Thanks to MAH4546 for the heads up on this.
DL has applied to operate weekly seasonal MSY-CUN service using 738 aircraft with a proposed start date of 2/14/15.
The flight will be a DL/AM codeshare.
Here's a link to the docket...
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=DOT-OST-1997-3289-0153
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
Interesting.
According to Wiki, DL operates to many more destinations than I realized from CUN.
Atlanta, Detroit, Los Angeles, Minneapolis/St Paul
Seasonal: Boston, Cincinnati, Columbus (OH), Hartford/Springfield, Indianapolis, Memphis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Orlando, Raleigh/Durham, Salt Lake City, Tampa, Washington-Dulles
Are all these still accurate such as CMH and MEM?
Do you think we'll see DL try MSY-CDG next?
According to Wiki, DL operates to many more destinations than I realized from CUN.
Atlanta, Detroit, Los Angeles, Minneapolis/St Paul
Seasonal: Boston, Cincinnati, Columbus (OH), Hartford/Springfield, Indianapolis, Memphis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Orlando, Raleigh/Durham, Salt Lake City, Tampa, Washington-Dulles
Are all these still accurate such as CMH and MEM?
Do you think we'll see DL try MSY-CDG next?
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- slcdeltarumd11
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1): Do you think we'll see DL try MSY-CDG next? |
No almost no chance of that happening. I think MSY is a tough sell to Europe, i just don't see any significant premium demand and the numbers of passengers are just too low in general. There have been many other posts on this subject and not so impressive numbers posted.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
DL is no stranger to flying to CUN. CO/UA is even kind of doing it as well from (I think) AUS SAT and RDU.
Hooooooold up there buddy. We are only talking about one single weekly seasonal service to a near by resort city.
But if you want to talk about MSY-Europe, MAYBE, just maybe, VIrgin Atlantic may give it a shot from LGW. But that's a different thread.
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1): Do you think we'll see DL try MSY-CDG next? |
Hooooooold up there buddy. We are only talking about one single weekly seasonal service to a near by resort city.
But if you want to talk about MSY-Europe, MAYBE, just maybe, VIrgin Atlantic may give it a shot from LGW. But that's a different thread.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter): DL has applied to operate weekly seasonal MSY-CUN service using 738 aircraft with a proposed start date of 2/14/15 |
Interesting!
I'm surprised it's a 738... Why not a CRJ with higher frequency?
Many are saying that CRJ's can handle over water, but if so, why aren't they using them for such? MSY-CUN is just about 650 miles so it should be do-able range wise...
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
It is easy scheduling wise to do these seasonal flights out of out stations. You can either use an aircraft that RON or have a flight that originates from say ATL do ATL to CUN an then CUN to MSY then return MSY to CUN and finally CUN to ATL.
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- yellowtail
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
Is CUN exempt from the 2-airline US-MX bilaterals? I thought Swift was flying there already?
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- MSYtristar
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 8): I thought Swift was flying there already? |
The Swift Air flights are only scheduled charters operated on behalf of the Vacation Express tour company.
| Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1): Do you think we'll see DL try MSY-CDG next? |
Nah. DL was actively looking at DFW-MSY-CDG route in 2001, but that was before the industry changed forever. You''ll see MSY-London in a year or so hopefully, but not by Delta.
| Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5): Man, I remember flying MSYCUN on DC-9-31 equipment with EA back in the day. Great flight! |
My folks took that flight for a vacation in '84. It was a daily service back then.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 9): Nah. DL was actively looking at DFW-MSY-CDG route in 2001, but that was before the industry changed forever. You''ll see MSY-London in a year or so hopefully, but not by Delta. |
I'd think that a MSY-CDG/AMS would be a DL style route, given that they have partners in CDG and DL seems to be the one willing to experiment with long haul routes that aren't out of their hubs. A 763 seems perfect, a 788 seems excessive.
In fact, if they wanted to get especially interesting, a non daily CDG/AMS-MSY-GIG.
I suppose a BA 763 LHR is also reasonable.
| Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 7): Because to make a low yield beach market work from an outstation you need a low CASM aircraft. For DL that is the 738 not a CR9 |
Why does the 738 have a lower CASM than the CR9? More efficient aircraft? Seems like a lot more potentially empty seats...
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- yellowtail
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 10): Why does the 738 have a lower CASM than the CR9? |
Good question to ask the manufacturers. But presumably it the 738s engine only use a little bit more fuel that the CRJ. Both require two on the flight deck, same support infrastructure etc. so better off to fly the extra seats and hope you fill them to spread those costs over more people.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 10): Why does the 738 have a lower CASM than the CR9? More efficient aircraft? Seems like a lot more potentially empty seats... |
For CASM it doesn't matter if the seats are empty, CASM is CASM.
| Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11): Good question to ask the manufacturers. But presumably it the 738s engine only use a little bit more fuel that the CRJ. Both require two on the flight deck, same support infrastructure etc. so better off to fly the extra seats and hope you fill them to spread those costs over more people. |
Well you start with WAY more seats. The gap is closer if you look at just airframe costs, but once you include staffing the CRJ closes the gap a little by having fewer cabin crew/seat, and (much) lower paid crew both in the cabin and cockpit. So without even thinking about fuel you can kind of get the drift there.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
The operations in New Orleans are by far essentially oriented to the domestic traffic for the time being.
On the other hand, Cancun experiences a large connectivity from many US stations. Some of them have limited flights to Latin America. That being said, the proposed MSY-CUN service fits within this argument.
Regards.
On the other hand, Cancun experiences a large connectivity from many US stations. Some of them have limited flights to Latin America. That being said, the proposed MSY-CUN service fits within this argument.
Regards.
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- 2travel2know2
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 7): Because to make a low yield beach market work from an outstation you need a low CASM aircraft. For DL that is the 738 not a CR9 |
Same would be true if DL was to study MSY-SAP.
The O/D market is there and unlike MSY-CUN there is a non-leisure component in that.
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- Thenoflyzone
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 9): You''ll see MSY-London in a year or so hopefully, but not by Delta. |
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 10): I suppose a BA 763 LHR is also reasonable. |
I can't see BA at MSY. Too low yield to make it work.
If anything, MT or ZB on seasonal charters would make more sense, and even they dont seem too interested.
Not to mention that MSY has a metro population of only 1.2 million (just to compare, AUS is 1.8 million) There are plenty of bigger cities (2 million + metro area, plus more disposable income) in the States that warrant BA service ahead of MSY.
BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2) (by DeltaRules Aug 28 2014 in Civil Aviation)
And even the lucky city or two from that list wont gain service until 2016, most likely.
Thenoflyzone
[Edited 2014-08-29 08:47:34]
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15): If anything, MT or ZB on seasonal charters would make more sense |
Monarch is stopping all their long-haul services, so you can cut them out.
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- yellowtail
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14): The O/D market is there and unlike MSY-CUN there is a non-leisure component in that. |
The non leisure components there on MSY-SAP but unlike CUN there is next to zero tourist demand. If you compare the two there is more tourist MSY-CUN demand than VFR MSY-SAP demand.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
I know that Taca/TAN/Sahsa have a history in New Orleans. Is there still any demand for direct MSY-Honduras/Central America service, or is the market served well enough via IAH? Will there be any connections available via CUN? Curious.
Tomas SJC
Tomas SJC
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 18): |
On that note, I'd absolutely love to see MSY-SJO done with a CR7. At 1450~ miles it's within range, and by word of mouth alone Costa Rica could get massive leisure traffic.
| Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 11): |
| Quoting RDH3E (Reply 12): |
This is amazingly confusing... I'm still not understanding how a 738 with empty seats has a lower trip cost than a CR9 with all seats filled. Is the 738 that much more efficient?
...If so, what's the point of the CR9?
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15): I can't see BA at MSY |
New Orleans experiences low international connectivity and any intercontinental route like LON-MSY sounds like extremely ambitious for the time being.
On the other hand, BA serves the LHR-AUS segment.
.
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 18): I know that Taca/TAN/Sahsa have a history in New Orleans. Is there still any demand for direct MSY-Honduras/Central America service, or is the market served well enough via IAH? |
New Orleans was in the past a gateway to Latin America and Sahsa contributed into the [MSY-Honduras] market for years.
The remaining of that market could be funneled through UA [MSY-IAH-Honduras] on a daily basis.
Regards.
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- Thenoflyzone
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 19): This is amazingly confusing... I'm still not understanding how a 738 with empty seats has a lower trip cost than a CR9 with all seats filled. Is the 738 that much more efficient? ...If so, what's the point of the CR9? |
LOL....Of course DL will not operate an empty 738.
CASM = Cost per "available" seat mile. It's purely a mathematical calculation. CASM is expressed in cents to operate each seat mile offered.
A lower CASM means that it is easier for the airline to make a profit, as they have to charge less to break even. Now obvioulsy DL thinks it can fill a 738 out of MSY, or else they wouldn't have announced the route with that equipment.
Let's assume DL announced the route with a CRJ (because they knew they cant fill a 738), then it would be harder for them to make money with a CRJ since they would have to charge more per seat to break even, because the 738s CASM is lower.
Hope this helps.
Thenoflyzone
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- yellowtail
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 19): Is the 738 that much more efficient? |
| Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 20): New Orleans experiences low international connectivity and any intercontinental route like LON-MSY sounds like extremely ambitious for the time being |
Don't forget BA has served this route in the past with L1011 and that MSY does have oil / shipping corporate traffic
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- MSYtristar
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 15): I can't see BA at MSY. Too low yield to make it work. |
That's the common perception, yet it's not true on the whole. Many routes from MSY see very strong yields. A nonstop would capture a price premium, as well. MSY has been on an absolute roll as of late in luring new airlines and nonstop routes. And remember, it's not just the New Orleans metro area that supplies the passenger demand...people drive in from BTR, LFT, GPT, JAN, and MOB on a daily basis to use the airport. It's a pretty significant catchment area. If airlines weren't bullish on the market, all of this new service would just be a pipe dream.
The airport, city, and state have been courting BA for a while now. Almost every magazine/article talking about tourism to New Orleans over the past few months has mentioned that BA to London is a top priority, and that it's in the works. Like I posted on a different thread, just because you don't see an airport rep (like the one in CMH) come out and talk about it doesn't mean it's not going to happen. From everything I have seen and read, BA back to MSY is a question of when, not if.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 22): BA has served this route in the past with L1011 |
That was yesterday.
The situation at MSY has dramatically changed during the last 40 years, in terms of its international connectivity.
I found YYZ as its sole regular international destination from MSY for the time being. Did I miss something ?
Regards.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
This has got to be the first international service on DL from MSY since they went MSY-MBJ (not counting the PanAm interchange flights).
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 23): BA back to MSY is a question of when, not if. |
I've been reading here for years a similar statement concerning to the possible resumption of MSY-SAP on TACA/AVIANCA.
Nothing happened.
Regards.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 18): or is the market served well enough via IAH? |
Tons, and I mean metric TONS, of people fly from all over Central America to MSY. A regular ton fly on UA and then DL and AA to an extent. I am actually surprised UA hasn't taken a stab at MSY to Central America. Maybe WN can get in on that acyion.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 28): Tons, and I mean metric TONS, of people fly from all over Central America to MSY. A regular ton fly on UA and then DL and AA to an extent. I am actually surprised UA hasn't taken a stab at MSY to Central America. Maybe WN can get in on that acyion. |
CM CM CM (They can E-190 that!)
Seriously though, aside from PTY Central America is within Regional Jet range. Any info on which nation in particular has the most O&D to/from MSY?
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 30): Going off from what I've seen at IAH, no hard numbers though, I'd guess El Salvador and then Honduras. |
Hmm, CM would still be my first bet since they seem to be the most comprehensive service overall (with service to South America too), but I suppose an AV E-190 could be possible as well? SAL seems like it might be a bit more restricted to Central America than PTY.
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- 2travel2know2
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RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
The major Central American O/D market for MSY is Honduras specifically SAP; be DL, UA, WN, NK, B6, AV whoever launches the route.
AV MSY-SAL might work well for other Central American connections like GUA TGU MGA SJO.
When it comes to Central America CM MSY-PTY could only do well for SJO and perhaps (but very iffy) MGA due to the detour.
And talking about SAP, seems there's now also a O/D market for a MEM-SAP.
AV MSY-SAL might work well for other Central American connections like GUA TGU MGA SJO.
When it comes to Central America CM MSY-PTY could only do well for SJO and perhaps (but very iffy) MGA due to the detour.
And talking about SAP, seems there's now also a O/D market for a MEM-SAP.
RE: DL Applies For MSY-CUN
| Quoting S75752 (Reply 31): CM would still be my first bet since they seem to be the most comprehensive service overall (with service to South America too) |
Other cities in the United States have been the priority of CM during the last years:
July 2014: Ft. Lauderdale
December 2013: Tampa
July 2013: Boston
June 2012: Las Vegas
Regards.
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