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PHX787
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HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:27 am

Love the title yet?     

I know this was on the AA Painted airframes thread but I deem it needs its own thread:

http://www.avgeekery.com/blog/2014/9.../american-debuts-its-heritage-jets

I dont know about you, but that HP livery with AA titles looks interesting  
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Raventech
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:40 am

Hopefully that's a temporary sticker and at next major overhaul they scale it to proper size. Think it will look nice once they do that
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:54 am

Quoting Raventech (Reply 1):
Hopefully that's a temporary sticker and at next major overhaul they scale it to proper size.

  

The titles are far too small.
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N766UA
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:00 am

Why wouldn't they just make it billboard, like the rest of the fleet? America West's titles were billboard, it'd fit right in.
 
NWADC9
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:09 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):

Why wouldn't they just make it billboard, like the rest of the fleet? America West's titles were billboard, it'd fit right in.

Bonus points if it was in the same typeface as the original liveries!
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TW870
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:14 am

Why does it have American titles at all? It makes the heritage jet project much less concise overall. I would just make it a historically accurate flying museum piece, and then have a card in the seat pockets to explain to passengers what the plane represents. I know that US did the mixed titles thing too. But given the controversy that so many mergers cause, a re-titled historic livery just seems more painful than classic. I would love to see a TWA retrojet. But for many, many reasons, a TWA retrojet with American titles would not make sense.
 
etops1
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:15 am

Because the other Heritage jets . Piedmont , PSA, and Allegheny have a cheat line running across the windows . The billboard style would not go well . Hence the titles above the windows . They needed to do it this way for consistency .
 
Raventech
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:15 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):
Why wouldn't they just make it billboard, like the rest of the fleet? America West's titles were billboard, it'd fit right in.

They probably just made a sticker to cover the US Airways titles instead sending it to the paint shop for billboard titles, a lot quicker. I'm hoping that they will eventually give it proper billboard titles.
 
AA737-823
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:18 am

It looks pretty bad. I'm a HUGE fan of the heritage jets idea, overall, but this particular implementation could have used a little more... refinement. In my opinion.
 
f18raider
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:18 am

Quoting Raventech (Reply 7):

It actually went to Roswell though. Was there for an extended period of time.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N838AW
 
etops1
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:38 am

The aircraft was completely repainted . Let's be grateful that they are doing retro jets in the first place .
 
AA94
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:54 am

Quoting etops1 (Reply 10):
The aircraft was completely repainted . Let's be grateful that they are doing retro jets in the first place .

I get where you're coming from, but (personally), I'd rather have someone not do something at all rather than do it half-ass.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:01 am

I think it looks great and can't wait to see TWA!

Quoting etops1 (Reply 10):
Let's be grateful that they are doing retro jets in the first place .

Spot on!
 
jb1087xna
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:09 am

I think I'd rather see them with the original airline titles instead of American. If they're afraid it would cause confusion, I'd at least test it before assuming that. The airport gate and all information associated with the flight would all obviously say American.
 
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JBo
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:14 am

For everyone who is whining about the heritage liveries having the modern AA titles:

1) Keep in mind that having a fully-titled aircraft would be confusing to the significantly less-informed traveling public. If John Smith is booked on an AA flight out of PHX and sees a "Piedmont" aircraft pulling up to the gate, he's going to wonder what's going on.

2) They are legally required to display the name of the operating carrier somewhere on the fuselage, so even if they had the full classic titles, they would still have to put "Operated by American Airlines" somewhere on the fuselage.

3) America West, US Airways, and Reno Air are the only heritage liveries that don't have the classic airline name on the tail. Allegheny, Piedmont, PSA, TWA, and AirCal all had their names on the tail as part of the livery design, which means that most of the heritage liveries have BOTH the former and present carrier names on the aircraft.

From a Brand Management standpoint, it makes better sense overall to have the current "American" titles on the fuselage as a reminder of the who is actually operating the aircraft. To phrase it another way, having the "American" name on the fuselage exemplifies the "Heritage" aspect of showing what that airline has become a part of today. It also adds a sense of consistency that goes across all of the heritage liveries to date.
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f18raider
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:28 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 14):

I don't think that's why people don't like it.

I'm sure everyone understands that the American titles have to be on the aircraft somewhere, just as US Airways titles were there before.

The issue is with how they implemented the titles on the fuse. AA could have done a lot more with the space available. I always thought that the old US Airways titles looked great on the retro liveries. Pulled it off well, but not here.
 
warden145
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:35 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):
I think it looks great and can't wait to see TWA!

Forgive me if I missed it, but which TWA livery are they planning to use?
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:36 am

Quoting warden145 (Reply 16):

It's going to be the red stripe livery I believe.
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PHX787
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:40 am

Quoting warden145 (Reply 16):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):
I think it looks great and can't wait to see TWA!

Forgive me if I missed it, but which TWA livery are they planning to use?
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 17):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 12):

I hope thy use the livery they had before the AA merger
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RyanairGuru
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:48 am

Thinking further, I think the titles are too small and that they shouldn't have incorporated the flight symbol. I'm not talking about billboard titles, but the "above the windows" titles do appear to me to be too small. I think that notching them up a size or too, and just using the word "American" rather than including the flight symbol as well, would have made the livery flow much better.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
I hope thy use the livery they had before the AA merger

Negative, they've already announced that it will be red stripe.
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SXDFC
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 17):
It's going to be the red stripe livery I believe.

I think its only fair that the TWA retrojet should be on a 737. I understand the rest are on the A319, but the 738 would be at least the closest thing to a TW 727 that one could see in the 2010's and beyond..

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):

I hope thy use the livery they had before the AA merger

Sharp livery, but not as iconic as the "Red Stripe."
 
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JBo
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:54 am

Quoting f18raider (Reply 15):
I'm sure everyone understands that the American titles have to be on the aircraft somewhere, just as US Airways titles were there before.

The issue is with how they implemented the titles on the fuse. AA could have done a lot more with the space available. I always thought that the old US Airways titles looked great on the retro liveries. Pulled it off well, but not here.

Well, the issue remains that the majority of the retro liveries have cheatlines, so the AA titles are going to be restricted to above the windowline in almost all of those applications. This particular HP livery and RenoAir are the only ones that had billboard titles of any kind, and I'm not sure a billboard-style application of the new AA logo on those liveries would look as good as everyone else thinks it would.
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PHX787
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:54 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 19):
Negative, they've already announced that it will be red stripe.
Quoting SXDFC (Reply 20):
Sharp livery, but not as iconic as the "Red Stripe."

You guys got a link?
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ckfred
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:14 am

A retro scheme works well, when the carrier is the same. For example, AA had a retro 757, using the same livery as in 1959, when it introduced the 707 on JFK-LAX. The retro 737 had the same livery as when AA started taking delivery of its 727s in the mid 1960s.

When you start painting liveries of carriers that have merged with other carriers, then it can become confusing.

That said, I assume that there will be at least 1 jet in a US livery, although the new AA could pick one of several US liveries (the current one, the predominantly navy blue livery, the livery with US Air on a blue tail, and the bare-metal livery). Will there be any AA retro jets?

Yes, I know that they have plenty of retro jets right now, including the MD-80 fleet and the 757s and 763s slated for retirement in the next few years. They will be in bare metal until they fly to the desert.

But, is there a plan to maintain a retro jet in one of AA's bare metal liveries?
 
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FedExFlyerPHL
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:14 am

One of the things I liked about this and other heritage colors were that the USAirways titles were in the appropriate color for that color scheme. This, on the other hand, is just their normal title. I think if you changed it to the appropriate color and make it a bit bigger, it would look better.

On another note, are they going to keep both HP heritage jets or just this one?

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iFlyLOTs
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:16 am

Quoting JBo (Reply 14):
1) Keep in mind that having a fully-titled aircraft would be confusing to the significantly less-informed traveling public. If John Smith is booked on an AA flight out of PHX and sees a "Piedmont" aircraft pulling up to the gate, he's going to wonder what's going on.

If I remember correctly US had an issue with this on one of their planes that was in the Star livery, a passenger got confused and refused to board because it wasn't his plane as far as he could tell

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 17):
It's going to be the red stripe livery I believe.

I thought it was going to be double red?

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 20):
I think its only fair that the TWA retrojet should be on a 737. I understand the rest are on the A319, but the 738 would be at least the closest thing to a TW 727 that one could see in the 2010's and beyond..

I think I remember reading that the airlines that went into American (TWA, Reno Air, AirCal, and maybe, hopefully, Trans Caribbean) will be on the 738, and the airlines that went into USAirways will remain on the A320s
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etops1
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:28 am

The TWA retro jet will be the double red stripe livery . All LAA retro's will painted on the 737-800's. TW , Reno , and AirCal . All LUS retro's will be completely repainted on the A319's they currently operate on . AA will also keep a LAA 737-800 in the bear metal scheme and a LUS A319 in the current US livery .
 
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:35 am

It's too bad that on all the heritage jets the word American isn't just in the font/scheme of the original airline's name. For example imagine the America West titles as they used to be on the heritage jet above. Now think of those titles saying American instead. It's a way to keep the original look of the livery more intact, while also keeping American on the side of the fuselage. Just an idea.
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jetlanta
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:38 am

The longer these things are around, the less certain I am that these bastardized things honor the heritage of the ancestor carriers. It just looks tacky to mix the brands. Half the charm of this HP livery was the billboard titles. This things looks silly.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:41 am

Quoting TW870 (Reply 5):

Why does it have American titles at all?

By law, if they are doing business as AA, it has to say AA on the side of the plane. Right before the merger, NW aircraft in DL colors had "operated by Northwest Airlines" by the door.
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hufftheweevil
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:56 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
By law, if they are doing business as AA, it has to say AA on the side of the plane.

But, to clarify, it is not required that the the American Airlines name be so large. It simply has to be big enough to be read when the aircraft is on the ground....by a person on the ground.
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PDX88
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:16 am

For crying out loud. It's impossible to make anyone on these forums happy.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:24 am

Please, PLEASE AA make the titles billboard!

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 20):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):

I hope thy use the livery they had before the AA merger

Sharp livery, but not as iconic as the "Red Stripe."

I love the red stripe livery and agree it is iconic, but TWs last livery is just too sharp to not go with, and also its everyone's last memories of TW. But if they go with the last livery, I hope they don't put AA titles and keep the T-R-A-N-S W-O-R-L-D titles. It just wouldnt look right with AA on it.

And I agree it should be on a 737. Ive always wanted to see any TW scheme, ESP cially the last one, on a modern Boeing jet.

When is the TW jet supposed to roll out? Is it being painted?
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jetpixx
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:00 am

Any chance we get to see an Ozark retro jet? I mean, I know it might be a bit of a stretch...but they were TWA's history, and in turn it is AA's history. I would LOVE to see it...although, I am sure, it isn't likely.
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TWA772LR
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:06 am

Quoting jetpixx (Reply 33):
Any chance we get to see an Ozark retro jet? I

It would be cool, but I think we have a better chance of seeing a RenoAir jet.
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warden145
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:39 am

Quoting jetpixx (Reply 33):
Any chance we get to see an Ozark retro jet? I mean, I know it might be a bit of a stretch...but they were TWA's history, and in turn it is AA's history. I would LOVE to see it...although, I am sure, it isn't likely.

I recall reading on here that the logic Doug Parker was using was that any airline that was directly purchased by US (and now AA) gets a retro livery; however, an airline that was purchased by one of the airlines that US/AA later purchased wouldn't. If that's right, since TWA bought Ozark, Ozark won't be considered.

I know it won't happen, but I would love to see them do a TWA retro livery on a wide-body, given TWA's history of international service...

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 34):
It would be cool, but I think we have a better chance of seeing a RenoAir jet.

Per the link in the original post, a QQ retrojet will be introduced sooner or later. It'll be interesting seeing the Reno Air tail on a conventional-tail 737 (article says they're going to use a 737-800 for the TWA, Reno Air, and AirCal liveries), since (other than some regional Jetstreams) their entire fleet was T-tail MD-8X's.

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 31):
For crying out loud. It's impossible to make anyone on these forums happy.

   Agreed completely...

BTW, happy to hear that the red stripe livery will be used for the TWA heritage plane...that's one of my favorite liveries of any airline. The last livery wasn't there long enough to really get set in peoples' minds IMHO...
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CO777DAL
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:05 am

I like it. It looks like HP and I like that the AA titles are not too big. Nice to see US and AA do these. I can't wait to see the TWA one.

Now if only United would do a heritage Continental livery...   

Edit... Whoopies...come to think of it the entire UA fleet is heritage CO.

I'm glad AA will have on old AA and old US livery plane which I think both look better than the current AA livery. I really can 't wait to see TWA livery grace the skies again!

[Edited 2014-09-02 01:09:56]
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Jamake1
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:41 am

In commemoration of the AA/US merger, I would love to see retro jets painted in Trans-Caribbean, Air Cal, Reno Air, and TWA liveries...
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malaysia
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:17 am

Quoting PDX88 (Reply 31):
For crying out loud. It's impossible to make anyone on these forums happy.

yes it is... never will be happy unless they had chosen to go back to TWA as company name.
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N1120A
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:32 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):
Quoting Raventech (Reply 1):
Hopefully that's a temporary sticker and at next major overhaul they scale it to proper size.



The titles are far too small.

Agreed. They need to scale it.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 4):
Quoting N766UA (Reply 3):

Why wouldn't they just make it billboard, like the rest of the fleet? America West's titles were billboard, it'd fit right in.

Bonus points if it was in the same typeface as the original liveries!

Yep. They need to go with the same font. It would look really sharp that way.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 17):
Quoting warden145 (Reply 16):

It's going to be the red stripe livery I believe.

Good. While the last TWA livery was sharp, the red stripe is iconic.
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:15 pm

Maybe the heritage schemes would look better if the American titles were in the same colors as the retro liveries.

And again I'll put it out there: Mohawk, Lake Central, Empire and Ozark should get retro-jets as well!
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jfklganyc
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:23 pm

I like the last livery of TWA but it is a livery of a dying airline.

The iconic red/white "Tylenol" livery is what people think of when they think TWA.

It is appropriate for that to be used.
 
richiemo
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:01 pm

Good to know they'll also do a TWA version. I'm guessing then that the Nevada and Arizona liveries of the current Cactus A319s will go away. That's unfortunate, cause I thought those were some of the best novelty liveries in the industry. And it's too bad AA didn't do the Amer West heritage in the original livery, which was one of the most unique in the industry.
 
trnswrld
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:45 pm

Awesome, I really like these retrojets they are doing. Cant wait to see a TWA twin stripe regardless of what aircraft its going to be applied to (obviously 738 is whats been said).
Does anyone know when we can expect to see the TWA jet? A linked article said by next year, but does that mean like next year in a couple months, or 2016 next year?
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 25):
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 17):It's going to be the red stripe livery I believe.

I thought it was going to be double red?

That's what I meant. I gotta get the names down better.  
Quoting ckfred (Reply 23):
That said, I assume that there will be at least 1 jet in a US livery

Indeed, one a320 will stay in the US Airways scheme (I assume the current livery).

Quoting ckfred (Reply 23):
Will there be any AA retro jets?

One 737-800 will stay in the bare metal scheme.

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 25):
the airlines that went into USAirways will remain on the A320s

Quick correction; the retros and other special liveries are on a319s  
Quoting richiemo (Reply 42):
I'm guessing then that the Nevada and Arizona liveries of the current Cactus A319s will go away

Why do you say that? I get that possibly the Nevada one will go away, seeing as there is no longer a hub there, but there have been no outward signs (other than people's predictions on here) that the PHX hub is going anywhere.
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:35 pm

Quoting etops1 (Reply 26):
AA will also keep a LAA 737-800 in the bear metal scheme and a LUS A319 in the current US livery .

This I don't agree with. Due to the fact that they are currently phasing both of them out, it seems like when someone sees it they'll be more like "oh look they missed one" rather than "oh look a retro livery". There needs to be a time period for a new brand to set in before they hit you with the one they just got rid of.
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RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:59 pm

Quoting warden145 (Reply 35):
I recall reading on here that the logic Doug Parker was using was that any airline that was directly purchased by US (and now AA) gets a retro livery; however, an airline that was purchased by one of the airlines that US/AA later purchased wouldn't. If that's right, since TWA bought Ozark, Ozark won't be considered.

Yet Trans Caribbean (purchased by AA in 1971) doesn't qualify. MInd you, there should maybe also be an American Overseas Airlines heritage plane too!

Also, as USAir was born in 1979 when Allegheny Airlines renamed itself, I don't get why there isn't representation of Mohawk (purchased 1972) and Lake Central (purchased 1968) given that they were purchased by the same airline that also purchased Piedmont and PSA (Just it had renamed by the time it purchased the latter two).
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Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:08 pm

I think a USAir 1980s livery would be cool. Trump Shuttle.  
 
warden145
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:36 am

RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 46):
MInd you, there should maybe also be an American Overseas Airlines heritage plane too!

I'm guessing there's no way that would happen, but that would be COOL!!! 
Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 46):
Also, as USAir was born in 1979 when Allegheny Airlines renamed itself, I don't get why there isn't representation of Mohawk (purchased 1972) and Lake Central (purchased 1968) given that they were purchased by the same airline that also purchased Piedmont and PSA (Just it had renamed by the time it purchased the latter two).

I agree with you there, but unfortunately I'm not the one calling the shots   This is pure speculation on my part, but maybe they only want to do "recent" purchases to honor employees who are still with the companies who started out with the purchased airlines (TWA/Reno Air/PSA/AirCal/etc), whereas they assume that anyone who started out with Mohawk or Lake Central has retired by now? Like I said, pure speculation; I have no idea what's going on in Doug Parker's mind...

Quoting Fraspotter (Reply 45):
Due to the fact that they are currently phasing both of them out, it seems like when someone sees it they'll be more like "oh look they missed one" rather than "oh look a retro livery". There needs to be a time period for a new brand to set in before they hit you with the one they just got rid of.

That makes sense...it's cheaper to just not repaint a 737, but doing another Astrojet livery instead would be nice to see 
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IFlyTWA
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:29 pm

RE: HP...err, I Mean AA Debuts Heritage Jets

Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:16 pm

Looks nice.

Bring on Trans World Airlines!!!! I hope it's on a 737.
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