CX HKG To SFO With Jumbo's

babaero · Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:57 am

This weekend marks the last 744 scheduled passenger flight between SFO and HKG for CX.

Service commenced on July 1st 1986 and routed HKG - YVR - SFO with 747-200 aircraft

Anyone have registration of aircraft which operated first flight back in 1986

Viscount724 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:03 am

Quoting babaero (Thread starter):
Service commenced on July 1st 1986 and routed HKG - YVR - SFO with 747-200 aircraft

It was only the short YVR-SFO tag-on sector that was new in 1986. CX had already been operating HKG-YVR for 3 years. YVR was their first North American destination in 1983.

LAXintl · Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:08 am

Remember CX dropped SFO after a few years.

They only started going HKG-SFO nonstop in December 1998.

Aaron747 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:10 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

Remember CX dropped SFO after a few years.

They only started going HKG-SFO nonstop in December 1998.

Correct. My father worked in HK for a good stretch of the mid-90s, and when I visited him summers it was always either NW SFO-NRT-HKG or AA/CX SFO-LAX-HKG.

Viscount724 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:47 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

Remember CX dropped SFO after a few years.

They only started going HKG-SFO nonstop in December 1998.

Correct. My father worked in HK for a good stretch of the mid-90s, and when I visited him summers it was always either NW SFO-NRT-HKG or AA/CX SFO-LAX-HKG.

Why didn't you use UA's nonstop SFO-HKG service, inherited from Pan Am in 1983? Pan Am started SFO-HKG nonstop with the 747SP sometime in the late 1970s. That was the first nonstop transpacific service to/from HKG. UA took it over when they purchased PA's Pacific routes and continued using the ex-PA 747SPs until they were replaced with the 744.

I expect the UA SFO-HKG nonstop was one reason why CX dropped SFO for some time after the initial tag-on service from YVR, as the CX route via YVR must have taken about 3 hours longer. CX could also usually fill their flights with YVR traffic so the tag-on 5th freedom sector didn't generate much additional revenue. And transpacific fares then were basically identical to all points on the west coast from YVR to LAX so they got the same revenue for a SFO-YVR-HKG passenger as for YVR-HKG.

SFOA380 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:11 pm

I thought CX dropped SFO after SQ was awarded the nonstop with the introduction of their 744.

LAXintl · Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:27 pm

Not exactly sure on the timing, but I think SFO got the axe as part of the move to open LAX in July 1990 with then brand new 744 nonstop to HKG.

Also when they relaunched SFO in 1998, it was with the A340, not 744.

A bit of trivia - John Slosar the Chairman of CX today, was a young station manager in SFO when the station opened in 1986!

legacyins · Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:25 pm

Sad to see the 744 go from SFO but CX has grown from SFO from their return in 1998. Even better was the relocation of their North American Headquarters from LA to San Francisco a few years ago. They are in the Qantas/Tiffany building on Union Square.

STT757 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:27 pm

I remember watching CX land at SFO from my room at the SFO Marriott, this was July 1989.

OA412 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):

Not exactly sure on the timing, but I think SFO got the axe as part of the move to open LAX in July 1990 with then brand new 744 nonstop to HKG.

I believe that's correct. It was dropped either right around when HKG-LAX started, or shortly after.

phishphan70 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:52 pm

My dad was a cargo manager in SFO in the 80's and early 90's before being transferred to LAX when CX pulled out of SFO. His commute was SFO-LAX Monday morning, LAX-SFO Friday evening. Needless to say, it was nice when he left the company and moved back home full-time, but he always says how much he loved working for CX and how great of a company it was/is.
For his 60th birthday, he took my brother and I to Thailand for a week of golf (rough life, huh?). We took CX SFO-HKG-BKK-HKG-SFO on the beautiful 744 on the transpac legs. I didn't realize that would be the last time for me, and as opportunities keep drying up, may have been my last 747 ride....

as739x · Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Also when they relaunched SFO in 1998, it was with the A340, not 744.

Bingo!!! And the flight departed from Americans old E concourse gates. I took the flight in '99

Quoting babaero (Thread starter):
Service commenced on July 1st 1986 and routed HKG - YVR - SFO with 747-200 aircraft

My memory may be a little faded, but was the tag on operated with an L-1011 for some time?

timz · Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:10 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 11):
the [YVR-SFO] tag on operated with an L-1011 for some time?

Bet no one can find a timetable showing that.

bharathkv · Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:23 pm

At last CX is changing its old 744 to new 777s. All ME and Asian airlines into SFO are moving towards new aircrafts and it was long time due for CX to remove 747s and put 777s on this route.

OA412 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 11):
Quoting babaero (Thread starter):
Service commenced on July 1st 1986 and routed HKG - YVR - SFO with 747-200 aircraft

My memory may be a little faded, but was the tag on operated with an L-1011 for some time?

Not sure about CX, but perhaps you're confusing them with DL? I know that before the M11 arrived on property, DL was operating PDX-ANC-HKG with the L10's.

Quoting bharathkv (Reply 13):
At last CX is changing its old 744 to new 777s. All ME and Asian airlines into SFO are moving towards new aircrafts and it was long time due for CX to remove 747s and put 777s on this route.

I seem to be one of the few people on this site actually saddened by this move. Yes the 744 is older, but it's incredibly sad to see it disappearing more and more, and being replaced by boring twins. I yearn for the days when airports like LAX were 747 meccas.

ORDJOE · Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:52 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 14):
I seem to be one of the few people on this site actually saddened by this move. Yes the 744 is older, but it's incredibly sad to see it disappearing more and more, and being replaced by boring twins. I yearn for the days when airports like LAX were 747 meccas.

Agreed, I understand why they are swapping a 77W on this, and yes there are advantages to flying across in that. It is just sort of an end of era. The 777 does not look nearly as iconic as the 747

Aaron747 · Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:55 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Why didn't you use UA's nonstop SFO-HKG service, inherited from Pan Am in 1983? Pan Am started SFO-HKG nonstop with the 747SP sometime in the late 1970s. That was the first nonstop transpacific service to/from HKG. UA took it over when they purchased PA's Pacific routes and continued using the ex-PA 747SPs until they were replaced with the 744.

My dad was a big airline fan and traveled for a living for many years - and was not a UA customer at the time. He probably wanted to make sure we were only going transpac into HKG on 'the best', as he used to say.

SFOA380 · Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:01 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 14):
I seem to be one of the few people on this site actually saddened by this move.

Oh I am saddened as well. NZ will follow soon. Soon the 747's will be all European plus UA... Hopefully we will see a KE or CA 748 one day. I'd imagine we'll have a few more A380 operators before long. I am guessing SFO will see the whale from BA and SQ sooner rather than later. As amazing as the A380 is, it does not hold a candle to the 747 aesthetically IMO.

laca773 · Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:06 am

How long did CX fly the A340s to SFO? I assume it wasn't too long due to the fuel consumption. Did people enjoy the CX A340s?

as739x · Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:33 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):

Was at least 2 years, from what I remember. I took CX SFO-HKG in '99 and I found it to be very pleasant. But that says a lot for the CX staff which was and still is top notch.

LAXintl · Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:43 am

According to the Db. - July 2002 first 744 picture @ SFO.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang

Photo comment also mentions upgauge from A340.

Max Q · Sat Aug 30, 2014 6:50 am

Quoting bharathkv (Reply 13):
At last CX is changing its old 744 to new 777s. All ME and Asian airlines into SFO are moving towards new aircrafts and it was long time due for CX to remove 747s and put 777s on this route.

It's a great, great shame.

VCEflyboy · Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:40 am

I think the CX livery is made for the 747. The same livery on all other aircraft make them look naked and disproportionate, but the CX 747 looks just stunning!

Aaron747 · Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:27 am

^
The old CX livery looked stunning on these birds too, especially with the Union Jack on the tail.

zeke · Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:32 am

I think we will also be seeing the last 747 flight to JNB on the 1st, probably only 5 passenger 747s left by the end of the year.

ktachiya · Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:56 pm

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 17):
Oh I am saddened as well. NZ will follow soon. Soon the 747's will be all European plus UA...

Wait... doesn't CI fly their B744 into SFO? I thought only the additional flights were A340 (seasonal)?

tommy1808 · Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
I assume it wasn't too long due to the fuel consumption.

you think they wanted to burn more fuel? By no standard is any a340 a fuel guzzler compared to a 747.

Best regards
Thomas

RayChuang · Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:44 am

While CX will fly the 77W between HKG and SFO for now, I expect that once CX takes deliveries of the 779 after 2020, they will assign that plane to the HKG-SFO route.

AF022 · Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:51 am

Quoting legacyins (Reply 7):
Even better was the relocation of their North American Headquarters from LA to San Francisco a few years ago. They are in the Qantas/Tiffany building on Union Square.

Why did CX move their offices to SFO? Seems like LAX would make more sense.

LAXintl · Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:08 am

Their offices were in SF, but relocated down to LA in 1990 when LAX opened. They moved back to SF in 2005.

Official reason was they wanted to focus and be closer to the Chinese market in SF, and also there was pressure from the HK Economic and Trade Association which had been also located in SF from the day of the initial flight. Another unoffical reason imo was their US country manager lived in Northern California. A bit ironic for him though, as within 1 year of the office move, he was assigned to India as general manager of South Asia/Middle East region.

Activity wise yes LAX is much bigger station for them. 4x daily pax service, plus 8 weekly freighters. They also have a LAX crew base.

CCA · Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:51 pm

HUF operated its last commercial service for CX today as CX507 KIX-HKG, it departs to Manchester on Thursday..

S75752 · Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting CCA (Reply 30):

What's in Manchester?

shengzhurou · Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:39 pm

B-hug will operate the LAST HKG-SFO-HKG flight on cx 870/879

LAXintl · Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:47 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 31):
What's in Manchester?

The scrap man

RE: Cathay 744 B-HUD At MAN, Why? (by EK413 Oct 3 2012 in Civil Aviation)

=

warden145 · Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:15 pm

Quoting OA412 (Reply 14):
I seem to be one of the few people on this site actually saddened by this move. Yes the 744 is older, but it's incredibly sad to see it disappearing more and more, and being replaced by boring twins. I yearn for the days when airports like LAX were 747 meccas.

You're not the only one...it's absolutely heart-breaking for me. I guess that, if I ever have a reason to go to Asia, I'll have to go to LAX and catch one of the A380's. I am NOT doing that crossing on a 777/A330!

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 17):
I'd imagine we'll have a few more A380 operators before long. I am guessing SFO will see the whale from BA and SQ sooner rather than later.

I sincerely hope you're right, although I don't know...SQ tried A380 service to SFO and it didn't last too long, and AFAIK they're not in a hurry to reinstate it. As for BA...I recall others on here saying that BA's A380 fleet is already spoken for in full. I guess that leaves SFO with 777's when the 747's retired. I dread that day...

Quoting SFOA380 (Reply 17):
As amazing as the A380 is, it does not hold a candle to the 747 aesthetically IMO.

Agreed completely!! I know economics are against this (and it seems like many on here are happy to dance on the 747's grave

), but I really wish a world could exist where 747-8i sales would take off...

Viscount724 · Sun Aug 31, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 11):
Quoting babaero (Thread starter):
Service commenced on July 1st 1986 and routed HKG - YVR - SFO with 747-200 aircraft

My memory may be a little faded, but was the tag on operated with an L-1011 for some time?

I lived in YVR during that period and never saw anything but a 742 on YVR-SFO. The only way they could have used an L-1011 would have required basing an aircraft and crew at YVR to fly only 4 hours a day YVR-SFO-YVR. And their YVR service was much less than daily then. Not a very good use of that aircraft. Would also be a poor product for SFO-HKG passengers, no better than a connection.

enginebird · Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:02 pm

Quoting warden145 (Reply 34):

I sincerely hope you're right, although I don't know...SQ tried A380 service to SFO and it didn't last too long, and AFAIK they're not in a hurry to reinstate it. As for BA...I recall others on here saying that BA's A380 fleet is already spoken for in full. I guess that leaves SFO with 777's when the 747's retired. I dread that day...

LH sends their A388s to SFO, but that does not compensate the loss of the 747s

747s are just wonderful planes, somple as that. I am glad there are at least a few 748i out there so that I can continue to fly on a 747 occassionally. Just flew LH's 748i upstairs last week and really liked it...

warden145 · Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting enginebird (Reply 36):
LH sends their A388s to SFO, but that does not compensate the loss of the 747s

Agreed, and I should note that my comment about 777's replacing 747's was referring specifically to BA's fleet, unless they decide to send an A380 to SFO...which I'm hoping they'll eventually do, but that's not looking very likely right now. At least with LH running an A380 on the FRA-SFO route, there's still a 4-engine option to Europe from SFO...

DocLightning · Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:56 pm

Quoting warden145 (Reply 37):
Agreed, and I should note that my comment about 777's replacing 747's was referring specifically to BA's fleet, unless they decide to send an A380 to SFO...which I'm hoping they'll eventually do, but that's not looking very likely right now. At least with LH running an A380 on the FRA-SFO route, there's still a 4-engine option to Europe from SFO...

LH also operates an A346 to MUC, IIRC.

We came back from Europe on August 15th on the AF A380 and I have to say the A380 is a very nice aircraft (although the windows are difficult to see out of). As we were loading our bags into our car in the parking lot right at the end of 28LR, we heard a characteristic roaring buzz and looked up. A CX 744 was passing overhead and her four RB211s were singing for us.

I knew then that it would probably be the last CX 744 I ever saw. And it was.

Bit by bit, SFO's 744s are going away.

These new giant twins are amazing triumphs of engineering, achieving new efficiencies and capabilities. But they all look alike.

warden145 · Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:04 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
LH also operates an A346 to MUC, IIRC.

Yep! LH 458/9...but, IIRC LH's 777 order's in part meant to replace the A340's, so while there may be a few good years left, I suspect her days are numbered.

For that matter, I wonder how long AF will keep the A380 on the SFO route? It'd be nice to see her permanently (at least in the summer), but we'll see...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 38):
Bit by bit, SFO's 744s are going away.

Yep

DocLightning · Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:22 am

Quoting warden145 (Reply 39):
Yep! LH 458/9...but, IIRC LH's 777 order's in part meant to replace the A340's, so while there may be a few good years left, I suspect her days are numbered.

The 77X's days are numbered and it hasn't even been built yet! I think the A340s will fly into the 2020s. After all, when is LH to get their first 777?

Quoting warden145 (Reply 39):
For that matter, I wonder how long AF will keep the A380 on the SFO route? It'd be nice to see her permanently (at least in the summer), but we'll see...

I think the post-747 model for AF would be A380 during the summer and 77W during the winter.

My last 747 flight was SYD-SFO in 2008. I don't believe I've boarded one since then. I've crossed oceans on the 787, the A330, the A340, and the A380 since then, but not a 747. I hope to have one last chance one day.

It's also interesting that PR is pulling their last 744 out of SFO around the same day CX does (i thnk today is CX's last 744?). I wonder why airlines like to send their last 744s to SFO.

[Edited 2014-08-31 17:26:00]

flythere · Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:12 am

Quoting shengzhurou (Reply 32):
B-hug will operate the LAST HKG-SFO-HKG flight on cx 870/879

B-HUG~ A Big Hug to SFO as farewell

upwardfacing · Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 29):
Activity wise yes LAX is much bigger station for them. 4x daily pax service, plus 8 weekly freighters. They also have a LAX crew base.

From that standpoint perhaps NYC would be a better option as a HQ, with JFK an even bigger station and now EWR online? Anyway, I don't know how relevant locations for headquarters are, at a time when US corporations have done so many inversions abroad.

One notable effect for SFO pax is that capacity is definitely going to be reduced, with the 744 service replaced by a 77W. From speculation on another aviation website I won't name, a third daily HKG-SFO is unlikely to come online until 2016. (This should not be surprising given the opening of new stations like EWR and BOS, and consolidation of CX's nonstop monopoly positions at JFK and LAX.)

johnboy · Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting af022 (Reply 28):
Why did CX move their offices to SFO? Seems like LAX would make more sense.

As we like to say in Northern California....."quality over quantity."

upwardfacing · Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:54 am

Quoting johnboy (Reply 43):
As we like to say in Northern California....."quality over quantity."

Well, New York seems to give Cathay Pacific both quality and quantity.

AA94 · Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 14):
I seem to be one of the few people on this site actually saddened by this move. Yes the 744 is older, but it's incredibly sad to see it disappearing more and more, and being replaced by boring twins. I yearn for the days when airports like LAX were 747 meccas.

If I were just another disinterested passenger looking to pass the time, I'd welcome the 777 with open arms. But as someone interested in aviation history, it's sad to see the iconic 747 disappearing.

We all knew this day would likely come eventually, but it's sad nonetheless.

Pellegrine · Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:55 am

Sad to see another 744 route go. I was going to try to make this one in J, but can't make it. ;'(

Quoting laca773 (Reply 18):
How long did CX fly the A340s to SFO? I assume it wasn't too long due to the fuel consumption. Did people enjoy the CX A340s?

In no way did A343s use significantly more fuel than comparable airplanes of the time.

DocLightning · Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:24 am

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 42):
One notable effect for SFO pax is that capacity is definitely going to be reduced, with the 744 service replaced by a 77W. From speculation on another aviation website I won't name, a third daily HKG-SFO is unlikely to come online until 2016. (This should not be surprising given the opening of new stations like EWR and BOS, and consolidation of CX's nonstop monopoly positions at JFK and LAX.)

Well, UA could start flying an extra 787 if there's enough butts to fill the seats. Otherwise, we will see what happens to fares.

CX's 74K configuration is (was) 9F/46J/26P/278Y.

Their 77W four-class configuration is 6F/53J/34P/182Y. There is overall a modest increase in most of the premium capacity and a decrease by about 1/3 of Y seats. With a trip fuel burn ~1/3 lower or so, this is a much more favorable proposition for CX.

LAXintl · Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:31 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 47):
Their 77W four-class configuration is 6F/53J/34P/182Y.

As I recall CX870/879(daytime flight) is now run with 3-class 77W while nightime CX872/873 sees the 4-class.

Bit of a split for some reason.

upwardfacing · Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:20 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 47):
Well, UA could start flying an extra 787 if there's enough butts to fill the seats. Otherwise, we will see what happens to fares.

I'm not sure of the relevance of such a move for Cathay loyalists and for passengers intending on travelling via HKG on Cathay to somewhere else.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 48):
As I recall CX870/879(daytime flight) is now run with 3-class 77W while nightime CX872/873 sees the 4-class.

Another factor that will squeeze out some passengers, or will push them to transfer via LAX, for the time being.

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