Ethiopian Airlines To Make Widebody Order Soon

Miami · Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:31 pm

In an interview with Tewolde Gebremariam (Ethiopian Airlines CEO). Ethiopian Airlines will announce next week an order of around 70 new widebody aircraft. It'll be between the 777X and the A350-1000.

The deal would be about $8 billion. All depending on the aircraft that they decide to order.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...n-air-orders-idUSL4N0QK5ZJ20140814

What's your pick? 777X or A350-1000.

My pick: 777X

-Miami

na · Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:39 pm

70 of such big planes, for an African Airline? Hard to think that that could work out. Beside that, which 777X thats the question? I think the -9 is too big to expect such a large order.

In any case it´ll mean other sizable 777 operator who´ll part with their fleet prematurely. Whats good for Boeing will be bad for the owners of current 777s in future, their value will drop drastically, and there is not a used-plane market even closely large enough to swallow the huge numbers of older 77Ws coming to the market. Other than in the past for most airlines the motto is new planes or nothing!

Miami · Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting na (Reply 1):
70 of such big planes, for an African Airline?

Exactly what I was thinking. They have exactly 70 planes in their fleet right now.

I guess the plan is to expand it's network. But personally, I would like them to order the 777X. But do they really need that much plane?

Quoting na (Reply 1):
I think the -9 is too big to expect such a large order.

I would expect a 777-8X order. If they do indeed order the 777X.

pjc747 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):

Quoting na (Reply 1):
70 of such big planes, for an African Airline?

Exactly what I was thinking. They have exactly 70 planes in their fleet right now.

Well look at Emirates, they will have 51 A380s with 89 on order; they have 129 777-family aircraft with 202 on order. These are massive orders for a lot of planes, and your first impression isn't that an airline in the Persian Gulf would have such a network and fleet, but they do. You look at a city like Hong Kong or Paris, which are great centers of trade and travel and such, and their main airlines, which have a similar monopoly or majority of an oligopoly over their capital city do not approach what Emirates does. It isn't far-fetched to say with good management and with some restraint that Ethiopian could become a larger, more successful airline.

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
I would expect a 777-8X order. If they do indeed order the 777X.

If they are also considering the A350-1000 as the article said, then the 777-8X makes sense. It will provide phenomenal range to serve almost any airport.

bunumuring · Sun Aug 24, 2014 3:47 pm

I think it could be split order ... And certainly not 70 firm orders straight away but say 40 firm and 30 options or something of the like.
If it's 777, I reckon it could be a combination of -300ERs, -200Fs, -8Xs and -9Xs. The -300ERs (say, 6-8) cpuld provide for near term expansion. The -200Fs (say, 2-4) could expand the cargo arm. The -8Xs (say, 8-12) could open new ULH flights to places like Sydney and South America and expand services to places the current -200LRs fly (eg. Nonstop US services). They would also replace the current -200LRs (turned into freighters???). The -9Xs (say, 12-16) would replace the earliest -300ERs first and expand services on the heavier, denser routes. That's 40 777s there, and what a sweet deal I'm sure Boeing would do. Bet they would love to sell a few more Dreamliners to ET as well!
The A350s? Yes, I can see an order for more, perhaps another dozen to expand their fleet.
I still think that Airbus will get the narrow body order, for A320neos and A321neos, with the latter swaying the competition Airbus' way over the 737MAX series. I think the A321neo will replace the 757 and some 767s in ET service, and provide a perfect shuttle between ET's four planned African hubs. It would also be an ideal aircraft to fly Africa-Europe routes from the three smaller ET hubs. The A320neos would of course replace the 737NGs. I can also see ET buying CSeries further down the track for thinner routes as a kind of 'ET Express/Regional' operation, particularly from the three smaller hubs.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

behramjee · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:11 pm

Currently, ET's wide body Boeing fleet numbers 29 units and it also has 14 A359s on order + options on 2 B773ERs + 6 B788s. Out of this, the 12 B763ER fleet is to be retired by 2017 and replaced with a mixture of B788s and A359s. So technically speaking, 2020 onwards, ETs WB fleet thus far consists of 14 A359s + 15 B788s + 4 B773ERs totaling 33 aircraft.

To place an order for 70 aircraft means the following:

1. Half of which are likely to be options

2. ET could launch a leasing company for the WB jets

3. ET is placing the order in bulk to ensure favorable delivery slots + pricing and then closer to delivery sell it off at a higher value to a potential customer (asset speculation - similar to U.S. property market crash cause).

4. ET may lease out few of these WB jets to their franchises in Congo, ASKY and Malawi.

[Edited 2014-08-24 10:11:11]

KarelXWB · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:16 pm

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
will announce next week

The article was published on August 14 so the announcement was expected last week.

Miami · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
The article was published on August 14 so the announcement was expected last week.

No. There was another article saying it's next week.

http://bloga350.blogspot.com/2014/08...an-airlines-could-choose-soon.html

And the article I posted here said "by the end of next week". Clearly, it's impossible to be expected last week when it said end of this week.

chiad · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
The article was published on August 14 so the announcement was expected last week.

That's true.
And here's the other thread about slightly the same unless there is to be a narrow and a widebody order.:
ET To Order CSeries, 737 MAX Or A320neo Next Week (by KarelXWB Aug 14 2014 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=6155039&searchid=6155039&s=ET#53

KarelXWB · Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:39 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 7):
There was another article saying it's next week.

Not really, that's just a blog that post old articles from time to time. The blog article is a translated version from http://www.air-journal.fr/2014-08-16...ur-ethiopian-airlines-5112588.html published on August 16.

Quoting Miami (Reply 7):
And the article I posted here said "by the end of next week". Clearly, it's impossible to be expected last week when it said end of this week.

The Reuters article you linked was published on August 14. So "next week" would have been week 34.

[Edited 2014-08-24 09:39:56]

Hamlet69 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:57 pm

Quoting na (Reply 1):
In any case it´ll mean other sizable 777 operator who´ll part with their fleet prematurely.

Since when does ET's 6 77L's and 2 77W's constitute a "sizable 777 operator"? I know you despise the 777, but that's a 'sizable' stretch.

Hamlet69

rotating14 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:12 pm

Ok ok. Next week, tomorrow, close of business on this coming Tuesday. It all means it's imminent. As far as what direction they'll end up going? It'll be for the 777x. I wrote in the A380 combi thread that the CEO is ambitiously expanding its fleet and route map to better compete with the likes of EK QR TK EY etc since they're all in the general region. More 77W's would give them capacity before the 777x comes on line. In terms of type, I see them ordering 15 778's, 10 779's (5 options), 5 777-f's and 5 77W's.

As to not diminish the A351, they could order it too but it's not LIKELY. The Airbus staff are putting on their best foot forward but with Boeing having more than a 70% market share in the continent, it won't be easy. I'm not sure when they would be able to receive A351's if they ordered them tomorrow since the 170+ backlog is smaller than the 777x and 77W, they could get them sooner than the 777's. The kicker is if the ramp up of the A350 goes as planned. If the reason of availability of production slots is plaguing the A351 orders, then that might deter ET from it.

Quote:

“In line with our Vision-2025, we plan to provide more and more non-stop long-haul flights to connect east, west, north and south using the strategic location of our Addis Ababa hub” said Gebremariam. Due to its location, analysts say Ethiopian mainly competes for business with long-haul rivals such as Turkish Airlines and Gulf carriers Emirates, Etihad and Qatar Airways.

Ethiopian Airlines has an order for 12 A350-900 but it has been Boeing´s partner for more than 65 years: Ethiopian Airlines currently operates an all-Boeing fleet of 737, 757, 767, 777 and 787 airplanes in passenger service. It was the first African airline to order the Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

An order for A350-1000 is possible but not easy, after Gebremariam´s comment in an interview last February; "when the 777X comes, as soon as we can get the production slots we will be there".

http://bloga350.blogspot.com/2014/08...irlines-could-choose-soon.html?m=1

KarelXWB · Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 2):
I would expect a 777-8X order. If they do indeed order the 777X.

I can see them ordering 6 to 10 777-8 jets to replace the current 77L fleet in the next decade, in a similar way EY ordered the -8. The remaining aircraft could be divided between 77W (as interim) and 777-9 (for growth).

Quoting pjc747 (Reply 3):
If they are also considering the A350-1000 as the article said, then the 777-8X makes sense. It will provide phenomenal range to serve almost any airport.

The 787, A350 and 777-9 airplanes with their range of 8,000 nm can serve like 98% of all long-haul routes. If they order the 777, I expect the bulk to be for the 77W and 777-9.

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
70 new widebody aircraft

Quoting na (Reply 1):
70 of such big planes

Quoting behramjee (Reply 5):
To place an order for 70 aircraft means the following:

There's another misunderstanding in this thread: the order for 70 aircraft will include narrow-bodies as well.

Miami · Sun Aug 24, 2014 8:59 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
There's another misunderstanding in this thread: the order for 70 aircraft will include narrow-bodies as well.

The blog said "Ethiopia would announce next week an order of around 70 new widebody aircraft"

Viscount724 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:00 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 10):
Quoting na (Reply 1):In any case it´ll mean other sizable 777 operator who´ll part with their fleet prematurely.

Since when does ET's 6 77L's and 2 77W's constitute a "sizable 777 operator"?

For one of the world's poorest countries it's sizable.

I've never understood how very poor countries like Ethiopia (GDP per capital around $1,300) can afford to spend billions on a fleet of widebody aircraft.

KarelXWB · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:07 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 13):
The blog said "Ethiopia would announce next week an order of around 70 new widebody aircraft"

The blog post is based on a translated article and some information was lost during translation. Have a look at the bottom of the blog article, it says "Based on the article 'B777X ou A350 : décision imminente pour Ethiopian Airlines' published in Air Journal". So if you dig up the original article on www.air-journal.fr, you'll see it's a copy of the Reuters article. It says - together with the WSJ article - the order will be for 70 jets, including 30 narrow-bodies (20 firm + 10 options).

[Edited 2014-08-24 14:59:05]

aviationaware · Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:13 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
I've never understood how very poor countries like Ethiopia (GDP per capital around $1,300) can afford to spend billions on a fleet of widebody aircraft.

ET is a very profitable business in an extremely successful niche. Being one of only 2 or 3 serious airlines on an entire continent is a major selling point, note several things:

1) Macroeconomic indicators like per capita GDP are problematic for sub-saharan Africa as a sizable share of the population live in self-sustaining or small community conditions not producing any measurable (as in GDP) economic contribution. Thus, per capita GDP or the people who are indeed potential customers (living in what you might call a 'civilized' (from a western vantage) way) is higher than a simple per capita GDP that encompasses all the population.
2) Despite the poverty of the population in Africa, there are abundant business opportunities largely related to commodities. These opportunities are exploited by Western and Chinese corporations today, and those need a reliable hub carrier taking them past the points of direct access from Europe. This is ET's niche.

Ethiopia and Kenya are the frontrunners in fighting poverty in their hemisphere. There are several promising ventures being developed by Safaricom in particular aimed at providing basic necessities like access to power in the rural areas of Africa (those I called 'uncivilized' above); which is a potential game changer for tens or even hundreds of millions of people. Africa is not the big huge blob of failed states that we tend to make it, there is change going on there and huge potential for economic development if rightly channeled. ET ordering a large amount of planes, and their multi-hub plans, are all a bet on that.

rotating14 · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:36 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):

It's per capita, not capital. In the last 2 years they have increased their GDP 8.5 in 2012, and 9.7 in 2013 which is not too bad for that continent. I'm not an expert but whenever you want to borrow money to buy things like durable goods your credit rating has to be in good shape, not your GDP ranking.

aryonoco · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:37 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 16):
There are several promising ventures being developed by Safaricom in particular aimed at providing basic necessities like access to power

And several services that are unrivalled in the "civilised" world. Safaricom has a service that allows people to send money to anyone else using a simple text message. No smartphone, app, or data subscription required. And you can use it for anything, including paying at the grocery store, or paying for taxi.

There are so many innovative ventures happening in Africa, and at least some parts of the continent have great Entrepreneurial spirits. ET and KY have great geographical locations, I think they will grow to be great success stories in the not-so-distant future.

DocLightning · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:41 pm

Quoting na (Reply 1):

70 of such big planes, for an African Airline? Hard to think that that could work out. Beside that, which 777X thats the question? I think the -9 is too big to expect such a large order.

They're obviously trying to be come the airline for all of Africa, but I agree. They are geographically way off the "silk road."

The 77X family (especially the -8) will offer some amazing range that they could to reach North America, but will probably be less efficient than the A359/10. Honestly, if they really think that they can do 70 airframes, they'd do best to split the order.

Motorhussy · Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:50 pm

Can ET really compete with others in the general area (the confluence of Asia, Europe and Africa) when their hub so distinctly limits the performance of the aircraft using it?

ETinCaribe · Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:10 am

Quoting na (Reply 1):
70 of such big planes, for an African Airline?

I know, this does not exactly fit the stereotypical rhetoric about Africa, so you can adjust your views to fit the changing realities or hope that we fail miserably in our quest to develop.

Quoting behramjee (Reply 5):
To place an order for 70 aircraft means the following:

1. Half of which are likely to be options

2. ET could launch a leasing company for the WB jets

3. ET is placing the order in bulk to ensure favorable delivery slots + pricing and then closer to delivery sell it off at a higher value to a potential customer (asset speculation - similar to U.S. property market crash cause).

4. ET may lease out few of these WB jets to their franchises in Congo, ASKY and Malawi.

Very well summarized behramjee. ET does have a leasing company in the Cayman called Ethiopian Leasing Ltd which I don't think has been super active, just like the MRO business unit which has primarily serviced ET birds. That I think will change very soon for both units. I expect the DRC unit alone to consume 20 frames (including props) by 2020 due to the huge demand and growth.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
There's another misunderstanding in this thread: the order for 70 aircraft will include narrow-bodies as well.

I also think it is both NB+WB jets (so no props here)...

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
For one of the world's poorest countries it's sizable.

I've never understood how very poor countries like Ethiopia (GDP per capital around $1,300) can afford to spend billions on a fleet of widebody aircraft.

Just for reference, SSA (Sub-Saharan Africa) GDP per capita is higher than that of India for roughly the same amount of population. As very well noted by AviationAware, ET's niche and business plan is not really based on Ethiopia, just that ADD is its hub and its business is in connecting Africa to the world and vis versa.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 16):
Ethiopia and Kenya are the frontrunners in fighting poverty in their hemisphere. There are several promising ventures being developed by Safaricom in particular aimed at providing basic necessities like access to power in the rural areas of Africa (those I called 'uncivilized' above); which is a potential game changer for tens or even hundreds of millions of people. Africa is not the big huge blob of failed states that we tend to make it, there is change going on there and huge potential for economic development if rightly channeled. ET ordering a large amount of planes, and their multi-hub plans, are all a bet on that.

ET is the largest company by revenue in East Africa, ~50% more than the aforementioned Safaricom, and still growing fast. As very well put here, ET is very bullish on the future of Africa, and is willing to leverage its strong balance sheet to profit from it. Too many indicators pointing in the right direction for anyone to ignore. China is definitely not ignoring these.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 20):

Can ET really compete with others in the general area (the confluence of Asia, Europe and Africa) when their hub so distinctly limits the performance of the aircraft using it?

ET is very ambitious and is willing to make big bets on that ambitious business plan. The government is planning to build a new airport at lower elevation (~1600-1700m) which should help ET but certainly all other carriers in the ME, Asia don't have that problem.

TWA772LR · Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:42 am

They as ready have A350s on order.

Judging by how ET likes their aircraft to have long legs (77L and 787) I think this is an order destined for the 778.

chiad · Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:49 am

Quoting na (Reply 1):
70 of such big planes, for an African Airline?

That's because you don't realize the current growth rate of ET.
I don't have the 2013 numbers yet, but the turnover grew from 2011 to 2012 with a crazy 36.5% and ET became the largest African carrier this year.
http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/news/prarchive.aspx?id=530

Another thing worth mentioning is that the Ethiopian GDP grew with 10.4% last year.
I don't know another nation in the world who can display these numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if you can count them on 1 hand.
All in all maybe we should drop our pre-considered opinions about Ethiopia and Ethiopian Airlines?

[Edited 2014-08-24 22:55:07]

[Edited 2014-08-24 22:55:34]

aviationaware · Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:29 am

Quoting chiad (Reply 23):
Another thing worth mentioning is that the Ethiopian GDP grew with 10.4% last year.

Worth mentioning, but has to be read correctly. An overall growth rate from sub-sahara can't be compared to say China's or Western countries growth rates.
As I pointed out above, this growth is still happening for a very limited share of the population in the big centers like Addis, which produce a lion's share of the overall GDP there.
Also, look at the absolute terms. If you come from a low point, like African nations do, growing by those rates is not exactly that much of an achievement.

VCEflyboy · Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:41 am

Addis is the HQ of AU and a main investment destination by deep-pocketed Chinese state-owned and private enterprises. They are strategically located to serve all of africa, and subsaharan africa was recently one of the fastest-growing aviation markets in the world - not sure now with the ebola.

whisperjet · Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:07 am

Are there any plans to expand the terminal in ADD?
I was there in June and July and it seemed to be very crowded during the peak hours. If all those planes are going to operate from there (as Ethiopian Airlines) the capacity won't be sufficient.

Stefan

scbriml · Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:18 am

Quoting whisperjet (Reply 26):
Are there any plans to expand the terminal in ADD?

It's not just the terminal that needs expansion. Although ADD has two runways, the northern one has to be used to taxi to the southern one, so dual or parallel operations have to be pretty restricted.

lightsaber · Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:22 am

I suspect the 777X has the advantage based on what I know of hot/high performance in this competition. I suspect due to that need for hot/high the 778 might garner more orders than otherwise.

Worth repeating:

Quoting chiad (Reply 23):
but the turnover grew from 2011 to 2012 with a crazy 36.5% and ET became the largest African carrier this year.
http://www.ethiopianairlines.com/en/...d=530

Despite the 'handicapes' of a high altitude hub, Ethiopian has grown tremendously. I didn't realize they were #1 in Africa though...

Quoting na (Reply 1):
70 of such big planes, for an African Airline? Hard to think that that could work out.

There is a hole in the global network. As Africa grows, someone will be the major hub and it is likely to be where the business growth is. Who else is ready now with a *well* run airline? But as noted, many options and some narrowbodies. So this is likely 20+20. With Ethiopian's growth, that is quite reasonable.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
So if you dig up the original article on www.air-journal.fr, you'll see it's a copy of the Reuters article. It says - together with the WSJ article - the order will be for 70 jets, including 30 narrow-bodies (20 firm + 10 options).

Thank you for giving better numbers to discuss.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 16):
ET is a very profitable business in an extremely successful niche. Being one of only 2 or 3 serious airlines on an entire continent is a major selling point, note several things:

That is important. There is a hole for an African hub and too many of the potential competitors just aren't ready to compete.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 21):
The government is planning to build a new airport at lower elevation (~1600-1700m) which should help ET but certainly all other carriers in the ME, Asia don't have that problem.

Do you have a link? This is the first I've heard of this.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 24):
this growth is still happening for a very limited share of the population in the big centers like Addis, which produce a lion's share of the overall GDP there.

Since the population centers are what Ethiopian serves, that will benefit them.

Lightsaber

Amexair · Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:55 pm

Quoting whisperjet (Reply 26):
Are there any plans to expand the terminal in ADD?
I was there in June and July and it seemed to be very crowded during the peak hours. If all those planes are going to operate from there (as Ethiopian Airlines) the capacity won't be sufficient.

Yes, construction has already commenced on the $250m ADD expansion project. This new terminal is expected to accommodate about 25 million passengers per year from the current 6.5.

And somewhere down the line...(maybe in the next 10 years or so)

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 21):
The government is planning to build a new airport at lower elevation (~1600-1700m).

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 17):
I'm not an expert but whenever you want to borrow money to buy things like durable goods your credit rating has to be in good shape, not your GDP ranking.

Nicely put! ET, even though 100% government owned, is run like a private entity. This is another factor which has helped it flourish in the past several years. Not to mention, the impressive growth that is happening in not only Ethiopia but the whole of Africa in general. Their numbers tell a very promising story( having exceeded their own yearly expectations) and it will be foolish of them not to prepare for the surge in business that's coming their way.

Faro · Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:10 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 24):
As I pointed out above, this growth is still happening for a very limited share of the population in the big centers like Addis, which produce a lion's share of the overall GDP there.

Exactly. Ethiopia's population is +90 million, so even a small share of that mass who live in affluence is a lot of business.

As for the rest of the population, A.net doesn't seem to give a hoot (apart from Viscount724). Somewhat like air travel in the developed world before the 747: it's the preserve of the monied few, and those are the people that matter. The rest who are the vast majority are unpersons in aviation terms...rather sad really...but that's business...

Faro

ETinCaribe · Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 28):
Do you have a link? This is the first I've heard of this.

Here is one link: http://www.thereporterethiopia.com/i...-million-in-bole-airport-expansion

Though the article is about the expansion of ADD, there is this bit:

Quote:
Tewodros said the enterprise will soon put up a tender to hire a consultant that would supervise the construction work. The consultant will also undertake a study on the new airport planned to be built out of Addis Ababa.
Three locations have been identified for the construction of the new international airport (mega-hub). These locations are found near Mojo, Teji, and Dukem towns. The Ethiopian airport Enterprise is undertaking a study on the site location.

For ADD expansion, ADPI (Aéroports de Paris Ingénierie) of France has won the consultancy bid to supervise the expansion project which is being undertaken by CCCC of China. See: http://www.busiweek.com/index1.php?Ctp=2&pI=1548&pLv=3&srI=58&spI=24

There was lots of debate as to whether to invest more in ADD or build the new airport, looks like the former has won the day, which probably means the new airport is a decade away, not good news for ET.

Quoting Faro (Reply 30):
As for the rest of the population, A.net doesn't seem to give a hoot (apart from Viscount724). Somewhat like air travel in the developed world before the 747: it's the preserve of the monied few, and those are the people that matter. The rest who are the vast majority are unpersons in aviation terms...rather sad really...but that's business...

Granted, equitable (first test, define "equitable") distribution of wealth is a universally unsolved problem. To their defense, the current Ethiopian government is genuinely "pro-poor", with policies that are supposed to have maximum impact in lifting the masses out of poverty. I believe that may be one of the reasons why they decided to invest on ADD for a smaller $250M instead of shelling out multiples of that on a new airport; funds are needed for other infra projects like power, rail, roads, and of course education, health, etc.

As a business, all carriers care more about their addressable markets. As the saying goes, the tide lifts all boats, we should see more demand for air travel as the overall economy grows

lightsaber · Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 31):
The consultant will also undertake a study on the new airport planned to be built out of Addis Ababa.
Three locations have been identified for the construction of the new international airport (mega-hub). These locations are found near Mojo, Teji, and Dukem towns. The Ethiopian airport Enterprise is undertaking a study on the site location.

Thank you. This sounds like a long term plan rather than a near term launch of construction.

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 31):
As a business, all carriers care more about their addressable markets. As the saying goes, the tide lifts all boats, we should see more demand for air travel as the overall economy grows

Ground transportation will be just as important as air transport. Education pays off the most in the long run...

Lightsaber

seabosdca · Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:58 pm

This order may turn on the hot and high performance of the A350-1000. Adding A350-1000 frames would make a lot of sense when they will already be operating A350-900... provided the A350-1000 can lift enough out of ADD to fly anywhere in Asia. ADD is not hot, but it is very high.

If the A350-1000 can't fly the missions, then the 777-8 would make sense from a performance standpoint... but it would put ET at a competitive disadvantage with the ME3 and their 777-9s.

That lower airport really can't come soon enough.

rotating14 · Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 33):
This order may turn on the hot and high performance of the A350-1000. Adding A350-1000 frames would make a lot of sense when they will already be operating A350-900...

The 787 rating that the 777x shares will play a role in the upcoming order too.

Planeflyer · Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:52 pm

Africa does not lack for entrepreneurial spirit but what it does lack is strong private property rights. Fortunately countries like Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda and Ethiopia are starting to address this deficiency. If they keep on this path they could be a great example to rest of Africa and the third world. This would be fantastic for Africa and by extension ET.

DexSwart · Mon Aug 25, 2014 11:34 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 35):
rest of Africa

Indeed.

However...

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 35):
the third world

None of the countries you've mentioned are in the "third world".

They're classed as developing (second world, if you will), but we've gone past categorising entire areas as a certain class/wealth system, no?

Not having a go at you, just clearing up some terms.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 33):
Adding A350-1000 frames would make a lot of sense when they will already be operating A350-900

Possibly, but they'll also have the 787 and 777 base to work from, and those are already flying with ET.

kanban · Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:57 am

I am confused in the narrow body thread it says
"ET To Order CSeries, 737 MAX Or A320neo Next Week

KarelXWB Posted Thu Aug 14 2014 07:34:31

Ethiopian Airlines will make a decision by the end of next week on modernizing and expanding its short-haul fleet. The deal will include 20 firm orders with options to take 10 more. ET evaluated the CSeries, the 737-Max and the A320neo.

The airline will later commit to adding 20 more long-haul planes."

Yet here it seems all will be wide bodys.. is the truth somewhere in between?

Planeflyer · Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:31 am

Quoting DexSwart

None of the countries you've mentioned are in the "third world".

They're classed as developing (second world, if you will), but we've gone past categorising entire areas as a certain class/wealth system, no?

yep, good catch. I just hope I am not wrong about the rest.

I am fairly new the site and am amazed/impressed at the amount of posters that take flights just to experience a new route, plane or airline. For any of you aviation fanatics you won’t be disappointed with ET.

dank · Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:48 am

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 36):
Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 35):
the third world

None of the countries you've mentioned are in the "third world".

They're classed as developing (second world, if you will), but we've gone past categorising entire areas as a certain class/wealth system, no?

Not putting judgement on Ethiopian's finances, nor on how developed an economy Ethiopia has, the second world was the Eastern Block. Essentially the first/second/third world terms were put out of fashion based on the connotations that they gave. The term "developing nations" essentially replaced third world.

DexSwart · Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:13 am

Quoting dank (Reply 39):
The term "developing nations" essentially replaced third world.

Incorrect. During the Cold War, the three worlds arose. This was just to identify which countries aligned with who. Also, the "Third World countries back then were unaligned. Second world were those that aligned with the communists.

The term nowadays is used to defined underdeveloped nations.

Ethiopia has quite a lot of development at the moment, along with a rising standard of living. I.e. developing.

Also, calling South Africa "third world" seems a little backwards, it's still developing, but it's is definitely NOT third world in either sense of the word.

KarelXWB · Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:33 am

Quoting kanban (Reply 37):
Yet here it seems all will be wide bodys.. is the truth somewhere in between?

The information in this thread is based on an misinformed blog article. The Reuters link in the first post says the order is for 70 jets, including narrow-bodies.

oldeuropean · Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:39 am

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 40):
Also, calling South Africa "third world" seems a little backwards, it's still developing, but it's is definitely NOT third world in either sense of the word.

Well, but if you're watching the videos of Die Antwoord.

I'm kidding.

aryonoco · Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:45 am

Quoting DexSwart (Reply 36):
None of the countries you've mentioned are in the "third world".

They're classed as developing (second world, if you will),

"Second world" has nothing to do with "developing", and in fact if we go by the original definition of the terms, pretty much all of Africa is "third world".

These terms date back to the cold war, when the "first world" were the countries that were allies of the US, the "second world" were the countries that were allies of the USSR, and the rest were called the "third world", or as they later came to be known, the Non-Aligned Movement. And in fact the Non-Aligned Movement still exists to this day, and if you look at its member list, you'll see that pretty much every African state is a member of it.

Of course during the years, the term "third world" came to be associated with countries with lower GDP per capita, and after the cold war, as those terms lost their original meaning, terms such as "developing" have come to replace them.

No disrespect, I was born and grew up in a "third world" country myself

karadion · Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:24 pm

This just recently made the news a couple days ago but Ethiopian reported a 43 Billion Birr profit (2.3 billion USD / 1.76 Billion Euro).
http://www.zegabi.com/articles/9038

Quote:
Ethiopian Airlines announces record 46 billion Birr profit
Ethiopian Radio and Television Agency (Addis Ababa) – The Ethiopian Airlines announced that it has earned over 46.5 billion Birr revenue during the last budget year, between July 2013 and June 2014.

With that, it should put them in a good position to safely order wide bodies from either OEM's.

Aquila3 · Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting aryonoco (Reply 43):
These terms date back to the cold war, when the "first world" were the countries that were allies of the US, the "second world" were the countries that were allies of the USSR, and the rest were called the "third world", or as they later came to be known, the Non-Aligned Movement. And in fact the Non-Aligned Movement still exists to this day, and if you look at its member list, you'll see that pretty much every African state is a member of it.

Interesting definition. I was living for a significant part of my life in Switzerland, even during the Cold war, but I never ever heard about us being considered "third world". I must have missed it.

seabosdca · Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 45):
Interesting definition. I was living for a significant part of my life in Switzerland, even during the Cold war, but I never ever heard about us being considered "third world". I must have missed it.

I also lived for some time in Switzerland, and while it has been fastidious about formally protecting its neutrality and non-aligned status, in fact there was no question that it was "first world" in the original sense as well as the current one. Switzerland is a part of the West in every way that matters.

Motorhussy · Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:26 pm

So still no word on either the wide or narrow-body orders? Sounds like the media were misinformed.

Question; given the altitude of ADD, would the much heavier 77X family be at a disadvantage over the A35J? Presumably the impact of the extra weight increases in significance as altitude increases - directly on performance. Conversely the lighter weight A35J's performance will be less significantly inhibited by altitude. Or am I misinformed?

ETinCaribe · Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 47):
So still no word on either the wide or narrow-body orders? Sounds like the media were misinformed.

Still waiting... Next week is probably not literally next week, could be next month

I am not holding my breathe.

Quoting Karadion (Reply 44):

This just recently made the news a couple days ago but Ethiopian reported a 43 Billion Birr profit (2.3 billion USD / 1.76 Billion Euro).
http://www.zegabi.com/articles/9038

Also, Washington state senator Maria Cantwell visited ET at the end of August, mere coincidence? I think NOT.
See: https://www.facebook.com/Ethiopianairlines Aug28 entry.

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 47):
Question; given the altitude of ADD, would the much heavier 77X family be at a disadvantage over the A35J? Presumably the impact of the extra weight increases in significance as altitude increases - directly on performance. Conversely the lighter weight A35J's performance will be less significantly inhibited by altitude. Or am I misinformed?

I am no expert in this area but I think you are right. However, ET may need the capacity that the 777X offers so may still opt to go down that route.

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