very familiar with what their exact political status is though

In theory they could have a hub, but they would need the traffic for it. Did KLM ever provide service to SXM or Aruba from the US?

Before I understood geography and flight patterns I always thought BDA would make a great hub

DeltaRules · Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:06 am

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 3):

Would you consider what AA did and what B6 is doing in SJU as a hub in an over-seas territory?

Eastern also had a hub at SJU before AA took over. On top of all that, I think TWA was trying to start a focus city there just before the end.

Andy33 · Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:10 am

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
Likewise, maybe British Airways could operate a hub in Akrotiri...well politics aside, perhaps.

Well, it isn't just the politics, Cyprus hasn't worked so well as a hub for Cyprus Airways has it? In fact if BA (or LH, or AF/KLM) thought a hub there was a good idea, under EU regulations there's nothing to stop them setting up a hub at Larnaca or Paphos, where all the civil aviation infrastructure already exists.

Now if you'd suggested a hub at MPN to serve the southern part of South America...

(RAF Mount Pleasant, Falkland Islands, since the a-net translator isn't working for this airport)

[Edited 2014-08-20 22:11:36]

washingtonflyer · Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:12 am

How about UA's hub at NRT.

TWA772LR · Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:14 am

Quoting boeing773ER (Reply 2):
GUM/NRT is being over clown and reduced as a whole for UA/DL.

UA is actually adding service from GUM. They have a monopoly in Micronesia and the other Pacific islands.

N104UA · Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:38 am

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
For example, could Air France operate a hub connecting the Americas and Africa from French Guiana, or could KLM connect north and south America via a hub in Aruba?

AF already does that at PTP. They fly to MIA and PAP (international) and ORY, FDF and CAY (domestic).

Does anyone know about the A320s that fly this route, are they normal EUR configured, with the standard European J or have they been modified?

Is the product standard to the AF European service standards, or more of a U.S. standards?

Also are the pilots and crew based or do they have crew with multi type ratings flying CDG-MIA-PTP?

I am assuming the planes based in MIA and how often to they rotate them back to France for heavy maintenance?

Has anyone ever flown this route, I would love to hear your experience if have.

DexSwart · Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:26 am

AF could have a base in RUN, though I think MRU overshadows RUN by a mile.

They could connect Africa and Oceania. A la MK.

They could also do PPT.

goldorak · Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:31 am

Quoting N104UA (Reply 9):
Does anyone know about the A320s that fly this route, are they normal EUR configured, with the standard European J or have they been modified?

I think this is a similar config as in Europe (but I'm not 100% sure). The catering is enhanced compared to what you can have on Euro routes.

Quoting N104UA (Reply 9):
Also are the pilots and crew based or do they have crew with multi type ratings flying CDG-MIA-PTP?

Pilots are A318/319/320/321-qualified and are from the main base in France. They are temporarily based in PTP or FDF for some months.

Quoting N104UA (Reply 9):
I am assuming the planes based in MIA and how often to they rotate them back to France for heavy maintenance?

2 A320 are operating those intra-Caraibes flights. The planes are not based in MIA but in PTP or FDF. I don't know if they send them back to France for maintenance. There should be some more practical local possibilities.

goldorak · Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:34 am

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 10):
AF could have a base in RUN, though I think MRU overshadows RUN by a mile.

They could connect Africa and Oceania. A la MK.

They could also do PPT.

Totally unrealistic thinking about the costs for such a base and operations. And there is already a local airline who's doing this job : Air Austral.

VCEflyboy · Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:58 am

In the past, HKG and MFM (Chinese overseas territories) were hubs for Chinese airlines connecting passengers to/from Taiwan, whereas the Chinese airlines operated the China mainland-HKG/MFM tag and the Taiwanese airlines would operate onward to Taiwan. Now direct flights are available, so that is no longer the case.

[Edited 2014-08-21 00:06:30]

DexSwart · Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:14 am

Quoting goldorak (Reply 12):
Totally unrealistic thinking about the costs for such a base and operations. And there is already a local airline who's doing this job : Air Austral

I know. However, it is still possible that they could do this. UU (I think? Or is it UN?) has cut back many of their services.

RUN is overshadowed! but for the purposes of this thread! it's possible.

airbuster · Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:38 am

Interesting you brought up KLM and Aruba. It has been in the news lately that Bonaire might have some potential as a transfer hub to South America. Why Bonaire you ask? Because it's a Dutch municipality as opposed to Aruba which is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands but is a country. I don't know which places KLM wants to connect to out of BON though.

Airbuster

817Dreamliiner · Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:07 am

Quoting N104UA (Reply 9):
Does anyone know about the A320s that fly this route, are they normal EUR configured, with the standard European J or have they been modified?

The 2 A320s are based at PTP not MIA. Both have a configuration of 14J 144Y. Not sure if its an actual J class seat or the European style J set up (middle seat blocked). Those two aircraft are F-HEPF (with sharklets) and F-GKXQ.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 1):
AF already does that at PTP. They fly to MIA and PAP (international) and ORY, FDF and CAY (domestic).

In addition to those listed above, they also fly to PUJ, SDQ and PTY.

factsonly · Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:09 am

Quoting spinkid (Reply 4):
In theory they could have a hub, but they would need the traffic for it. Did KLM ever provide service to SXM or Aruba from the US?

The answer is YES !

and in several ways:

In the 1930s and 1940s KLM based some of its aircraft in CUR and had them registered with an Antillean PJ-XXX registration to operate a network from CUR/AUA/SXM to MIA, SJU, CCS, etc. This airline later became ALM (code ALM Antillean Airlines (Netherlands Antilles)">LM) which operated 3x DC9-10s.

Upto 1978 KLM operated two DC8-50s and/or DC8-63s each week (and even briefly DC10) on a 'W' pattern from AMS via the JFK to the Netherlands Antilles:

Day 1: AMS-JFK scheduled flight

over the next days these aircraft would operate out of JFK:

Day 2 - dep. 10.00 JFK-CUR-AUA-JFK arr. 20.25 1x/week as KL flight plus 1x/week as ALM Antillean Airlines (Netherlands Antilles)">LM flight
Day 3 - dep. 10.00 JFK-CUR-JFK arr. 18.35 3x/week
Day 4 - dep. 10.00 JFK-AUA-CCS-AUA-JFK arr. 22.15 2x week
Day 5 - dep. 10.00 JFK-CUR-CCS-CUR-JFK arr. 22.25 1x week
Day 6 - dep. 11.00 JFK-SXM-JFK arr. 20.20 2x/week

to return

- Day 7 - JFK-AMS scheduled flight

The crews would be Amsterdam based crews who would rotate AMS-JFK-JFK-JFK-AMS

Quite a number of passengers would fly CUR-JFK-AMS, as this was much faster than CUR-CCS-POS-LIS-ZRH-AMS.

roseflyer · Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:31 am

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 7):
How about UA's hub at NRT.

While Japan was never a territory of the United States, it was occupied for 7 years after WWII. During this time, Northwest Orient Airlines became the largest foreign airline serving Japan. Northwest built up a decent sized hub in the late 1940s out of Tokyo. One could say that this was a hub in an overseas territory. In 1952 the United States ended its occupation of Japan, but signed a treaty that granted Pan Am and Northwest rights to fly routes from Japan under what is now known as 5th freedom rights. Pan Am and Northwest were larger than the Japanese airlines and when NRT opened obtained a significant number of slots. Those rights continued and have been passed through via mergers and acquisitions to United and Delta. Although we are seeing less use of these 5th freedom rights due to airplanes now having longer range, one could say this was a hub started in an overseas occupied territory.

PRAirbus · Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:31 am

Both EAL and AA had hubs in Puerto Rico (US territory); they had FAs based in SJU, PR to crew some flights to the US Mainland and intra-Caribbean; neither had mainline pilots based in SJU; at least AA did not have; not sure if Eastern had pilots based in SJU. Their regional arms, Eastern Metro Express and American Eagle had both pilots and FAs based in SJU. AA FA base in SJU closed in 1998; Eastern's in the late 80's (1987?).

DeltaRules · Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:56 pm

Obviously Florida hasn't belonged to Spain for a few hundred years, but how about Iberia's DC-9/A319 operations from MIA to Latin America?

FlyHossD · Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:55 am

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 3):
Would you consider what AA did and what B6 is doing in SJU as a hub in an over-seas territory?

Quoting czek6 (Thread starter):
Aside from United/Continental operating from Guam,

Both are U.S. territories. Or said another way, neither is a foreign hub (foreign to the U.S.).

iFlyLOTs · Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:42 am

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 21):
Both are U.S. territories. Or said another way, neither is a foreign hub (foreign to the U.S.).

Which if you read the original post, is what the thread starter was asking about.

Viscount724 · Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 18):
Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 7):How about UA's hub at NRT.
While Japan was never a territory of the United States, it was occupied for 7 years after WWII.

Okinawa wasn't returned to Japanese control until 1972, 27 years after WWII..

Overseas Territories And Hubs

Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

RE: Overseas Territories And Hubs

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net