Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:20 am

Etihad recently announced LHR-AUH-SYD direct (one-stop) service.
Is this something new in the industry? I don't remember any airline marketing a direct flight from a destination to a third destination via their hub.
Is it something other airlines might be looking into? Like LH DEL-FRA-JFK or CX SFO-HKG-BOM or BA JNB-LHR-YYZ?
Is it something that can be feasibly done or would it be a headache for the airline in terms of logistics 9aircraft, luggage, etc)?
Would this give them an advantage over their competitors? Or it wouldn't be much of a difference between current connecting flights?
Thanks
 
pjc747
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:50 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:30 am

Its nothing new, especially when there is no nonstop LHR-SYD. this used to be more common with shorter-range planes. Pan Am kept a hub in Germany for this purpose, as did Delta, and Northwest in Tokyo.
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:37 am

Quoting pjc747 (Reply 1):
Its nothing new, especially when there is no nonstop LHR-SYD

But that's operated by QF and BA, both hubbed at the end of the segment. My question was about direct flights operated by airlines hubbed in the middle, like EY LHR-AUH(hub)-SYD.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19300
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:45 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Thread starter):
Etihad recently announced LHR-AUH-SYD direct (one-stop) service.

Are you saying this is a single flight number using the same plane for both legs and that pax don't have to get off in Abu Dhabi?

Otherwise, how is it different to flying LHR-SYD via SIN on SQ or via HKG on CX?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7357
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:45 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't some of SQs LHR-SIN-SYD operate same flight number service the whole way?
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3025
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:46 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 2):
But that's operated by QF and BA, both hubbed at the end of the segment. My question was about direct flights operated by airlines hub bed in the middle, like EY LHR-AUH(hub)-SYD.

The question is do airlines use SAME flight number and yes it happens .

Some US carriers do this through change gauge midway.

Equally the ME3 have for a number of years operated same plane service UK- GCC- AUS however with a changed flight number.

In the case of Etihad the second is actually what happens.
IE same plane differing flight numbers

And its been going on since the dawn of aviation.

Imperial/Qantas operated these routes in just that fashion in the 1930s !
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:11 am

My apologies. After reading a few articles, it seems those flights will be distinct LHR AUH and AUH SYD flights.
I read an article that was misleading, mentioning the a380 will be operated LHR to SYD via AUH, but these will indeed be two distinct a380 flights with different flight numbers.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2738
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:54 pm

I believe BA009 operated with the same flight number all the way LHR-BKK-SYD, using the same aircraft. That was back in the 90s, so it's hardly something new.
Signature. You just read one.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1986
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:03 pm

Boiled down, this really is just marketing on the part of EY to emphasise their LHR-SYD offering. In reality there is nothing new here.
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 569
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:41 pm

DL ran JFK-CDG-BOM for a while. Now it's JFK-AMS-BOM (but it says change planes on the itinerary).
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6607
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:30 am

This is routine for US airlines. Many international flights have a domestic leg as well, often with a change of gauge but retaining the same flight number. It's usually marketing-driven, often to better compete in search results with a nonstop competitor.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting pjc747 (Reply 1):
Its nothing new, especially when there is no nonstop LHR-SYD. this used to be more common with shorter-range planes. Pan Am kept a hub in Germany for this purpose, as did Delta, and Northwest in Tokyo.
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 5):
Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 2):
But that's operated by QF and BA, both hubbed at the end of the segment. My question was about direct flights operated by airlines hub bed in the middle, like EY LHR-AUH(hub)-SYD.

The question is do airlines use SAME flight number and yes it happens .

Please give some examples of that type of 6th freedom operation.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 9):
DL ran JFK-CDG-BOM for a while. Now it's JFK-AMS-BOM (but it says change planes on the itinerary).
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 10):
This is routine for US airlines. Many international flights have a domestic leg as well, often with a change of gauge but retaining the same flight number. It's usually marketing-driven, often to better compete in search results with a nonstop competitor

No it's not routine when it involves 6th freedom services. All of the examples where it's done or has been done above are 3rd/4th freedom where the carrier has traffic rights under a bilateral from origin to final diestination, e.g. DL JFK-AMS-BOM, or Pan Am JFK-FRA-XXX. And of course they do whatever they want for tag-on domestic sectors.

It's extremely rare, and almost always not permitted, for a 6th freedom carrier, in this case EY, to be able to operate a through service with a single flight number between two foreign countries via their own country.

Do the UK-Australia and UK-UAE bilaterals really permit EY to do that? If so it's very unusual.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8850
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:38 am

I don't think a single response to the OP understands the question. Yes plenty of airlines have flights with en route stops and traffic rights on both legs (sigh). Let me give an example of what the OP is asking for.

Aeroflot operate flights from London to Tokyo via Moscow with one flight number, SU 262, all the way through. Today it changes type in SVO but used to be operated all with one plane, Ilyushin Il-62 (but originally Tupolev Tu-114).
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:43 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 12):
Aeroflot operate flights from London to Tokyo via Moscow with one flight number, SU 262, all the way through. Today it changes type in SVO but used to be operated all with one plane, Ilyushin Il-62 (but originally Tupolev Tu-114).

That's one of the rare exceptions. If memory correct it was.a tradeoff for permitting BA (then BOAC) to operate via the much shorter Trans-Siberian route in the 1970s when they began LHR-SVO-HND service with 707s.
 
directorguy
Posts: 1405
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:58 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:45 am

Historically some airlines have operated direct (but not nonstop) air services where the airline hub is only an intermediate stop. An obscure example that I came across recently was ET operating Nairobi to Frankfurt via Addis Ababa (and maybe via another stop en route). Not sure if it was a through flight number but may have been.
It is much more common for an airline to offer seamless connections that involve a transit at the airline hub but the same plane is used for all sectors. Gulf Air A340s doing the Singapore-Sydney run would connect to Beirut some days to offer Sydney-Beirut pax a seamless transit as possible.
 
TW870
Posts: 1249
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 12):
I don't think a single response to the OP understands the question. Yes plenty of airlines have flights with en route stops and traffic rights on both legs (sigh). Let me give an example of what the OP is asking for.

I think I understand your clarification, but I guess I don't understand why it would matter in operational terms. Delta, for example could operate a "through" service from NRT-GRU through DTW with a single flight number. But all through pax would still have to clear customs in Detroit regardless of the flight number, which would effectively turn the hub transit into a connection. I see what you mean in that there are very few examples of an international flight number that transits a core hub, but I guess I just don't understand what difference it would make to the operation (the OP asked about operational impact).
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:15 am

Quoting TW870 (Reply 15):
Delta, for example could operate a "through" service from NRT-GRU through DTW with a single flight number. But all through pax would still have to clear customs in Detroit regardless of the flight number, which would effectively turn the hub transit into a connection. I see what you mean in that there are very few examples of an international flight number that transits a core hub, but I guess I just don't understand what difference it would make to the operation (the OP asked about operational impact).

In that example I don't believe DL could in fact operate a through flight NRT-DTW-GRU with a single flight numbe. That would imply that they have traffic rights Japan-Brazil under that bilateral which they do not. All they can do is combine their two 3rd/4th freedom routes to/from the US and sell it as a connecting service with different flight numbers.

However, on your other point, where a through flight number is permitted, it still gives the carrier an advantage as a "direct" flight with a single flight number will have higher display priority than a connection in GDS displays and thus is more likely to be booked.

The fact that it's not done is a good indication that it's not legally permitted with very rare exceptions.

I suppose another exception now, although nobody's doing it, would be in an Open Skies market like U.S.-EU or Canada-EU where carriers have unlimited 5th freedom rights within and between all EU countries. So if LH, for example, wanted to operate ATH-FRA-LAX with a single aircraft (or change of gauge) and the same flight number all the way, it would be permitted. They could even do the same ATH-LHR-LAX. Or UA could operate FRA-ORD-YVR with the same flight number if they wanted since they also have unrestricted 5th freedom rights at both ends of the route.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:24 am

A new example which is no longer in service:

Copa Airlines 650: Bogota - Panama City - San Jose - Guatemala City
Valid until 2013 approximately.


Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5092
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:43 am

MSA (Malaysia Singapore Airlines) used to do this between Europe and Australia and it was in accordance with the then bi-lateral. SQ used to do so in its early days, I'm not sure about MH. I suspect that both could do it today if they wanted to.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Topic Author
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:46 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 12):
I don't think a single response to the OP understands the question. Yes plenty of airlines have flights with en route stops and traffic rights on both legs (sigh). Let me give an example of what the OP is asking for.

Aeroflot operate flights from London to Tokyo via Moscow with one flight number, SU 262, all the way through. Today it changes type in SVO but used to be operated all with one plane, Ilyushin Il-62 (but originally Tupolev Tu-114).

Thanks cadarjet! You made the day! That was exactly what I was asking about.

Quoting TW870 (Reply 15):
I think I understand your clarification, but I guess I don't understand why it would matter in operational terms.

Yes that was the question really. What advantages (if any) would bring?
Let's say, as an example, a hypothetical LH DEL FRA JFK flight. They are competing with the ME3 on the india to JFK routes.

For instance, could such a direct (one-stop) service give them a competitive advantage? For instance, optimized transfer time? (AUH is not a walk in the park to transfer at)&
Shorter transfer time? Maybe, depending on the legalities of the matter, Indian crew members on-board all the way to the final destination? I am not sure about India, but Chinese consumers appreciate having Chinese staff onboard. European and the ME3 airlines all have Chinese crew members on their flights to/from China.
These are just ideas, but could something like this make the product more competitive or appealing compared to a regular hub&spoke connection?
 
TW870
Posts: 1249
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
The fact that it's not done is a good indication that it's not legally permitted with very rare exceptions.

Absolutely - I think you would see it for obvious marketing reasons if it were legal.

The GDS information would be the only major difference, though, as with no transit lounges at U.S. airports, having a through flight number would not eliminate the hassle of having to clear customs and re-clear security before re-boarding the through aircraft.
 
dennys
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:15 am

Very intersting post .

This XXX HUB XXX did exist during the COLD WAR

AEROFLOT IL62

PAR MOW TYO
LON MOW TYO
FRA MOW TYO

As far as i remember this is the so called 7th Air Freedom right .
But this needs a special agreement .

If ME3 makes that the European carriers shall have a good deal of work to compete .
 
IADCA
Posts: 2194
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:24 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:48 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Thread starter):
Is this something new in the industry? I don't remember any airline marketing a direct flight from a destination to a third destination via their hub.

If you don't restrict it to being international on both sides of the hub (as you didn't explicitly do in the opening post), this is more common than you think. For example, I flew DL 151 DCA-ATL on an M88 last week. The full flight is DCA-ATL-LIM, all with the DL151 designator. Change of gauge to a 763 in ATL.

No idea why they do this, but one thought is that it has something to do with codeshares. DL has codeshares on other DCA-ATL flights (AF/KL for example), but not this one. I suspect that's because something - likely lack of traffic rights on the ATL-LIM sector - prevents codeshare partners from selling seats on this flight. In other words, it might be a sly way to keep alliance partners from taking seats on some of your most profitable spoke-to-hub flights.
 
jc2354
Posts: 609
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:30 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedoms_of_the_air

I know, I know, it's Wikipedia. But it does give a good description on traffic rights. Plenty of links, too.

I read through it, and I couldn't find any information/restrictions that flights had to change gauge or change flight numbers.
If not now, then when?
 
User avatar
Coal
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:14 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 4):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't some of SQs LHR-SIN-SYD operate same flight number service the whole way?

Wrong, SQ's flight numbers from LHR to SIN are:

SQ 305
SQ 317
SQ 319
SQ 321

And SQ's flights from SIN to SYD are:

SQ 211
SQ 221
SQ 231
SQ 241

You've been corrected   

Cheers
Coal
Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
User avatar
777Jet
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:29 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:00 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 7):
I believe BA009 operated with the same flight number all the way LHR-BKK-SYD, using the same aircraft. That was back in the 90s, so it's hardly something new.

I flew that route, BA9, back in 2004. The air-con broke down not long after departure from LHR. As it was the same bird all the way to SYD, you could imagine how 'hot' it got onboard, especially on the ground at DMK (BKK back then)... But BA9 is more of a HUB-XXX-XXX than a XXX-HUB-XXX route...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
dennys
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 11:19 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:36 am

Concerning SINGAPORE AL , i remember a TIME table of 1977 or so sel long Australia this way


SQ 501. LHR SIN B742

SQ 501 A SIN SYD B742
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5734
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:57 pm

When Ozark inaugurated STL-SAN flights it emphasized that flights originated and terminated in IND. There was even a write up and Indy newspaper how Ozark was bringing IND into the "big leagues" by choosing IND as the starting point for the route.

http://www.departedflights.com/OZSAN.html
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
airpearl
Posts: 859
Joined: Tue May 01, 2001 7:42 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:09 pm

Quoting dennys (Reply 26):
Concerning SINGAPORE AL , i remember a TIME table of 1977 or so sel long Australia this way


SQ 501. LHR SIN B742

SQ 501 A SIN SYD B742

I remember both SQ and MH had in the 1980s used very similar (but not identical) flight numbers for their SYD/MEL and LHR flights. For instance with MH, SYD-MEL-KUL was MH002A, and KUL-LHR MH002. The return LHR-KUL was MH001, and KUL-MEL-SYD MH001A. SQ's numbering was similar, with an A-suffix to its Australian flights. Interestingly at Australian airports, the departure boards would show MH002A as departing for LHR via MEL, KUL, KWI, FRA, even though strictly it was only KUL-bound. The same applied to SQ's flights.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:45 pm

Quoting airpearl (Reply 28):
Quoting dennys (Reply 26):
Concerning SINGAPORE AL , i remember a TIME table of 1977 or so sel long Australia this way


SQ 501. LHR SIN B742

SQ 501 A SIN SYD B742

I remember both SQ and MH had in the 1980s used very similar (but not identical) flight numbers for their SYD/MEL and LHR flights. For instance with MH, SYD-MEL-KUL was MH002A, and KUL-LHR MH002. The return LHR-KUL was MH001, and KUL-MEL-SYD MH001A. SQ's numbering was similar, with an A-suffix to its Australian flights. Interestingly at Australian airports, the departure boards would show MH002A as departing for LHR via MEL, KUL, KWI, FRA, even though strictly it was only KUL-bound. The same applied to SQ's flights.

Had the flight numbers been identical, they would not have been permitted as far as I know. They made them as close as possible but I don't believe they appeared in schedules and systems as a through flight.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:41 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 12):

Aeroflot operate flights from London to Tokyo via Moscow with one flight number, SU 262, all the way through. Today it changes type in SVO but used to be operated all with one plane, Ilyushin Il-62 (but originally Tupolev Tu-114).

That was a special tri-lateral agreement with Japan, the Soviet union and France, the UK etc. which permitted SU to operate with full traffic rights and a single flight number. The frequencies where limited as well, JL SU and BA or AF had usually 2 flights in each diection. IIRC the western carriers could not carry passengers between their origin and between TYO and MOW.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 19):
Let's say, as an example, a hypothetical LH DEL FRA JFK flight. They are competing with the ME3 on the india to JFK routes.

would not work for operational reasons. Outbound flight nos. are usually even and inbound flt nos are odd. In addition, LH has allocated blocks of flight numbers for destinations, North America is 400-499 for example.

Finally, QF ddoes not hub at the destination, they actually had a scissors hub at SIN and have that at DXB as well now, with the exception that they got sc..sorry, convinced by EK that they do most of the scissor flights as well..
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
User avatar
deltacto
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:37 pm

From Braniff's system timetable October 28, 1979:

BN 925 HKG-GUM-LAX-SCL (once per week)
BN 924 SCL-LAX-HNL-GUM-HKG (once per week)

http://www.departedflights.com/BN102879p30.html
http://www.departedflights.com/BN102879p70.html
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:10 pm

SAS used to have a few HUB-HUB-XXX routes, such as SK751 ARN-CPH-WAW. That's the flight that crashed in 1991.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
Akiestar
Posts: 970
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 6:51 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:52 pm

DL's Asia routes are an example of this. DL 172, for example, is actually MNL-NRT-JFK, and it appears that way on the FIDS at MNL, though I don't know if it involves changing aircraft at NRT (they say it does).
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5734
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting deltacto (Reply 31):


BN 925 HKG-GUM-LAX-SCL (once per week)
BN 924 SCL-LAX-HNL-GUM-HKG (once per week)

Where is the hub?
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
User avatar
deltacto
Posts: 479
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:49 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 34):
Where is the hub?

My apologies ... this does not answer the OP's question ... However, it is an example of a US carrier operating a single flight number that originates in one country, stops in the US, then goes on to a third country.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:54 pm

Quoting akiestar (Reply 33):
DL's Asia routes are an example of this. DL 172, for example, is actually MNL-NRT-JFK, and it appears that way on the FIDS at MNL, though I don't know if it involves changing aircraft at NRT (they say it does).

No, that's not an example of what the original poster is asking about. He or she is asking about a carrier operating a through flight with a single flight number via their own hub in their own country by combining two 6th freedom services. As already mentioned, that is only very rarely permitted. DL operating MNL-NRT-JFK is a 5th freedom tag-on operation, nothing to do with 6th freedom.

Quoting deltacto (Reply 31):
From Braniff's system timetable October 28, 1979:

BN 925 HKG-GUM-LAX-SCL (once per week)
BN 924 SCL-LAX-HNL-GUM-HKG (once per week)

I expect BN got away with that since Chile didn't care since they had no interests in the transpacific markets. Technically it was probably not permitted. Carriers sometimes do things they're not permitted to do until someone complains.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:52 pm

I may simply be hallucinating, but wasn't there a CO flight which had the same flight number from somewhere in Europe (like FRA), which flew to EWR and/or IAH, then down to South America? It was something like flight 72, back around in the days when the Peter Max threads existed.

I only mention it because something oddball about one of those flights sticks in my mind, and I'm not sure if it was that or not.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:13 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 37):
I may simply be hallucinating, but wasn't there a CO flight which had the same flight number from somewhere in Europe (like FRA), which flew to EWR and/or IAH, then down to South America? It was something like flight 72, back around in the days when the Peter Max threads existed.

Yes, I think it was FRA-IAH-EZE. I was always curious how CO got away with that. My guess is they just did it and waited for the Argentine authorities to find out and complain, and they probably never did.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: XXX-HUB-XXX Direct Flights

Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:07 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 38):
Yes, I think it was FRA-IAH-EZE.

There we go, so I wasn't hallucinating at all! ::whew:: Viscount to the rescue, once again.

With your assistance, I was able to find the routing and a thread about it from Dec/2005. CO51 operated FRA-EWR-IAH-EZE.

Here ya go, VCEflyboy, an XXX-HUB-HUB-XXX flight. Double the hub pleasure, double the hub fun:

CO IAH-EZE Inaugural Flight Tonight (by MyOthrCarsA777 Dec 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)
International Homo of Mystery

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos