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lesfalls
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SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:16 am

SAS just started service to Houston! What are the load factors for this route?
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IAHflyer97
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting lesfalls (Thread starter):

I don't have any numbers, but I can say that it's too early to get a decent look at the performance of the route. Give it about 6 months of service and we should be able to see it then.
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Tdan
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:27 am

It will not be a high LF route given that it is all business class and DOW demand variances. That said, the BELF is likely to be in the low 50s. The route will be an absolute winner...question is how good of a rate SAS got from Privatair to operate it.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:30 am

Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 1):
I don't have any numbers, but I can say that it's too early to get a decent look at the performance of the route. Give it about 6 months of service and we should be able to see it then.

  

Personally, I don't think this a good route to draw conclusions on based on load factors, because SAS isn't really intending to attract leisure flyers with plane-filling fares. It's a niche service for the a certain type of high-value client.
 
Planeflyer
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:43 am

Just about anything to Houston will work these days.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:08 am

Quoting AA94 (Reply 3):
Personally, I don't think this a good route to draw conclusions on based on load factors, because SAS isn't really intending to attract leisure flyers with plane-filling fares. It's a niche service for the a certain type of high-value client.

These flights consistently price ~ $4,100 o/w for this flight.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:40 am

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 5):
These flights consistently price ~ $4,100 o/w for this flight.

...and that's what scared me away.
But then, I'm not the target demographic.

I will say, however, that without a lie-flat seat, they're ignoring any group of biz travelers other than the exacting slice of people who want to fly from IAH to SVG nonstop, above all else. Which is fine. But if I were in the market for anything other than that exact route, I'd take UA (gasp) or one of the other flat-bed offerings.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:31 am

Easy to find tickets for € 1 824 / one way (about USD 2 600) I checked several dates in October.

It war reported in Nordic forums that the flights were faily well booked for the first week at least. 30-34 passengers seems OK in a plane configured with 44 Business Seats.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:33 am

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 7):
Easy to find tickets for € 1 824 / one way (about USD 2 600) I checked several dates in October.

Booking from your end, yes; in my handful of attempts at bookings from the USA side, not so cheap.
 
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newbief1yer
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:43 am

Looks a bit too cramped for a 10+ hour flight

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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:07 am

Quoting newbief1yer (Reply 9):

Looks a bit too cramped for a 10+ hour flight

Are you serious? How much more room do you want on a J class flight?

Look at BA Club World, it is 8 abreast. I flew BA LCY-JFK on the A318, a similar set up and there was more than enough room.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:12 am

I wonder when the new Scottish flag carrier will start ABZ-IAH?   

I wonder when the new FIS facility gets done at HOU if SK will switch? Or are all the oil companies near IAH?
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Planeflyer
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:37 am

Quoting bjorn14

Yes many oil companies plus huge petrochemical facilities that will require many imported engineers. Look at the price of WTI vs Brent to get an idea of what is going on in Texas.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:47 am

Quoting newbief1yer (Reply 9):
Looks a bit too cramped for a 10+ hour flight

I've been on upper decks of 747's that are more cramped than that for 14 hour flights. It's perfectly fine. Don't be fooled. A.net seems to have developed some sort of phobia for anything Boeing or not wide body.  
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yellowtail
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:21 pm

One has to wonder if an all J IAH-GIG could work too? LATAM has a few spare 319s these days.

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 4):

Just about anything to Houston will work these days.

Tell that to B6 
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Planeflyer
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:55 pm

Well I did say just about.

Not familar w B6 and Houston. What happened?
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 11):
I wonder when the new FIS facility gets done at HOU if SK will switch? Or are all the oil companies near IAH?

Now that is am interesting thought. Suffice it to say, there have been no European flights from HOU, when IAH went into operations in'69'. That said, I strongly doubt it, but who knows, stranger things have happened.
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lesfalls
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:45 pm

But why is it only J class even if alot of the people flying with them woul prefer paying economy?
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Tdan
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 16):

Now that is am interesting thought. Suffice it to say, there have been no European flights from HOU, when IAH went into operations in'69'. That said, I strongly doubt it, but who knows, stranger things have happened.

Thomas - you know Houston...no one thinks of Hobby unless they are flying Southwest! Plus all of the wealthy oil&gas areas are north and west of the city favoring IAH. Lastly, Star connectivity is at IAH, not HOU
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 18):

I work in the industry and visit Houston 3 or 4 times a year. All of my 20+ clients are based in the southwest thus far closer to Hobby.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting newbief1yer (Reply 9):
Looks a bit too cramped for a 10+ hour flight

I'd hardly call 44 seats on a 135-passenger aircraft "cramped." I do complain that they're not lie-flats, but I wouldn't say cramped!

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 17):
But why is it only J class even if alot of the people flying with them woul prefer paying economy?

Because the people flying this route would NOT prefer economy; they're business travelers flying on the company's dime, most of which are guaranteed business class flights anyhow.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:18 pm

Being a travel provider, and having NET fares on Star Alliance, I get that OW seat for $2700 OW plux tx in the "Z" class bucket.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:44 pm

Interestingly, KL is cancelling its plans to add a 10th weekly service from IAH to AMS, wonder if that has anything to do with the impact of SK...
 
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lesfalls
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:49 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 22):
wonder if that has anything to do with the impact of SK...

You have a point there because KLM has a big presence in Norway.
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SFORunner
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 4):
Just about anything to Houston will work these days.

Except AKL   
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 23):
Quoting SFORunner (Reply 24):
Except AKL  

plus CDG, and an extra daily flight to NRT, both on UA  
 
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lesfalls
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 4):
Just about anything to Houston will work these days.

why?
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:52 pm

I tend to get about 5000-5500 USD round trip when I try this starting from IAH. I always figured 5000 for round trip J is fairly standard for a TATL flight. I hope it works out for them. I do not think the plane is cramped, but I would much rather do this hop on a widebody.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 15):
Not familar w B6 and Houston. What happened?

B6 have struggled badly in houston. Flight are still there and probably exist to "add value to the network"...but they have not been able to expand.

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 16):
Now that is am interesting thought. Suffice it to say, there have been no European flights from HOU, when IAH went into operations in'69'. That said, I strongly doubt it, but who knows, stranger things have happened.

FIS would be much faster at HOU. No 380s and TK to stand in line behind! Ugh, what a mess IAH FIS has become in the afternoons.....starting to get like MIA and that is not a good thing.
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Planeflyer
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:05 pm

The short answer is the huge advances in fracking which is allowing economic extraction of oil at high 60's and gas @ $3.2. This in turn is driving a huge buildout of petrochemical facilities. Engineers and vendors are flooding into Houston and Texas.
 
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 28):
FIS would be much faster at HOU. No 380s and TK to stand in line behind! Ugh, what a mess IAH FIS has become in the afternoons.....starting to get like MIA and that is not a good thing.

You got that right.

Star connections are good, but this flight is targeted to a specific demographic , oil city to oil city. HOU is Mich closer to downtown than IAH. But, since 45 is a parking lot around the clock, it is faster to get to downtown from IAH via 59.

But since both carriers are Star buddies, that extra traffic is gravy, thus IAH. And would a BBJ be able to fly TATL from Hobby's shorter runways?
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drerx7
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:55 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 30):
But, since 45 is a parking lot around the clock, it is faster to get to downtown from IAH via 59.

Can't agree with that one. I work at 45 and 610...and live Downtown. 59 is a mess...Hardy Toll Road is better of course but its still longer than from HOU.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 28):
Ugh, what a mess IAH FIS has become in the afternoons.....starting to get like MIA and that is not a good thing.

Yep, clearing FIS in a quick and timely manner will resemble other airports and no doubt will get only worse, one of the big downsides to all of this recent int'l growth.
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TWA772LR
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:59 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 31):
Can't agree with that one. I work at 45 and 610...and live Downtown. 59 is a mess...

You must have been in traffic while you were typing that.  

Jokes aside, 59 on the south side of downtown is pretty bad. I go to a hookah bar on Fountainview and it always gets bad right after the GRB and I drive from Humble. But from Minute Maid and north, it is pretty good. Just evening rush hour is bad.
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yellowtail
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 30):
And would a BBJ be able to fly TATL from Hobby's shorter runways?

KLM used to get 74s off the ground to AMS at HOU before IAH was around. Don't think they have shortened the runway any.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 34):
KLM used to get 74s off the ground to AMS at HOU before IAH was around.

It was DC-8s and with a stop in Montreal(?) I believe.
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Type-Rated
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:49 am

IAH opened in 69' and I don't think any airline had 747 service before 1970.
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thomasphoto60
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 34):
KLM used to get 74s off the ground to AMS at HOU before IAH was around. Don't think they have shortened the runway any.

I am guessing you meant DC-8s. KLM was using '8s' at IAH as late as the mid-70s


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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:55 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 28):

B6 have struggled badly in houston. Flight are still there and probably exist to "add value to the network"...but they have not been able to expand.

From everything I have heard they were doing great at JFK. The BOS expansion hurt them.
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:00 am

SAS MAY CONSIDER MOVING THE FLIGTHS FROM STAVANGER TO COPENHAGEN IN JANUARY 2015:


Danish travelsite Check-in.dk are reporting very low load factors for these flights. In the past 2 weeks, load factor has only been 20% on average.

SAS has told the Norwegian Oil Industry to "use it or lose it", as they were the ones really pushing for this service.


Link (sorry in Danish only):

http://www.check-in.dk/sas-truer-med...-houston-rute-til-cph#.VBbGjEuKCHs
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IAHflyer97
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:26 am

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 39):

First off, it hasn't even been a month. You can't tell if a route is bad in a couple weeks.

Two, January is already fairly close. Then you have to announce it at least three months in advance. So they're saying the route could be switched after about a month a half to two months of service?

Three, I doubt anyone expected the flight to be stuffed to the maximum capacity. 20 people get on the plane and they're looking at a decent profit from the flight.

Now because I can't read Danish, I assume the potential flight to CPH would also be on the Privat 73W? Or would SK put a wide body into the route?
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arn777
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:50 pm

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 39):

And SAS retracts to the rumors instantly and says the article is wrong, one-sided and that this has come up because Danish interests and primarily AP Møller wants the route to start in CPH instead serving the Danish industry. It is humorous even compare the Danish and Norwegian offshore and subsea industry...

Article in Norwegian only: http://www.aftenbladet.no/energi/olj...tting-av-Houston-rute-3509035.html

Please keep in mind that the source for this "rumor" is Check In, a media site which is highly bias and not known for their investigating journalism..:D
 
Someone83
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:08 pm

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 39):
Danish travelsite Check-in.dk are reporting very low load factors for these flights. In the past 2 weeks, load factor has only been 20% on average.

The article is wrong, and is full of propagande from CPH after the Danes still are grumpy the route was started from SVG and not CPH. Checkin.dk writes 2-3 a week about the route always saying of bad it is

Yes, their has been flight woth a LF as low as 20%, but there has as well been full flight

Quoting CPHFF (Reply 39):
SAS has told the Norwegian Oil Industry to "use it or lose it", as they were the ones really pushing for this service

Off course, that goes withouth saying. A route without enough passengers will eventually stop
 
SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:15 pm

Quoting arn777 (Reply 41):
Please keep in mind that the source for this "rumor" is Check In, a media site which is highly bias and not known for their investigating journalism..:D

Another example of the aggressive Danish travel and tourism industry outraged that CPH isn't the centre of the entire universe. Remember that CPH would completely fail in the vast majority of its long haul endeavours were it not for connecting traffic from the rest of Scandinavia.

Personally I am all for the redistribution of SAS long haul flights so that they better the serve the Scandinavian market by avoiding that everyone flies through CPH, so I am glad that SK saw the merit in a direct flight from SVG to IAH. It always takes time for a route to bed in and I hope it will be a huge success in the long run.
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EBGflyer
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 43):
Another example of the aggressive Danish travel and tourism industry outraged that CPH isn't the centre of the entire universe. Remember that CPH would completely fail in the vast majority of its long haul endeavours were it not for connecting traffic from the rest of Scandinavia.

Personally I am all for the redistribution of SAS long haul flights so that they better the serve the Scandinavian market by avoiding that everyone flies through CPH, so I am glad that SK saw the merit in a direct flight from SVG to IAH. It always takes time for a route to bed in and I hope it will be a huge success in the long run.

As a Dane, I welcome the route out of SVG, but I think it's silly with the speculation, including the doubtful articles from check-in. Any serious news media would have a second source to back up their story. Other than that, I think we should wait and see and let numbers and time speak for itself. I do hope the route will be a success, and if it is, it just means more money to start other routes. Be positive people  
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:34 pm

Quoting arn777 (Reply 41):
It is humorous even compare the Danish and Norwegian offshore and subsea industry...

Only because our minister was drunk when he gave the Norwegians all that underground   

(yes yes, I know it isn't true, but a good rumour is hard to kill off   )
 
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yellowtail
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:36 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 43):
Personally I am all for the redistribution of SAS long haul flights so that they better the serve the Scandinavian market by avoiding that everyone flies through CPH, so I am glad that SK saw the merit in a direct flight from SVG to IAH. It always takes time for a route to bed in and I hope it will be a huge success in the long run.

If SQ had made a judgement about IAH after the first 6 months...SQ would no longer be serving IAH.

Incidentally is SK carrying any cargo on this flight?
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SKAirbus
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 46):
Incidentally is SK carrying any cargo on this flight?

Well considering it is a 737-700 with just 44 seats, there ought to be room for some cargo. Then again, doesn't the BBJ use room in the cargo hold for extra fuel tanks?
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AA737-823
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 47):
Well considering it is a 737-700 with just 44 seats, there ought to be room for some cargo. Then again, doesn't the BBJ use room in the cargo hold for extra fuel tanks?

There are two additional fuel tanks in the aft cargo compartment.
With that fuel weight, I'm not sure how much cargo they could carry.
Granted, if the planes are going out empty.........
 
Viscount724
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RE: SAS Load Factor To Houston

Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting thomasphoto60 (Reply 37):
Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 34):
KLM used to get 74s off the ground to AMS at HOU before IAH was around. Don't think they have shortened the runway any.


I am guessing you meant DC-8s. KLM was using '8s' at IAH as late as the mid-70s

KL's May 1971 timetable shows the 747 replacing the DC-8 on 3 of KL's 4 weekly AMS-YUL-IAH-MEX flights effectie September 13, 1971 (with a note that 747 service to MEX was subject to government approval). One weekly flight on the same route remained a DC-8-63. There was also a once-weekly all-Y DC-8 (probably a DC-8-50 Combi) operating AMS-YUL-IAH.

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