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Miami
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Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:54 am

Air New Zealand will start 2x daily 787-9 service to SYD starting August 30th.

Schedule:
NZ101 AKL0700 – 0830SYD 789
NZ105 AKL1600 – 1730SYD 789

NZ102 SYD0945 – 1445AKL 789
NZ108 SYD1845 – 2345AKL 789

http://airlineroute.net/2014/08/26/nz-syd-30aug14/

I think it's a good route to use the 787-9 for a couple months. But I seriously hope they will use the 789 for it's range for an expansion. Maybe to open more cities in North America; for example.

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byronicle6
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:01 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
I think it's a good route to use the 787-9 for a couple months. But I seriously hope they will use the 789 for it's range for an expansion. Maybe to open more cities in North America; for example.

787-9 on AKL-PER starts in September, with AKL-NRT & AKL-PVG by the end of the year.
Theres been talk of 787-9 eventually on AKL-YVR to bring the route to daily, but its not the right aircraft for North America in the current high density layout.
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:01 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
I think it's a good route to use the 787-9 for a couple months. But I seriously hope they will use the 789 for it's range for an expansion. Maybe to open more cities in North America; for example.

I think AKL-SYD is a short-time utilisation of the 789 for reliability proving and training purposes. SYD is only 3 hours from AKL with multiple daily frequencies meaning the network and pax are not too disrupted in one of the new planes goes tech.

Once established, the 789s will move onto routes into Asia and to PER. I don't believe additional USA ports are under consideration for the 789 at this time but it is an obvious possibility in the future.
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Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:11 am

To clarify, the schedule change announced is two flights AKL-SYD on August the 30th and not from August the 30th (a subtle difference). The 31st will also have two flights each way. September 1st has the aircraft back to just doing once daily NZ103/NZ104.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:30 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):
I think it's a good route to use the 787-9 for a couple months. But I seriously hope they will use the 789 for it's range for an expansion. Maybe to open more cities in North America; for example.

Its not out of the normal for the short tasman flights to have long term use of long-haul aircarft, SYD/BNE/MEL all see an daily 77W from AKL
 
jupiter2
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:42 am

As has been pointed out higher up, it is for one day only, the 30th of August.
SYD does not see daily 77W from NZ, we may get 1 or 2 a week and a few 772's. The 789 is unfortunately, only a short term thing for SYD.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:45 am

Excellent to see the 789 being used more for short haul ops especially during training and not just sitting around with one daily service.

The current 789 config is more suited to low yielding destinations like Asia/tourist spots. NZ is considering putting the 789 on YVR services but this would most likely come with a more standard North America configuration, so expect to see premium seat numbers like what the 777 fleet have.

The MEL/SYD/BNE routes see daily widebody service to enable the long haul customers to/from USA/LHR/YVR to have same service standards in regards to configuration on Australian East coast routes, instead of being 'downgraded' as it basically is to the current Australian East coast offering of A320s/Virgin Australia B738 services.
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:25 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 4):
SYD/BNE/MEL all see an daily 77W from AKL

No. Only MEL gets it daily. The 772 goes to BNE on 135/6 at least once a week. SYD rarely gets a 77W, especially over winter. In winter, the 77W heads to NAN.
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RWA380
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:24 am

Quoting Miami (Thread starter):

Air New Zealand will start 2x daily 787-9 service to SYD starting August 30t

I'm happy for all of you in the correct hemisphere to enjoy these flights. I know some lucky souls will get to enjoy that new plane smell for a few trans Tasman crossings.

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 1):
but its not the right aircraft for North America in the current high density layout.

Could YVR be that exception? I know LAX & SFO both have the need for good premium offerings, but wouldn't YVR be a bit more VFR and lower yielding tourist traffic? I assume the 789 has the same coach pitch as the 777s?

Quoting zkncj (Reply 4):
SYD/BNE/MEL all see an daily 77W from AKL

I am assuming you mean on NZ? Please let me know if I am incorrect. I say this because I had always thought that EK offers A-380s on these routes don't they?
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:22 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 8):

Could YVR be that exception? I know LAX & SFO both have the need for good premium offerings, but wouldn't YVR be a bit more VFR and lower yielding tourist traffic? I assume the 789 has the same coach pitch as the 777s?

It's been said (mostly in the New Zealand aviation thread) that, in the higher-density layout of the current NZ 789, there would be payload restrictions for (particularly) the YVR-AKL leg, and to a lesser degree the AKL-YVR one. A more premium heavy cabin would lessen the overall weight and make the aircraft more suitable for some routes like YVR, a second daily flight to SFO, and possibly a future flight to GRU.
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 9):
It's been said (mostly in the New Zealand aviation thread) that, in the higher-density layout of the current NZ 789, there would be payload restrictions for (particularly) the YVR-AKL leg, and to a lesser degree the AKL-YVR one. A more premium heavy cabin would lessen the overall weight and make the aircraft more suitable for some routes like YVR, a second daily flight to SFO, and possibly a future flight to GRU.

O dear, a casual off the cuff remark on YVR-AKL loads has been picked up as gospel by NZ'ers on A net. Lets put it straight, the 789 can carry better than 40t westbound on a >= 14 hr. day. That is 302- passengers plus 6 to 7t of freight. This thing has legs!
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 9):
A more premium heavy cabin would lessen the overall weight and make the aircraft more suitable for some routes like YVR, a second daily flight to SFO, and possibly a future flight to GRU.

I believe the smart move would be to do as HA/DL/UA do , include a section in Y with ~36/38 " seat pitch and charge ~$300 extra for these seats. By removing one row of seats it should be possible to provide at least 5 rows of seats at an improved pitch . The present spread between Y and Y+ is in polite language, obscene. In my view a 293-seat 789 set up this way would be the best of both worlds.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 10):

O dear, a casual off the cuff remark on YVR-AKL loads has been picked up as gospel by NZ'ers on A net.

I do believe the comment was originally attributed to an Air NZ senior staffer (strategy and networks chief Stephen Jones perhaps?), so if such can be taken with more than a grain of salt.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 11):
I believe the smart move would be to do as HA/DL/UA do , include a section in Y with ~36/38 " seat pitch and charge ~$300 extra for these seats.

While that may be a compelling offer for these other airlines, NZ clearly believes their Skycouch and Premium Economy offering is an adequate if not compelling differentiator for their passengers.
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laca773
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:51 pm

Is it possible we'll see NZ re-instate a routes like FRA down the road via LAX again with a 789 since it would have less capacity in premium configuration compared to the 77E/77W?

Will all the 787-9s NZ has on order have this particular configuration, or do they have the flexibility to mix it up if they wanted to utilize it on a route that has higher premium demand?
 
zkncj
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:00 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Will all the 787-9s NZ has on order have this particular configuration, or do they have the flexibility to mix it up if they wanted to utilize it on a route that has higher premium demand?

They are lookinng at adding an further 8 orders to take the fleet to 18x 789 which the second batch would be configured for new routes. While the first 10 are to take on the current low yeilding routes
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:03 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 13):
Is it possible we'll see NZ re-instate a routes like FRA down the road via LAX again with a 789 since it would have less capacity in premium configuration compared to the 77E/77W?

This would take a change of strategy from that being pursued at this time. Never is a long time and changes to address market conditions as they unfold are always possible.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 14):
They are lookinng at adding an further 8 orders to take the fleet to 18x 789 which the second batch would be configured for new routes. While the first 10 are to take on the current low yeilding routes

That would be to replace the 77Es.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 7):

No. Only MEL gets it daily. The 772 goes to BNE on 135/6 at least once a week. SYD rarely gets a 77W, especially over winter. In winter, the 77W heads to NAN.

Yep. Looking ahead to a random January date MEL has a daily 77W, BNE 6pw 77W, SYD 5pw 77W 2pw 789, daily 77E, 2 daily 763 daily A320.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:02 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 6):
The current 789 config is more suited to low yielding destinations like Asia/tourist spots. NZ is considering putting the 789 on YVR services but this would most likely come with a more standard North America configuration, so expect to see premium seat numbers like what the 777 fleet have.

except that AKL-YVR is mostly leisure traffic with little need for business class. The 789 is currently paper derated meaning it would struggle. Simply update the paper rating and it is back to having a very good payload over long distances. As Sunrisevalley pointed out it has legs!
The main advantage is being able to go daily (more options for passengers, smaller crew costs for the airline).
I think we will see YVR daily 789, SFO double daily 77E, LAX double daily 77W plus extra 77W on some days and 789 via the islands. Of course if NZ picks up DEN or IAH then expect the SFO reduce to just daily and LAX double daily only plus the 789 flight. All of this in 2 years time.
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Notty
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:56 pm

pleasant surprise to see my 763 on Sunday has been changed to NZ102 and I got upgraded to premium economy!!
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:16 pm

Most airlines do not have their own training pilots ready at entry into service for the new airplane. To get a training pilot ready, he will need to do a certain number of landings. Some airlines fly short haul sectors, others do touch and go flights, while others do training elsewhere. Air New Zealand can use instructor pilots from Boeing, but they are expensive. It is a waste to do training on flights more than a few hours. A few short hops for the pilots and then the airline should be good to go since they will have enough instructor pilots.

For reasons like this we have seen airlines around the world operating some strange routes in the first month.
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zkncj
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting Notty (Reply 18):

pleasant surprise to see my 763 on Sunday has been changed to NZ102 and I got upgraded to premium economy!!

They don't sell Premium Economy on the Tasman, they seat Elite/Gold/Koru passengers in there with the Y service they purchased.
 
aotearoa
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:14 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):

Where do you get the idea that the ANZ 789 is 'paper de rated'? The ANZ 789s are able to use every last kg up to the Boeing certified MTOW. There is absolutely no paper derate in play here. Believe me, stop thinking this a/c does not have anything less than a spectacular range/payload.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:30 pm

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 21):
Where do you get the idea that the ANZ 789 is 'paper de rated'?

ZK-NZE is registered with a MTOW of 244,955 kg which is a bit below the maximum of 252,651 kg.
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Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
ZK-NZE is registered with a MTOW of 244,955 kg which is a bit below the maximum of 252,651 kg.

That is something the CAA seems to do on their website and I have no idea why. It's the same with the 77Ws. Both types show as being registered at below there MTOW but as Aotearoa says above, they definitely are.
 
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 23):
but as Aotearoa says above, they definitely are.

Forgive me for asking, but how do you know? Is it documented somewhere?
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Mr AirNZ
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 24):
Forgive me for asking, but how do you know? Is it documented somewhere?

It's probably not documented publicly anywhere but internally, definitely.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:43 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 24):
Forgive me for asking, but how do you know? Is it documented somewhere?

In the FCOM and AFM.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:11 pm

These a/c aren't going to be flying around derated and with plugs etc. They were bought for a specific purpose given AUK's remote location, full payloads over vast distances.
 
Notty
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:58 am

Flew the 787 today, was a great trip across the tasman!

Quoting zkncj (Reply 20):
They don't sell Premium Economy on the Tasman, they seat Elite/Gold/Koru passengers in there with the Y service they purchased.

That is why it surprised me today, I am part of airpoints but have no status, made for a much more pleasant trip that in economy
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting Notty (Reply 28):
That is why it surprised me today, I am part of airpoints but have no status, made for a much more pleasant trip that in economy

How did you find the seat cushion? Lazy Boy style , not hitting the stops like the BA one.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:14 am

I flew SYD-AKL last night on a Works Deluxe ticket, so I was seated in the Premium Economy section.

Great flight, if I hadn't been so tired, I think I would have been quite happy for the flight to last an extra hour or so, LOL.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:14 am

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 21):



Where do you get the idea that the ANZ 789 is 'paper de rated'? The ANZ 789s are able to use every last kg up to the Boeing certified MTOW. There is absolutely no paper derate in play here. Believe me, stop thinking this a/c does not have anything less than a spectacular range/payload.


Because that is how it has been registered. Be deliberately to save money or a mistake. It is a very simple quick fix to do to bring this a/c up to max. Once it has that then yes it has the legs.
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aotearoa
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:42 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 31):

Sorry to sound like a stuck record (people with knowledge post genuine information here for you all to interpret).

How clear can I, or other contributers to this thread be more clear than we already have...the ANZ 789s are not MTOW restricted. MTOW is 252650kgs. Period. As per the AFM and FCOM.

Every damn last kgof the MTOW will be used on long haul operations on some flights. Forget registration, this is a mere technicality that I suspect has been overlooked with several MTOW changes over the last 18 months.

What matters is the AFM.....and that has no restriction. Boeing go to massive efforts to deliver what the customer needs, and ANZ need an efficient Longhaul a/c. That's what the 789 will ultimately be.
 
opticalilyushin
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:01 am

What are the chances the 787-9 will still be flying some of the SYD services in November? I'd be quite keen to get a flight on one
 
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RWA380
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:10 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 17):
The main advantage is being able to go daily (more options for passengers, smaller crew costs for the airline).
I think we will see YVR daily 789, SFO double daily 77E, LAX double daily 77W plus extra 77W on some days and 789 via the islands. Of course if NZ picks up DEN or IAH then expect the SFO reduce to just daily and LAX double daily only plus the 789 flight. All of this in 2 years time

NZ has had it's hard work pay off, NZ seems to be thriving, with new A/C orders and a streamline route map. Is the partnership with UA hurting or helping NZ? ????Either way, this just shows, that a well run Pacific carrier can thrive.
Congrats to NZ & the hard working people who make this carrier one of the best in the world.

Quoting Notty (Reply 28):
Flew the 787 today, was a great trip across the tasman

  
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KarelXWB
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:54 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 10):
O dear, a casual off the cuff remark on YVR-AKL loads has been picked up as gospel by NZ'ers on A net.

Not an a.net gospel, it was mentioned by NZ themselves.
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zkncj
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:02 pm

Quoting opticalilyushin (Reply 33):

What are the chances the 787-9 will still be flying some of the SYD services in November? I'd be quite keen to get a flight on one

By November they should have 3x 789 in service, so chance are they will still be running some training flights on AKL-SYD-AKL
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting Aotearoa (Reply 32):
What matters is the AFM.....and that has no restriction. Boeing go to massive efforts to deliver what the customer needs, and ANZ need an efficient Longhaul a/c. That's what the 789 will ultimately be.

and right now at this moment NZ doesn't "need" it as the aircraft are flying trans Tasman etc. PER and NRT don't "need" it either although it would be of benefit perhaps for freight. So in the meantime NZ is saving $$$ on landing fees and once they get 3 aircraft will be having all registered at MTOW.
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eaglefarm4
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RE: Air New Zealand Plans 2x Daily 787-9 To SYD

Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 36):

Last month their CEO stated that BNE would also get some flights in October as well.
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