jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:03 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 47):
Very interesting how the Chinese carriers are taking a "less-than-daily" approach to opening up new destinations on the East Coast, e.g. CA 4x IADPEK, CZ 4x JFKCAN, MU 3x YYZPVG and now CX 4x BOSHKG.

Please don't call CX a "chinese carrier". Politically yes it's one nation, but for all practical purposes (including aviation), it's counted separately.
 
hohd
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:44 pm

After a day at work, and then travelling all night and then more, it will hard to go to any meeting, regardless of any class one is travelling. This is for flight from BOS to HKG. However it is excellent for connections though.

I wish CX would have announced IAH next. United will not start any flight from here. It is prime opportunity for CX. It has enough O & D traffic to HKG and China and other cities nearby.
 
MAH4546
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:06 pm

Quoting hohd (Reply 51):
I wish CX would have announced IAH next. United will not start any flight from here. It is prime opportunity for CX. It has enough O & D traffic to HKG and China and other cities nearby.

IAH-HKG is nowhere near as large as BOSHKG, and it's smaller still than MIAHKG, DFWHKG and ATLHKG.
a.
 
Tdan
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:33 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 52):

IAH-HKG is nowhere near as large as BOSHKG, and it's smaller still than MIAHKG, DFWHKG and ATLHKG.

   IAH will get PVG before HKG. I'd expect MU to see CA's success with PEK and launch 4x weekly in a few years. Right now, IAH needs to absorb the KE and upcoming BR capacity (assuming they officially announce) before adding PVG.

Can't believe it took CX so long to launch BOS. BOS is the top flow point on UA's EWR-HKG and top 5 over ORD as well. Plus, CX takes quite a bit of BOS traffic over JFK and ORD as well which should help to relieve capacity constraints on those routes.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 53):
IAH will get PVG before HKG. I'd expect MU to see CA's success with PEK and launch 4x weekly in a few years. Right now, IAH needs to absorb the KE and upcoming BR capacity (assuming they officially announce) before adding PVG.

UA would be wise to add a 788 to IAH-PVG at some point. Right now, what I want to see most from IAH is KE getting their loads off the ground.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 52):
IAH-HKG is nowhere near as large as BOSHKG, and it's smaller still than MIAHKG, DFWHKG and ATLHKG.

Youre wasting your breath. Ive mentioned this to hohd many times and it falls on deaf ears.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:54 pm

Quoting cx828 (Reply 8):

with only 3000m is that long enough for bos-hkg during winter time??
Quoting as739x (Reply 11):
Cold is good for performance

Exactly. Aircraft engines perform better in cold air.

Also, since this flight will be departing at 1h45 am, even the summer temperatures (which is what you need to worry about) wont be much of a factor.

A 77W at MTOW needs roughly 10,000 ft of runway to takeoff in ISA conditions (15 Celsius at sea level, zero wind, dry runway, AC off, zero runway gradient).

BOS's longest is 10,083 ft.

One might say not much wiggle room, but one needs to know that wiggle room is built into these figures, as 1 engine out performance and ASDA (accelerate-stop distance, in case of aborting takeoff at V1) are all taken into account when calculating takeoff runs needed.

Add in some headwind, or a favorable runway gradient, and the required runway length is even less. All in all, shouldn't be a problem for CX. Even if 15R/33L is closed, 4R/22L will also do the job.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-08-22 15:05:09]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
fly2yyz
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:33 pm

Its an Asian invasion?

Anyone envisaging KE making a comeback next year?
 
iyerhari
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:40 pm

I read an article in the Globe few weeks back that there were 4 carriers who had requested a380 compatible aircraft for BOS. It's going to be interesting to see which ones they are. Every Thu I see a slew of carriers including EK parked alongside the maintenance hanger due to space constraints. But nevertheless a great O&D destination that doesn't depend on minimal transit traffic and still performs so well. Can't wait to travel on CX next! I suppose Massport maybe waiting for AA to shift to US side to move Southwest 
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:50 pm

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 57):
I read an article in the Globe few weeks back that there were 4 carriers who had requested a380 compatible aircraft for BOS.

So, Lufthansa, Air France, Emirates, British Airways and Virgin Atlantic (If ever delivered). Only carriers that fly to BOS that have the A380.

I find that story extremely false.

Only one that probably will happen in upcoming years is Emirates.

[Edited 2014-08-22 16:52:23]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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chrisnh
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:37 am

LH is bringing their 748 into Boston in a couple days, perhaps to 'test-fit' it to a gate. The hits...they jes keep on a comin.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 58):
I find that story extremely false.

True or False it was quoted from Massport exec's around the end of this article.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/.../kGIlXZbf0uodPjZGKlktaM/story.html
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 60):

Yeah, false. Just like some exec's said Qatar Airways is seen to bring in the A380 to MIA.   

That being said. BOS will be extremely lucky to get a A380. And if it ever happens, it's going to be Emirates. Not British Airways, not Lufthansa, not Air France and not Virgin Atlantic.

Good luck to BOS, though! Wishful thinking.  Wink

[Edited 2014-08-22 18:48:54]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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adamh8297
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 61):
Yeah, false. Just like some exec's said Qatar Airways is seen to bring in the A380 to MIA

If its false why is Massport wasting the money to upgrade three gates.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:56 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 60):

Interesting. TLV apparently might be next, according to the article. Would El Al start BOS? Can't see AA opening the route. They don't even serve it via JFK.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
VS11
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:01 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 58):
So, Lufthansa, Air France, Emirates, British Airways and Virgin Atlantic (If ever delivered). Only carriers that fly to BOS that have the A380.

Virgin Atlantic is never going to fly A380 to Boston, even if they had it, especially now with so many international carriers flying into Boston. The A380 made sense for VS during the Bermuda II days, not now. VS will be having a great yield with the spanking new B789 from next month on.
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 62):
If its false why is Massport wasting the money to upgrade three gates.

I don't know. You ask MIA the same question for the A380 gate they are building in the North Terminal with NO confirmation of use.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 65):
I don't know. You ask MIA the same question for the A380 gate they are building in the North Terminal with NO confirmation of use.

British Airways is "confirmed."
a.
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:36 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 66):
British Airways is "confirmed."

Let's talk about it somewhere before we get a riot on our tails!  duck   tapedshut 

[Edited 2014-08-22 21:48:22]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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airportugal310
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 67):

This is a thread about CX at Boston and not airlines at MIA. Start a new thread if so interested

Thx
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:46 am

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 68):
This is a thread about CX at Boston and not airlines at MIA. Start a new thread if so interested

Funny how I was making an example to someone. I'm not the one that started the MIA talks.  

But thanks for the insight, though.

[Edited 2014-08-22 21:51:29]
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
airway1
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:28 pm

Spoke to a close friend at emirates and he confirms that emirates requested to start the A380 flight. They wanted the august start but logan pushed them back.
 
alphaomega
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:03 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 33):

On a semi-related note I saw that they dragged the Emirates 77W over from E to one of the JetBlue C gates yesterday in a 'fit test.' Gate C17 to be exact. I guess they will be launching Emirates from C, from what I hear...making room for Cathay's beast which also is a late-night departure (or, more accurately, early AM).

It doesn't have anything to do with CX or the other carriers, but EK's own issues in Terminal E. They don't have a lounge, except for the pax ticketed for First, which get to use the VS Clubhouse. Imagine them continuing any longer than they already have with no Business lounge? They are moving to C for departures next month.

Quoting hoons90 (Reply 37):

Quoting Jetblue1965 (Reply 35):
On a side note, I'm surprised KE isn't at BOS given how extensive their US network is

KE served BOS from 1996-2001. I think they were the first Asian airline to serve BOS.
Quoting fly2yyz (Reply 56):

Its an Asian invasion?

Anyone envisaging KE making a comeback next year?

Yes, yes and yes - Massport turned them down due to their planned schedule, but expect them to sort that out for next year.

Quoting iyerhari (Reply 57):

I read an article in the Globe few weeks back that there were 4 carriers who had requested a380 compatible aircraft for BOS. It's going to be interesting to see which ones they are. Every Thu I see a slew of carriers including EK parked alongside the maintenance hanger due to space constraints. But nevertheless a great O&D destination that doesn't depend on minimal transit traffic and still performs so well. Can't wait to travel on CX next! I suppose Massport maybe waiting for AA to shift to US side to move Southwest 
Quoting Miami (Reply 58):
Quoting iyerhari (Reply 57):
I read an article in the Globe few weeks back that there were 4 carriers who had requested a380 compatible aircraft for BOS.

So, Lufthansa, Air France, Emirates, British Airways and Virgin Atlantic (If ever delivered). Only carriers that fly to BOS that have the A380.

I find that story extremely false.

Only one that probably will happen in upcoming years is Emirates.

AF, BA, LH and EK would fly A380s to BOS now if they could, however the new gates will not be built and available (3 total, 7B, 8A and 8B) until Summer 2016. AF and LH were leading the charge for this, then of course EK. BA may or may not bring it, I think they have some advantages with frequency as well. VS definitely will not.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 59):

LH is bringing their 748 into Boston in a couple days, perhaps to 'test-fit' it to a gate. The hits...they jes keep on a comin.

Good timing - today (8/23) LH422/423 is being operated by the 747-8. It would already be scheduled but there is a lack of maintenance support in BOS for it.
 
flyby519
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:11 pm

If Massport at BOS can make the international arrival experience easier and more streamlined compared to JFK then there will be a huge opportunity for them to grow. Let's hope they know what they are doing!
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
LH

Lufthansa has 12 in fleet. With only 2 left on order.

List of where Lufthansa sends the A380.
New York
Shanghai
Houston
Johannesburg
Miami
Beijing
San Francisco
Singapore

My next bet would be LAX. Something much more logical for LH.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
AF

Air France has 10 in fleet. With only 2 left on order.

List of where Air France sends the A380.
Los Angeles
New York
Washington DC
Johannesburg
Shanghai
Hong Kong
Abidjan
Miami

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
BA

British Airways has 6 in fleet. With only 6 left on order.

List of where British Airways sends the A300.
Los Angeles
Hong Kong
Johannesburg
Washington
Singapore

Future could be: Beijing, Tokyo, Miami and Shanghai.



Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
EK

Best bet.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 72):

If Massport at BOS can make the international arrival experience easier and more streamlined compared to JFK then there will be a huge opportunity for them to grow. Let's hope they know what they are doing!

immigration upgrades and self serve kiosks are one thing, but Terminal E needs more contact gates as well. How many heavies can it handle at once, 8 or so? There seems to be a few gates that cant handle anything more than a B737/A320

That's not a lot for an airport with 20+ foreign carriers. They should have at least 12-15 contact gates able to accommodate a heavy.

thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-08-23 08:33:21]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
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chrisnh
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:37 pm

If Emirates can send a daily A380 to a little dot in the ocean called Mauritius with a population a third that of Boston's, then Logan will surely get the A380. They have almost five times as many of these beasts as the other airlines, and thus more flexibility to send it here. Those other airlines mentioned...I sure wouldn't hold my breath.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:52 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 75):
Those other airlines mentioned...I sure wouldn't hold my breath.

Especially not now, with the "Asian invasion", as someone else put it. European airlines are surely losing a slice of the connecting pie on BOS-Asia.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 75):
If Emirates can send a daily A380 to a little dot in the ocean called Mauritius with a population a third that of Boston's, then Logan will surely get the A380.

3 words.....cargo, cargo, cargo. The flights are probably half empty above deck, but full below.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-08-23 08:55:59]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
alphaomega
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:08 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 76):
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 75):
If Emirates can send a daily A380 to a little dot in the ocean called Mauritius with a population a third that of Boston's, then Logan will surely get the A380.

3 words.....cargo, cargo, cargo. The flights are probably half empty above deck, but full below.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-08-23 08:55:59]

If it was a 773 then yes, but an A380 sucks for cargo capacity - its similar to a 772 or 333.

Quoting Miami (Reply 73):

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
LH

Lufthansa has 12 in fleet. With only 2 left on order.

List of where Lufthansa sends the A380.
New York
Shanghai
Houston
Johannesburg
Miami
Beijing
San Francisco
Singapore

My next bet would be LAX. Something much more logical for LH.

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
AF

Air France has 10 in fleet. With only 2 left on order.

List of where Air France sends the A380.
Los Angeles
New York
Washington DC
Johannesburg
Shanghai
Hong Kong
Abidjan
Miami

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
BA

British Airways has 6 in fleet. With only 6 left on order.

List of where British Airways sends the A300.
Los Angeles
Hong Kong
Johannesburg
Washington
Singapore

Future could be: Beijing, Tokyo, Miami and Shanghai.



Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
EK

Best bet.

Good summary, however I can confirm the others (AF, LH, EK) will bring the A380 to BOS except for BA. Everyone seems to think they would (with 3 744s departing withing 5hrs in the evening) but have not yet said as such, the others have.

BOS is a good market for the premium business traffic more so than anything else, which is the push for the new and pretty aircraft, latest cabins, etc. not so much just looking a capacity. LH has wanted to bring the 747-8 in for some time but lacked the mx support, so they flew in the engineer for the past 2 days when they operated the 747-8 for LH423 and today for LH421.
 
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Miami
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:17 pm

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 77):
I can confirm the others (AF, LH, EK) will bring the A380 to BOS

How exactly do you know? Do you have a source?

Again, it's very unlikely that AF and LH will ever send the A380 to BOS. The lack of A380s in fleet is a problem.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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adamh8297
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
Yes, yes and yes - Massport turned them down due to their planned schedule, but expect them to sort that out for next year.

Planned schedule??? Did they want to arrive/depart at peak Transatlantic times?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
alphaomega
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RE: CX To Boston!

Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:48 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 79):

Quoting alphaomega (Reply 71):
Yes, yes and yes - Massport turned them down due to their planned schedule, but expect them to sort that out for next year.

Planned schedule??? Did they want to arrive/depart at peak Transatlantic times?

Not sure if you call it peak transatlantic times, but peak time for Terminal E. Sad to see, as looking at most of the W14 schedules the peak shifts towards the afternoon 1300-1800 or very late evening 2200-2300.
 
stratacruiser
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RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:16 am

Quoting airway1 (Reply 12):
Flights out of Boston operate that late? I thought the airport shuts down at around 10:30.

No, that's just the city's nighlife   There are currently arrivals scheduled after 1am.

Dave
 
b747400erf
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RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:49 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 76):
3 words.....cargo, cargo, cargo. The flights are probably half empty above deck, but full below.

If the cargo was so lucrative they'd send a smaller pax airplane and a Skycargo 777F.
 
airbazar
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RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:44 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 18):
... which isn't surprising, since BOS is, to say the least, less than ideal for domestic connections

Uh? From Asia, BOS is pretty darn good for all of the Eastern seaboard. BOS-China/HK/Korea/Japan are all polar routes.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bos-pek...Abos-pty%0D%0Abos-atl&MS=wls&DU=nm
 
commavia
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RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 83):
Uh? From Asia, BOS is pretty darn good for all of the Eastern seaboard. BOS-China/HK/Korea/Japan are all polar routes.

But it is still suboptimal because it can never offer the breadth of connectivity - number of connecting destinations, nor frequency - that larger, stronger hubs (ATL, ORD, EWR, DTW, etc.) can. Will people connect in BOS? Sure - it will no doubt happen, but it will never amount to the volume of connections moving through actual hubs throughout the eastern U.S.
 
airbazar
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RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:21 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 84):

But it is still suboptimal because it can never offer the breadth of connectivity - number of connecting destinations, nor frequency - that larger, stronger hubs (ATL, ORD, EWR, DTW, etc.) can

That depends on whether the airline is a B6 partner or not  
Quoting commavia (Reply 84):
Will people connect in BOS? Sure - it will no doubt happen, but it will never amount to the volume of connections moving through actual hubs throughout the eastern U.S.

It doesn't have to and it's not physically possible. We're a value hub not a volume hub   It is however a good connecting hub between Asia and the eastern U.S. and it's only getting better with the new airside connection between terminals E and C.
 
aryonoco
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RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:48 pm

CX has a major presence in Australia, and the arrival time at HKG works perfectly for connections to some of CX's flights to MEL and SYD as well.

The BOS-Australia O&D is second highest from east coast (after NYC), and it's actually a decently high number (higher than ORD if I remember correctly). CX will definitely steal a few Australia bound passengers from others.
 
airbazar
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RE: CX To Boston!

Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:26 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 86):

The BOS-Australia O&D is second highest from east coast (after NYC), and it's actually a decently high number (higher than ORD if I remember correctly). CX will definitely steal a few Australia bound passengers from others.

Quite likely but in reality this is about demand to/from Hong Kong and Southeast China. Massachusetts is the only state in the U.S. where the Chinese are the largest immigrant population.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/20.../x4doHp4zOgkQuzo3eIQIeL/story.html
 
jetblue1965
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RE: CX To Boston!

Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 87):

Quite likely but in reality this is about demand to/from Hong Kong and Southeast China. Massachusetts is the only state in the U.S. where the Chinese are the largest immigrant population.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/20.../x4doHp4zOgkQuzo3eIQIeL/story.html

Looking at PA, I'm surprised neither EK nor EY has arrived at PHL considering it's 1 of 3 states that India is the largest group. EWR-India is well served so it'll be quite a while before the ME3 shows up.
 
jfkgig
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RE: CX To Boston!

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:45 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 87):
Quite likely but in reality this is about demand to/from Hong Kong and Southeast China. Massachusetts is the only state in the U.S. where the Chinese are the largest immigrant population.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/20.../x4doHp4zOgkQuzo3eIQIeL/story.html

The Boston area is also amongst the largest Vietnamese and Cambodian communities in the United States -- and that flight is well timed for connections to SGN, HAN, and PNH.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: CX To Boston!

Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:17 am

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 89):
The Boston area is also amongst the largest Vietnamese and Cambodian communities in the United States -- and that flight is well timed for connections to SGN, HAN, and PNH.

I wouldn't be too sure that Cambodians travel home that often.

I've seen data that PDEW has been under 10 on BOS-PNH. Granted it is likely that some may have gone to HKG BKK or SIN on separate tickets first and were not counted in MIDT numbers.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
jfkgig
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am

RE: CX To Boston!

Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:35 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 90):
I wouldn't be too sure that Cambodians travel home that often.

I've seen data that PDEW has been under 10 on BOS-PNH. Granted it is likely that some may have gone to HKG BKK or SIN on separate tickets first and were not counted in MIDT numbers.

I suspect that they do, and given the number of Cambodians in the Lowell/Lynn, MA area, and the number of travel agents which service them, this is but another example of PDEW data grossly undercounting actual travel patterns in many places. This data can't -- and doesn't purport -- to capture the many travelers who take a train, bus, or shuttle flight to NYC or elsewhere to begin their journey, or those who connect on separate tickets on low cost carriers in HKG, BKK, SEL, KUL, etc.

Also, as economists know as "Say's Law," supply can sometimes create its own demand. CX has been quite expert in fostering air routes that have created demand, by putting Hong Kong within easy reach of places where the length and difficulty of the journey assured that demand would heretofore stay low.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9897
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: CX To Boston!

Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:57 am

What is shocking to me is that all these markets didn't just materialize over night. It's always been here and yet, our domestic airlines have systematically neglected to take advantage of it. For a while the excuse was "lack of appropriate aircraft". But EK, TK, and now CX are all using aircraft that are 10-20 years old.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: CX To Boston!

Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:29 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
horrific departure time.

I disagree. Business travellers like the ability to fly overnight and save a work day.

CX has 2 daily YVR-HKG flights. One leaves at 3 PM and the other at 2 AM. The 2 AM flight arrives at 6 AM so if you can sleep on the flight you can go straight to work. If you take the 3 PM flight you have to pay for another night in a usually expensive HKG hotel.

The 6 AM arrival time also means good connections to almost everywhere in Asia.
 
jfkgig
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:45 am

RE: CX To Boston!

Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:28 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 92):
What is shocking to me is that all these markets didn't just materialize over night. It's always been here and yet, our domestic airlines have systematically neglected to take advantage of it. For a while the excuse was "lack of appropriate aircraft". But EK, TK, and now CX are all using aircraft that are 10-20 years old.

That is so true -- and the only thing lacking was not equipment, but vision. US airlines had a massive advantage in being able to start routes early and grab market share while there was limited competition, but failing to do so and allowing much more dynamic foreign carriers to grab some of the most lucrative parts of key international routes to the United States. Before CX had 5 premium heavy flights a day to HKG from NYC, UA cancelled its JFK-HKG (not to mention its JFK-Brazil flights that it ceded to others) as hopeless money losers, and CO tepidly managed only (at that time) a non-daily HKG service from EWR. This same story has played out throughout the United States, with CX capturing traffic that nobody even realized was there for the taking.

The JFK-SIN route is now sitting there waiting for somebody with a similar sense of vision -- and the 787-9 can manage this route with aplomb. There are untold thousands of meetings that are not occurring because of the lack of a nonstop flight between these two business capitals. There is Open Skies between USA-Sing., and given that no current carriers seem interested in serving this market -- most noticeably not SQ -- hopefully somebody will step in.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4135
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: CX To Boston!

Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:05 pm

There's a compelling reason for international flag carriers (often propped up by governments) to be quicker on the uptake of these 'secondary' markets: Our money. If you're a country that wants to attract Americans waving dollars ready to convert and spend, you'll do what is necessary to see that the planes are available to carry them there.
 
airbazar
Posts: 9897
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: CX To Boston!

Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:28 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 94):
and given that no current carriers seem interested in serving this market -- most noticeably not SQ -- hopefully somebody will step in.

Unfortunately SQ doesn't have the plane yet. I am 100% convinced that SIN-NYC will return with an A359  
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 95):
There's a compelling reason for international flag carriers (often propped up by governments) to be quicker on the uptake of these 'secondary' markets: Our money. If you're a country that wants to attract Americans waving dollars ready to convert and spend, you'll do what is necessary to see that the planes are available to carry them there.


Actually, our lack of money. Americans are not the ones filling these seats. Just stand at the arrivals hall in terminal E, in the afternoon and you will see that the vast majority of arrivals are foreigners. Americans no longer can afford to travel overseas like they used to, either because of diminishing buying power relative to foreigners, or because they lack the vacation time to travel much beyond Europe or the Caribbean. The U.S. Dollar is incredibly cheap these days and that is attracting a lot of people to our country.

The compelling reason for carriers to start these routes is the growing middle class in the developing world and their ever increasing purchasing power compared to Americans. The Chinese outspend just about everyone else, wherever they go. But those are markets that U.S. carriers could have had but they and the Euro carriers chose to instead focus on their alliances and myopic hub operations while neglecting strong markets like BOS.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: CX To Boston!

Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting jfkgig (Reply 94):
That is so true -- and the only thing lacking was not equipment, but vision. US airlines had a massive advantage in being able to start routes early and grab market share while there was limited competition, but failing to do so and allowing much more dynamic foreign carriers to grab some of the most lucrative parts of key international routes to the United States. Before CX had 5 premium heavy flights a day to HKG from NYC, UA cancelled its JFK-HKG (not to mention its JFK-Brazil flights that it ceded to others) as hopeless money losers, and CO tepidly managed only (at that time) a non-daily HKG service from EWR. This same story has played out throughout the United States, with CX capturing traffic that nobody even realized was there for the taking.

It also has to do with the directional flow. Small-town Asia visiting big-town US is much higher rate than small-town US visiting big-town Asia. The same story applies to multiple airports in Asia, except NRT (destinations not frequencies) :

ICN to continental US
KE 10?
OZ 5
DL 2
UA 1
AA 1

TPE to continental US
BR 4
CI 3
UA 1
DL 0
AA 0

HKG to continental US
CX 6 (inc BOS)
UA 3
AA 1
DL 1

PEK to continental US
CA 5 (inc IAD)
UA 4
HU 3
DL 2
AA 1
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 2889
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:55 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 92):
What is shocking to me is that all these markets didn't just materialize over night. It's always been here and yet, our domestic airlines have systematically neglected to take advantage of it. For a while the excuse was "lack of appropriate aircraft". But EK, TK, and now CX are all using aircraft that are 10-20 years old.

What's so shocking?

Its not as if DL, UA or AA was going to start BOS-IST, BOS-DXB or BOS-HKG 10-20 years ago. These "markets" you speak of are pretty small. Its the connections that EK, TK and CX bring to the table that make their service to BOS viable.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 96):
Actually, our lack of money. Americans are not the ones filling these seats. Just stand at the arrivals hall in terminal E, in the afternoon and you will see that the vast majority of arrivals are foreigners. Americans no longer can afford to travel overseas like they used to, either because of diminishing buying power relative to foreigners, or because they lack the vacation time to travel much beyond Europe or the Caribbean. The U.S. Dollar is incredibly cheap these days and that is attracting a lot of people to our country.

Rubbish. What lack of money?

Americans do have money, more so that the average middle class Chinese, Indian, or any other foreign middle class citizen. The problem is, Americans don't travel abroad as much as other nationalities do, because its not in your culture to do so. That's why planes are filled more with foreigners than Americans.

There is a reason why North America still has the largest airline industry in the world. There is a reason why the US domestic market is one of the biggest in the world, and there is a reason why all US airlines make over 70% of their revenues off of domestic flights. Because that's what Americans like to do, to keep it domestic.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-09-01 00:11:43]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
cx828
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:21 pm

RE: CX To Boston!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:03 am

USA has so many characteristic that other country don;t have. They are very large in term of land, rich and well developed, and significant lots of people, i think you need three factors to support a strong domestic market. For example, First category, China, Russia, India, big enough, lots of people, but nor consider to be rich country. Second category, Japan, Germany, England, France are rich country, significant population, but small, not much places to fly to. Third category, Canada, Australia, big enough, high GDP per capital, but scarce of population. USA is the only country in the world which is large enough, rich enough and high population to support such as high domestic market.

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