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Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:21 am

When traveling internationally I have noticed that on large a/c (747, 777, A340/330) two jetways are typically used in boarding. Does this actually board a plane faster or is it just a nice perk for the F and C pax (sometimes only F) to say here is a jetway just for you that the Y pax will not use. When you think about it if a plane has 300 people on it but only 50 use one jetway and are boarded before the Y pax it would reason that the second jetway does not increase efficiency in boarding, barring the KLM jetways in AMS that connect to door 3. Does anyone know if there are stats on this?

In this I am not asking about the A380 as with a jetway to the second deck it makes sense that it would as the pax do not have to climb stairs.
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Part147
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:41 am

As yourself the corollary question, can a whole planeful of passengers get out faster when two exits are used rather than one?
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washingtonflyer
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:58 am

It absolutely goes faster.
 
SKC
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:01 pm

If even one person uses a secondary jetway, it speeds up the process.
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:09 pm

I think the benefits are more pronounced on disembarkation/deboarding rather than boarding. Typically, in the double-airbridge set-up, passengers using the left aisle will use Door 2L and those on the right use 1L for disembarking.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:42 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 4):
I think the benefits are more pronounced on disembarkation/deboarding rather than boarding. Typically, in the double-airbridge set-up, passengers using the left aisle will use Door 2L and those on the right use 1L for disembarking.

It absolutely speeds up the disembarkation process. With 2 aisles, there is a crunch point at the door when there is only one jetbridge. A second bridge will speed up the process of getting people off.

In my opinion for an international flight, a second door barely speeds up the boarding process. The aisles in economy are jammed through most of the boarding so that there is a line up the jetbridge. A second jetbridge will not really speed up the process much since it is only used by business class and they speed through anyway. The only benefit is that economy can start boarding immediately since business class has its own door which saves a couple minutes at the start of boarding.

The A380 is a whole different beast.
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delta88
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:48 pm

probably speeds up Deplaning more than Boarding, but if you have an entrance in the back and say the pax from seats 50-25 board from the back(just to make a point, im not sure how seat rows are exactly arranged), and pax from seats 1-24 board from the front, yeah that may save time if the one slow guy has to walk all the way to the back of the plane, the possible, but the logistics of such an operation( a gate designed to go around the wing so it wont hit it), but even two doors up front still make some difference
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Dallas
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:13 pm

My earlier response of "Yes" apparently didn't contribute enough to the topic and was deleted, even though the answer to this topic is quite obvious and apparent.

To elaborate on my response:
-2 jetways will allow for faster deplaning and turn times, especially to help make up times during delays and bad weather
-2 jetways will allow for a plane to fill by sections faster, as long as airlines adjust their boarding groups appropriately
-2 jetways will allow airlines (WN) that do not have assigned seating to board faster, as customers will have an incentive to quickly board in the back rows so they can deplane faster upon arrival
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting Dallas (Reply 7):
2 jetways will allow airlines (WN) that do not have assigned seating to board faster, as customers will have an incentive to quickly board in the back rows so they can deplane faster upon arrival

Most dual jetways are used by widebody flights only so will most likely have assigned seating. WN to my knowledge does not use dual jetways (but am open to correction).
 
BryanG
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:22 pm

There are lots of theoretical boarding/deplaning studies and models published on the Internet. Here's one from Boeing that includes a brief discussion of one-door vs. two-door deplaning on the 757-300.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...azine/aero_01/textonly/t01txt.html

On that airframe, they found that using both doors did not significantly reduce the deplane time. However, the boarding time was more greatly reduced. For a double-aisle cabin I assume that the time savings would be much more significant for both boarding and deplaning.

Another interesting part of the Boeing article is a table showing that the average "passenger flow rate"--the rate at which passengers actually move through the door of the aircraft--has gone down significantly in the last few decades.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 8):
WN to my knowledge does not use dual jetways (but am open to correction).

They used to at ALB on the C Concourse, but I'm not sure if they're still in use.
 
Dallas
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:27 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 8):

Most dual jetways are used by widebody flights only so will most likely have assigned seating. WN to my knowledge does not use dual jetways (but am open to correction).

I have never seen WN use dual jetways, especially since they only use 737's and are much smaller planes (as you pointed out). My response was more theoretical, and I do not have any concrete data to backup my points. I do think though dual jetways would work well for WN and any other carrier that does not assign seats for deplaning, enplaning, and their overall turn times. However, the cost needed to accomplish this would be too great and not be worth it IMO.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:33 pm

It will also depend on the entire boarding process and where the flow experiences the greatest pinch point and thus where the bottle-neck appears.

For instance, if you have one slow person scanning boarding passes and two aircraft doors in use, the pinch point is going to be at the gate so the affect of having the doors is muted. I've seen this many times, even with a single door in use, where all passengers can just walk straight onto the plane with no queue at the door because another part of the process is having the greatest effect on flow.


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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:34 pm

I would think that for emplaning, one jetway at door 2 would be just about as fast as two jetways, but one jetway only at door 1 is slower. The line in the jetway is not the limiting factor. Especially with wide doors on widebodies.
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:49 pm

Quoting BryanG (Reply 9):
Another interesting part of the Boeing article is a table showing that the average "passenger flow rate"--the rate at which passengers actually move through the door of the aircraft--has gone down significantly in the last few decades.

The last 10 years of baggage fees has probably thrown flow rate equations upside down.

Quoting Dallas (Reply 11):
I do think though dual jetways would work well for WN and any other carrier that does not assign seats for deplaning, enplaning, and their overall turn times.

The choke points in the cabin where folks are loading carry on items will remain, however, with multiple entry points one will now have multiple choke points which still means a faster boarding time.

Anyway you slice it boarding / deplaning by multiple jetways will be faster.
 
b757aus
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:58 pm

WN did use dual jetways at both DAL and AUS. Boarding and deplaning did go faster, but they have since stopped using them.
 
AT
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:04 pm

Wow the outside in method really seems to save far more time than whether door 1 or 2 are used.
Are there any airlines that routinely use this mechanism for boarding?
 
b757aus
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:06 pm

Here is a picture of a WN plane with an over the wing jetway:

http://www.fmt.se/en/airport/pbb_otw/
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 8):
WN to my knowledge does not use dual jetways (but am open to correction).

For some period of time, WN experimented with using a second jetbridge that went over the wing and connected at the back of the plane. Gate 9 at AUS was one of the test locations.

I haven't seen it around anywhere after that test, so I'm guessing they determined it wasn't cost effective.

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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:45 pm

There is a reason why some LCC don't like jetways. Using stairs allows for 2 doors to be used and that is a whole lot faster than only 1 jetway.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 19):
There is a reason why some LCC don't like jetways. Using stairs allows for 2 doors to be used and that is a whole lot faster than only 1 jetway.

I would think that with stairs, it would create additional risk for injury. It would also mean there would need to be extra supervision on the ramp to herd passengers into the terminal. Plus with two sets of stairs, you would experience delays and problems with wheelchair passengers.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:21 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 16):

Wow the outside in method really seems to save far more time than whether door 1 or 2 are used.
Are there any airlines that routinely use this mechanism for boarding?

It maybe faster but you have to have people following the rules and not board out of order or crowd around the jetway door. There is nothing more frustrating than to have your boarding group called just to have to wade though the duncils who are waiting in front of the door with all their luggage that will be gate checked, you guessed it at the door.
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:22 pm

Quoting Dallas (Reply 7):
-2 jetways will allow airlines (WN) that do not have assigned seating to board faster, as customers will have an incentive to quickly board in the back rows so they can deplane faster upon arrival

Yes, but for that application there is this troublesome nuisance called a "wing" that makes it structurally difficult to position a jetway at the aft door. I did suggest to WN that they remove these nuisance "wings" from their aircraft but they responded that there were some niggling contractual issues with removing the wings for the flight.  
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AT
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:23 pm

Quoting Dallas (Reply 20):
Plus with two sets of stairs, you would experience delays and problems with wheelchair passengers.

how about jetway + rear stairs? JetBlue used to do that at Ft Lauderdale a lot (though not sure if that's true any longer).
Made for very efficient boarding.

Short of that the outside-in system described above seems very efficient as well-- the only caveat is that for people traveling together, they would have to board at different times.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:33 pm

On a few narrow bodies I've flown on which don't use jetways and use both front and rear doors, there is a huge improvement in load/unload times.
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Dallas
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Yes, but for that application there is this troublesome nuisance called a "wing" that makes it structurally difficult to position a jetway at the aft door. I did suggest to WN that they remove these nuisance "wings" from their aircraft but they responded that there were some niggling contractual issues with removing the wings for the flight.  

Haha, yes, that dang wing does tend to get in the way. I am not advocating for WN to get dual jetways, but was merely answering the question in the thread, provided cost isn't an issue. If you were to have two jetways, enplaning, deplaning, and turn times would all be quicker, but I'm betting the logistics and added cost would not make it an overall smart decision.

Quoting AT (Reply 23):
how about jetway + rear stairs? JetBlue used to do that at Ft Lauderdale a lot (though not sure if that's true any longer).
Made for very efficient boarding.

I was thinking about a hybrid scenario like that, but then there would still be the added cost of having one ramp agent get the jetway in place, while having the need for another ramp agent to get the stairs in place for the rear door. Plus you'd then still need a ramp agent or security of some sort to herd passengers into the terminals. The hybrid scenario would still be a lot faster than a single jetway, but I think it would be the worst from a cost perspective.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 23):
JetBlue used to do that at Ft Lauderdale a lot (though not sure if that's true any longer).
Made for very efficient boarding.

I'm not so sure about FLL anymore (given its size, and the amount of construction in the general area), but the practice is still employed just to the north at PBI (and sometimes, TPA). Yes, it does make for a more efficient way to board a completely full flight, and keep turnaround times low.
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:22 pm

It should make a little difference on widebodies because of the flexibility of 2 aisles, but on the 753 or even 752, A-321 probably not so much unless they did the rear door boarding. Using the 2 up front on these would not do much as far as speeding things up.

[Edited 2014-08-26 16:25:15]
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Quoting Dallas (Reply 7):
-2 jetways will allow airlines (WN) that do not have assigned seating to board faster, as customers will have an incentive to quickly board in the back rows so they can deplane faster upon arrival

Yes, but for that application there is this troublesome nuisance called a "wing" that makes it structurally difficult to position a jetway at the aft door. I did suggest to WN that they remove these nuisance "wings" from their aircraft but they responded that there were some niggling contractual issues with removing the wings for the flight.

It worked for UA at SFO in this 1962 photo featuring 5 DC-8s. The aircraft could also taxi to and from their parking positions without any need for towing or pushbacks.




Otheir airports (ORD and LAX come to mind) also used dual jetways for some time with the aircraft parked parallel to the terminal, however that took up too much terminal space as traffic increased. TWA Convair 880 at LAX below.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a340/Madness86/TWACV880ATGATEPIX.jpg
 
washingtonflyer
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:35 am

I've had two recent experiences of boarding on multiple doors.

On my QF108 flight which was an A380 out of LAX to SYD, they used three doors - two downstairs and on upstairs. We commenced boarding about 10 minutes late but everyone was boarded (nearly a full flight) in less than 30 minutes.

On my JQ flight from AKL to CHC which was on a A320 (180 passengers), they boarded from both the 1L door via the jet bridge and via airstairs to the 2L door. We were boarded in less than 20 minutes. Full bags too!

On my QF15 flight which was a 744 from BNE to LAX, boarding was through a single door - 1L or 2L - and took close to 40 minutes to complete.
 
Skisandy
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:37 am

Maybe this will help the thread starter:
Imagine your family of four of five ( we are only a short way to the crowds boarding an airplane).
1. Cars with 4 doors are faster to board than cars with 2 doors.
2. If you have a car with one door only, that would be a real pain....
Or a subway... they board incredibly fast because they have so many doors...
I haven't heard anyone question that system yet... like: "Maybe a subway car with one door
only could be filled with commuters just as fast?"
 
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cosyr
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:34 am

It does for 1st/Business Classes and that's what counts. What I don't understand is how often you have 2 jetways and the airline only uses one of them. Drive's me crazy!
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting Dallas (Reply 20):
I would think that with stairs, it would create additional risk for injury. It would also mean there would need to be extra supervision on the ramp to herd passengers into the terminal. Plus with two sets of stairs, you would experience delays and problems with wheelchair passengers.

Almost every LCC outside of North America uses stairs at many, if not all, stations. That should tell you a lot about its practicality. The resistance to the use of air stairs in North America is more cultural than anything else.

Quoting washingtonflyer (Reply 29):
On my JQ flight from AKL to CHC which was on a A320 (180 passengers), they boarded from both the 1L door via the jet bridge and via airstairs to the 2L door. We were boarded in less than 20 minutes

That's actually quite slow for Jetstar! They should be sub-15. Qantas mainline board their 737s in 20 minutes (or under) using one jet-bridge.
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airbazar
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:48 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 32):

Almost every LCC outside of North America uses stairs at many, if not all, stations. That should tell you a lot about its practicality. The resistance to the use of air stairs in North America is more cultural than anything else.

And it's not just LCC's. Legacy carriers in Europe use stairs regularly. I personally love it because I'm and airline enthusiast and it affords a different view and usually a bus ride through the tarmac. The fact that it's so much faster than jetways only makes it better   
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 18):
For some period of time, WN experimented with using a second jetbridge that went over the wing and connected at the back of the plane. Gate 9 at AUS was one of the test locations.

I haven't seen it around anywhere after that test, so I'm guessing they determined it wasn't cost effective.

WN did test dual boarding at 1 gate in AUS and DAL as well at 2 gates in ALB (the ALB gates still use dual boarding). What WN found out that while the passengers did get on/off faster it took them just as long to turn the aircraft with two bridges as with one. The reason was the loading/unloading of the bags. So WN would need to use double the number of rampers to see any savings in the turn time of the aircraft when using two jet bridges. That was the part that wasn't cost effective.
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:10 am

Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster? The answer (and the answer common sense gives) is: Yes!

Even 1 jetway + rear stairs loads and unloads the plane much faster...

I like how JQ uses front and rear stairs at many places, or a jetway at the front and stairs at the rear. It seems that by loading at the very front door and at the very back door they can get half of the plane through each door (coordinated by aisles) and the boarding process is done much, much faster...
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davidho1985
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:07 am

Why not board economy passanger first using both jetways,
then invite those in F & J to board the plane once most of the Y has boarded
(at that time one of the jetway can be reserved for F & J passangers while all the remaining Y passangers are required to use another one).

I don't think many F & J passangers will be complained (not allowed to board the plane first) as all of them can be waited
in the lounge and can minize their waiting time onboard for the pushback.
 
USAirALB
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:20 am

ALB still uses the dual jetways, and they were recently reconfigured to allow 738s to use the system.

ALB is the only station left in the WN network to use the dual jetways, solely because ALB owns the jetways. At AUS and DAL, WN owned the equipment and made the decision to remove the second jetway.

[Edited 2014-08-26 21:26:45]
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:47 am

We, at DL, used to use two jetways (H-11A/B) on the 747 when we had them in the 70s.
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yakima
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:09 am

I believe it is faster. I fly Kulula (MN) on the JNB-GRJ-JNB route quite often (B738) and they can have some pretty quick turnaround times in GRJ which I haven't experienced before when everyone was boarding from the front only.


Sorry I have to add, they are not using jetways, but stairs back and front.

[Edited 2014-08-27 01:12:10]
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:23 am

Quoting b757aus (Reply 17):
Here is a picture of a WN plane with an over the wing jetway:

http://www.fmt.se/en/airport/pbb_otw/

Awesome. Imagine if there were a widebody version servicing doors 4L on a 744, 3L on a 772, 4L on a 773, and 4L on a A388.  
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davidho1985
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:47 am

Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 40):
Awesome. Imagine if there were a widebody version servicing doors 4L on a 744, 3L on a 772, 4L on a 773, and 4L on a A388.

AMS have it (at lease) for 772 and 744
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:26 am

Boarding B6 at LGB is definitively faster loading at the front and rear of the aircraft. But that is airstairs, not jetways...  

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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:17 am

Quoting davidho1985 (Reply 41):

Why do more airports not have these for widebodies? I can imagine the "front and back" jetways to be far more effective than "two near the front"
 
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:41 am

It's quite right that F and C passengers on widebodies have their own entrance, that's one of the things they've paid for. It also avoids having Y passengers walking through F and C sections to get to their seats.

And while the F and C passengers can wait in the lounge, they might prefer relax on the plane with their pre take off champagne!
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vv701
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:17 am

Quoting brilondon (Reply 21):
It maybe faster but you have to have people following the rules and not board out of order or crowd around the jetway door.

It has been suggested that boarding randomly rather than by seat block is faster. This was substantiated in a test that showed random boarding was 30 per cent faster than block boarding. I suspect this is because passengers may seat themselves in the forward part of the cabin and are not held up by passengers stowing luggage further back:

http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jan-feb/82

However another test showed that boarding by row - window, middle then aisle - could save 40 per cent of the boarding time:

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-14717695
 
S75752
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RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting cosyr (Reply 31):
It does for 1st/Business Classes and that's what counts.

Does it though?
Airlines always board first and business class first anyways, so it's not like they're having to detour out of the economy passengers.

Didn't UA have a brief experimentation with an overwing jetway at DEN or somewhere like that, but it was canned because it damaged a 752?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18199
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:34 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 42):
Boarding B6 at LGB is definitively faster loading at the front and rear of the aircraft. But that is airstairs, not jetways...  

That's probably a perfect example of how, while it may speed up the process, the additional plane time you end up with translates into some pretty marginal flying. It's like when UA invested a ton of money to put double jet bridges at DEN to speed up boarding. A) it meant you got an extra crappy roundtrip to PHX, and B) it sunk the whole project when the rear bridge fell onto a 320 causing enormous damage 
I don't take responsibility at all
 
YYCSpotter
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:03 pm

RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:01 pm

As far as overwing jetbridges are concerned, KLM seems to be having great success with them at AMS, although I am not sure if someone who works for the company can say otherwise. See here: Amsterdam's Unique Jetbridges (by United1P Aug 11 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
LH707330
Posts: 2353
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 pm

RE: Do Two Jetways Really Load A Plane Faster

Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:59 pm

Quoting BryanG (Reply 9):
Another interesting part of the Boeing article is a table showing that the average "passenger flow rate"--the rate at which passengers actually move through the door of the aircraft--has gone down significantly in the last few decades.

I think it's due to the baggage rules. Law of unintended consequences....

Quoting Vasu (Reply 43):
Why do more airports not have these for widebodies? I can imagine the "front and back" jetways to be far more effective than "two near the front"

It's probably a cost thing, those overwing jetbridges probably cost more than the 2 up front.

Theoretically, the 1L/2L system would probably work best if you send A-D through 2L and E-J (assuming 8 across) through 1L, that way you avoid the door bottleneck. Then, you treat each subgroup as a 4-across single aisle, and implement the Steffen Method for each subgroup. Last, you try it in practice and something goes pear-shaped 

An interesting article on the topic: http://www.vox.com/2014/4/25/5647696...irplanes-makes-absolutely-no-sense

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