BA Patent - New Long Haul J Seats?

NZ107 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:24 am

I came across this article about a new BA patent.. Could it be their next J seat in he A350?

http://www.ausbt.com.au/is-this-brit...gen-club-world-business-class-seat

Most interesting herringbone design, if it ends up being the new seat. Sitting straight but having the space of a herringbone. I have a feeling that it could feel quite claustrophobic and a triangular meal tray is interesting..

timboflier215 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:19 am

Looks interesting. Club World has definitely fallen behind the competition, but it's a shame they didn't update it with the introduction of the 787 and A380....

bunumuring · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:33 am

That looks fantastic! I love the design. I detest seats/suites/whatever that block or make difficult viewing out the windows. This design seems to alleviate that. It's a clever design that ticks all of my boxes.
My question: would Iberia follow suit with this design?
Congratulations to Nigel Goode for another exemplary interior design.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

Nouflyer · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:48 am

They've had over a decade since Virgin Atlantic's Upper Class Suite, and they come up with a poor man's knock-off in which you have to prop yourself up with pillows to recline?

It's extraordinary.

parapente · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:58 am

Well spotted and thanks for the info.The 350's will certainly have a nice cabin.As stated one assumes it will be fot Iberia as well.I see no reason that such a design could not work for their 777's as well if required. I don't know the widths but perhaps this layout could work in a similar way for the upper deck of an A380 eventually?

aviationaware · Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:08 am

It looks a very nice concept, it takes elements from the swinging chair workspace configuration in American's First Class and looks like it has great living space characteristics.
It would be very interesting to learn how this design performs on a space needed basis compared to the Cirrus seat and related developments, as this would be where the cookie crumbles.

However, as Nouflyer points out rightly, the pictures available don't show a satisfying solution for normal seat recline. If there isn't anything like that, the seat will be crap, no matter all the other features.

Nouflyer · Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:18 am

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 5):
However, as Nouflyer points out rightly, the pictures available don't show a satisfying solution for normal seat recline. If there isn't anything like that, the seat will be crap, no matter all the other features.

I fear so.

I get the impression that the designer has spent many a drunken night sleeping at an old-fashioned English bus stop, where the high wall gives some protection against the rain while you lie sideways on a narrow bench. At other times you can wedge yourself upright in the corner to reduce your exposure to the wind or rain.

It's terrific as a bus stop design. Not quite so good as a Business Class seat.

Already the Virgin Atlantic and Air New Zealand versions of the Upper Class Suite are much nicer than the unlicensed Delta and Air Canada imitations because of the motorised reversible configuration which allows significant recline even when the seat isn't inverted into a flat bed.

But this concept seems to head very much in the Delta and Air Canada direction.

DexSwart · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:27 am

Well, this is actually a herringbone that I like. It looks very cozy and comfortable. I'm definitely a fan of the fact you can stil see out the window by the looks of those sketches.

Bongodog1964 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:31 am

Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 3):

They've had over a decade since Virgin Atlantic's Upper Class Suite, and they come up with a poor man's knock-off in which you have to prop yourself up with pillows to recline?

It's extraordinary.

Are you looking at the same concept photos as I am ? I'm looking at a seat which can either be a forward facing recliner, or a side facing recliner/flat bed.

MonsieurX · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:34 am

Regardless of the recline situation (which I do hope they'd fix properly before bringing any such seat to market), it does seem to be an excellent solution to the problem I find in many lie-flat seats/beds, in that they may well be long enough, yet they don't provide any sort of room to lie on your side and tuck your knees up (which I personally find to be a much more comfortable sleeping position...).

Still, I guess this is only a patent at the moment, and any product brought to market may well be significantly different/be nothing of the sort, but very interesting nonetheless.

X

Francoflier · Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:03 pm

Great!
If you're a side sleeper who exclusively lie on your right side, you can reserve a seat on the right side of the aircraft, and vice versa.

And if you're a back sleeper, you can reserve a seat on a different airline.

Brilliant concept!

fetzervalve · Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:16 pm

The patent is applied for. Would be good to know exactly what the claims are for this application. I don't know how long the British patent office takes to prosecute but in the US it would likely be 2 years before publication (public notice of the application) and another year for the potential award. This likely doesn't need a patent to maintain monetary value anyway.

lhrnue · Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:01 pm

I guess we need to see the real deal to make a proper judgement and not only sketches in patent application. My own good or bad criteria is, I need to lie flat on my back and need a bed length of 190cm. If it ticks this box, I think it will be quite nice way to fly.

runway23 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:11 pm

There are some pictures in the following document

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-ipsum/Document/ApplicationNumber/GB1408877.7/29defea5-bdc4-4d02-809d-7cc2a3590a54/GB2510765-20140522-Priority%20document.pdf

OM617 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:16 pm

Very interesting design, at least someone is trying to come up with creative solutions.

The lack of a recline feature, as previously pointed out, is a concern. Even the "crouched in a corner" scenario is questionable; I seriously doubt I could get comfortable in that position. Just looking at it makes my lower back ache...

Also, note the position of the seat belts in the second drawing (third, if you include the preview before the text). Presumably, if you were reclining on the pillow in the corner, when the seat belt light came on, you'd have to scoot yourself back to the center of the seat where the belts are positioned. I also can't see how the belt works when one is lying down.

I hope they refine the design and functions of this seat before it gets installed. Anyone know if they have tested a mock-up with select Club World clients?

OM617

Planeflyer · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Does anyone see these fancy seats as just being too much? I assume going with the side by side, lie flat seats an extra seat could fit in each row. If this is the case would it make sense for a high frequency airline like BA to have two levels of business class?

Speaking for myself on many flights all I need is a lie flat seat to get some sleep. I won say the privacy afforded by these seats doesn't help but with modern medicine like Lunesta it certainly is not required.

cedarjet · Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:02 pm

I hope it's not facing away from the window. If so, it's definitely a step in the wrong direction. I know many frequent travellers in J - including me - consider the original herringbone of AC, NZ and VS inferior to the later "reverse herringbone" of CX, AA, BR which definitely seems to be an evolution - same space-saving arrangement but a much more enjoyable ride.

readytotaxi · Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
I hope it's not facing away from the window. If so, it's definitely a step in the wrong direction

Thumbs up to that, you want to see where you are going.

haynflyer · Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:17 pm

I think one of the major benefits aside from creativity, is that nothing is motorized saving on weight, engineering complexity and maintenance.

Although I prefer the privacy offered by the TG-style business class seats on their A380's, one of the most comfortable business class seat was on an old Hawaii-version UA 777 upholstered in cloth and with manual recline and footrests. What it lacked in IFE, novelty and privacy, it more than made up for in comfort on a long-haul flight.

aviationaware · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):

I hope it's not facing away from the window.

That's fairly clearly visible from the patent pictures. Seating arrangement is forward facing, sleeping is inward facing toward the aisle.

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 18):
I think one of the major benefits aside from creativity, is that nothing is motorized saving on weight, engineering complexity and maintenance.

If nothing is motorized on this seat, it will suck. It needs a reclining function for seating, albeit limited like the one SQ's new seat is sporting.

ClassicLover · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:08 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 13):
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-ipsum/Document/ApplicationNumber/GB1408877.7/29defea5-bdc4-4d02-809d-7cc2a3590a54/GB2510765-20140522-Priority%20document.pdf

Thanks for the link to that document - the pictures in there are so much better than the drawings!

Quoting OM617 (Reply 14):
The lack of a recline feature, as previously pointed out, is a concern. Even the "crouched in a corner" scenario is questionable; I seriously doubt I could get comfortable in that position. Just looking at it makes my lower back ache...

I thought the same thing, but then having a look at it, you don't need it. Why?

Your sofa at home doesn't recline and people sit and sleep on them all the time. Plus you're only on a long haul flight from 8-12 hours, so it's not going to be a problem.

It looks really good - it will be great if it gets made! The company will save money too as there will be no recline mechanism which means no maintenance. Also there seems to be large bit of storage area under the couch too, which could be handy.

aviationaware · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:15 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
Plus you're only on a long haul flight from 8-12 hours, so it's not going to be a problem.

Going by that logic, neither is lacking IFE, direct aisle access or a flet bed for that matter.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 20):
Your sofa at home doesn't recline and people sit and sleep on them all the time.

I have a pretty nice sofa and yet I get uncomfortable on it after a couple hours, way earlier than 12 hours in.

MonsieurX · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:20 pm

Having looked further at the original patent document, it looks as if BA are trying to 'sell' the lack of recline as a feature which a) saves weight (environmental savings), b) reduces the chances of electrical component malfunction (reliability and serviceability), and c) provides more personal/stowage space for the passenger through the removal of said mechanisms.

I will be very interested to see how/if this pans out. On the one hand, I'm tempted to think that it may work very well, since the seat appears to have a very fluid design and layout to it, and ground-based items of furniture such as sofas and lounge chairs have worked very well for hundreds of years without any sort of recline functionality. On the other hand, it is straying very far from the current business class 'norm' and established practice. Is it possible that we've simply become so ingrained to the idea of 'more advanced being better', and that because other carriers have electronic business seats, BA must as well??? Interesting thoughts...

X

aviationaware · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting MonsieurX (Reply 22):
Interesting thoughts...

Indeed. But please remember that premium seats recline for a reason. They have to fulfill several functions nowadays, which in addition to sleeping (bed) and sitting (upright seat) encompass lounging, especially on day flights. If lounging were not possible and I don't need a bed, I could just as well book Economy Class.
Lounging in this design is limited to basically 'sitting on a bed' propped against the headboard. No leg support, no massage function or other perk, no nothing. Not very convincing in my eyes.

ncelhr · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:52 pm

I feel nervous about this design already. Ideally on a flight, I'd like my head and face to go on a part of the seat that usually has heads & faces resting on it. Looking at the diagram, it looks like my head could be resting on the seat itself, hence where bums & feet have gone (the diagram itself shows this). Yukky, unless BA would supply mattresses like Emirates does.

RedChili · Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting MonsieurX (Reply 22):
ground-based items of furniture such as sofas and lounge chairs have worked very well for hundreds of years without any sort of recline functionality.

These pieces of furniture are usually located in a home, where you have several rooms and multiple pieces of furniture to fill all your needs.

In an airplane, on the other hand, all of your needs (with the exception of bathroom needs) will have to be fulfilled in your seat for periods of up to 24 hours (such as the Kangaroo route). That includes eating, working, sleeping, resting, reading, being entertained, etc. That requires a more technically advanced seat than your home sofa.

MonsieurX · Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:33 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 23):
please remember that premium seats recline for a reason. They have to fulfill several functions nowadays

Quoting RedChili (Reply 25):
These pieces of furniture are usually located in a home, where you have several rooms and multiple pieces of furniture to fill all your needs.

These are all very fair and pertinent critiques, and I should be the first to concede that my ideas and thoughts are liable to be imperfect (especially when compared to some of the other far more experienced and qualified forum members). I do freely admit to being slightly perplexed and in some ways troubled by this proposed design, precisely because it doesn't have a suitable recline feature. However, I guess that the point I was trying to make (yet which I perhaps didn't put as eloquently as I could) is that there's always going to be more than one way to work around an issue. Whilst I'm unsure if BA is going to be it, maybe someone will come along one day who will provide a design which makes us completely re-evaluate how we view business class seating.

Since I'm completely unfamiliar with the internal workings and operations of BA, I'm also unsure as to how much of this design we may or may not see rolled out in the future. It may well be (we can at least hope) that they combine the basic shape and certain elements of the above patent with a reclining back (a la Singapore), which is presumably a relatively basic element which they may not have felt the need to include in the patent (or on the back of focus groups etc.). Whatever they end up doing, it's likely to be a departure from the previous two Club World incarnations which they've employed.

X

P.S. I must also apologise to ClassicLover. Having had a chance to fully review the thread once more, I now realise that whilst I was formulating some points to put into my original post, he had already pipped me to it several minutes earlier. Any over-lap was completely unintentional.

[Edited 2014-08-24 15:41:51]

FlyCaledonian · Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:46 pm

If it comes with several cushions I'd be happy with it. That would allow people to prop/support themselves as they want.

I think though this indicates that BA is looking at the next evolution of its Club World product. And let's not forget that BA was first to have lie-flat in First Class, then introduced it in Club World.

SCQ83 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:03 pm

I like the idea. It is like creating a small pod. Somehow I feel some connection to the innovate solutions you see in those 300 sqft housing prototypes for NYC or SFO, or the pod solutions used in tech offices or libraries.

Given the rise of HNWI and techies, maybe the next trend in Business Class will be to create spaces that feel more "loungy" and "chill-out" rather than just a boring corporate seat for your typical businessman. For instance, in the 1c. image at page 21 of the PDF, the woman checking her phone on that position looks like something out of a startup lounge rather than a traditional business setting.

BestWestern · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:51 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 28):
Given the rise of HNWI and techies, maybe the next trend in Business Class will be to create spaces that feel more "loungy" and "chill-out" rather than just a boring corporate seat for your typical businessman. For instance, in the 1c. image at page 21 of the PDF, the woman checking her phone on that position looks like something out of a startup lounge rather than a traditional business setting.

Interesting point and very millennial.

DocLightning · Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:16 am

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 21):
I have a pretty nice sofa and yet I get uncomfortable on it after a couple hours, way earlier than 12 hours in.

I think that what you're missing is that the seat seems to have a built-in "recline." If you sit facing one way, your seatback is upright. If you sit facing the other way, your seatback is reclined. And there's fully-flat. What it doesn't have is the infinity of adjustable positions a reclining seat has. I can see that working out well or poorly, depending on your habits.

However, it is really very difficult to design a seat that is going to be comfortable for 12 hours straight. You would hardly ever sit in any chair for 12 hours straight on the ground.

It seems to me, however, that the main dinner tray is awkwardly located for the passenger.

AIR MALTA · Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:05 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):
I think that what you're missing is that the seat seems to have a built-in "recline." If you sit facing one way, your seatback is upright. If you sit facing the other way, your seatback is reclined. And there's fully-flat.

Correct, that's displayed in the drawings with positions 2a and 2b. I quite like the concept. If BA were to give the right pillows, it will certainely create a cosiness feel that is lacking in the current Business Class offering. I am someone who can not sleep in one position and needs to change every half an hour. I feel this will really match my sleepinh habits as I would be able to sleep on the back or on the side. I also like to look outside and it seems this concept is perfectly fine with that. In a sitting position you have a normal access to the window as if you were sitting in Economy.

1400mph · Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:08 am

Come on peeps...it's a drawing. All they've done is get something down on paper so they can patent the 'swivel thing'.

It's a million miles from being 'reality' at this stage.

qf002 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:17 am

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 32):
Come on peeps...it's a drawing. All they've done is get something down on paper so they can patent the 'swivel thing'.

Take a look at the photos that runway23 linked to in reply 13 -- I'd say this has gone well beyond the "getting something down on paper" stage.

Interestingly, it looks like they might also be planning to do something similar to new First with the sidewalls. While I'm not convinced by the concept of these seats (or the execution -- that bed looks short and awkward), I imagine the cabin could be quite striking visually.

NZ107 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:28 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 30):

I suppose there'll be some downsides to it.. Such as having to reposition yourself just to be able to recline. And not having a conventional footrest for using the reclined bit isn't what I'd want.

KarelXWB · Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:33 am

Photos of the prototype are now available:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/photos-briti...lub-world-business-class-prototype

1400mph · Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:55 am

Is there somewhere I can stick my c**k to get an automated blowjob ?

I know that's incredibly crude but do you see the point I'm making ?

Are we all this precious ?

(and yes I like to travel 'business' as much as the next person but where's it all going to end ?)

Surely 'flat bed enabled', TV screen and tray to work on is good enough for business class on any airline ?

This all comes down to state owned transfer dependent airlines being ridiculous.

usdcaguy · Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:06 pm

The potential pitfalls:

- No seat belt available for those in a reclined position
- Few angles are provided by the pillow to recline, while the usual recline is available in multiple angles.
- Little couch and little scrunched up legs are an unlikely coupling in this scenario
- Very difficult to eat dinner in a slightly reclined position, one of my favorite business class pastimes
- Not enough room at the feet, producing a coffin-like effet

The main perks:

- Great cozy feeling in the seat
- Smaller pillows much easier to manage than one huge pillow ready for a float down the river
- Side cocktail table
- Adjustable television monitor to watch T.V. from a reclined position

I don't see how the heavy and/or obese are going to be comfortable lying down in these seats. There is not much room when the seats are flat, and getting in and out of the seat may be problematic.

jumpjets · Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:07 pm

Quoting MonsieurX (Reply 22):
On the other hand, it is straying very far from the current business class 'norm' and established practice

Which is where BA went last time they did a J class total overhaul - they reinvented the business class experience with the lie flat bed and now that's regarded as the norm - maybe in 10 years time we will regard this as the standard to which others aspire - or maybe we won't - time and production complexities will tell.

One more question springs to mind - if this does come to fruition what are they going to do about the F class experience to make it worth the extra cost, or is this phase 1 in the demise of F for all but say the A380s where more space to create a more advanced F class exists.

1400mph · Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:14 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 38):
One more question springs to mind - if this does come to fruition what are they going to do about the F class experience to make it worth the extra cost, or is this phase 1 in the demise of F for all but say the A380s where more space to create a more advanced F class exists.

I hope not.

Isn't it rather telling that the airlines that have bars, showers, suites etc are either state owned or loss making ?

There is only so far the 'mortals' of this industry can go with all this.

The price of oil will dictate how much space we will get before the fare becomes too much for the 'not quite private jet' wealthy.

SCQ83 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:26 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 29):
Interesting point and very millennial.

I didn't intend to be millennial, but I find it funny that you mention it. Maybe this is the first Millennial Business Class ever?

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 36):
Surely 'flat bed enabled', TV screen and tray to work on is good enough for business class on any airline ?

Business class' seats have been always targeted to corporate, middle-age men. The world is evolving and more diverse people are flying J those days. However business class has always evolved mainly technically, offering more positions, flatter beds, more buttons, larger screens. It is like Mercedes offering a new S-Klasse every few years... the new model has always more gadgets, is safer, has less consumption and better performance... but it is just an evolution. The concept is the same.

This new seat can be more disruptive than it looks. To start with, it seems to break completely with the "more electronic" frenzy. That is a big statement. Also it doesn't seem to have expensive materials for the sake of just writing a nice brochure. I would say that is in line with the "back to the basics" / "less is more" that you see in other industries like fashion, interior design or cars. And then questions the very meaning of "seat". You are not just seating in your seat like you would be in a meeting table in a corporate meeting, but you can basically lounge like at home.

[Edited 2014-08-25 05:32:05]

vv701 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 38):
One more question springs to mind - if this does come to fruition what are they going to do about the F class experience to make it worth the extra cost, or is this phase 1 in the demise of F for all but say the A380s where more space to create a more advanced F class exists.

We could be seeing the beginning of the demise of 'F' Class.

Last November at the IAG Capital Markets Day presentations BA's Lynne Embleton said that that BA's 787-9s would have but eight ' F' Class seats. Compare this with 17 on their small 772A fleet and 14 on all of their 744 fleet. The explanation? Embleton stated that BA's 'F' Class cabins have a lower profitability per square meter than ANY of their other long-haul cabins. So perhaps in another ten or fifteen years . . .

MonsieurX · Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:53 pm

I don't agree that we're going to see the end of F on BA aircraft, but I do believe that a capacity reduction is needed, and could save the airline a lot of money. It seems like a bit of a dinosaur that BA fills its aircraft with 14-17 F seats when other airlines like LH, AF, Swiss etc. are all moving towards 6-8 F seats. From purely anecdotal evidence, having travelled on one of BA's G-XXX... 777s the other week (with 17F seats), at least half of the cabin were upgrades. Whilst statistically irrelevant as a sample, if this trend is continued elsewhere, then surely they need to reassess their supply-demand models. Having engaged in an extensive program to begin 'rightsizing' its fleet, perhaps it's about time BA employed the same tactics in its cabins.

X

1400mph · Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:11 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 41):

Quoting MonsieurX (Reply 42):

The 17 seat 777 First cabin ( of which there are not many ) is for middle eastern routes. ( that's a no brainer )

We see this questioning all the time ref BA.

- LHR is a congested two runway airport high in premium traffic. It is not in BA's interest to deny itself custom.......

- The 8 across forward/rearward Club seat cabin is not ideal from a customer perspective, 17 in First is not ideal from a customer perspective but BA would lose more trade than they would gain by not supplying for demand.

- It's a balance and trade off between maximum revenue and passenger experience.

This is not rocket science.

[Edited 2014-08-25 08:10:19]

[Edited 2014-08-25 08:11:31]

aviationaware · Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:03 pm

These photos in the new ausbt article are very interesting, but I wonder if it shows the real dimensions of the seat. It appears to be just fitting for the woman sleeping, which means it will be plenty short for many men.

loalq · Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:45 pm

Still a rather short bed length at 188cm. An improvement over the existing 183cm but still nothing like a bed. It is actually even shorter than the standard asian-spec bed (190cm)...

timboflier215 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:21 pm

This seat seems to have a couple of up-sides from BA's POV as well:

- as mentioned above, no mechanical workings which add weight and maintenance costs
- it means BA are able to move to the new industry J standard of 1-2-1 whilst still keeping a dense seating arrangement - the gap between seats seems a lot tighter in the images than the Cirrus/Zodiac seats, for example. But that may be my eyes deceiving me....

vv701 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:25 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 43):
We see this questioning all the time ref BA.

I am bot questioning BA. I simply repeated the gist of what Lynne Embleton, BA Director - Strategy and Business Units said at her IAG Capital Markets Day presentation.

If you prefer a quote from the transcript of her presentation, here it is:

"The other things that the new fleet has allowed us to do is we look at how we use floor space across the airplanes. And we know that profitability per square meter of floor space for example, is lower for first class than it is for the rest of our long-haul cabins. So we've taken this opportunity to relook at how we use floor space.

"You'll see that the A380 has a lower percentage of first-class seats than the aircraft it's replacing. And the 787-9 when that comes into our fleet in 2016 will be fitted out with eight first-class seats. Today we see around about 50% seats actually served. So by right-sizing first-class that will enable us to generate more revenue from our assets. "

SCQ83 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:25 pm

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 38):
One more question springs to mind - if this does come to fruition what are they going to do about the F class experience to make it worth the extra cost, or is this phase 1 in the demise of F for all but say the A380s where more space to create a more advanced F class exists.

Etihad and their Apartments?. Full sofa/bed, ottoman and more a "living room" feeling?

I would say that despite all the differences, there are some points in common between this new J and Etihad's new products. They seem to put an effort in creating a more "homey" feeling (Etihad also use sofa cushions, yet in decorative way) rather than very corporate (Lufthansa) or flashy (Emirates) environment. Both of them get this extra space without sacrificing much square footage.

Traditional suites (EK, SQ) feel very enclosed compared to Etihad's new F class like traditional business class seems more enclosed compared than this proposal.

DocLightning · Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:04 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 36):
I know that's incredibly crude but do you see the point I'm making ?

Are we all this precious ?

For up to $10K r/t on a transatlantic flight, yes.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 41):
We could be seeing the beginning of the demise of 'F' Class.

That's nothing new. VS doesn't have a true "F." Nor does DL. Many airlines have decided that offering a premium J product is sufficient. But I think that a very few airlines will continue to offer an F product on select aircraft flying select routes because there is a small, but lucrative market for such a product from the wealthy who perhaps cannot afford NetJets all the time, but still like to travel in luxury. And BA, given their brand and market, is probably such an airline.

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