YVRSpeedBird
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CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:33 am

 
bohica
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:39 am

Quoting YVRSpeedBird (Thread starter):
Discuss!

Looks like there is already a discussion about this:

CX Hints A New Destination On Instagram. (by cathay250 Aug 21 2014 in Civil Aviation)
 
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VCEflyboy
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:40 am

Congrats BOS and congrats CX!
 
YVRSpeedBird
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:57 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 2):
Looks like there is already a discussion about this:

I realized that but that thread was just about speculating CX's next destination. Now that it's officially Boston, I think it deserves its own thread. This is big news for BOS.
 
cpl22586
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:35 am

Thats great news for Boston. Going to be great to see CX at Terminal E. Amazing how quickly BOS is growing with International destinations.
 
briguychau
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:00 am

From CX Timetable
Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat from HKG, Tue/Wed/Fri/Sun from BOS
CX812 HKG 1800-2130 BOS begins 2 May 2015
CX811 BOS 0145-0535+1 HKG begins 3 May 2015

4-class 77W operating

Edit: Oops, I should've noticed it was linked to in airlineroute post.

[Edited 2014-08-22 00:01:04]
 
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airportugal310
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:08 am

Man...I've said it once and I'll say it again...BOS just can't lose lately!

Awesome stuff
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
Cipango
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:49 am

MAN, ZRH and now BOS.

All "rumours" have come true  
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cx828
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:25 am

with only 3000m is that long enough for bos-hkg during winter time??
 
iyerhari
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:11 am

Hurrah kudos BOS! Massport did it again. Now let's hope Aeromexico or Interjet and El-Al also come and start their operations here! Kudus to BOS!
 
tommy1808
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:20 am

Quoting cx828 (Reply 8):
with only 3000m is that long enough for bos-hkg during winter time??

The 77W is bad at hot and high, BOS in winter is neither. Should be enough to get out at or close to MTOW. And there are jut 275 seats on board.

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as739x
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:06 am

Quoting cx828 (Reply 8):
with only 3000m is that long enough for bos-hkg during winter time??

Cold is good for performance
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airway1
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:12 am

Flights out of Boston operate that late? I thought the airport shuts down at around 10:30.
 
dfambro
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:19 am

CX812 HKG1800 – 2130BOS

I like it! Finally a nonstop, and one with very good timing!. This may even be what finally moves me from *Alliance to OneWorld. With BA having locked up BOS-LHR, JAL doing NRT direct, IB, etc., OneWorld is becoming the most interested airline group out of BOS.


CX811 BOS0145 – 0535+1HKG

This is horrifying. I didn't event know BOS allowed departures at that hour. I'd much rather leave in the afternoon are arrive in the evening. But I guess you can't expect CX to leave a plane on the ground at BOS that long.
 
commavia
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:08 pm

Awesome.

Cathay is such an awesome airline, and HKG is such an incredible hub - definitely underscores the critical importance of major O&D and connecting centers for making some of these new, longer flights (like LHR-AUS, SFO-CTU, etc.) work.

As was already alluded to, this is also going to definitely be a big boost for the oneworld presence in BOS, which is already quite strong given a very strong offering over the Atlantic (3-4x daily BA BOS-LHR plus seasonal AA BOS-CDG), the only daily nonstop to Asia (JAL to NRT), and of course the extensive domestic schedule of AA and USAirways.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:31 pm

That's a lot of plane to fill on a long flight with a horrific departure time.

Not to poo poo on a happy thread. But those are some real observations that will effect this flight.
 
commavia
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:40 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
That's a lot of plane to fill on a long flight with a horrific departure time.

Not everybody deems that departure time to be "horrific." In fact, that departure time is pretty much in line with many, if not most, westbound departures from North America to non-Japan/China Asia - it allows a complete day of work before leaving for the airport, and the early arrival into the Asian hub offers broad connectivity throughout the region. There's a reason that Cathay, China, EVA, Korean and Asiana collectively send (by my imperfect count) over 100 weekly flights from the U.S. and Canada to Asia using basically this exact same schedule pattern - very late evening (or very early morning) departure and very early morning arrival.

As for the aircraft - yes, it's a big jet, but then HKG is a huge hub, and BOS isn't exactly a tiny market, either.

[Edited 2014-08-22 05:41:20]
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:41 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 13):
CX812 HKG1800 – 2130BOS
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
That's a lot of plane to fill on a long flight with a horrific departure time.

Not to mention the arrival in BOS is too late to realistically offer any domestic connecting opportunities with AA or B6. So it seems CX will have to fill this plane up without any feed on the BOS end.
 
commavia
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 17):
Not to mention the arrival in BOS is too late to realistically offer any domestic connecting opportunities with AA or B6. So it seems CX will have to fill this plane up without any feed on the BOS end.

... which isn't surprising, since BOS is, to say the least, less than ideal for domestic connections, anyway, given its location, and given that just about any market Cathay could conceivably ever connect to via BOS (on AA, JetBlue, or any other airline) is already reachable by Cathay with its existing codeshares with AA over LAX, ORD, DFW, JFK, etc.

Again, just like with the >100 flights per week Cathay and other carriers schedule into and out of U.S. markets using essentially this exact same schedule, it is quite obvious that Cathay is, indeed, optimizing this route's schedule for connections in Asia, not the U.S. Again - Cathay can maximize the U.S. codeshare connectivity over LAX, ORD, DFW and JFK (and, to a certain extent, even SFO).
 
jfk777
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting briguychau (Reply 5):
From CX Timetable
Mon/Tue/Thu/Sat from HKG, Tue/Wed/Fri/Sun from BOS
CX812 HKG 1800-2130 BOS begins 2 May 2015
CX811 BOS 0145-0535+1 HKG begins 3 May 2015

The 0145 departure time is not teh best but does allow for connections in HKG. The reurn allows for connections in HKG and a full day for business people. Cathay could be launching this with the 777 since its the airplane they have today for such a long flight, the smaller A350-900 could fly it in the future.
 
sw733
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:55 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 13):
CX811 BOS0145 – 0535+1HKG

This is horrifying. I didn't event know BOS allowed departures at that hour. I'd much rather leave in the afternoon are arrive in the evening. But I guess you can't expect CX to leave a plane on the ground at BOS that long.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):

That's a lot of plane to fill on a long flight with a horrific departure time.

I guess I don't get what's so bad about the departure time. From a business travel perspective, you can get in before your meetings and not miss as much time at home; on the way back, you can cut out a bit early in HKG and head to the airport. Sure, it won't be perfect for everyone, but it's not that bad. They make YYZ and LAX departures work around this time of the day...why not BOS?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:58 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 17):
Not to mention the arrival in BOS is too late to realistically offer any domestic connecting opportunities with AA or B6.

However, immigration and customs in BOS, which can be quite hairy a couple of hours before that, should be a breeze.
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SCQ83
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:10 pm

I concur with the last comments. The time schedules are quite good for New England-based people. And I bet that CX plans more people based in Boston flying to Hong Kong and onwards to Asia than the other way around.


Quoting sw733 (Reply 20):
From a business travel perspective, you can get in before your meetings and not miss as much time at home

Indeed. Don't forget there is also a huge number of Asian students in the Boston area and New England, which IMO are key to this expansion of Asian/ME services to BOS (HKG, NRT, DXB, IST, PEK) and somehow you can say they have "homes" at both ends. The number of students from Asia, the Middle East and other emerging economies (like Brazil and in general LATAM = Copa to PTY) has literally exploded in recent years. If you are at school in Boston and you are heading to HKG/Asia for a visit back home, an exotic holiday or some job interviews, the schedules are indeed very good.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:19 pm

The biggest grumblers are the Boston spotters, who, while quite happy to see yet another new carrier at Logan, are upset at the lack of night-vision attachments for their cameras.  
 
dfambro
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:37 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 20):
From a business travel perspective, you can get in before your meetings and not miss as much time at home;

This is true, but after traveling for that long, it's quite exhausting to be looking at a long day filled with activities before you see a real bed.

An afternoon/evening arrival allows you to have a nice relaxed dinner, and a full night in a hotel, before you're expected to be at your peak performance for a long day of meetings.

I do these trips several times a year, and having done both types of schedules, my personal preference is the evening arrival.
 
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SEPilot
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:40 pm

How do the fares compare with JFK? BOS is much more convenient for me than JFK, and I could be induced to switch if the fares are not too much higher.
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sw733
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:07 pm

Quoting dfambro (Reply 24):
This is true, but after traveling for that long, it's quite exhausting to be looking at a long day filled with activities before you see a real bed.

Yes, absolutely, but people do it all the time. And if you're in J or F, it's quite easy to get 8 hours on that flight, having done so many times on ORD/LAX/SFO to HKG. It's not fun, but business travel rarely is. I say that as a frequent business traveler  
 
jawake
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:20 pm

 
jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:23 pm

I like the eastbound timing, but usually dread a westbound redeye (some biz pax love it, but not me personally)
 
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chrisnh
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:12 pm

For those looking to legitimize this route (or, ammunition aimed at naysayers looking to de-legitimize it), the press release states:

The total origin-destination market between Boston and Hong Kong, plus the 44 Asian cities accessed via Cathay Pacific / Dragonair’s Hong Kong hub, represented over 331,000 passengers and $332 million revenue annually in 2013. Boston is the largest U.S.-Hong Kong market without nonstop service. More than 53,000 passengers flew between Logan and Hong Kong in 2013.
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:22 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 29):

Demand to/from HKG in 2012 (Without service)
SEA 30,000
MIA 19,000
DFW 17,000
BOS 50,000
EWR 85,000

Obviously things will change as EWR is already in service and BOS was just announced.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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chrisnh
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:30 pm

It's interesting that 85,000 people decided to fly to Hong Kong out of Newark rather than get themselves over to JFK.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:33 pm

I can see CX extending HKG-YYZ to HKG-YYZ-MIA if they're so inclined to serve it
 
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chrisnh
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:38 pm

On a semi-related note I saw that they dragged the Emirates 77W over from E to one of the JetBlue C gates yesterday in a 'fit test.' Gate C17 to be exact. I guess they will be launching Emirates from C, from what I hear...making room for Cathay's beast which also is a late-night departure (or, more accurately, early AM).
 
ScottB
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:38 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 21):
However, immigration and customs in BOS, which can be quite hairy a couple of hours before that, should be a breeze.

That might depend on staffing; I'm not sure that CBP is going to keep a large number of agents on hand for a 2130 arrival four days a week. This may be a situation where there would only be two or three agents working to process 275 passengers.

Quoting airway1 (Reply 12):
Flights out of Boston operate that late? I thought the airport shuts down at around 10:30.

BOS is open 24/7. There are generally few flights that late due to the times being commercially undesirable, but in this case, a 2000 departure from BOS would mean arrival in HKG at midnight which is more undesirable.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 13):
CX811 BOS0145 – 0535+1HKG

This is horrifying. I didn't event know BOS allowed departures at that hour. I'd much rather leave in the afternoon are arrive in the evening. But I guess you can't expect CX to leave a plane on the ground at BOS that long.

It's not that terrible for first/business passengers who should be able to get a good eight hours of sleep on the flight. And the schedule is well-optimized for connections at HKG which will be needed to support this flight.

Consider an alternate schedule with a 1600 departure from BOS, arriving HKG 2000+1. There would be few connections available for passengers to continue onward from HKG. Similarly on the return, the aircraft would have to depart HKG at 1030 to arrive BOS by 1400, limiting connections to regional markets within about 1000 miles.

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):
As for the aircraft - yes, it's a big jet, but then HKG is a huge hub, and BOS isn't exactly a tiny market, either.

The press release highlights cargo as being a driver for the flight as well, and I can imagine quite a bit of New England seafood being carried to HKG.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 30):

Demand to/from HKG in 2012 (Without service)
SEA 30,000
MIA 19,000
DFW 17,000
BOS 50,000
EWR 85,000

These seem like 1-way figures instead of to+from ?

17000 / 366 = 46.4, which is in the ballpark of what DFW-HKG PDEW sounded like prior to the launch of the nonstop

And I kinda understand what CX didn't want SEA. On top of DL competition on the nonstop, large swaths of NE Asia is already well served by BR TPE, OZ ICN, KE ICN, NH NRT, HU PEK, and all the nonstops from DL's SEA-Asia network.

On a side note, I'm surprised KE isn't at BOS given how extensive their US network is
 
29erUSA187
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:50 pm

Im a spotter from SAN that visits BOS frequently and always goes spotting while there, BOS is on a roll. I never had any idea how much O&D Boston must have, I wonder if all this OneWorld presence will pressure AA to open a small hub or focus city to capitalize on connections.
 
hoons90
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 35):
On a side note, I'm surprised KE isn't at BOS given how extensive their US network is

KE served BOS from 1996-2001. I think they were the first Asian airline to serve BOS.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
commavia
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:54 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 36):
I wonder if all this OneWorld presence will pressure AA to open a small hub or focus city to capitalize on connections.

The new, merged AA already operates a competitive schedule from BOS with nonstop connectivity to not only all of AA's existing "cornerstone"/hub markets, but also multiple non-hub, O&D markets (like PIT, BUF, seasonal CDG, etc.). I have long contended that, post-merger, the new, merged AA should be able to make a few additional nonstop routes from BOS work - specifically RDU and SFO.

As was already alluded to up in reply 13, this only enhances the overall competitiveness and attractiveness of AA and oneworld to BOS/New England travelers.
 
kzba
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):
Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):
That might depend on staffing; I'm not sure that CBP is going to keep a large number of agents on hand for a 2130 arrival four days a week. This may be a situation where there would only be two or three agents working to process 275 passengers

CBP is already staffed for the arrival for the BA239 that arrives around the same time.
 
MAH4546
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:42 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 30):
Demand to/from HKG in 2012 (Without service)
SEA 30,000
MIA 19,000
DFW 17,000
BOS 50,000
EWR 85,000

Obviously things will change as EWR is already in service and BOS was just announced.

All those numbers are off (lower than actual), and EWR has had service to Hong Kong for 12+ years.
a.
 
jcarv
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:46 pm

ScottB is right. There is minimal staffing for BA239 and CBP staff is low country wide. They fill the gap with overtime. The majority of agents shift end at 9:00PM in Boston. The airport as a whole will have to start changing more and more with these late flights being added. More TSA staff, concessions, airport workers, etc. It's a fairly large task. Almost 24 hour pax operation now. Airline day shifts start at 3:00am typically.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
All those numbers are off (lower than actual), and EWR has had service to Hong Kong for 12+ years.

Yes, DFW and MIA were both over 25k before DFW-HKG launched and Im pretty sure SEA-HKG was higher than 30k.
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kzba
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:51 pm

Quoting jcarv (Reply 41):

Funny...I flew in on the 239 last week and staffing was plentiful.
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:59 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 40):
All those numbers are off (lower than actual), and EWR has had service to Hong Kong for 12+ years.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 42):
Yes, DFW and MIA were both over 25k before DFW-HKG launched and Im pretty sure SEA-HKG was higher than 30k.

Got the info from another thread. Sorry about that.

But that's good news that the numbers are much higher.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
jcarv
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:03 pm

Did you go to booth or airport-operated self clearance machines? Most US passport holders are going through the self service booths run by the airport authority.
 
kzba
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:08 pm

Quoting jcarv (Reply 45):

I have global entry, but as I passed through the backside on my way down to the baggage carousel, at least 8 booths were manned.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:24 pm

Very interesting how the Chinese carriers are taking a "less-than-daily" approach to opening up new destinations on the East Coast, e.g. CA 4x IADPEK, CZ 4x JFKCAN, MU 3x YYZPVG and now CX 4x BOSHKG. All are currently served on 77Ws except for MU on the 346, but this will likely be replaced by the 77W once the deliveries come in,

My intuition is that of these, the CX route will perform the best and be the first to get up-gauged to daily. The addition of First and Premium Y on the BOS-HKG route is a major advantage over JL and HU.

Some more analysis on the route:

http://upgrd.com/aerospace/cathay-pa...gth-of-north-american-network.html
 
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adamh8297
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:48 pm

Does anyone have information about HKG-orginiating tourists? Is this a group that one could easily stimulate traffic with via starting a non-stop?

Quoting irishayes (Reply 47):
My intuition is that of these, the CX route will perform the best and be the first to get up-gauged to daily

Do you think CX is waiting for both market stimulation and the A359 before going daily?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 48):
Do you think CX is waiting for both market stimulation and the A359 before going daily?

I personally thought the A359 would be the start up aircraft. But I still believe that they will eventually fly the A359 to BOS.

Now, to your daily question. It could go daily on a 77W. But just give it a couple months or year(s) after it's officially starting service.

I like the idea of 4x weekly. Let the market mature, if that's the case for CX.
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