Swiss Aviation Thread #37

aviationaware · Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:28 pm

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 98):
I don't get it... why not the A350 when they announced already orders for the A320Neo ... this only causes problems in the transition between Short- and Longhaul Pilots.
But maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get the point....

You vastly overestimate the financial benefit of fleet commonality. It's there, but it's not nearly the most important factor.

LXLucien · Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:16 am

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 100):
You vastly overestimate the financial benefit of fleet commonality. It's there, but it's not nearly the most important factor

Call me old-fashioned but for an airline the size of LX, I think this could be a major cost factor.

Right now one type of simulator can be used for the whole fleet. And space is limited here in Zurich-Airport. So if they want to put Airbus and besides that Boeing 777, as well as the C-Series one (? are there plans to do that?)... I don't know where they want to put them...

Also I don't know the procedures with Cabin Crew, but can they switch Airbus 340/ B777 or are the also limited to one?
If they are limited, I wish LX good luck with the planing. ATM their planing system is at the limit and if there is a new type, it gets even more complicated... Oh joy!

Either way, I know it's possible and I know for some of you it's logical to have B777 as well as A330/320 but for me... it simply doesn't make sense.

As I said in the beginning of the 777 Order, for me it's simply a tactic to merge the two pilot groups or to put pressure on one of them.
And it worked, they canceled the GAV and LX can now say: well we don't have an agreement and in a year or so the 77W will be delivered so we have to "take" what's left and that's the Avro Pilots.
Then the Airbus pilots will make commitments and there's a lot of blabla and in the end LX has a new contract with them (to way worse conditions as before) and has "won" the battle once again...

EDIT:
Don't take me wrong, I have nothing against Avro pilots in the B777 cockpit!

[Edited 2014-11-20 23:17:25]

Alsatian · Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:29 am

According to airlineroute.net Helvetic will start E90 operations next May

From 03MAY 15 :

2L 074 ZRH 1315 - 1450 BOD 4 E90
2L 074 ZRH 1825 - 2000 BOD 7 E90

2L 075 BOD 1535 - 1720 ZRH 4 E90
2L 075 BOD 2045 - 2225 ZRH 7 E90

From 17MAY15 :

2L 372 BRN 1730 - 1920 BDS 7 E90

2L 373 BDS 2005 - 2000 BRN 7 E90

2L 020 BRN 1230 - 1415 PMI 7 E90
2L 020 BRN 1700 - 1840 PMI 4 E90
2L 020 BRN 1835 - 2015 PMI 6 E90

2L 021 PMI 1500 - 1645 BRN 7 E90
2L 021 PMI 1925 - 2110 BRN 4 E90
2L 021 PMI 2055 - 2240 BRN 6 E90

From 06JUN15 :

2L 350 BRN 1425 - 1550 OLB 6 E90

2L 351 OLB 1630 - 1750 BRN 6 E90

From 07JUL15 :

2L 344 ZRH 0700 - 0855 SUF 4 E90
2L 344 ZRH 1800 - 1955 SUF 2 E90

2L 345 SUF 0940 - 1155 ZRH 4 E90
2L 345 SUF 2040 - 2240 ZRH 2 E90

aviationaware · Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 101):
Call me old-fashioned but for an airline the size of LX, I think this could be a major cost factor.

It is, but it's not the only one.

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 101):
And space is limited here in Zurich-Airport.

If it's really only space for a simulator that is a very attractive investment because the 777s is such a popular aircraft - that's not a real problem.

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 101):
Also I don't know the procedures with Cabin Crew, but can they switch Airbus 340/ B777 or are the also limited to one?

Cabin crew is not usually bound to single aircraft types, this is not an issue.

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 101):
As I said in the beginning of the 777 Order, for me it's simply a tactic to merge the two pilot groups or to put pressure on one of them.

Entirely possible.
The decision to buy aircraft is a very complicated equation with many variables. One of them certainly is added commonality cost, another is the potential savings made by utilizing cheaper crew. But it is also a matter of availability, capacity, operating costs, capital costs and much more.
For Swiss, it is very likely that the potential for crew savings as well as the aircrafts capacity and availability swung the pendulum towards the 77W.

ALAfly · Fri Nov 21, 2014 5:02 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 102):
According to airlineroute.net Helvetic will start E90 operations next May

When are the E90's will arrive at LX? And from where they are coming?

DALCE · Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:57 am

I thought the first one should arrive in DEC14 already.

mozart · Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:28 am

Has anyone seen confirmation of the schedule for GVA-Saint Tropez?

I have some doubts about that route because in some recent timetable release I saw all the new routes' schedules except St. Tropez. And I wonder which aircraft they'd be taking on that route. Can St. Tropez handle a Dash 8-400? It could deal with the -300 and -200 I think, but the -400?

One other question, going a bit back in history? LX served LUG in the past with Avros. What happened at the BAZL that suddenly made it impossible to use Avros to LUG?

runway23 · Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:13 pm

Quoting mozart (Reply 106):
I have some doubts about that route because in some recent timetable release I saw all the new routes' schedules except St. Tropez. And I wonder which aircraft they'd be taking on that route. Can St. Tropez handle a Dash 8-400? It could deal with the -300 and -200 I think, but the -400?

They have slots for it and it was briefly published. You can fly Q400s to St Tropez as back in the day Baboo were doing so. That said, for one or two summers F7 (i.e. baboo not etihad regional) was blocked at the last minute from flying there and instead had to fly to Toulon. It was one of F7's best performers on a yield basis, so no reason LX won't make it work either.

So apart for the nimbies there is also the question of pilots having to go through training because of the short runway and terrain. I imagine that one of these points might be blocking LX from wanting to put the flight for sale and LX/VO might be trying to figure out how to do pilot training there too.

Loran · Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:20 pm

Does anyone know what the An-124 is doing in ZRH? Believe its Volga-Dnepr.
It is just starting its engines after about 28 hrs on the ground.

Thanks,
Loran

[Edited 2014-11-27 07:34:01]

LXLucien · Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting Loran (Reply 108):
Does anyone know what the An-124 is doing in ZRH?

Sorry I don't know the exact reason for it's stay in ZRH, but it's most likely big machines like turbines or something like that.
The same AN124 was already here in October, so I guess it's the second part of the delivery.

viasa · Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:08 pm

Helvetic Embraer thread: Helvetic Takes Over Niki's E190s (by viasa Dec 1 2014 in Civil Aviation)

phofmannsair · Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:23 pm

VLM is restarting flights between Antwerp and Geneva as of January 26, 2015 with Fokker 50!

2 daily flights (morning/evening) every weekdays
1 daily flight on SAT/SUN

VLM's Press Release

I hope to see the SSJ100 very soon here in Geneva!

Regards, Patrick.

Alsatian · Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:55 pm

The new Eurowings will likely base two A320s in Basel next summer.

In german : Neue Billigflieger ab Basel? Lufthansa rudert zurück or Basel wird Standort von Eurowings

phofmannsair · Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:02 pm

Quoting Alsatian (Reply 112):

It was already announced back this Summer here. SWISS is totally pulling out of BSL in 2015 and be replaced by Eurowings. They plan to base up to 4 Airbus A320 at the begining.

PhilInBRN · Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:06 pm

The first Swiss European Avro RJ100 has been ferried to Kemble airfield for scrap out. The frame to be scrapped out is HB-IXR (wearing Star Alliance c/s). It is expected to be joined by another frame in January.

DALCE · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:24 pm

Somehow it's sad that the phase out of these workhorses has started. Where AMS lost their Fokker-Farm, ZRH will start to loose their Avro-Apron

RJ100 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:32 pm

Not sure about Eurowings and Basel. It was announced in summer. All LX flights from BSL are still loaded and bookable for summer 2015.

I would like to see Eurowings here and wish them good luck. But with only 2 A-320? EasyJet will not be afraid.

LXLucien · Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:51 am

Quoting PhilInBRN (Reply 114):
The first Swiss European Avro RJ100 has been ferried to Kemble airfield for scrap out. The frame to be scrapped out is HB-IXR (wearing Star Alliance c/s). It is expected to be joined by another frame in January.

Thanks for the info, so sad to see them go. I will miss them

PhilInBRN · Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:01 pm

Quoting DALCE (Reply 115):

Somehow it's sad that the phase out of these workhorses has started. Where AMS lost their Fokker-Farm, ZRH will start to loose their Avro-Apron

I just had a look at the seasonal timetable of Zurich Airport. The first Helvetic E190 flight that I could find was on Dec. 18 to WAW. Afterwards, more and more flights operated by E190s show up. WAW and PRG see the bulk of the E-Jet operated flights.

RJ100 · Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:57 pm

So it is now confirmed that Swiss will stop flying from Basel as per end of May 2015! It is still unclear whether Eurowings will take over or not.

Its the worst strategy you can have for this airport. The longer you wait the more competition arrives to Basel. Vueling announced flights to BCN already. I see BA to LCY or Darwin to fi some gaps.

I thought LX/LH wanted to threaten the competition, not to attract them.

runway23 · Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:06 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 119):
I thought LX/LH wanted to threaten the competition, not to attract them.

IMHO the solution is quite clear, train to ZRH, feeder flights to MUC/FRA/BRU. Perhaps a Germanwings flight to HAM on top of DUS. Means in the end BSL loses LX service to LCY, HAM, BCN, PRG. It is not 2 Eurowings aircraft on the same routes that would really make a big difference, especially with ZRH being quite near to BSL.

Blue_Angel · Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:41 pm

Any expansion for Easyjet Switzerland ?

RJ100 · Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:51 pm

Quoting runway23 (Reply 120):
train to ZRH

I know that this is the Intention. I just think it is not a very good strategy. LX said that their main competitors are LCCs and the Middle East Carriers. Now they open up even more possibilities for them. I'm sure BSL-LCY would be an attractive route for Etihad Regional.

As for the train or car to Zurich LX forgets that it works in the opposite direction as well. easyJet is fishing in LX's home market since a long time already.

BTW, the direct train from Basel to Zurich airport stops 8 times in between and it runs only once every hour. By car you risk to miss your flight because of the almost daily traffic jam in the Gubrist-Tunnel.

[Edited 2014-12-08 12:52:53]

runway23 · Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:06 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 122):
I know that this is the Intention. I just think it is not a very good strategy.

It was unfortunately unavoidable. LX did not have a critical mass at BSL.

Although their press release is very hard and I question whether it is wise to say a market lacks premium demand when you have a couple of Switzerland's largest companies based there. I believe Swiss will be back one day in Basel and within the next 7-8 years as LX(/SR) seems to close/drawdown then reopen routes/airports in roughly that timeframe.

The problem really isn't BSL (or GVA, as GVA has not been profitable for LX either), but LX's inability to offer a proper product portfolio to both over time. If easyJet became market leader in both markets it is because they offered the right mix of destinations, prices that people have now come to believe are the lowest. LX has the right product on board and on the ground, but seems to have a hard time getting good yield on most European routes, except a couple of trunk routes from ZRH and a very small handful from GVA.

It is quite sad that Crossair an airline so heavily tied to BSL and SWISS who followed on, will not serve BSL anymore.

LAXintl · Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:25 am

I well remember the Crossair Eurohub in Basle. It was a nifty little operation.

Also to think that Basle at one time had nonstop New York service on Swissair.

DDR · Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:18 am

If someone could answer this question I would be very thankful. I understand that Crossair basically took over Swissair to form the new Swiss. Did the Crossair flight attendants and pilots then move across to the larger aircraft? And what was the seniority issue with the SR crews?

douglasyxz · Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:45 am

I would not paint the picture that black. 2 A320 at BSL is just the kick-off of EW's transition from CRJ900 to Airbus. By the time all 23 Airbus have arived, the fleet at BSL will be bigger with more connections than today.

Assuming that EW can produce cheaper than LH and LX and thus can offer cheaper fares, the move might result in higher market share and finally, as the profit of all of them goes in to the very same big pocket, it can be a win for LX, too.

We shall not forget that only with a healthy parent company, LX can afford buying new aircraft and in the long run survive. In the current market outlook in Europe and globally, looking at the consolidation that has taken place in the US, and taking into account the synergies LH, LX, OS and SN and their belonging LCCs can achieve, the whole Wings project makes sense, IMO.

Let's give it a little time and I'm confident that besides the LH group, the pasengers in D,A,CH and BE are going to benefit.

runway23 · Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:35 am

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 126):
I would not paint the picture that black. 2 A320 at BSL is just the kick-off of EW's transition from CRJ900 to Airbus. By the time all 23 Airbus have arived, the fleet at BSL will be bigger with more connections than today.

Except nothing has really been decided at this point as to whether Eurowings will actually base at BSL. I think from the wording of LX's press release and timing, it appears that Eurowings will probably not open up a base in BSL. The market is just too dominated by easyJet and I doubt EW will want to battle against easyJet on what is already a market they have lost.

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 126):
We shall not forget that only with a healthy parent company, LX can afford buying new aircraft and in the long run survive. In the current market outlook in Europe and globally, looking at the consolidation that has taken place in the US, and taking into account the synergies LH, LX, OS and SN and their belonging LCCs can achieve, the whole Wings project makes sense, IMO.

I don't think the strategy is that clear cut. Switzerland remains a premium market where if you have a good product and offer good prices it can be well received. There is also the fact that ZRH is a very expensive airport to operate from and that as such most LCCs have essentially stayed clear of it and that GVA serves as LX/LH's testing ground, in a market that LH as a group cannot really afford to lose either, though heavily dominated by easyJet.

Quoting DDR (Reply 125):
If someone could answer this question I would be very thankful. I understand that Crossair basically took over Swissair to form the new Swiss. Did the Crossair flight attendants and pilots then move across to the larger aircraft? And what was the seniority issue with the SR crews?

Most Crossair staff stayed on the Crossair aircraft that transitioned to Swiss then back to Swiss European. Most Swissair that did go to Swiss stayed on their respective aircaft. It has been almost 13 years since Swissair shut down, so at this point a lot of mixed now or new hires.

Yakamoz · Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:33 pm

Planned Helvetic E190 operation for SWISS as follow.

eff 22DEC14 Zurich – Dusseldorf 3-5 weekly
eff 22DEC14 Zurich – Prague Up to 10-12 weekly
eff 22DEC14 Zurich – Warsaw Up to 13 weekly
eff 03JAN15 Zurich – Belgrade 1 weekly (Except certain weeks)

Following routes to receive one-off service on certain dates, up to 28MAR15:
Zurich – Amsterdam 10JAN15 / 07FEB15
Zurich – Berlin Tegel 28DEC14 / 03JAN15
Zurich – Birmingham 04JAN15
Zurich – Brussels 08FEB15
Zurich – Budapest 23DEC14 / 25DEC14 / 30DEC14
Zurich – Frankfurt 24DEC14
Zurich – Hanover 05FEB15
Zurich – Madrid 24DEC14
Zurich – Oslo 19JAN15
Zurich – Paris CDG 28DEC14 / 21MAR15
Zurich – Venice 31JAN15

RJ100 · Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:32 pm

New day and new luck for Basel airport.

Turkish Airlines increases flights to 14 weekly on BSL-IST.

Wizzair opens flights to Nis in Serbia twice weekly effective July. It's the 6th destination out of Basel. I guess Prague is the next one to follow.

As for LCY the airport seems to be in contact with several UK airlines.

PhilInBRN · Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:02 pm

First Helvetic E190 out of the paint job:

http://skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=9083

DALCE · Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:56 pm

The simple livery suits the jungle-jet well

Viscount724 · Sat Dec 13, 2014 12:18 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 124):
Also to think that Basle at one time had nonstop New York service on Swissair.

Didn't last long. Less than a year if memory correct. Used the A310-300.

mercure1 · Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 132):
Didn't last long. Less than a year if memory correct. Used the A310-300.

Its was a bit longer. 1998 till April 2000 - SR118/119 6x weekly. First on A313 and briefly on A330 also.
They also announced relaunch for 2001, but world events and SR grounding changed that.

Also one should remember that Crossair itself was seeking to acquire its own A310 fleet for the Eurohub to serve Americas and MidEast/Africa regions but that plan also died.

I always though this would have been the market for Swiss to try Privatair on.

Wingtips56 · Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:20 am

LX has now cancelled the PRG-BSL flight I had booked for June, and a search around the dates shows no service ... obviously they've loaded the market withdrawal. I just happened to check my reservation in the Swiss website and couldn't display it. I went to my original Orbitz booking to see it "Cancelled". No contact, no advice, not alternate flight booked. I could have just shown up at PRG to a blank stare.

I ended up on the phone, being passed from Orbitz somewhere to Swiss in South Africa....horrible phone connection. I talked my way into being protected to ZRH, but the agent had to book me on the train connection from ZRH to Basel SBB to keep my fare...terminating in ZRH would have been a voluntary change at my expense. I had booked the BSL flight as the route was half the price of ZRH. Orbitz was just going to refund my fare.

I'll just not show up for the train connection and catch my ride from ZRH.

LXLucien · Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:45 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 133):
I always though this would have been the market for Swiss to try Privatair on.

No it failed because the market was too small.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 134):
I'll just not show up for the train connection and catch my ride from ZRH.

I always thought about how LX will manage this, thanks for your report. Maybe they would have made something by themselves at the beginning of the new year as it is still 6 months in advance...

mercure1 · Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:50 pm

Quoting LXLucien (Reply 135):
No it failed because the market was too small.

Yes I can see A310/330 be too big but a Privatair BBJ with 70-90 seats might be better match for market size.

RJ100 · Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:14 am

According to Swiss there is no market to everywhere from BSL. But the airport will manage to see 6.5 millions pax this year and around 7 millions next year.

Basel-USA is difficult because there are a lot of flights to Zurich already and it would cannibalize these flights.

Also the market changed again since 2000, demand is higher today due to the higher amount of expats living here. Apart from the pharma industry Colgate and Fossil have located their European HQ in Basel just to name two of them. Maybe in one day an airline will give it a try again.

runway23 · Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:48 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 137):
According to Swiss there is no market to everywhere from BSL. But the airport will manage to see 6.5 millions pax this year and around 7 millions next year.

I think you are taking the press release out of context here. They said there is no premium demand ex BSL for an upmarket carrier such as SWISS.

I have a difficult time believing that at least BSL-LCY was not profitable during all these years.

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 134):

LX has now cancelled the PRG-BSL flight I had booked for June, and a search around the dates shows no service ... obviously they've loaded the market withdrawal. I just happened to check my reservation in the Swiss website and couldn't display it. I went to my original Orbitz booking to see it "Cancelled". No contact, no advice, not alternate flight booked. I could have just shown up at PRG to a blank stare.

It's a flight over six months from now, give it time and in such a case it is the responsibility of your travel agent not the airline to contact you.

SQ1 · Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:13 am

What Swiss is doing out of BSL is absolutely ridiculous! Building up, moving out, exploring new Markets, pulling out again!
Dear Swiss, if you think that there is no Market out of BSL that suits your need, stay out and concentrate on your home Turf ZRH.

As a side note I have to mention that LCY out of BSL was more profitable than out of any other Swiss City!
For decades Novartis and Roche were filling the lower decks of the flights with cargo out of ZRH.
Roche has a blocked space Agreement with LX on the flights to SFO run for the People of Genetec.
Novartis almost alone filled the Swissair A310 Bunsiness Class on the flight to EWR. The 310 suited the route very well.
Only when SR changed to the bigger 330 the flight was canx.

There is a good o/d high end market out of BSL but the 2 Airports are just too close together. It's their good right to concentrate
on ZRH but please dear Swiss stay with the Facts and dont communicate rubbish. Stay out of BSL. In the end they have Mission accomplished:
Use BSL based Crossair to save Swissair2! And nobody says anything......shame on you LX!!!

LXLucien · Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 136):
Quoting LXLucien (Reply 135):
No it failed because the market was too small.

Yes I can see A310/330 be too big but a Privatair BBJ with 70-90 seats might be better match for market size.

Yes, but too small for 60 Business Seats when there is a market for that in ZRH.

JU068 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:10 pm

Any news on Etihad Regional? How are they doing? From what I can see, they are not doing too well.

DALCE · Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:27 pm

altbough not a route in Switzerland, I geard they will suspend AMS-DRS, after they cancelled AMS-Cambridge last year after a short while. Do not know about other routes though

JU068 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:53 pm

Quoting dalce (Reply 142):

I think they also cut the route from Dusseldorf to London. They are planning some routes for summer but who knows what will happen with those.
I suppose that they are obliged by law to publish their financial performance?

LXA340 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 141):

Hopefully they will be grounded in 2015 and that whole night mare will be over a year after it began

Those Gulf airlines are causing enough damage to the legacy airlines, absolutely no need to have them operate a regional subsidiary outside their home country.

DALCE · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:49 pm

Darwin was a nice airline, now they are pain in the *rse for at least Swiss, but all legacies are looking at this EY Trojan horse.....sorry for the Darwin lovers, but their baby died due to the AED's from EY.....

JU068 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:54 pm

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 144):
absolutely no need to have them operate a regional subsidiary outside their home country.

You mean like Air Berlin, Alitalia, Air Serbia...

kl911 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 144):
absolutely no need to have them operate a regional subsidiary outside their home country.

Like Lufthansa has Swiss, Austrian etc?? Dream on.. Free market benefits us all, cheaper fares, better service.

runway23 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting LXA340 (Reply 144):
Hopefully they will be grounded in 2015 and that whole night mare will be over a year after it began Those Gulf airlines are causing enough damage to the legacy airlines, absolutely no need to have them operate a regional subsidiary outside their home country.

F7 do contribute to employment in Switzerland and they are still majority owned by Swiss people, a lot more than for example SWISS who claims to be the flag carrier of Switzerland but actually has less Swiss ownership than Etihad Regional or easyJet Switzerland...

LXLucien · Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:24 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 148):
F7 do contribute to employment in Switzerland and they are still majority owned by Swiss people, a lot more than for example SWISS who claims to be the flag carrier of Switzerland but actually has less Swiss ownership than Etihad Regional or easyJet Switzerland...

Darwin is in my opinion important to the economy in the Italian part of Switzerland, but saying they are contribute to employment in Switzerland - not so sure about that. Well yes they have an office in LUG and do employ pilots, but where did they found Pilots with Saab licenses? Same thing goes with the new ATR (which are mostly wet leased).
Yes they created jobs, but for who?
Also they are still owned by Swiss people as you said, but who runs the club is still to be determined - answer from FOCA to be given by January or February I think.

But if this whole Etihad Regional thing won't work, I still would be very sad. As I said, it's important for Ticino to have an Airline who not only connects them with ZRH, but also direct routes to other cities.
I don't know if LUG is still a part of the F7 plan, they only serve some Italian routes and GVA apart from ZRH. And I don't know if F7 even does have a plan for the future. At the moment it's very strange, lots of routes getting canceled, frequencies are getting lowered. At least ZRH-LUG is again double daily in January, but FLR once daily in the evening? Why on earth? LX has double or more daily flights for years.
Maybe time will tell what they actually want to do with F7.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 147):
Like Lufthansa has Swiss, Austrian etc?? Dream on.. Free market benefits us all, cheaper fares, better service.

To all? What about employees?

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