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vinniewinnie
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:50 am

Here is my thinking and I may be wrong: isn't it the case that BA will seek revenue protection for any new "lesser" city it will serve?

Thus MSA size, business traffic and market potential will not have the same significance as It would usually have!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:17 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
That's more gearing towards Asia. Maybe JL or NH would want to jump into the ring for these.

This is an issue for a number of cities on this list. If all of the foreign economic ties in a place like Nashville were to Europe, then Nashville would be almost a slam dunk for TATL service. But much of Nashville's foreign trade comes from Japan. That split makes service across either ocean a much murkier prospect (and it's going to be a long time before NRT-BNA happens, if ever).

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
Plus, Toyota and Honda are also big players in the Cincinnati market...

Honda not so much (they are further North), and much of the Toyota operation in Erlanger is moving either to Saline Township or to Plano in 2015.

Quoting slowroll (Reply 41):
I just know there are a lot of euros on the slopes (however, I will say I hear a lot more german spoken over brit english).

I don't disagree at all. You're taking my comment that it's not significant to mean that no Europeans come to the States to ski. What I said--and what I stand by--is that ski traffic isn't a significant driver of TATL demand. If it were, we'd see more service in the winter than in the summer just like we see on various ski-heavy dependent routes.

Much of what Utah has to offer for non-skiing tourists is natural and is better seen in the summer (or at least not in the winter). I suspect the tourist demand to Utah is fairly non-seasonal, or perhaps even summer peaking.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 45):
Western skiing is totally different than skiing in Europe. to say that skiing is better in europe shows you have no idea what your talking about, its different. I greatly prefer the skiing out west. I would take Deer Valley or Vail anyday over Chamonix.

Better skiing was an inartful word choice because you are right that it's a different experience. What is better in Europe (for a European) is the much shorter travel time.

Quoting PITrules (Reply 46):
MSY, PDX?

I wasn't thinking of these as cities on the original list. MSY has a fair amount of foreign tourism for sure.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:10 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 13):

I have a hard time believing that IND would generate more trans Atlantic traffic than STL. STL has over 300 PDEW to Europe and is actually the same market size as Austin with similar fares. Austin is growing where as STL isn't. So Austin got it. STL is the next obvious market IMO.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:17 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 52):

I have a hard time believing that IND would generate more trans Atlantic traffic than STL. STL has over 300 PDEW to Europe and is actually the same market size as Austin with similar fares. Austin is growing where as STL isn't. So Austin got it. STL is the next obvious market IMO.

I said O&D to LHR and I am correct on that front.

STL is the largest transatlantic market of the ones being discussed.
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VCEflyboy
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:34 pm

A couple of months ago I read an awkwardly-written article on anna.aero titled "British Airways To Launch New Orleans In Summer 2015" which was later re-titled "New Orleans top of British Airways US to-do list", yet the article is just speculations based on research and figures. Is there any update to substantiate it?

http://www.anna.aero/2014/06/25/new-...leans-top-british-airways-us-list/
 
hohd
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:05 pm

Best chance would be STL, decent one world presence, some connections, a large city, and also not many would drive from STL to ORD to save money for flights on ME3 or other carriers. 4 times a week on 787 would be ideal. The tough time will be in mid winter, how will the loads be. Even if BA is not interested, may be AA can fly this on a 757.
 
1400mph
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:16 pm

The U.K is obsessed with Dolly Parton and Elvis (rightly so)

That said I'm not surprised Nashville has popped up.

I'm not saying this is the only reason but BA wont have any trouble flogging the cheap seats.


( I'm seeing some pretty fun advertising if this comes to fruition )
 
greenair727
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:25 pm

Quote:


STL is the largest transatlantic market of the ones being discussed.
CLE may be larger - I know a lot of people in CLE that buy unlinked tickets say to NY to go east or just drive to Detroit. Those people are not captured in the CLE-Europe numbers. Though people in STL may buy unlinked tickets, the number of people driving to another city is far less, given the proximity of an airport like DTW to STL.

Furthermore, airlines look at future revenue, not only current. CLE, I hear, is booming--billions in investment being spent there---something like 7 new hotels underway in Downtown CLE right now and new (and growing number of) international conventions (and more if the city hosts a successful Republican political convention in 2016). The Cleveland Clinic alone serves people from over 100 countries a year and the Clinic itself is growing.

And it looks like people can't even get an apartment in Downtown Cleveland as the demand is so high (The Wall Street Journal just published this article yesterday: Top
 
vv701
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:30 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
I guess BA have had a very positive start with Austin so they're looking for other secondary markets in the US where they might be able to have a monopoly on nonstop service across the pond.

In the (long) run-up to delivery of the 787 and during and following BA's purchase of BD and their LHR slots, BA seemed to be strongly focussed on using their new fuel efficient aircraft and their expanded LHR slot holding on their relative weakness, East Asia. But I believe that the LHR-CTU flight, their only new flight to East Asia in recent times, has had disappointing loads.

To illustrate this compare the total number of passengers travelling between LHR and CTU in June, 4,391, with those travelling between LHR and AUS, the only recently added western hemisphere new route, namely 11,671. Note that both are scheduled to be served by a daily 214-seat 787.

The load factor on the AUS route looks to be over 90 per cent. So it is possible that BA is now refocusing on its strengths on routes to North America and particularly the USA rather than trying to address its weakness in East Asia.

Source for the passenger numbers above is the UK Airport Statistics 2014 tables on the CAA web site. However direct comparison may be unfair as the BA Source web site is showing 30 flights to AUS in June but only 18 to CTU.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 57):
CLE may be larger

It isn't. Even going back a few years when both CLE and STL had transatlantic service, STL was the larger market. Even when CLE had transatlantic service and STL didn't, STL was still the larger market.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
1400mph
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:38 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 58):
The load factor on the AUS route looks to be over 90 per cent. So it is possible that BA is now refocusing on its strengths on routes to North America and particularly the USA rather than trying to address its weakness in East Asia.

Is it really fair to compare AUS and CTU ?

I mean Austin is the state capital of the state in which we find AA's DFW. BA's partner.

It's gonna take a lot more butter to get the Chinese to jump into BA's frying pan in Chengdu than Austin.
 
greenair727
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:44 pm

Quote:
It isn't. Even going back a few years when both CLE and STL had transatlantic service, STL was the larger market. Even when CLE had transatlantic service and STL didn't, STL was still the larger market.

The main point of my post was that, the future is key to any airline investment, and CLE has been taking off in the past few years and economists (US-wide) expect it's upward economic projectory to continue. Thus the larger future seats/yields/revenue are in CLE-LHR compared to STL-LHR.
 
1400mph
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:47 pm

What's going on in PIT ?

Isn't PIT where BA first sent the 744 ?
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:03 pm

Short of a mega draw like MCO or MIA, I don't think leisure tourism is going to be that big of a factor in this analysis of these markets. It's a nice way to fill some seats, particularly seasonally, and it might be a tiebreaker, but I'd largely discount the transient leisure visitor part of this equation.   
 
1400mph
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 63):

Like LAS.....
 
flyforever
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:14 pm

Well there is a good possibility that I'll move to Ohio next year and I've been checink flights for a long time now and actually Ohio is not very well connected to the rest of the world, in particular Dayton-Columbus area. An international connection would be very welcomed I guess!!
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):

Cleveland-Akron 2.77 mil
Cleveland-Akron/Canton 3.51 mil (which is roughly the size of the St Louis metro)

Keeping it honest
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:23 pm

Would these new flights be part of the BA/AA JV? Would revenue be split equally between the two?
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 59):

STL was always a larger hub than CLE. Larger hubs stimulate larger local market demand. Or am I off base in thinking this?

Not to mention CLE and CAK split the market unlike STL.
 
Flaps
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:35 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 62):
What's going on in PIT ?

Isn't PIT where BA first sent the 744 ?

That is correct.

I believe the only reason that PIT is not prominent in this discussion is because it already has service to CDG. PIT absolutely could support a BA 787 if it did not already have DL to CDG. The ability to support both BA to LHR and DL to CDG is questionable. One or the other definitely but probably not both. There is a huge AA frequent flyer base in PIT. DL has made inroads on that FF base but it is still substantial. If PIT were to be linked to LHR under the current circumstances it would be more likely on an AA 757 than on a BA 787. A 787 to LHR and a 757 to CDG are too many seats to fill. A 757 to each destination would be more feasible but still a real stretch.
 
papatango
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:42 pm

What if Delta started CMH-AMS?
 
1400mph
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:43 pm

Quoting Flaps (Reply 69):

I see. Thanks.
 
vv701
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:54 pm

Quoting 1400mph (Reply 60):
Is it really fair to compare AUS and CTU ?


What do you think?

This is what I originally said.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 58):
However direct comparison may be unfair


Nevertheless if AUS is coining loads of passengers and money and if CTU is operating half empty and loosing buckets, in which direction would you favour to look in first when choosing your next long-haul destination, west or east?

At least while the current UK visa requirements for Chinese visitors persist and until I had managed to build up traffic between LHR and CTU, I would be very cautious before I chose to inaugurate another new East Asia service.
 
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par13del
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:07 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
Cleveland would be great, but if CO couldn't make it happen even with feed at Hopkins, would an airline with no feed on the US end (BA) be able to make it happen?

Years ago CO had no access to LHR, when they did get access they paid a ton.
BA has extra slots from their recent purchases and always had access to LHR so not reeally a fair comparison.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 58):
So it is possible that BA is now refocusing on its strengths on routes to North America and particularly the USA rather than trying to address its weakness in East Asia.

With increased slots at at LHR and the 787, BA can open a number of routes into the USA - we can call them marginal - that their counterparts cannot compete with as their slots at LHR are to precious to serve what on the USA side could be considered secondary markets.
 
Fiesta13
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:21 pm

CLE is still the largest U.S. market with no service to LHR, and with CLE in a boom right now, I think it's at least even money that BA adds CLE to its stable, at least seasonally. I read on here where someone said they shold use a l757, but there has always been a ton of cargo between CLE and London. Maybe they could make a 787 work, so that cargo from CLE isn't grounded to NYC first, then flown to LHR.

I think CMH and STL could both handle LHR at least seasonally,but I just can't see IND having the traffic for a flight to LHR. I don't think a 757 quite has the legs for that route, and perhaps a 787, at least daily is too large.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:27 pm

Quoting papatango (Reply 70):
What if Delta started CMH-AMS?

I feel like there was talk of CMH being a possibility for TATL service when NW added BDL-AMS and again when DL started adding service like PIT/RDU-CDG, but don't remember any details or if there was any basis to it.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:47 pm

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 68):

STL was always a larger hub than CLE. Larger hubs stimulate larger local market demand. Or am I off base in thinking this?

CLE lost it transatlantic service later than STL. Even when STL was reduced to shreads and CLE had transatlantic service, STL was bigger. Its not that your arguement wouldnt hold water if that were not the case.

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 61):
The main point of my post was that, the future is key to any airline investment, and CLE has been taking off in the past few years and economists (US-wide) expect it's upward economic projectory to continue. Thus the larger future seats/yields/revenue are in CLE-LHR compared to STL-LHR.

Youre giving Cleveland a lot of benefits of doubts that could really be argued in any area.

Lets face it, Cleveland has been hit hard by the recession and job losses. The Cleveland area still doesnt have positive population growth. Cleveland also gets very few international immigrants (especially given its size and as does STL for that matter).

So Im not ready to buy into the notion that Cleveland is a city of the future. Once they stop the population bleeding, Ill listen. Niether the Cleveland nor Canton metro areas are gaining population.

http://diversitydata.sph.harvard.edu/Data/Profiles/Show.aspx?loc=328

http://diversitydata.sph.harvard.edu/Data/Profiles/Show.aspx?loc=260
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sq452
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:49 pm

If CMH is in the discussion, there's a part of me that thinks BA should look at service to and from DAY purely based on the geography. If you look at where the airport is located, it is less than an hour from Columbus and its western suburbs. The northern Cincinnati suburbs and I-75 catchment area plus metro Dayton have a reasonably good population and some parts of northern Cincinnati are actually closer to DAY than CVG. I'm sure if you added up the population of everyone living under an hours drive from DAY it is greater than metro-Columbus (or close to it).

I know it might sound a bit crazy but there is some logic to the suggestion. The only problems I think that BA would face at DAY would be lack of FIS facilities, lounge for premium passengers and catering services. The airport would almost certainly have to give a facelift to the gate areas too as they looked quite tired the last time I was there in 2012.

Probably a fantasy but a 787 at DAY would be a sight to see.
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
Indy
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:01 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 6):
Indianapolis + Terre Haute + Columbus (Indiana) + Lafayette: 2.41 million

I wonder what it is if you include Bloomington, Kokomo and Muncie?

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 52):
I have a hard time believing that IND would generate more trans Atlantic traffic than STL. STL has over 300 PDEW to Europe and is actually the same market size as Austin with similar fares.

In 2010 the number of overseas travelers coming to Indianapolis was 79,000 a year. I am making the assumption that people go home so you would have 79,000 leaving Indianapolis to return overseas. Then there was U.S. citizens residing in Indianapolis going overseas. Those numbers were 86,000 a year. So combined 165,000 people a year go from Indianapolis to overseas destinations. So that comes to 452 people per day. I just don't know where they were going. But considering the shape of the economy that is pretty good. Those numbers come from the Commerce Department.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
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OA412
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:27 pm

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 75):
Quoting papatango (Reply 70):
What if Delta started CMH-AMS?

I feel like there was talk of CMH being a possibility for TATL service when NW added BDL-AMS and again when DL started adding service like PIT/RDU-CDG, but don't remember any details or if there was any basis to it.

I vaguely remember that as well. It's certainly a possibility if DL/KL start looking at smaller cities to AMS, and can be flown by a 757. In fact, CMH-AMS is slightly shorter than CVG-AMS, which DL flew on a 757.

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 76):
Lets face it, Cleveland has been hit hard by the recession and job losses. The Cleveland area still doesnt have positive population growth. Cleveland also gets very few international immigrants (especially given its size and as does STL for that matter).

So Im not ready to buy into the notion that Cleveland is a city of the future. Once they stop the population bleeding, Ill listen. Niether the Cleveland nor Canton metro areas are gaining population.

I tend to agree with you. No doubt Cleveland is a large city, but it's just not growing (nor is Ohio) the way cites in the West/Southwest/South are growing. Anecdotal I know, but here in CO, it seems like every 2nd or 3rd person you meet is an ex-Ohioan.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
PHX787
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:37 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 51):
Honda not so much (they are further North), and much of the Toyota operation in Erlanger is moving either to Saline Township or to Plano in 2015.

About halfway between Indy and Cincinnati is a brand new Honda plant. My cousin spent some time there before moving to Marysville. He flies to japan about 4-5 times a year for training purposes.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:06 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 79):
I tend to agree with you. No doubt Cleveland is a large city, but it's just not growing (nor is Ohio) the way cites in the West/Southwest/South are growing. Anecdotal I know, but here in CO, it seems like every 2nd or 3rd person you meet is an ex-Ohioan.

The city that is emerging as the most international in Ohio is Columbus. By far, Columbus recieves the most international immigrants of any metro area in Ohio and neither CVG, CMH, nor CLE are that far apart in international O&D.
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N766UA
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:40 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 76):
Cleveland also gets very few international immigrants

What's that got to do with demand for service to Europe? I'm an American, I was born here... I'd love to fly directly overseas.
 
joeman
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:42 pm

Nice part of the CMH strategy to rally support and demand by publically courting BA and getting people talking, like here and elsewhere.
 
Planeflyer
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:58 pm

I think the amount of shale gas and oil will change the fortunes of many cities in the US interior. You are seeing it in Texas, ND, Ohio and Pa already so Cleveland and Columbus as well as Pittsburg will grow over the next few years.San Antonio and Midland/Odessa are now in a full on boom due to the Eagle Ford and Permian fields but I guess they can be served with connections form Houston and Dallas but who knows in a few years they may warrant overseas service.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:17 pm

I'm surprised that BDL never got AA 757 to LHR or DL 757 to AMS.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 85):
I'm surprised that BDL never got AA 757 to LHR or DL 757 to AMS

Actually NW flew BDL-AMS circa 2007. It lasted about a year.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 54):
A couple of months ago I read an awkwardly-written article on anna.aero titled "British Airways To Launch New Orleans In Summer 2015" which was later re-titled "New Orleans top of British Airways US to-do list", yet the article is just speculations based on research and figures. Is there any update to substantiate it?

There is absolutely nothing to back that up. I don't think BA has even visited MSY? Its just someone wanting BA to go there, but not based on anything.

We could write an article right now on STL being the next city BA will add, the airport there really wants it. Or we could write that same article on BA adding SLC next, BA actually took the time to have a representative visit the airport and SLC chamber of commerce meetings so at least there would be something of actual significance in the article. I don't think BA will add SLC though as soon as BA showed up in SLC, Delta announced AMS pretty early for summer 2015. That would be an addition that Delta would not like to see.

I think CMH is smart though they did a quick pitch and im sure next step they want BA to visit CMH in person to see the facilities, try to get their name on the top of their lists. I wouldn't be shocked if we saw like another city set up a meeting in London ASAP to try to pitch their package also. It looks like its gonna be very competitive which city if any BA decides to try.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 86):
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 85):
I'm surprised that BDL never got AA 757 to LHR or DL 757 to AMS

Actually NW flew BDL-AMS circa 2007. It lasted about a year.

Actually they did two different tries of BDL-AMS. IIRC, they brought it back after discontinuing it for another try.

Nowhere in the discussion do I see anything that indicates that BA is looking at SJC-LHR. Is that correct? Is SJC on their list?
 
LambertMan
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:47 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 61):

The main point of my post was that, the future is key to any airline investment, and CLE has been taking off in the past few years and economists (US-wide) expect it's upward economic projectory to continue. Thus the larger future seats/yields/revenue are in CLE-LHR compared to STL-LHR.

Incorrect. Not to drop my title on you, but my profession is advising on economic policy and I have access to several demographic software packages. According to ESRI, five year annual growth rates for Cleveland is projected at .33%, while St. Louis is at .72%. By any measure, Cleveland (when including Akron) and St. Louis are very similar markets with very similar issues they must face moving ahead. Let's avoid going down that road.

At the end of the day, my guess is BA adds two to three new markets in the United States. I've long opined that MSP makes sense due to premium demand, along with St. Louis or New Orleans. Let's keep in mind this is all speculation from an airport director, not the airline itself. This is nothing we didn't already know, to be honest.
 
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OA412
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:53 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 87):
There is absolutely nothing to back that up. I don't think BA has even visited MSY? Its just someone wanting BA to go there, but not based on anything.

You don't think they've visited MSY or they indeed haven't visited MSY? Regardless, visiting MSY isn't some sort of prerequisite to BA announcing new service.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 87):
I don't think BA will add SLC though as soon as BA showed up in SLC, Delta announced AMS pretty early for summer 2015. That would be an addition that Delta would not like to see.

I continue to fail to see any connection. SLC was the last remaining hub not served from AMS, making it a logical choice for expansion. Further, the route is summer seasonal. I really don't think it has anything to do with BA attending a chamber of commerce meeting in SLC. Also, if BA is offered a sweet enough incentive from SLC to start the service, BA will start it whether DL likes it or not.

[Edited 2014-08-29 14:55:09]
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting Lambertman (Reply 89):

The problem with MSP is all the premium demand goes on Delta and any beyond demand is served via AMS. I just see STL as the best.
 
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:23 pm

Where is BA expecting to get all the slots for these flights? BA has already taken over BMI British Midland and Virgin is the only airline left to merge with who has any significant LHR slots. But its doubtful Virgin would sell itself to BA for a variety of reasons. Branson would probably liquidate his airline before he would ever sell it to BA.

IT is really in BA's interest to fly to Ceveland and St. Louis ? Austin is a special case, BA is getting a subsidy from the city as they do in Baltimore. There are prefectly good airports in London for cities who don't have Heathrow service for a flight to Lonson. Stansted and Gatwick are quite acceptable, most BA & Virgin flights to the Caribean and Orlando go from Gatwick.
 
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
That's more gearing towards Asia. Maybe JL or NH would want to jump into the ring for these.

Plus, Toyota and Honda are also big players in the Cincinnati market...

Toyota also runs a machinery plant in Columbus (think forklifts/pallet jacks), but I can see the point. Honda is also at the midpoint between Cincy and Indy, but you also want to look at the balance between what each city offers. CVG already has service to Europe through CDG, which is notorious for it's horrid connections. Given the choice between CDG and LHR, LHR seems the lesser of two evils.

I'm not holding my breath to see BA at IND, but it's nice to dream.
 
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:08 am

Just pointing it out, unless all of the 787s are based out of LHR, there was no indication as to whether or not these flights would be from LHR or LGW. Though I'm assuming LHR, LGW could also be the origin for these flights too.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:54 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 90):
You don't think they've visited MSY or they indeed haven't visited MSY? Regardless, visiting MSY isn't some sort of prerequisite to BA announcing new service.

I have not heard that they had. If they had i feel like the media in MSY would have mentioned it or someone on here would have posted it at a bare minimum. That would be pretty significant news for MSY and we have a few mega fans of the airport who would have posted it i would think? Hey look i could be wrong and i do hope New Orleans could get the service, i just don't think they are that close right now. Plus the article that was posted was looking for anything significant, they would have mentioned if BA had stopped by the airport or city offices.

I can't imagine BA wouldn't want to check out the facilities at an airport with no long haul international flights to see the facilities and setup before they announced service. I don't even know if there is a widebody scheduled there right now, i am sure they would want to see the gate space, facilities, customs, and lounge space options before signing on.

Look i really do hope all the airports can get service to Europe, i think it would be so cool to see new orleans or cleveland on the airport monitors at LHR i just think they are long shots, thats all. Good luck to all the cities.
 
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:05 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 92):
Where is BA expecting to get all the slots for these flights?


It already has them.

After the purchase of BD and its LHR slots it needed to use those slots or, under EU regulations, loose them. It launched a number of new ultra-short haul services including LHR-LBA (three times daily) and LHR-RTM (twice daily). In October 2013 they announced new services from LHR to be launched at the start of the current Summer Season to holiday destinations that previously they did not serve or served from LGW. They included AGP, FAO, JMK, JRT (Santorini) and OPO. They also continued to operate routes previously operated by BD.

It is not possible to for me to say which of the routes detailed above will prove to be slot-sitting routes that will either be transferred from LHR to LGW or be suspended. However when IAG bought BD and its 54 LHR slot pairs it was publicly stated that they planned to use around a dozen of those slot pairs for new long haul services from LHR. So far they have used two of these slot pairs for the CTU and AUS services. If, for example both the LBA and RTM services are slot-sitters then thaey would yield five further slot pairs when suspended.

Finally, particularly for BA, obtaining new LHR slots is not so difficult or as expensive as is often perceived. So over the last dozen Summer Seasons there has been but one occasion when BA has not operated more LHR slots than it did in the previous season.

Why "particularly for BA"?

Basically because it can use any slots that become available. LHR slots are timed in five minute periods. So, unlike in the USA, all flights to and from LHR are timed at the o'clock, five minutes past, ten minutes past and so on. With BA operating just over one half of all LHR slots it has both an arrival and departure slot in virtually every five minute period through the day. So with a complex shuffling of its timetable it can buy an unpopular late evening arrival slot that nobody else is interested in. It can then move a significant number of flights back by five or ten minutes. The result is a new arrival slot at a peak time.
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:14 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 76):

Cleveland has gained about 50k jobs since 2009 according to the BLS. The metro is not really losing population anymore according to recent Census estimates. It's still a market of 3.5 mil. It has no international service. Don't get cities of the future reference? Is Detroit a city of the future? Just keeping it honest again.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:38 am

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 97):
Cleveland has gained about 50k jobs since 2009 according to the BLS. The metro is not really losing population anymore according to recent Census estimates. It's still a market of 3.5 mil. It has no international service. Don't get cities of the future reference? Is Detroit a city of the future? Just keeping it honest again.

I just showed you links that it losing people and you don't have anything to back up your statements.

Just keeping it honest...
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
MSYtristar
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RE: BA Considering London-CMH/CLE/BNA/STL/IND (Part 2)

Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:45 am

Here's the deal folks. When the airline wants to announce the new destination(s), it will. Until then, it's all speculation from everyone. The info presented here is not new. Those who really "know" aren't going to spit it out until the airline is ready for them to do so. The 787 opens up new opportunities for many cities. It's an exciting time. Patience is the key. As for MSY, It's not a secret that the city, state, and airport have been aggressively pursuing the airline for some time. It's constantly talked about in tourism circles, and it's consistently mentioned as being something that will happen at some point in the not-too-distant future. Its not uncommon for cities/airports/regions to play things like this close to the chest. It's a big deal.

[Edited 2014-08-29 18:46:14]

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