VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

spud757 · Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:06 pm

So how does DL sell the different Y+ concept to ATL passengers, who are used to DL metal, and who are currently unfamiliar with VS? I'm assuming those used to booking and flying with DL, and their Y+ product, won't have the exposure to or understanding of the VS product. The price differential will be a shock if the product differential isn't made clear.

Prost · Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:53 am

I'm sure there will at least be a pop up screen explaining the VS planes have three distinct classes of services versus Delta's two. All American's aren't complete rools that can't comprehend differences to their European brethren

YVRLTN · Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:47 am

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 114):
YVR is a focus city at best for AC,

Hardly for a city the size of metro Vancouver, it is a hub with a lot of flights.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 114):
so they definitely have room for growth

Where to?

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 114):
Because of the size of DL, they can compete well with the costs against AC BA and even TS I would dare say

I dont think so, TS are very cheap. There is a cost to get to SEA too.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 114):
but they can win all sorts of other consumers who do not mind the short backtracking across the border.

Its 3 hours if you drive. You then have to pay to park + gas. If you fly on the new Connection flights, Im sure the price increases too. If you get the bus, that is no longer 'short' backtracking and is generally not too great an experience. Plus for Brits as I say you need the visa waiver. Not saying SEA-YVR wont work for DL in their own right, but doubtful to poach anything meaningful from YVR.

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 114):
I have been seeing a lot of people on the skytrain from YVR to the city with DL baggage tags from their Asian destinations via SEA,

Nothing to do with VS to LHR. AC seem to have good yields to Asia so probably not too bothered about losing penny pinchers. DL probably lose pax to AC via YVR too from the US.

Quoting Opethfan (Reply 148):
The western side of the YVR terminal building is domestic - international is in the middle and transborder on the east. What you saw was likely the new A-B connector project, a rebuilding of almost all the domestic concourses

No, new expansion to the west by the firehall. A guy working on the landfill on the site told me thats what was being built there anyway so he could be talking out of his butt.

vv701 · Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:25 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 131):
the 49% share DL has in VS would only entitle them to 49% of the net profit after tax,

No. It would only entitle them to 49 per cent of any declared dividend. Consider IAG. It has made a profit every year since it was formed. But it has never declared a dividend preferring to reinvest its profit. So its owners - its shareholders - have received zero percent of its net profit. But in the case of VS it is actually currently in the red. And I do not think that Little Red are exactly helping it towards making a profit. It is EI who are rubbing their hands there. This is because it is likely that they are making more profit on the deal than they expected because they are using less fuel than expected as the aircraft have pretty light loads if reports are to be believed.

smolt · Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:04 am

Todays Japanese news says that many Japanese fans are being dissapointed to the VS's announcement of cutting NRT.
I myself remember back to early 90s when VS started to fly to NRT with an very old 747-200 but in not so long after that
VS grew enough to fly mint 744s and then A346s.

By the way, Detroit is facing a severe financial matter but is there so big the demand of passenger seats from/to London?

RyanairGuru · Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:15 am

Quoting smolt (Reply 154):
Detroit is facing a severe financial matter but is there so big the demand of passenger seats from/to London?

It's a Delta hub. O&D could be zero and the plane would still be full.

anstar · Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:54 am

Quoting spud757 (Reply 150):
So how does DL sell the different Y+ concept to ATL passengers, who are used to DL metal, and who are currently unfamiliar with VS?

How do they outline the differences with AF and KL? I presume ti would be similar with VS would it not?

Quoting smolt (Reply 154):
By the way, Detroit is facing a severe financial matter but is there so big the demand of passenger seats from/to London?

There is probably a small amount of O&D, but DTW will be more about connecting passengers from LHR to the north and central USA.

1400mph · Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:46 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 156):
How do they outline the differences with AF and KL? I presume ti would be similar with VS would it not?

Is that the same thing considering the polarisation of the two at AMS and CDG ?

What happens with the chauffeur thing ?

hjulicher · Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:17 am

Quoting anstar (Reply 156):
There is probably a small amount of O&D, but DTW will be more about connecting passengers from LHR to the north and central USA.

What do you consider small? Detroit serves a catchment area of over 5 million people. That's all O&D traffic. LON just doesn't happen to be the primary destination for Detroiter's, that goes to Germany/via FRA.

ATL plays if not a larger role for connecting passengers than DTW, as I believe that ATL is about 30/70% (O&D/Connecting) where as DTW is more around 45/55%.

panamair · Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:10 am

Quoting spud757 (Reply 150):
So how does DL sell the different Y+ concept to ATL passengers, who are used to DL metal, and who are currently unfamiliar with VS? I'm assuming those used to booking and flying with DL, and their Y+ product, won't have the exposure to or understanding of the VS product. The price differential will be a shock if the product differential isn't made clear.

It's really not too big a deal DL and AF already differed on this before the VS deal; AF has a separate Y+ cabin/fare class just like VS, and DL actually sells the separate Premium Economy inventory if you book a flight on a DL-coded-AF-operated flight to CDG for example. DL could have done the same with VS today (e.g., on JFK-LHR) but for some reason (probably because VS doesn't have enough W inventory to split with DL), DL currently does not sell a Y+ fare on a VS-operated DL-coded flight to/from LHR. So the only way for a Delta passenger to fly VS Y+ today is to book Y+ with VS.

The same thing happens at AA/BA; BA has World Traveler Plus (separate cabin, fare class), but AA has a similar Y+ product as DL (not a separate fare class). Even sister companies AF and KL have different Y+ products (AF is similar to VS's separate cabin/fare class concept, while KL has Economy Comfort - in the same vein as DL and AA).

willd · Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:21 am

Quoting bahadir (Reply 147):
The title should read "DL is transferring more international flying to Virgin Group"

Not really seeing as VS is cutting a number of routes from its network (which will include job losses, for example the NRT crew base) some of which the carrier has operated since its infancy (NRT for example).

dtw2hyd · Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:07 pm

Quoting smolt (Reply 154):
By the way, Detroit is facing a severe financial matter but is there so big the demand of passenger seats from/to London?

I think it is worth to recap couple of things. DTW is owned and operated by Wayne Country and serves entire metro area of 5 Million. City of Detroit was never a major economic contributor to neither DTW nor Metro Detroit.

Also City of Detroit's financial troubles are behind. Prior to filing C9 it had $18 Billion debt, based on how judge rules total debt may be less than couple of billion dollars. That's the beauty of C9. Once City of Detroit emerges out of bankruptcy it will be in much better shape than all other cities holding the debt.

I don't know about load factors but DL is charging arm and leg for DTW-LHR. I checked several times Y round trip ranges between $1200-$2500. I recall 15 years back BA used to offer $499 round trip promotional fares.

VS flyers will enjoy ease of transfers, high end retail and fine dining at DTW McNamara Terminal.

jetblue1965 · Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:30 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 161):

I don't know about load factors but DL is charging arm and leg for DTW-LHR. I checked several times Y round trip ranges between $1200-$2500. I recall 15 years back BA used to offer $499 round trip promotional fares.

VS flyers will enjoy ease of transfers, high end retail and fine dining at DTW McNamara Terminal.

But since this is all JV'ed, the local DTW-LHR flyers won't be seeing any pricing relief anytime soon.

anstar · Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:44 pm

Quoting willd (Reply 160):
Not really seeing as VS is cutting a number of routes from its network (which will include job losses, for example the NRT crew base) some of which the carrier has operated since its infancy (NRT for example).

The Japanese crew (based @ LHR) have been offered jobs with mainline. The overall net is a positive as it is an overall increase in flying by around 500 flights next summer despite the reduction in destinations.

FlyCaledonian · Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:09 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 36):
Tokyo really surprises me, especially since UK was awarded daytime slots at Haneda that were to split with BA for a daily flight each, and VS had publicly said they would move over to HND along with further developing their ANA partnership.

I wonder if this will see BA switch the remaining LHR-NRT flight it has to HND, given that UK airlines have access to 14 weekly daylight slot pairs at HND?

Quoting OA412 (Reply 71):
Airlines don't cut break even or profitable routes.

Not true. BA cut LHR-SIN-MEL, which was a profitable route, because it saved 1.5 747s by dropping MEL and could deploy the aircraft more profitably elsewhere. (To India if I recall due to an improved UK-India bilateral).

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 74):
They can never gain enough slots at LHR to create a comprehensive route network so whats the point in spreading the slots they do have loosely around the Globe. By concentrating on North America with DL's domestic routes for further coverage they can at least claim to specialise in one area.

Exactly, if VS believes this is more profitable for them then they will deploy their limited vaulable assets (LHR slots) in the best possible way. The DL joint venture allows them to re-focus in the TATL market in a way they couldn't when they were essentially just operating LHR-USA with O&D at both ends (or at least limited feed at the LHR end).

Quoting OA412 (Reply 88):
QF would not have pulled SYD-SFO if it was profitable. Period. End of story.

Not true, as has been pointed out...

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 99):
They swapped the service from SFO to DFW to better connect in with AA's network:

Like BA at LHR, QF saw an opportunity to redeploy an asset (this time aircraft) more profitablt to operate through a different US port. Adding DFW and keeping SFO might have been an option, but QF was already drawing down the 744 fleet, plus it would have been too much capacity to have had SYD to SFO, LAX and DFW.

opethfan · Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting VCEflyboy (Reply 114):
YVR is a focus city at best for AC

Now, I'm, probably more critical of AC's YYZ-first focus than most others, but I can cede that YVR is AC's 2nd largest station, with crews and maintenance based there, as well as a number of routes that are not served from any other destination, and region feeder flights. It has domestic widebody service, too. It is, by all definitions, a hub. Hell, WS fit most of those points, too (I'm not sure if there's any MX at YVR, or if crews are based in YVR, but there are definitely a/c based there) with exclusive routes like SNA, feeder service from YYJ and Fort St. John (too lazy to find the code) and all of their codeshare partners that fly into YVR rather than YYC or even YYZ.

With that being said, it's no shock that VS want to return to their bread and butter routes, especially now that they have a strong partner on the other end and the slot restrictions at LHR remain. For as long as that's the case, it's better to not be too experimental.

VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

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RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

RE: VS Cuts Routes + Adds Routes

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